It is too hard, it limits new players

[Gazz]

1 hour ago, Darklegend222 said:

A demolisher on day 2 seems like a major issue that only ap corrupt game will have.

 

No, he just left out some details like not being in the pine forest and being deep in a city...

[Darklegend222]

1 hour ago, Gazz said:

 

No, he just left out some details like not being in the pine forest and being deep in a city...

I can disagree with that, I've been in the city in the wasteland many times at a game stage of 90 and I have yet to see a demolisher. They only appear on horde nights so far.

[Reckis]

I was having similar problems until I remembered/was reminded to clear out the old files.

 

Remembering to do that seems to be more critical with this alpha than it has in the past, causing all sorts of issues that can be seen as "bugs".

 

The real bugs stick around even after clearing all the old files - like robot modules falling through structures randomly.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Reckis
spelling correction (see edit history)

[Boidster]

4 hours ago, Darklegend222 said:

I can disagree with [what Gazz said]

 

But...you shouldn't.

 

    <entitygroup name="ZombiesWastelandDowntown">
        ...a bunch of zombies which aren't Demolishers...
        <entity name="zombieDemolition" prob=".05"/>

 

Note that because of all the other not-Demolisher zombies in the group, the actual probability of spawning a Demolisher in the Wasteland Downtown zone is .00136 (1.36 tenths of one percent). Very rare.

 

Edit to add: oh, they're in non-Wasteland downtown also:

 

    <entitygroup name="ZombiesDowntown">
        ... boring muggles ...
        <entity name="zombieDemolition" prob=".02"/>

 

Even more rare there: .0008 (8 hundredths of one percent). Dire Wolves are over twice as likely.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Boidster (see edit history)

[Darklegend222]

3 hours ago, Boidster said:

 

But...you shouldn't.

 

    <entitygroup name="ZombiesWastelandDowntown">
        ...a bunch of zombies which aren't Demolishers...
        <entity name="zombieDemolition" prob=".05"/>

 

Note that because of all the other not-Demolisher zombies in the group, the actual probability of spawning a Demolisher in the Wasteland Downtown zone is .00136 (1.36 tenths of one percent). Very rare.

 

Edit to add: oh, they're in non-Wasteland downtown also:

 

    <entitygroup name="ZombiesDowntown">
        ... boring muggles ...
        <entity name="zombieDemolition" prob=".02"/>

 

Even more rare there: .0008 (8 hundredths of one percent). Dire Wolves are over twice as likely.

So extremely rare. I appreciate you correcting me and pastimg some xml  data. I've gotta get better at delving in there.

[Roland]

5 hours ago, Boidster said:

 

But...you shouldn't.

 

    <entitygroup name="ZombiesWastelandDowntown">
        ...a bunch of zombies which aren't Demolishers...
        <entity name="zombieDemolition" prob=".05"/>

 

Note that because of all the other not-Demolisher zombies in the group, the actual probability of spawning a Demolisher in the Wasteland Downtown zone is .00136 (1.36 tenths of one percent). Very rare.

 

Edit to add: oh, they're in non-Wasteland downtown also:

 

    <entitygroup name="ZombiesDowntown">
        ... boring muggles ...
        <entity name="zombieDemolition" prob=".02"/>

 

Even more rare there: .0008 (8 hundredths of one percent). Dire Wolves are over twice as likely.

 

What he should be mad about is that all of his Lottery luck was used up rolling a Demolisher in the downtown area during the first week. Too bad. But at least he can run around naked during his next lightning storm and feel perfectly safe.

[BarryTGash]

9 hours ago, Roland said:

he can run around naked during his next lightning storm and feel perfectly safe

 

Disclaimer: Luck can down up as well as up. Consult a licensed astrologer or tea leaf/entrail reader for advice.

Edited January 13, 2022 by BarryTGash (see edit history)

[Gazz]

Well, I don't mind people disagreeing with me. Doesn't mean they are right. 😃

[mr.devolver]

On 1/10/2022 at 11:40 AM, ungkor said:

For those of us that have been playing this game for years, we know what is "coming up" and we can plan for it accordingly. 

 

I feel like any new players are basically going to hate this game. 

 

But even if you are a experienced player, alpha 20 seems like a a build that is designed to just frustrate people.   I'm on day 15, I have a 9mm pistol with a mod, a pipe shotgun, and a pipe machine gun.   I have a few pieces of a armor. 

 

I start a "fix the generators quest".    I roll up in my bike, and I see a bear in the distance.   I shoot it the face with 2 clips of 9mm and it kills me.  Ok, great.  Maybe I missed a lot.  

 

I start the mission at 22:00 to start the generators, and am swarmed by, I am not kidding, 15 zeds, in the first 'trick room'.  

 

How the @%$# are you supposed to fight off 15 zombies at night with a 9mm and a few pipe guns?

 

There were years where 7d2d was my go to 'have a bit of fun' each night game.  I don't know that the intention is for this game, or where the devs want it to go, but for me right now, it just doesn't feel fun.  

 

Please bring the fun back.   

 

I don't know what being "an experienced player" means to you, but having almost 4000 hours in the game, I usually don't shoot bears with a gun when I absolutely DON'T have to, meaning when they are easily avoided and pose no threat to me. Also, while I usually don't go to face hordes of 15 zeds with 9mm pistol (because I chop them with my steel axe instead), as a long time player I know that restore power quest is a bit new, only introduced in A20 and as such, it will have to go through lots of balancing just like everything else that was once newly added into the game... I guess "fun" is a very subjective term that is interpreted differently by each person. I guess running around ferals with a steel axe during a blood moon horde in HIGASHI PHARMACEUTICAL is nothing for you, but I had a blast and I survived to tell you all about it...

[Skuriles]

I fully understand the OP regarding quest difficulty. 

Especially the night quests (and with feral sense on) you can enter one room, and have 10 Zs running at you. Even with some perks for agility/stealth. 

I always skip night quests and try to do the normal ones. Until T4 Quests for me the difficulty is fine. You have some rooms where you have to handle up to 10 or 15 Zs (maybe 2 or 3 ferals, but nothing which can not be blown up with a good weapon according to your perks). 

But with T5 quests the whole thing becomes really challenging. I think of the Shamway factory, where you enter the last room from the roof side. 
You will break through the floor and 20 Zs, including at least one radiated feral and several ferals come after you. You will be wrecked within seconds. Quest is gone after death, and that after you cleared 95% of the quest and spent up to a whole day doing this.

If you know all the POIs than you can avoid that "traps", but for new players this is really frustrating (and even for me with several 100 hrs played).

 

On my second try I made it (cleared the floor, and killed all Zs from above). Quest finished (took me the whole day without doing any looting). The night occured and thanks to feral sense I had 15-20 ferals running at me all the time while I was trying to reach my motobike outside the factory. 
Outside I was standing there, still Zs running at me, searching my motobike... 
But it was not there anymore. 
From the logs I saw it was still saved, but I couldn't see or find it on the map or with a marker. So at the end the endless stream of Zs got me killed. 

 

The quest itself was fun (when you know the POIs), but losing a motobike and getting killed because of this was not very funny at all..

Maybe it was because I made a copy of my savegame before and restored this save later...Don't know and this issues is already addressed in the bug forums.

Just wanted to say, that there that the difficulty curve for all quests does not match the Tier in some cases. Maybe it makes more sense to add a new T level, so T4, T5 and T6 are available. Or generally mark the quests of one tier by "internal" difficulty. e.g. T4 easy, medium, hard. And for medium and hard you can get one small "extra" reward, medium some chips, hard one extra loot item

 

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Skuriles (see edit history)

[PoppaSmirk]

45 minutes ago, Skuriles said:

I fully understand the OP regarding quest difficulty. 

Especially the night quests (and with feral sense on) you can enter one room, and have 10 Zs running at you. Even with some perks for agility/stealth. 

I always skip night quests and try to do the normal ones. Until T4 Quests for me the difficulty is fine. You have some rooms where you have to handle up to 10 or 15 Zs (maybe 2 or 3 ferals, but nothing which can not be blown up with a good weapon according to your perks). 

But with T5 quests the whole thing becomes really challenging. I think of the Shamway factory, where you enter the last room from the roof side. 
You will break through the floor and 20 Zs, including at least one radiated feral and several ferals come after you. You will be wrecked within seconds. Quest is gone after death, and that after you cleared 95% of the quest and spent up to a whole day doing this.

If you know all the POIs than you can avoid that "traps", but for new players this is really frustrating (and even for me with several 100 hrs played).

 

On my second try I made it (cleared the floor, and killed all Zs from above). Quest finished (took me the whole day without doing any looting). The night occured and thanks to feral sense I had 15-20 ferals running at me all the time while I was trying to reach my motobike outside the factory. 
Outside I was standing there, still Zs running at me, searching my motobike... 
But it was not there anymore. 
From the logs I saw it was still saved, but I couldn't see or find it on the map or with a marker. So at the end the endless stream of Zs got me killed. 

 

The quest itself was fun (when you know the POIs), but losing a motobike and getting killed because of this was not very funny at all..

Maybe it was because I made a copy of my savegame before and restored this save later...Don't know and this issues is already addressed in the bug forums.

Just wanted to say, that there that the difficulty curve for all quests does not match the Tier in some cases. Maybe it makes more sense to add a new T level, so T4, T5 and T6 are available. Or generally mark the quests of one tier by "internal" difficulty. e.g. T4 easy, medium, hard. And for medium and hard you can get one small "extra" reward, medium some chips, hard one extra loot item

 

 

I would just like to add something that might not have occurred to you.   once the zoms start going into a frenzy to get to you inside a building,   I have had one situation where I came out of a Quest POI to see a Zom wailing on My ride,  and as I raised My pistol to nail him with a shot,  a sudden ...'crash-boom"  as My 4x4 exploded.  everything gone.  In My situation I did at least have a bit of chassis left over,  but with a motorbike  I'm not sure how much if any debris would remain.   So it might not have been a game glitch that your vehicle was nowhere to be found,  just an idea.

[asmosnuts]

    Anyone will die on a regular basis if they go out underprepared and take on too much. Thats just common sense. Everyone who plays for a couple hours begins to develop strategy and a feel for where the more dangerous pois are.

Tackling bears and Z filled rooms while poorly armed and armoured is plainly just asking for trouble. Nights can be dangerous again and ferals etc appear from day 1.

[PoppaSmirk]

2 minutes ago, asmosnuts said:

    Anyone will die on a regular basis if they go out underprepared and take on too much. Thats just common sense. Everyone who plays for a couple hours begins to develop strategy and a feel for where the more dangerous pois are.

Tackling bears and Z filled rooms while poorly armed and armoured is plainly just asking for trouble. Nights can be dangerous again and ferals etc appear from day 1.

 

*chuckles*   Our little group still RE-Tells the story (maybe a bit too frequently)  Of how one of the women that plays with us often,  just had it in mind they HAD to have a motorcycle and the way to get the dollarinos to buy it,  was to "frame up" the side of the big Shamway building,  enter it on 4th Floor and easily 'snag" the best goodies from Up top.    The rest of Us declined with warnings of....  "Its Day 16,  you're not ready".   She went anyway,  a few minutes later,  screams come across from her microphone;  "Help Help  Helllp...can anybody come and get Me out of here??!!!!   I'm dying!"  Two of Us were in somewhat near proximity so We did start toward her,  but I watched as her health kept dipping...lower and lower.   Then......  XXXXXX has died.   A somewhat pouty voice came over my headset "I guess maybe I wasn't ready afterall"

 

We still ask her when We go past a Shamway building,  if she wants to go in.   She just replies..."Shuussssh Up!"  and keeps on going past it.   LOL

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Skuriles said:

I fully understand the OP regarding quest difficulty. 

Especially the night quests (and with feral sense on) you can enter one room, and have 10 Zs running at you. Even with some perks for agility/stealth. 

I always skip night quests and try to do the normal ones. Until T4 Quests for me the difficulty is fine. You have some rooms where you have to handle up to 10 or 15 Zs (maybe 2 or 3 ferals, but nothing which can not be blown up with a good weapon according to your perks). 

But with T5 quests the whole thing becomes really challenging. I think of the Shamway factory, where you enter the last room from the roof side. 
You will break through the floor and 20 Zs, including at least one radiated feral and several ferals come after you. You will be wrecked within seconds. Quest is gone after death, and that after you cleared 95% of the quest and spent up to a whole day doing this.

If you know all the POIs than you can avoid that "traps", but for new players this is really frustrating (and even for me with several 100 hrs played).

 

On my second try I made it (cleared the floor, and killed all Zs from above). Quest finished (took me the whole day without doing any looting). The night occured and thanks to feral sense I had 15-20 ferals running at me all the time while I was trying to reach my motobike outside the factory. 
Outside I was standing there, still Zs running at me, searching my motobike... 
But it was not there anymore. 
From the logs I saw it was still saved, but I couldn't see or find it on the map or with a marker. So at the end the endless stream of Zs got me killed. 

 

The quest itself was fun (when you know the POIs), but losing a motobike and getting killed because of this was not very funny at all..

Maybe it was because I made a copy of my savegame before and restored this save later...Don't know and this issues is already addressed in the bug forums.

Just wanted to say, that there that the difficulty curve for all quests does not match the Tier in some cases. Maybe it makes more sense to add a new T level, so T4, T5 and T6 are available. Or generally mark the quests of one tier by "internal" difficulty. e.g. T4 easy, medium, hard. And for medium and hard you can get one small "extra" reward, medium some chips, hard one extra loot item

 

 

 

Generally there may be buildings in the wrong category, but since T5 is the highest category, just consider it to be open-end.

 

Just like I noticed that T1 seems to have a few really trivial buildings that are harmless even for T1

 

[Urban Blackbear]

5 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Generally there may be buildings in the wrong category, but since T5 is the highest category, just consider it to be open-end.

 

Just like I noticed that T1 seems to have a few really trivial buildings that are harmless even for T1

 

 

Those are great. Quantity not quality. As in I can do 4-5 of those a day.

[Rince]

I would suggest updating the TIPS when loading. So new players know that being in a city in very dangerous. And that restore power quest needs extra preparation or they will have a bad time.

 

But the issue of the difficulty brings one of my favorite things about this game. The customization. You can tailor the game experience to whatever you want.

Too hard? Lower the difficulty. Still too hard? Make zombies walk all the time? Or raise the loot percentage. And so on.

 

That could be in a TIP too.

[Ramethzer0]

On 1/10/2022 at 4:40 AM, ungkor said:

For those of us that have been playing this game for years, we know what is "coming up" and we can plan for it accordingly. 

 

I feel like any new players are basically going to hate this game. 

 

But even if you are a experienced player, alpha 20 seems like a a build that is designed to just frustrate people.   I'm on day 15, I have a 9mm pistol with a mod, a pipe shotgun, and a pipe machine gun.   I have a few pieces of a armor. 

 

I start a "fix the generators quest".    I roll up in my bike, and I see a bear in the distance.   I shoot it the face with 2 clips of 9mm and it kills me.  Ok, great.  Maybe I missed a lot.  

 

I start the mission at 22:00 to start the generators, and am swarmed by, I am not kidding, 15 zeds, in the first 'trick room'.  

 

How the @%$# are you supposed to fight off 15 zombies at night with a 9mm and a few pipe guns?

 

There were years where 7d2d was my go to 'have a bit of fun' each night game.  I don't know that the intention is for this game, or where the devs want it to go, but for me right now, it just doesn't feel fun.  

 

Please bring the fun back.   

Have you tried not 'face tanking' a bear?

 

Have you considered running and kiting?

 

If the answer to both of these is 'no' or 'i don't want to' then congrats... the problem is not the game.  Also, it's been reported multiple times on social media that 7 Days to Die is one of the most hotly played games on Steam this first half of winter thanks to A20.

Edited January 13, 2022 by Ramethzer0 (see edit history)

[ungkor]

On 1/12/2022 at 3:42 AM, ungkor said:

That is all I had.  I guess bad luck looting.  

Thank you so much.  I have not had anyone recommend clearing cached files.  That would be super interesting if I was complaining about game mechanics that don't actually exist (due to caching some old settings).  

 

Just an update.  After clearing the files and re-downloading, I started a new game.  It feels much better now.   The balance is back.    The loot is better, and the zombies are more manageable.    No more demo's on day 2, no more rooms filled with 15 zombies early game. 

On 1/13/2022 at 10:04 AM, Ramethzer0 said:

Have you tried not 'face tanking' a bear?

 

Have you considered running and kiting?

 

If the answer to both of these is 'no' or 'i don't want to' then congrats... the problem is not the game.  Also, it's been reported multiple times on social media that 7 Days to Die is one of the most hotly played games on Steam this first half of winter thanks to A20.

 

I think something was broken, see my previous post.   Kiting a bear with a pistol is totally doable.  Something was wrong with my install.   

[Skuriles]

On 1/13/2022 at 2:46 PM, meganoth said:

 

Generally there may be buildings in the wrong category, but since T5 is the highest category, just consider it to be open-end.

 

Just like I noticed that T1 seems to have a few really trivial buildings that are harmless even for T1

 

I'm fine with "hard" POIs, especially if they're marked in the highest Tier.

Just wanted to say: Even if you are on a high game stage, with T5 armor and weapons and good, skilled perks: 
When you enter the top chamber of the Shamway, fall down in the middle of 20 or 30 Zs, including radiated ferals. You will be wrecked in any case. 
Okay, normally with that game stage you've already some experience with that and it is part of the game to learn, that T5 can kill you instantly. 
For new players it is frustrating. Drive to T5 quest (could be 2 or 3 km away from your base). Clear everything (takes around one hour in real).  Enter room, fall through the floor, get killed without any chance to do anything about it. Now you have to run back (takes another 20 minutes, try to get back your backpack, maybe get killed again because all of your "good stuff" is in your backpack or your vehicles). 
If you see it as a part of the game experience, it is fine. But in any case it will lead to some rage quits (as I did it myself several times 🙂 ). So you need to learn the POIs first, than check your game stage and then you can do it. 

 

The question is: Why should I do T5 quests at all, when I need already the best armor and weapons to get them clear??? => For me this is the central question. While doing T5 quests you can run through a lot of "easier" Tier quests or normal POIs, skill in Lucky looter or Trader perks and check all the traders for good stuff. 
On the other hand nobody MUST do T5 quests and can chose the other way when it fits him/herself better.

 

Maybe there could be some "hint" from the trader on T5 quests or something. 

 

[BarryTGash]

Have a back up set of gear in your vehicle, drop a sleeping bag down by it (replace your base bag when you get home).

[meganoth]

5 hours ago, Skuriles said:

I'm fine with "hard" POIs, especially if they're marked in the highest Tier.

Just wanted to say: Even if you are on a high game stage, with T5 armor and weapons and good, skilled perks: 
When you enter the top chamber of the Shamway, fall down in the middle of 20 or 30 Zs, including radiated ferals. You will be wrecked in any case. 
Okay, normally with that game stage you've already some experience with that and it is part of the game to learn, that T5 can kill you instantly. 
For new players it is frustrating. Drive to T5 quest (could be 2 or 3 km away from your base). Clear everything (takes around one hour in real).  Enter room, fall through the floor, get killed without any chance to do anything about it. Now you have to run back (takes another 20 minutes, try to get back your backpack, maybe get killed again because all of your "good stuff" is in your backpack or your vehicles). 
If you see it as a part of the game experience, it is fine. But in any case it will lead to some rage quits (as I did it myself several times 🙂 ). So you need to learn the POIs first, than check your game stage and then you can do it. 

 

The question is: Why should I do T5 quests at all, when I need already the best armor and weapons to get them clear??? => For me this is the central question. While doing T5 quests you can run through a lot of "easier" Tier quests or normal POIs, skill in Lucky looter or Trader perks and check all the traders for good stuff. 
On the other hand nobody MUST do T5 quests and can chose the other way when it fits him/herself better.

 

Maybe there could be some "hint" from the trader on T5 quests or something. 

 

 

Not sure if it is still the case, but in A18 and A19 only tier5 quests gave quality 6 tier 3 weapons and armor (aka the "legendary stuff") as quest reward.

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Roland]

10 hours ago, Skuriles said:

For new players it is frustrating.

 

Are you really still a new player by time you get to doing T5 quests? Seems like you should have the game sorted out pretty well by then. You will have done at least 40 quests by that time and probably a couple of horde nights. In my opinion, the only way a new player could be subjected to a T5 quest is if they are brand new and joining a team that is already at T5 quest level and their "initiation" is to bring him along....

Edited January 17, 2022 by Roland (see edit history)

[Error404]

I mean its kill or be killed, so as many people say u have give 100% of u to survive,  u cant go to army base in t-shirt and start punch them cause they will shot u in no time... ok in this case they will bite u 😁

But whst if u have a shot gun to make some head shots 😎 armor to be bullet(bite) proof and have a tactic that u can hit them but theyr cant reach u 🙃

Would u even bite a metal spoon 🤔  pretty much not recommend it