Biome Lootstage bonus should seriously be tuned down

[Howlune]

It honestly feels like something that was added cause you could, not because you should.
There is no reason not to rush wasteland and get T6 every other loot container before you even hit level 70. Theres barely a reason to craft anything now because of this. High rarity in loot makes it more meaningful and rewarding when found, and this is completely antithetical to that and makes gameplay feel rushed and boring now. Please reconsider/retune this mechanic... don't leave it to modders to make the game more fun.

Also on another note with loot rarity/crafting, why are there quest rewards that give 500 steel/concrete blocks? What the hell? That's completely bonkers.

[Sjustus548]

I love this change.  It incentivizes people to visit the less friendly biomes again.  Without this change why would I ever go and risk everything when I could just go to a forest biome and have a much easier time?  Also you can't craft Q6 stuff so that is a reason to go out and do some looting.  The reason they have modding in the game is for people like you who don't agree with how they developed the game.  Don't like it then remove it.  

[Telric]

"There is no reason not to rush wasteland and get T6"

Some of us are ok with enjoying a game and not rushing to the end. Maybe YOU rush to the wasteland, but I do not, and I enjoy my experience much more. If your goal is to finish ASAP, just load up in creative and give yourself stuff. Bam. You've won the game...

[Howlune]

Perhaps I'm just jaded and see everything as a competition now. Apologies. Maybe the game isn't for me anymore.

[Tohskrad]

I avoided the wasteland at all costs in Alpha 19, since there wasn't much reason to visit due to the difficulty.  I'm actually glad they give a reason to go now (even though It'll be a PITA), though we'll have to wait and see how it plays out.  Only lvl 38 and still on a bicycle, so absolutely no chance I'm visiting there anytime soon.

[Roland]

24 minutes ago, Howlune said:

Perhaps I'm just jaded and see everything as a competition now. Apologies. Maybe the game isn't for me anymore.

 

The game isn't in its final state. The current settings are just the first iteration. It will certainly be adjusted and when bandits are introduced the difficulty associated with the richer biomes will increase by a huge factor. People who rush into the wasteland to get better loot early will be risking a lot.

 

But...this is an open world game so you will always be able to go wherever you want and if you feel going into the wasteland too early destroys your fun then don't do it. If you are playing PvP and really ARE competing then the arms race against other players is the challenge and difficulty of the game.

2 hours ago, Howlune said:

It honestly feels like something that was added cause you could, not because you should.

 

Added because we have a ton of people to playtest and give feedback. Not added as what we thought should necessarily be the final complete state.

2 hours ago, Howlune said:

There is no reason not to rush wasteland and get T6 every other loot container before you even hit level 70. Theres barely a reason to craft anything now because of this. High rarity in loot makes it more meaningful and rewarding when found, and this is completely antithetical to that and makes gameplay feel rushed and boring now.

 

Good feedback. Thanks. This is the sort of reaction we need to hear and we want you to know that we are continuing to fine tune and adjust. Bandits will change things for Wasteland Rushers.

 

2 hours ago, Howlune said:

Please reconsider/retune this mechanic... don't leave it to modders to make the game more fun.

 

Of course. This is precisely what this alpha time is for and why we aren't out of early access yet. We never considered not tuning the mechanic.

2 hours ago, Howlune said:

Also on another note with loot rarity/crafting, why are there quest rewards that give 500 steel/concrete blocks? What the hell? That's completely bonkers.

 

yeah, probably another area to tune in. Remember, though, that the philosophy of the developers is to offer players different avenues to get things like concrete blocks. You can purchase them, get them as rewards, mine and craft them, etc. You should choose to acquire them in the way that is the most fun for you.

[Ramethzer0]

3 hours ago, Howlune said:

There is no reason not to rush wasteland and get T6 every other loot container before you even hit level 70. Theres barely a reason to craft anything now because of this.

Point of contention:  To rush is a choice.   A choice not everyone is going to make.

 

No one is pushing people toward it.   It might be incentivised but that comes with a difficulty attached, and it requires a lot of ammo to secure locations just so you CAN loot them.

 

There are plenty of reasons NOT to rush.  On my MP server, we put up a quick and dirty base in the Wasteland before we even know what to expect and it's a constant resource drain to maintain it +me +5 others.  The total amount of resources we use up on just a daily basis did not meet the rewards we were given.  To quote you right back, 'Just because you can do a thing, doesn't mean you should.'

[Kyonshi]

Dont consider your point of view on the game as being a factual reference. Where you observe a ''problem'' isnt an issue for someone else.

Its absolutely inaccurate to say crafting is useless because of the potential loot you get in that biome, as far as im concerned. Its not because it gives the highest loot bonus that everything level 6 falls in your hands from the heavens... You just play on Insane difficulty as i do to realize quite fast that 1) you definitely can't tackle on the Wasteland early on, and this is without feral sense being active, and 2) you realize that since you can't handle the hell that is this biome, you'll have to craft stuff by gathering resources and leveling up your skills in another biome in order to be ready for it.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Kyonshi (see edit history)

[gurutar]

this is one of the best changes from A19 to A20 imo. in A19 loot was terribly linear, you could practically predict what you were going to get in a crate based on your gamestage. a lot of people complained that the rush of getting a random great item was lost.

 

instead of reintroducing very random progression, they allowed people to take on increased risk to get the increased reward they wanted. a perfect risk/reward situation, and i personally visit the snow biome a bunch before ever touching the wasteland.

Edited January 24, 2022 by gurutar (see edit history)

[NBornkilla]

14 hours ago, Howlune said:

It honestly feels like something that was added cause you could, not because you should.
There is no reason not to rush wasteland and get T6 every other loot container before you even hit level 70. Theres barely a reason to craft anything now because of this. High rarity in loot makes it more meaningful and rewarding when found, and this is completely antithetical to that and makes gameplay feel rushed and boring now. Please reconsider/retune this mechanic... don't leave it to modders to make the game more fun.

Also on another note with loot rarity/crafting, why are there quest rewards that give 500 steel/concrete blocks? What the hell? That's completely bonkers.

its your fault you rush wasteland  fast  other people platy different why you have to ruin they experience on the game? dont like the loot  system go to setting and lower the loot %  and dont rush to the wasteland simple as that.

[PoloPoPo]

I don't think it is the right approach to blame the topic starter to rush into wasteland and get better loot instantly, saying "you don't have to do it". I mean... everyone tries their best when playing a video game, no? When you play a racing game you pick the car that is most suitable for the selected track. When playing a shooter you pick the best gear that allows you most kills and least deaths. But in 7D2D you are being called out for doing what is most successful and getting told to play more like a noob as a solution? I don't think that we should do that.

 

Developers have to ensure that you cannot get hands on certain items of a certain quality before it makes sense in terms of a nice progression(*). However, I think they did a good job with the Wasteland and also with Snow biome, where loot stages are higher than usual. Going into Wasteland early is really hard. No new player would stand a chance there. Nearly the same with Snow biome, not quite that hard though but still a struggle. Risk-reward-ratio feels good and I don't quite agree with the topic starter there.

 

(*) In my opinion that also applies to nerd poling a way up to main stashes or taking other short cuts. That simply should not be possible from a game design perspective. It is the wrong approach to tell players not to do that and if they do it is their own fault if this ruins their game experience. Getting main loot as quickly and easy as possible is the most effective and best way of looting in terms of surviving. Therefore players will exploit that and if it turns out to ruin their fun they will call it a bad game.

Edited January 24, 2022 by PoloPoPo (see edit history)

[Boidster]

18 hours ago, Howlune said:

rush wasteland and get T6 every other loot container before you even hit level 70

 

To me this is a bit of a contradiction. Usually by level 20-30 I feel ready to make forays into the edges of the wasteland and certainly by level 70! In A19, did you not feel equipped to go into the wasteland until after level 70? Nevermind; I focused on "rush" and not "T6" (by which I think you mean Quality 6). The complaint seems to be that Q6 should not be obtainable before level 70, is that right?

 

Also, nothing to do with you of course, but just last week I think we had a thread about how the wasteland was way too hard for newer players. Something along the lines of "how am I supposed to survive the wasteland with all these zombies and only a pipe gun?" Answer: "you're not" e.g. "don't rush the wasteland".

Edited January 24, 2022 by Boidster (see edit history)

[seagas]

I like the idea of the loot stage system, I believe it adds the incentive to do hard quests and explore harder biomes. That said, I think they need to be adjusted to it isn't so extreme of a difference. Also IMHO, the tier 6 items are too common, they should be more rare to support the idea that they really are special. 

[gurutar]

42 minutes ago, seagas said:

Also IMHO, the tier 6 items are too common, they should be more rare to support the idea that they really are special. 

yeah i agree, i found a level 6 steel club in a school bus and i'm swimming in level 6 steel armor. it's pretty excessive.

[Boidster]

In a different thread from a couple of weeks ago, TFP acknowledged that the loot probability tables needed to be recalculated. They implemented the biome & POI modifiers, but didn't rebalance the probability tables. Or they didn't do it carefully & comprehensively just going by the results we see. It's on the to-do list. I'm not making an argument against posting threads like this, just pointing out that TFP is aware of the loot balance issues. In the meantime, we just have to suffer. Or get all modlet-y.

 

When they release an update with a patch note of "loot tables rebalanced", then we really can start complaining.

[POCKET951]

11 minutes ago, Boidster said:

In a different thread from a couple of weeks ago, TFP acknowledged that the loot probability tables needed to be recalculated. They implemented the biome & POI modifiers, but didn't rebalance the probability tables. Or they didn't do it carefully & comprehensively just going by the results we see. It's on the to-do list. I'm not making an argument against posting threads like this, just pointing out that TFP is aware of the loot balance issues. In the meantime, we just have to suffer. Or get all modlet-y.

 

When they release an update with a patch note of "loot tables rebalanced", then we really can start complaining.

 I am still awaiting the 44 magnum ammo fix 😅 a bit disappointed it's currently still an issue in 20.1 exp  when TFP said in the bug report forums that it would be fixed in an upcoming(A20 was stable at the time and the next build is already out and it isn't fixed)

[palikkamaa]

On my current playthrough, I made horde base to the wasteland at day 21. I got lucky with 500 concrete block and a crucible from trader. I got maybe 5-6 polices during the first wave and regural/ferals rest of the night. Loot wasnt anything special at 140LS but then 28th day, 160LS, I got multiple chainsaws, t6 military chest, T4 steel pickaxe and other good loot. Without molotovs I would have been toasted (i had t3 autoshotgun and t3 TAC with zero ranged damage perks). I could go full throttle with ammo production but I need to finish my base first. 

[Niil945]

I dig it...sorta.

 

I like that POI rewards are better in the wasteland (or harder biomes).

I dislike that bags dropped from bloodmoon night are boosted which means it's best to have a base in the wastelands (read that and it seems true but not 100% on this).

I'm interested to see how bandits add to the game overall and being in the wasteland could get very messy with bandits running around.

I wish the bonus impacted quest rewards, i.e. if a forest biome trader sends you to the wasteland the rewards should be better for the quest than doing the same POI in an easier area. Not just the POI loot itself. This would make home basing in more aesthetically pleasing areas not such drag on rewards.

 

But it's also funny because I just read another thread on the steam forums by someone complaining that the bonus is garbage because it's not high enough and it's so dangerous.

[Boidster]

8 minutes ago, Niil945 said:

I dislike that bags dropped from bloodmoon night are boosted which means it's best to have a base in the wastelands (read that and it seems true but not 100% on this).

 

The biome your feet are standing on when you open the bag determines the lootstage bonuses (we have tested by spawning bags at the border of two biomes). Practically speaking, that means that a wasteland horde night will produce better loot than a pine forest horde night. But a wasteland horde isn't any harder than a pine forest horde (the spawn groups aren't biome-scaled) so it 100% makes sense, from a min/maxing standpoint, to build a horde base in the wasteland.

 

It is a bit goofy, and probably it could be fixed in a relatively straightforward way by flagging horde-night bags as biome-neutral. Just the raw player lootstage when they're opened. Meanwhile, bags from random biome spawns could still enjoy the bonus.

[Shockwave1]

I think the loot stage bonus should be removed entirely it doesn't seem to work well. I think certain things should be available from certain biomes though. Like oil shale in the desert. Certain needed things would require you to visit the different biomes eventually. The idea of building your horde base in the wasteland is very limiting on certain maps. The fact that the horde is the same for better rewards is just ridiculous.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Shockwave1 (see edit history)

[Rince]

I like it. If you want and can manage to do, you can adventure in harder biomes to get a chance to get better loot. (Or not, I did the hospital in the wastelands the other day, and for my troubles fighting wave after wave after wave of outside zombies I got nothing interesting... not even a miserable antibiotic to fight the infection that I got while doing it).