The Great Ammo Nerf in Alpha 20.1 b5

[Raindear Games]

I give 20.1 experimental b5 a huge thumbs up. No glitches. No funny business. The games finally works like it's supposed to if you do a fresh install. NOT ONE GLITCH for me.

BUT Ammo Nerf!

I understand that to fully experience this, one must wipe all worlds and playthroughs and start over, but I am still shocked that so few have discussed the effect this has on the first few weeks (and longer) of gameplay. If you don't cheat (as some do), then this is a game changer, and makes crafting your own ammo and gunpowder all the more imperative asap; along with melee/brawl/archery only battling. Youtubers have yet to catch up with this, either.

The nerf is real, folks. Is it going to be reversed? If not, then some time in the near future many streamer tears will be falling if they have to start over with a fresh install (especially if b5 goes stable). Until then, I guess no one is going to say boo about it. It's not that you won't find bullets. You just won't find anywhere near as much as you did. Instead of 50, you get 10. Instead of stacks, you get trickles.

It's like a really big elephant in the room, but it hasn't woken up yet. For me, I'm good. I'm used to it. Many are not. But they will be! (unless it gets reversed).

 

[Roland]

They won't reverse it but they might swing the pendulum back a bit if they discover they went too far. I doubt that it will return to the levels it was at previously.

 

I don't know that we will get that many tears. Youtubers were among the loudest and first voices stating that in their opinion there was way too much ammo. But you never know. People can always turn their loot to 200% or more if they decide they liked the larger ammo counts.

 

 

[Raindear Games]

You are flawlessly logical as always, Roland. Don't ever change!

[pApA^LeGBa]

If it isn´t a lot less than in A19, all is good imo. Back to actually making your own ammo. Like it should be in a survival crafting game. After all this is not a loot shooter.

[Viktoriusiii]

THANK YOU!!!
I put my loot down to 25% and was STILL swimming in ammo.
I realize I am conservative of how I use it... but still. Having chests full of ammo on hordenight without ever having crafte one is unusual.

[Simple]

Haven't played 20.1 yet but I am excited to. I too dislike that there's just so much ammo to go around and I quite like making my own. Makes you dread the 7th night all the more when you're mass producing ammo the 6th day 🤣

[theFlu]

I'm on my 5th week in A20.1 b5, I'd say it's a lot better than it was. I'm running a rifle build* this time, so my ammo use is low, but I haven't really crafted any and 9mm and shotty shells are piling up waiting to feed a couple turrets.

 

*early game rifle build, also known as clearing POIs with pistols, killing most of the hordes with 'nades, while carrying a pretty rifle in toolbelt for .. some reason. I do use it, but before a lever action, preferably two, it isn't really a mainable weapon.

[gurutar]

this was a very necessary change and i hope they don't raise ammo counts back up any higher. i think in 20.1 its well balanced.

[Kyonshi]

Thank you for the nerf, Pimps! I love the ammo rebalance because even if play at 100% Loot, I'm not swimming in ammo like in previous alphas. I don't know how the hell people play to be submerged in bullets, but there's something they don't tell us, it just doesn't make sense. The ammo nerf for quest rewards was the first step and I'm glad I don't find 75 of them every time I turn around the corner.

[warmer]

I save every round for horde nights and I was floored by how many stacks of shotgun ammo I had in A20. I am glad it was nerfed in A20.1 it just seemed way to common given the setting. Ammo and bread and H2O would be worth their weight in gold in this scenario.

[Sydious]

4 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

After all this is not a loot shooter.

There is no way you typed that with a straight face lol

[pApA^LeGBa]

1 hour ago, Sydious said:

There is no way you typed that with a straight face lol

 

Just because there is loot and it´s in first person doesn´t make this game a loot shooter.

 

Borderlands is loot shooter. Where you farm bosses over and over again to get a particular drop with the right parts and stats.

Edited January 29, 2022 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

3 hours ago, Sydious said:

There is no way you typed that with a straight face lol

 

You are very generous with the term loot shooter if you think 7D2D falls into that category.

[Niil945]

The value of ammo in loot rooms increases if ammo is more scarce. As it stands running a T5 and ending up with 2k+ 9mm ammo when I'm using an SMG to kill things is ridiculous, let alone the many other stacks of ammo that I just ignore or throw away.

 

One thing it made clear to me is the base game needs a turret that consumes 7.62 ammo though. At least I can dump the other 2 into turrets but that stuff I just don't even know what to do with at those levels.

[Sydious]

55 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

 

You are very generous with the term loot shooter if you think 7D2D falls into that category.

It falls closer to "shooter" than it does "crafting" after last few years of "updates".  Hell, even Diablo 3 has more useful crafting at this point.

2 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

Just because there is loot and it´s in first person doesn´t make this game a loot shooter.

 

Borderlands is loot shooter. Where you farm bosses over and over again to get a particular drop with the right parts and stats.

No, in this game you just farm poi's over and over again until you get the drops you want.

[Niil945]

19 minutes ago, Sydious said:

No, in this game you just farm poi's over and over again until you get the drops you want.

Don't forget the trader

 

But seriously, I'd estimate I get a solid 1/3 of my loot from trader rewards. More if you perk out DA. The actual items on the trader are generally poor quality so they aren't meaningful to me in most playthroughs. 

[Khissi]

 I'm just glad I saw the 'writing on the wall' in a20 and started perfecting my melee base.  The nerf is real and I will be struggling to find enough ammo to run even one SMG turret by Day 21 horde.  I run 120 days because I love looting, so my horde nights are long and fun, and often done twice for Horde Day 7 and 14.  However, this puts me at a pretty high gamestage for Day 21 horde, and I need to have steel and electric fences and, if possible, a turret or two.  I still use mostly melee, but by that time, I really NEED to have firepower for all the cops and soldiers and bikers, not to mention the dogs from hell.  So, I'm scrounging and saving and hoarding all the ammo I can in a20.1 and the difference is VERY noticable.  It is going to be tight...  But, man, is it going to be fun!  I am very happy with the way it looks.  I like that bit of anxiety.

[Sydious]

Corridor, electric fences, bars with opening for stun baton w/ repulsor mod, bow and arrow is my go to for no gun play throughs and works way better now in A20 with bow upgrade.

 

[Niil945]

15 minutes ago, Sydious said:

Corridor, electric fences, bars with opening for stun baton w/ repulsor mod, bow and arrow is my go to for no gun play throughs and works way better now in A20 with bow upgrade.

 

I've had quirky issues with the repulsor that knock them through walls so I stopped using it. After knocking out bulletproof glass in POI's because they glitched through it due to repulsor the third time I just took the thing off. It depends on base design but I usually section off my fences and tripwires inside a U shaped kill area and wouldn't want z's to warp through the walls inside my base if I hit them from the side. The bow changes I liked, but it's just way too slow for me. I absolutely hate the reload time. I use them for explosive bolts/arrows or when thinning large sleeper clusters but generally don't use them because of how slow to reload they are.

[bdubyah]

It absolutely needed a good nerf. When you can carry a pipe machinegun around from day 1 and never run out of ammo while also never crafting any, is ridiculous.

 

Now, if they would just turn to those 500 block supply drop/quest rewards...

[canadianbluebeer]

There is no such thing as "Too Much Ammo".

😛

 

(the nerf just means I have to *make* more. oh wait, I'm always making more ammo)

 

 

[POCKET951]

On 1/28/2022 at 1:00 PM, Roland said:

They won't reverse it but they might swing the pendulum back a bit if they discover they went too far. I doubt that it will return to the levels it was at previously.

 

I don't know that we will get that many tears. Youtubers were among the loudest and first voices stating that in their opinion there was way too much ammo. But you never know. People can always turn their loot to 200% or more if they decide they liked the larger ammo counts.

 

 

 I think it would be acceptable to swing the pendulum back a bit for  end of POI loot containers  and ammo piles in tiers 1-3, maybe even 4?

I would say 80% of the excess ammo in the Alpha 20 B238 build came from yellow/blue/red zombie loot bags

in b238 I had a 233 lootstage hordenight where I got over 5k round of ammo

Edited January 29, 2022 by POCKET951 (see edit history)

[KageOni]

I guess I'm on the outside but I think you are all crazy. I love swimming in ammo. I struggle to find a place to keep it all. 

 

Why would you want to craft it? Having to craft stuff like that in this game is so tedious. 

[DaChibii]

4 hours ago, KageOni said:

I guess I'm on the outside but I think you are all crazy. I love swimming in ammo. I struggle to find a place to keep it all. 

 

Why would you want to craft it? Having to craft stuff like that in this game is so tedious. 

Outside possible hording tendencies showing...

What do you consider fun crafting?

[KageOni]

9 hours ago, DaChibii said:

Outside possible hording tendencies showing...

What do you consider fun crafting?

 

I don't know if any crafting is "fun" but I don't mind things like getting the items together to craft a weapon, or even a box of ammo. But the box of ammo recipe is locked behind a full set of books for each ammo type. Having the escape from tedium be such a long and RNG based journey doesn't appeal to me. 

 

Like, right now I am building on a new room to my Red Mesa base. With each block costing 10 concrete mix I went through a stack of 1000 in no time. However, now, I am constantly jumping back and further between forges and cement mixers to keep the queues full. After about 10 minutes I only have a couple hundred. 

 

It wouldn't be such a big deal if I could queue up as many as I want but with only 4 queue slots I find crafting to be more of a chore than a rewarding game mechanic. 

 

EDIT: you know what, belay my last, I just discovered you can make stacks of items by increase the craft quantity. lol. That eleviats a lot of the concerns I have with crafting. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by KageOni (see edit history)