Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[meganoth]

9 hours ago, falloutcloud said:

I really enjoy RWG. I think it's one of the best parts of the game to be able to always have a new world to explore. However, I do wish that I could paint a map with where I want the desert, forest, wasteland, and snow biomes to be. I could plot where I want small, medium, large, and x-large cities. And to draw the roads on how I want them to connect. Right now the roads look a ton better than previous alphas but still do some crazy stuff that makes no sense. Like why do I have 2 cities close together but the road that connects them has to go all the way around the map first?

 

In longer games I tend to build roads, tunnels or bridges to connect places that are near but separated. An in-game function to build continuosly along a line while holding the mouse button would be beneficial for this

 

[beerfly]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

In longer games I tend to build roads, tunnels or bridges to connect places that are near but separated. An in-game function to build continuosly along a line while holding the mouse button would be beneficial for this

 

This is the most fantastic thing in this game. Building or manipulating ground is not up to just doing a horde base or something. Once a one realises that you can do a tunnel under you zombie neighbour`s house and the whole town is something else. 

 

We play in fully destructible world and it is one of the best parts in 7 days to die. LIke a vital organ that we can`t go further without. 

[Matt115]

15 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

 

faatal responds to people that tag him, he has been doing that for some time now.  He reads things that members tag him on, and most of the time, he responds to it.  It may not be the response you want, but he does read things brought to his attention.

I will thx 

15 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

No, you can't expect realism with THIS game. And you can list hundreds of other games where some parts have internal consistency or are realistic and others are not and it does mean sh** with THIS game.

Yes, but what you don't see is that this is not an accident, not a bug, not something that will be corrected because you tell them. You will find a pipe weapon in a military bunker and you will find it there in the release version as well. I can almost guarantee you that, as much as a random user on this forum can.

 

And this what i'm saying about bad design

 

15 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

I mean, did you protest to project zomboid that they changed from 2d to 3d? You could have told them that "Terraria didn't, Conan didn't, Ark didn't, Contagion didn't change from 2d to 3d. So how can you do that?". They would have given you the same answer that TFP would.

No. why? because.... devs pretty fast told they would in future do this into 3d but you know lack of money etc. 7DTD had describtion that suggest that they are going to be... serious at least for this years standards - most assets was looking literaly like taken from zombie panic! source. So - if something looks like cat, sounds like cats then it's a cat or horse? 

 

15 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Interesting. Which was the part where I did something similar to asking you "you know he won't read it?" in the part you quoted?

 

I undestood this from your comment

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

And this what i'm saying about bad design

 

It seems they disagree. This is similar to you encouraging a **successful** corn farmer to change to yucca farming while having never grown yucca yourself. 😉

 

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

 7DTD had describtion that suggest that they are going to be... serious at least for this years standards

 

You read what you wanted to read. I find nothing in the description that suggests any of that.

 

Check out https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/7daystodie/7-days-to-die-zombie-survival-game

There is not a single mention of the word "dark" in there, there is nothing at all talking about seriousness/darkness or humor at all. Meanwhile their company name is "Fun Pimps". I'd say 1:0 for me.

 

The steam page has the sentence "Set in a brutally unforgiving post-apocalyptic world..." that just means "difficult" to my ears, the "brutally" is embelishing the word "unforgiving" here. This is the only sentence that even remotely could be read in the way you are suggesting, if my interpretation of it were wrong.

 

If you disagree, please post where you found that description you are talking about.

 

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

most assets was looking literaly like taken from zombie panic! source. So - if something looks like cat, sounds like cats then it's a cat or horse? 

 

Most assets were bought from the Unity store and were placeholders. If something is unfinished then it might look like a cat but grows into a horse. So yes, it probably is a horse now.

 

It is even possible that TFP wanted a more serious game at first. But even if that were true, they were completely free to change their mind as they never promised a dark serious game.

 

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

I undestood this from your comment

 

What I said was that you can talk to the devs directly by making an initial post (not a reply to someone) in this dev diary and they might read it. But discussing something with me, even in this same thread, will likely be ignored by them. And my "mod" status is irrelevant for this. (Likely they already know your opinion anyway by now, so repeating it every time is probaby superfluous by now, you only get one "vote")

 

That they actually read some of this is proven by the fact that some time after you started posting in this forum suddenly a few skeletons and a news stand appeared in the game and I think one of the POI designers posted a picture of the newsstand in a reply to you.

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Matt115]

58 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

It seems they disagree. This is similar to you encouraging a **successful** corn farmer to change to yucca farming while having never grown yucca yourself. 😉

 

 

58 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

You read what you wanted to read. I find nothing in the description that suggests any of that.

 

Check out https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/7daystodie/7-days-to-die-zombie-survival-game

There is not a single mention of the word "dark" in there, there is nothing at all talking about seriousness/darkness or humor at all. Meanwhile their company name is "Fun Pimps". I'd say 1:0 for me.

 

The steam page has the sentence "Set in a brutally unforgiving post-apocalyptic world..." that just means "difficult" to my ears, the "brutally" is embelishing the word "unforgiving" here. This is the only sentence that even remotely could be read in the way you are suggesting, if my interpretation of it were wrong.

 

If you disagree, please post where you found that description you are talking about.

 

 

About steam page  and 7dtd : it's not first descibtion.  it was edited - during A21:    Improve – Increase your skills in 5 major disciplines with a multitude of perks under each attribute. Gain additional skills by reading over 100 books. 7 Days to Die is the only true survival RPG.

 

this mention LBL which is not descibtion from 2013 😕 

 

 

There is "survival horror" -  definition :

survival horror refers to a subgenre of survival video games that includes horror game elements.^[5][6][7] The player character is vulnerable and under-armed,^[8] which puts emphasis on puzzle-solving and evasion, rather than the player taking an offensive strategy.^[9] Games commonly challenge the player to manage their inventory^[10] and ration scarce resources such as ammunition.^[8][9] Another major theme throughout the genre is that of isolation. Typically, these games contain relatively few non-player characters and, as a result, frequently tell much of their story second-hand through the usage of journals, texts, or audio logs.^[11]

While many action games feature lone protagonists versus swarms of enemies in a suspenseful environment,^[12] survival horror games are distinct from otherwise horror-themed action games.^[13][14] They tend to de-emphasize combat in favor of challenges such as hiding or running from enemies and solving puzzles.^[12] Still, it is not unusual for survival horror games to draw upon elements from first-person shooters, or even role-playing games.^[5] According to IGN, "Survival horror is different from typical game genres in that it is not defined strictly by specific mechanics but subject matter, tone, pacing, and design philosophy."^[11]

 

so :  let's use games which was released before/during 7dtd release as examples: Resiedent evil, Clock tower, penumbra, cryostasis, rule of rose, silent hill, dino crysis. what is common thing for that games? Keep themself serious, dark and realistic ( by this in meaning that world of game is reflection of our world... elements - in cryostasis all "frozen ones" use Soviet weaponry suitable for this period of time. rule of rose clothes are suitable to this period, SH is in style of typical USA city - so in cryostasis there is no m16 , rule of rose character doesn't wear medieval clothes or in SH there is not post-soviet style buildings) 

 

is unforgiving suitable to this type of games as well : re is hard game, this same rest of them: which is part of survival horror - always lack of ammo, low number of medkits, force to avoid enemies etc. to create more horrific feeling

 

So: for me this good enough to consider this in that way - is No more room in hell 1 survival game (mod)? yes. Is zombie panic zombie " survival horror" yeah. is... fallout survivor horror? not realy. Is rage survival horror? not realy. Is stalker survival horror? nope. 

 

7dtd was looking on gameplay on screens on trailers like "surival horror" in open world. Not like rage or fallout 1 2 3. Just like classic "source " survival horror ( source because games/mods survival horrors had specific vibe as first alphas). Now 7dtd have more... "satire"/not serious style. Similiar situation to serious  Dead rising 1 and satire dead rising  4.

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

What I said was that you can talk to the devs directly by making an initial post (not a reply to someone) in this dev diary and they might read it. But discussing something with me, even in this same thread, will likely be ignored by them. And my "mod" status is irrelevant for this. (Likely they already know your opinion anyway by now, so repeating it every time is probaby superfluous by now, you only get one "vote")

 

That they actually read some of this is proven by the fact that some time after you started posting in this forum suddenly a few skeletons and a news stand appeared in the game and I think one of the POI designers posted a picture of the newsstand in a reply to you.

 

 

i will make Later longer post directly too Faatal 

 

 

[BFT2020]

18 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

There is "survival horror" -  definition :

survival horror refers to a subgenre of survival video games that includes horror game elements.^[5][6][7] The player character is vulnerable and under-armed,^[8] which puts emphasis on puzzle-solving and evasion, rather than the player taking an offensive strategy.^[9] Games commonly challenge the player to manage their inventory^[10] and ration scarce resources such as ammunition.^[8][9] Another major theme throughout the genre is that of isolation. Typically, these games contain relatively few non-player characters and, as a result, frequently tell much of their story second-hand through the usage of journals, texts, or audio logs.^[11]

While many action games feature lone protagonists versus swarms of enemies in a suspenseful environment,^[12] survival horror games are distinct from otherwise horror-themed action games.^[13][14] They tend to de-emphasize combat in favor of challenges such as hiding or running from enemies and solving puzzles.^[12] Still, it is not unusual for survival horror games to draw upon elements from first-person shooters, or even role-playing games.^[5] According to IGN, "Survival horror is different from typical game genres in that it is not defined strictly by specific mechanics but subject matter, tone, pacing, and design philosophy."^[11]

 

 

Last sentence:  "Survival horror is different from typical game genres in that it is not defined strictly by specific mechanics but subject matter, tone, pacing, and design philosophy" Bold is my emphasis.

 

The genre has evolved over time, with the more recent games out there starting to emphasis combat more.   Sure 7 days to die is not a pure survival horror game, but as you pointed out earlier in your post, the developers have stated that it is a mashup of First Person shooter, survival horror, Tower defense and Role Playing.  They never stated it was a pure survival horror game.

[meganoth]

46 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

 

 

About steam page  and 7dtd : it's not first descibtion.  it was edited - during A21:    Improve – Increase your skills in 5 major disciplines with a multitude of perks under each attribute. Gain additional skills by reading over 100 books. 7 Days to Die is the only true survival RPG.

 

this mention LBL which is not descibtion from 2013 😕 

 

 

There is "survival horror" -  definition :

survival horror refers to a subgenre of survival video games that includes horror game elements.^[5][6][7] The player character is vulnerable and under-armed,^[8] which puts emphasis on puzzle-solving and evasion, rather than the player taking an offensive strategy.^[9] Games commonly challenge the player to manage their inventory^[10] and ration scarce resources such as ammunition.^[8][9] Another major theme throughout the genre is that of isolation. Typically, these games contain relatively few non-player characters and, as a result, frequently tell much of their story second-hand through the usage of journals, texts, or audio logs.^[11]

While many action games feature lone protagonists versus swarms of enemies in a suspenseful environment,^[12] survival horror games are distinct from otherwise horror-themed action games.^[13][14] They tend to de-emphasize combat in favor of challenges such as hiding or running from enemies and solving puzzles.^[12] Still, it is not unusual for survival horror games to draw upon elements from first-person shooters, or even role-playing games.^[5] According to IGN, "Survival horror is different from typical game genres in that it is not defined strictly by specific mechanics but subject matter, tone, pacing, and design philosophy."^[11]

 

so :  let's use games which was released before/during 7dtd release as examples: Resiedent evil, Clock tower, penumbra, cryostasis, rule of rose, silent hill, dino crysis. what is common thing for that games? Keep themself serious, dark and realistic ( by this in meaning that world of game is reflection of our world... elements - in cryostasis all "frozen ones" use Soviet weaponry suitable for this period of time. rule of rose clothes are suitable to this period, SH is in style of typical USA city - so in cryostasis there is no m16 , rule of rose character doesn't wear medieval clothes or in SH there is not post-soviet style buildings) 

 

is unforgiving suitable to this type of games as well : re is hard game, this same rest of them: which is part of survival horror - always lack of ammo, low number of medkits, force to avoid enemies etc. to create more horrific feeling

 

So: for me this good enough to consider this in that way - is No more room in hell 1 survival game (mod)? yes. Is zombie panic zombie " survival horror" yeah. is... fallout survivor horror? not realy. Is rage survival horror? not realy. Is stalker survival horror? nope. 

 

7dtd was looking on gameplay on screens on trailers like "surival horror" in open world. Not like rage or fallout 1 2 3. Just like classic "source " survival horror ( source because games/mods survival horrors had specific vibe as first alphas). Now 7dtd have more... "satire"/not serious style. Similiar situation to serious  Dead rising 1 and satire dead rising  4.

 

i will make Later longer post directly too Faatal 

 

 

 

Good catch, the steam page was changed. Theoretically the kickstarter page could have changed as well.

 

Did you read that "definition" you posted? There are words like "commonly" "typically", "frequently", "tend to", "is not unusual" in almost every sentence. Once you have a few of those properties you probably can call your game "horror survival". It certainly would be wrong to call 7D2D a pure survival horror game, I would prefer to call it a "survival , horror" game. Or what TFP did there, call it a "mash-up of " multiple genres as some parts of those genres might not survive the "mashing up".

 

So i went to steam and searched for games with the tag "survival horror". And among many dark and sinister games there was also "Don't starve together", which is schock full of humor. And "Secret neighbor" which also has many of the properties of "survival horror" but again is more on the funny side. But both surely fit unter "survival horror".

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Roland]

Just like any dedicated survival game or dedicated role playing game or dedicated farming game or dedicated stealth game or dedicated shooting game or dedicated melee fighting game or dedicated sandbox game or dedicated survival horror game, 7 Days to Die will come up short by comparison because it is a mixture of elements from those games. 
 

People who are survival horror mega-fans will be bothered by the lack of depth in that area while everyone else will think it’s great. It’s just like how stealth game fans are bothered by the stealth in this game while casual fans of stealth gameplay are perfectly happy with that aspect of the game. Farm nuts are less than thrilled by farming in this game while all the rest are okay with the level of farming in the game. Survival-philes are constantly begging for item degradation and food spoilage and more scarcity whereas everyone else is pleased as punch their weapon lasts forever. 
 

The game is never going to reach the level of dedicated survival horror that you want because it is but one of many elements that make up this game and the devs only sprinkled the game with it. 

[Matt115]

Dear @faatal : Maybe you saw my complaining about 7DTD artstyle so i will explain this in longer post : 

Yet at first i will from something positive : Props and Poi design - generaly Map design is realy good. So i doesn't have too much to complain about : i'm happy about that.

But Art design of weapons, armors, and enemies is big weak point of 7dtd.

 

Let's start with guns : 

Junk guns is goffy idea as hell. And mix of this with tier loot cause world building even worst - there is no logical reasons to be junk pistol in military base army and totaly lack military grade gun ( i won't complain that should be mostly guns like  M4A1 or mk17 - even cod doesn't now real live names because of cost of licenses). I get you guys wanted to slow down players from getting best weapons - so maybe better option would make this zone radiactive/ full of hard infected which would force to get lower tier items first. But return to junk guns idea - this have sense in metro 2033 game while in 7dtd not. Metro 2033 is mostly set in Russian metro - so lack of weapons have sense : it could be hard to find weapons in metro + it's set in Moscow mostly. So it would have sense -yet most of gear is still military tier weaponry like AK47, AK2012. 7dtd navezgane is set in USA - classical Texas. So number of "standard" weaponry supposed to be realy high

 Then is " junk" parts like... shovel as stocks - doesn't have sense. I'm not weapon expert but use diffrent gun stocks would be much better option. While guns/spare parts should everywhere.

 

Armors : 

Similiar situation: i get that crafting is important part of 7dtd. totaly fine - yet this doesn't mean that design have to goofy. I know there will be new armor design yet what you show now it's  just unsuitable for serious setting. Check days gone or the last of us - world situation is similiar yet people wear clothes like... people.

 

Let's start from plant fiber armors : 

it's good quality model not suitable to setting. It would be perfect for metro "children of forest" yet in Metro this have sense - get clothes in some parts of russia is hard so i could imagine that kids "piooners" (scouts) had to make clothes themself + there exists ghosts etc. so i could undestand why some people would go barefoot, in fiber clothes mixed with skulls and bones. 7DTD is set in USA and there is no paranormal stuff - so.... much more logical would... find civilian clothes which you can literaly find everywhere - shops, clothes, suitcases just everywhere. You made LBL which force even more for looting so it would have sense to find civilian clothes.

About iron armor - it could be made in ww1 styles.

About - desert armor : it could be just... military armors of USA army.

Bandits armors looks like in rage style - not serious. How to make diffrent variants of bandits good example is days gone. 

Nerd outifit is just ... sad joke

Only good one is wasteland assasin yet it have to remove this goofy spikes. This would cause more bad for owner that good.

 

Zombies :

While i love normal zombie variants and i like colours variants which is good thing and suitable for setting that i think art vision of special enemies was lose.

Crawler looks just totaly bad. Burned zombie - this is not return of the dead or WD so such zombie would be just dead - zombie can't survive being stabed enough or which is ironicaly be set of fire but be totaly burned is fine ? goofy.

Screamer and Spiders are mutants now - which is acctable but wight as normal but without reason strong  enemy doesn't have sense. More logical and suitable option was to change wright into normal zombie or keep it as mutant.

Demolishion zombie. It was suitable with older soldier variant. Yet after new soldier model it's not looking good. If you guys want to make "zombie with c4 on chest"  better option would be do something like falllen survivor from l4d2.

 

 

Summary - when i saw 7dtd first time: it was like no more room in hell or zombie source panic! - classic ( dawn of the dead, WD, previously metion games) artstyle - dark and serious. What it's like now it's not serious and pretty light tone. If game was similiar to others from this period with same art style i could expect  that will keep similiat tone: to be honest - if you see first 7dtd trailer you much likly expect even ghost girls in fear style , psychopats like in dead rising or even hanging corpses on ropes on laterns.

 

I know this is too late to make 7dtd serious similiar to previous alphas. So reason why i write this : if you planning make another game - let's specific say what is your vision. Because we get serious tone in open world during first alphas to be change into something like Mad Max or Rage with zombies. I get that you wanted to get playerbase wide as possible and West players prefere lighter tones yet still - make exactly vision what it will be at first.

[Chris Dunaway]

On 7/30/2023 at 9:35 PM, vergilsparda said:

 

DYING to know where the 5th person sits, because there's the two front seats and the two in the back... unless someone sits in the empty space in the bed, perhaps? 👀

 

The visible mods on it are great, too. Love the idea that the cargo mod just adds a bunch of suitcases and containers. Looks great!

Maybe one of the mods is a gun mount and the 5th person stands at the gun mount.

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, BFT2020 said:

 

 

Last sentence:  "Survival horror is different from typical game genres in that it is not defined strictly by specific mechanics but subject matter, tone, pacing, and design philosophy" Bold is my emphasis.

 

The genre has evolved over time, with the more recent games out there starting to emphasis combat more.   Sure 7 days to die is not a pure survival horror game, but as you pointed out earlier in your post, the developers have stated that it is a mashup of First Person shooter, survival horror, Tower defense and Role Playing.  They never stated it was a pure survival horror game.

I'm talking about tone/art style. Yes now games have rpg elements in fps etc. but - still days gone is serious, toxic commando is goofy in 90's movies style ( whic is heavy underlined - enemy design, music, story), no more room in hell 2 will be serious like nmrih1.  Yet there exist game which mix "mashup of First Person shooter, survival horror, Tower defense and Role Playing" it's Metal gear survive. 7dtd forget about survival horror and only left survival.

 

48 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Good catch, the steam page was changed. Theoretically the kickstarter page could have changed as well.

 

Did you read that "definition" you posted? There are words like "commonly" "typically", "frequently", "tend to", "is not unusual" in almost every sentence. Once you have a few of those properties you probably can call your game "horror survival". It certainly would be wrong to call 7D2D a pure survival horror game, I would prefer to call it a "survival , horror" game. Or what TFP did there, call it a "mash-up of " multiple genres as some parts of those genres might not survive the "mashing up".

 

So i went to steam and searched for games with the tag "survival horror". And among many dark and sinister games there was also "Don't starve together", which is schock full of humor. And "Secret neighbor" which also has many of the properties of "survival horror" but again is more on the funny side. But both surely fit unter "survival horror".

 

 

 

"Secret neightbor" is similiar to "WICK" - at first "goofy" then you figured out it's about more serious stuff. 7DTD is just survival now not survival horror. If devs wrote on begining that 7dts in post apo survival... and put visible elements what they want ( armor design like fallout , guns from junk etc.) they i would consider it won't be horror game just post apo like fallout 3 or rage. If something looks similiar to another games from that period, have similiar describtion about tone/artstyle then... i can presume it will be like this during buying a game.

 

4 minutes ago, Roland said:

Just like any dedicated survival game or dedicated role playing game or dedicated farming game or dedicated stealth game or dedicated shooting game or dedicated melee fighting game or dedicated sandbox game or dedicated survival horror game, 7 Days to Die will come up short by comparison because it is a mixture of elements from those games. 
 

People who are survival horror mega-fans will be bothered by the lack of depth in that area while everyone else will think it’s great. It’s just like how stealth game fans are bothered by the stealth in this game while casual fans of stealth gameplay are perfectly happy with that aspect of the game. Farm nuts are less than thrilled by farming in this game while all the rest are okay with the level of farming in the game. Survival-philes are constantly begging for item degradation and food spoilage and more scarcity whereas everyone else is pleased as punch their weapon lasts forever. 
 

The game is never going to reach the level of dedicated survival horror that you want because it is but one of many elements that make up this game and the devs only sprinkled the game with it. 

Art style/tone  not gameplay.

 

Thief is stealth game but not horror.

AC is stealth game but not horror.

 

I could imagine medieval dynasty game that could be survival horror - just add zombies or ghosts and keep medieval dynasty serious tone. I could imagine even.. car game that coulde be named as horror survival : road of the dead 2. 

 

I'm not complaing  about gameplay Roland but about tone/style/world building. If 7dtd was 1:1 like it have today ( except things like tier pool which influence on wordl building ) mechanics but world made similiar to Contagion or Days gone or NMRIH or even WD then i woudn't complain

 

[Roland]

16 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Art style/tone  not gameplay.

 

Thief is stealth game but not horror.

AC is stealth game but not horror.

 

I could imagine medieval dynasty game that could be survival horror - just add zombies or ghosts and keep medieval dynasty serious tone. I could imagine even.. car game that coulde be named as horror survival : road of the dead 2. 

 

I'm not complaing  about gameplay Roland but about tone/style/world building. If 7dtd was 1:1 like it have today ( except things like tier pool which influence on wordl building ) mechanics but world made similiar to Contagion or Days gone or NMRIH or even WD then i woudn't complain

Gotcha. Their next game is going to be original art from the outset so there won’t be subbing in original art for unity store assets which might result in a change like what happened with this game. 
 

For example in this game the guns started out as generic but realistic models of existing guns but eventually got changed to jury-rigged scrap parts guns. 
 

They already have the theme and tone they want for the next game and they are creating all the art to match what they want from the outset. So if you are happy knowing that this will be the case for the next game then you can set your heart at ease. 

[meilodasreh]

sounds like it's time for a "next game alpha1 dev diary" thread 🙂

[Matt115]

33 minutes ago, Roland said:

Gotcha. Their next game is going to be original art from the outset so there won’t be subbing in original art for unity store assets which might result in a change like what happened with this game. 
 

For example in this game the guns started out as generic but realistic models of existing guns but eventually got changed to jury-rigged scrap parts guns. 
 

They already have the theme and tone they want for the next game and they are creating all the art to match what they want from the outset. So if you are happy knowing that this will be the case for the next game then you can set your heart at ease. 

so great then 

[hiemfire]

2 hours ago, Roland said:

stealth game fans are bothered by the stealth in this game while casual fans of stealth gameplay are perfectly happy with that aspect of the game.

Stealth needs to be fixed so it isn't so incredibly bipolar. When it works it is brokenly powerful, when it gets "shut off" (even in cases where the triggered game actions aren't targeting the player but are merely swarming the trigger point) the player is left with the perceived equivalent of being tossed into a pool of piranha with slit wrists and lead shoes. Modding being a thing that is supported doesn't change that stealth is broken.

 

Edit: And I despise "Stealth" games. They are all hyper linear interconnected activity areas, like little bubbles on a string.

Edited August 1, 2023 by hiemfire (see edit history)

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Matt115 said:

I'm talking about tone/art style. Yes now games have rpg elements in fps etc. but - still days gone is serious, toxic commando is goofy in 90's movies style ( whic is heavy underlined - enemy design, music, story), no more room in hell 2 will be serious like nmrih1.  Yet there exist game which mix "mashup of First Person shooter, survival horror, Tower defense and Role Playing" it's Metal gear survive. 7dtd forget about survival horror and only left survival.

 

"Secret neightbor" is similiar to "WICK" - at first "goofy" then you figured out it's about more serious stuff. 7DTD is just survival now not survival horror. If devs wrote on begining that 7dts in post apo survival... and put visible elements what they want ( armor design like fallout , guns from junk etc.) they i would consider it won't be horror game just post apo like fallout 3 or rage. If something looks similiar to another games from that period, have similiar describtion about tone/artstyle then... i can presume it will be like this during buying a game.

 

Art style/tone  not gameplay.

 

Thief is stealth game but not horror.

AC is stealth game but not horror.

 

I could imagine medieval dynasty game that could be survival horror - just add zombies or ghosts and keep medieval dynasty serious tone. I could imagine even.. car game that coulde be named as horror survival : road of the dead 2. 

 

I'm not complaing  about gameplay Roland but about tone/style/world building. If 7dtd was 1:1 like it have today ( except things like tier pool which influence on wordl building ) mechanics but world made similiar to Contagion or Days gone or NMRIH or even WD then i woudn't complain

 

 

But they didn't say that the tone would be horror when they said this would be a horror game. They said among the genres was horror and with zombies, who for example eat you when you die, there is horror in this game by any definition of the word.

 

A horror comedy movie has also horror in its description whatever its tone.

 

 

[Matt115]

3 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

But they didn't say that the tone would be horror when they said this would be a horror game. They said among the genres was horror and with zombies, who for example eat you when you die, there is horror in this game by any definition of the word.

 

A horror comedy movie has also horror in its description whatever its tone.

 

 

comedy is specific situation -> usualy if there is nothing that is "logical" for comedy "romance comedy" then it's.... parody : 

full metal jacket is war movie --> have parody

300 is action movie --- > have parody ( met mine spartans)

star wars is space opera --- > have parody

apocalypse now! is war movie --- > parody.

There can be satire which is part of comedy  but then it keep itself serious and it's "funny " just because it's absurd.

Starship troopers ----> satire about war and propaganda : for viewer it's absourd but for characters it's serious

 some scream and  nightmare from elms street movies-----> satire about horrror movies ; for killers it's just having good time while for victim it's serious situation.

 

But returning to 7dtd - if reason how settting was looks like how it was looking because "unity store assets" as Roland told : then should be notion on steam/  trailer that "  currently artstyle doesn't reflect final; version artstyle" and that's it. Yet because of lack of such info it  was looking like it's like how 7dtd supposed to looks like.  I will give example : 

 

and Mads (main dev) exactly explained what it's style of their game, about art style, gameplay etc. on this game discord. Yes some people go away because wanted fantasy with dragons etc ( here it's realistic style - " zombies" are made by something similar to fungus so... this is kinda medieval the last of us about world building) or typical rpg ( this exfil - lite game. 

[Exxodous]

Good grief, start a new thread already in general discussions or DM each other.  I came here to read any new news on A21 and instead scrolled through 3 pages of Matt and Megonoth arguing about the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

 

See...reading the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over is tiresome.

 

Let it go Elsa!    

[meganoth]

55 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

comedy is specific situation -> usualy if there is nothing that is "logical" for comedy "romance comedy" then it's.... parody : 

full metal jacket is war movie --> have parody

300 is action movie --- > have parody ( met mine spartans)

star wars is space opera --- > have parody

apocalypse now! is war movie --- > parody.

There can be satire which is part of comedy  but then it keep itself serious and it's "funny " just because it's absurd.

Starship troopers ----> satire about war and propaganda : for viewer it's absourd but for characters it's serious

 some scream and  nightmare from elms street movies-----> satire about horrror movies ; for killers it's just having good time while for victim it's serious situation.

 

Exxodous, you may get your wish as I don't even understand what he wants to tell me with this list that seems largely irrelevant to what I wrote. Matt, comedy in my country is used as a generic term for things like parody. And there are actually movies that are called horror comedies here. And that is the last I will write about it

 

[beerfly]

1 hour ago, Exxodous said:

Good grief, start a new thread already in general discussions or DM each other.  I came here to read any new news on A21 and instead scrolled through 3 pages of Matt and Megonoth arguing about the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

 

See...reading the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over is tiresome.

 

Let it go Elsa!    

Sometimes here is like being in your classroom, back when we were students.

 

Worry not, if something gets bad, Roland gets in and just says to get a blank sheet of paper and then everyone is back to finishing it`s horde base. Or looting. 

 

Or worst. He gives us a homework. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by beerfly (see edit history)

[Arma Rex]

@Roland I know it's been asked before, but do you think it's appropriate to start the A22 development thread? Besides discussion surrounding the experimental point releases of A21, this thread is largely becoming obsolete.

[Riamus]

23 hours ago, falloutcloud said:

However, I do wish that I could paint a map with where I want the desert, forest, wasteland, and snow biomes to be.

Well, you can do this.  It just had to be fine after generating the map.  Just edit the biomes.png file in any image editor and change where the bones are.  The biome colors must be exactly the same, though.

[Adam the Waster]

Alpha 22 forum when? 

like the progress so far! 

[Roland]

2 hours ago, Arma Rex said:

@Roland I know it's been asked before, but do you think it's appropriate to start the A22 development thread? Besides discussion surrounding the experimental point releases of A21, this thread is largely becoming obsolete.

As soon as Madmole gives the say so I’m sure that Crater Creator will get it started. Are we really ready for arguments over armor, outfits, bandits, weather, and the traders becoming an even more critical factor in the game?
 

Of course we are!

Edited August 2, 2023 by Roland (see edit history)

[Justsomedudewholikespasta]

Hey, I've been a long time fan and player of this game, and I created this account just to say this:

 

The magazine grind is way too much. Not only is it silly, and not even realistic ( I get it, realism in a video game is silly), you end up finding loot way better than you'll ever be able to craft CONSTANTLY. 

 

Devs, PLEASE either revert to the previous system, or figure out something new that actually makes sense. 

 

If I'm some kind of engineer capable of iron smithing, it makes no sense for me to find random "engineering" magazines through out the world, MULTIPLE of them, to understand how to work steel.  
 

I understand your intent was to prolong the advancement through the tech trees, but this is FAR too much and needlessly silly. 

 

Thanks, bye.