Zombie Apocolypse tomorrow, how many perk/skill/stat points do you have?

[Survior]

Some skills require a subjective analysis such as how lucky on loot and resource gathering so just make your best guess.

 

I guess the main point of this post is that I think the skill system that starts at zero in everything is inherently bad design and I much more prefer something like Fallout where you get  several points to build an entirely average character or someone who is say strong and dumb,  obviously "the balance" could easily be adjusted to such a change.

 

Having grown up healthy and active in the Midwest where it's cold as hell in winter and where we hunt in the fall, own guns and enjoy cooking in winter, in a town and time where every garage or basement had a small shop for woodworking or car repair,  I feel slightly more prepared for the end of civilization then most but not by a miles and miles. What about you guys? Can you shoot? Can you cook a piece of corn without a house fire? Could you hook up a generator or build a shelf? These to me seem like basic skills.

 

Seems like all the lumberjacks, construction workers, cops and military got zombiefied though, maybe.. just maybe the future belongs to zero stat man.

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Survior (see edit history)

[Viktoriusiii]

Never held a gun, kind of proficient with a bow (but don't know how to craft one or how to maintain one)
could kill an animal, would likely either starve to death or forced to do... other... work for food.
I do have awesome sneaking though...

everything else is basically at 0

So yea... somewhere in the range of 20-30 basically all in sneaking xD

[ricp]

I'm pretty outwardly bound, I spent years travelling around EU and North Africa on my own. I know how to get food and build a solid shelter. So in that sense I'm covered.

 

I've never owned a gun, never wanted to own a gun and have absolutely no idea why people get so gooey eyed about things intended to kill, but obviously when it comes down to a zombie apocalypse the context of owning one changes greatly. No idea if I'd be any good at it, but I reckon I'd pick it up. I think I'd favour sneak over attack though.

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by ricp (see edit history)

[Darthjake]

Bows and Crossbows, check.  Guns, check, Class 3 permit, no, but only because I keep my tinfoil hat on when I enter a guberment office.  Revenuers?  Kill em all.  Can Cook, check, can garden, (reluctantly, check)

 

Run, stealth, not so much.

 

Beat things with clubs, check, make concrete, check.  Tear @%$# down, check, put it back together?  eh...  Maybe.

Edited January 8, 2022 by Darthjake
missed a line. (see edit history)

[outhous]

31 minutes ago, Viktoriusiii said:

would likely either starve to death or forced to do... other... work for food.

Sounds like you will be working for SnowDog.

[Boidster]

5 hours ago, Survior said:

I guess the main point of this post is that I think the skill system that starts at zero in everything is inherently bad design and I much more prefer something like Fallout

 

That second thing you said is perfectly reasonable. The first part maybe not so much. Plenty of games start you with nearly nothing. You may not prefer it and I'm not arguing that you should prefer it, but the game is balanced (needs more, admittedly!) for starting at 4 points. It's not inherently bad design to do it that way.

 

You're not a helpless babe - you can pick up and use any tool, weapon, armor, or workstation in the game from Day 1 and, apparently, know how to build and upgrade complex structures with a rock tied to a stick. I know many people IRL - Midwesterners* even! - for whom that would not be the case. You can pretend that you're playing one of those skilless city-folk instead of a rugged Midwesterner. Or you're a rugged Midwesterner who got amnesia'd and dumped on the road by The Duke.

 

That said, my Zombie Armageddon Preparedness Peen is of average length. The military taught me some things which would be useful and I'm handy around the house and garage. No longer agile or particularly stealthy; those days are past. Have to rely on wits and tricking some city-slicker** to take point.

 

*For the non-Americans, the "Midwest" is roughly Ohio west to Kansas, and north to the Canadian border (some people have slightly different definitions). I live in this region. The myth we tell ourselves is that we are more rugged and hardy than most of the rest of the country.

 

 

**I grew up in a city of 1M people; I have no room to talk

[eXSe]

If forced to run, or fight melee in any but most favorable of situations I'm a dead duck.

 

Fired a gun for work certification and I did well, but those paper targets weren't coming to rip me limb from limb, so there's that.

 

Can cook, but know @%$# about wild plants or farming, so I'd be forced to sustain myself with meat or canned goods.

 

Fairly intelligent and I think I could learn stuff quickly if I had a source from where to learn, or if logic applies to said skill learning. Some trial and error would be necessary though.

 

Never built anything, so I'd need a prefab shelter to set myself up. Most likely would search the surrounding area of my town for a cave or something sturdy (with one obvious entrance and an oh @%$# chute) that's easy to fortify and defend.

[Pernicious]

Don't forget zero in the games isn't actually zero skill. For example, even with zero points in miner 69er and motherload, you're still getting a fair return on swinging your stone axe, and every weapon still works for you.

 

Me personally? I'm fairly competent in maintaining things. With power tools at least.  I can repair cars (including basic machining and jerry rigging if necessary), repair electronics, do most home maintenance. I know fairly advanced chemistry from my B Sc. At a firing range I'm fairly good. Terrible with a bow though and not particularly fit. Unless I banded up with others, I'd be dead before most my skills were useful.

[Lenny Lettuce Lips]

Been doing building maintenance work for a while now, so confident in maintaining whatever place I'd stay. Worked as a locksmith for a short stint and also was into the hobby for years (look into TOOOL if you're interested), got real dang good at that and still pick around for fun. Have some decent ham radios for comms, been doing that for a year and do my own basic auto repair. Overall handy. Oh, and not remotely recoil shy for... reasons. 

 

Would likely try to use those skills as an asset in a community before I'd go solo. Strength in numbers. 

[Boidster]

48 minutes ago, Lenny Lettuce Lips said:

got real dang good at that and still pick around for fun.

 

[Lenny Lettuce Lips]

1 hour ago, Boidster said:

 

 

[Ornias]

Old fat @%$#....that used to own a gun store. As long as I don't have to leave the porch I am golden. 

[Survior]

While there is some argument to made that zero perks doesn't mean skill less, zero in stats is described as various ways of pathetic in every attribute.  Every character starts mentally as an oblivious blockhead who is physically fragile, clumsy and weak. With three more ranks of degradation to go before they can be considered average.

 

8 hours ago, Boidster said:

*For the non-Americans, the "Midwest" is roughly Ohio west to Kansas, and north to the Canadian border (some people have slightly different definitions). I live in this region. The myth we tell ourselves is that we are more rugged and hardy than most of the rest of the country.

 

If it's true it's not a myth, only a very few cities in the Midwest are so big and obviously, sorry you are somewhat excluded to the culture based on that.  But, I've lived abroad for a long time and doubt kids get to spend a month or more in the woods every summer (scouts) or some time in a cabin in the winter so I'll always count my blessings I finished my education before the internet became an opioid to children.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Survior (see edit history)

[meganoth]

10 hours ago, Survior said:

While there is some argument to made that zero perks doesn't mean skill less, zero in stats is described as various ways of pathetic in every attribute.  Every character starts mentally as an oblivious blockhead who is physically fragile, clumsy and weak. With three more ranks of degradation to go before they can be considered average.

 

Give a lvl0 character an M60 and an unlimited supply of AP ammo and he can play on insane difficulty without a care in the world. Which doesn't sound clumsy to me. Sure, shooting depends a lot on player skill instead of some values in the game but it shows how that "pathetic" label breaks down with shooting already

 

I actually can't see how a lot of the perks can be compared to reality. How is better barter 0 or better barter 3 compared to my real skill at bargaining? In my country you don't haggle in the shops (like they would do in Turkey or arabian countries for example). If you haggle (usually when buying cars) it usually is about a discount that already is built into the price so you feel better after having spent a fortune.

 

Another example: Playing miner. The few times I helped friends or relatives with building their house I didn't even last a day shipping sand. How can that be compared to someone who is able to dig to bedrock in a single day at level 0 ?

 

10 hours ago, Survior said:

 

 

If it's true it's not a myth, only a very few cities in the Midwest are so big and obviously, sorry you are somewhat excluded to the culture based on that.  But, I've lived abroad for a long time and doubt kids get to spend a month or more in the woods every summer (scouts) or some time in a cabin in the winter so I'll always count my blessings I finished my education before the internet became an opioid to children.

 

[Crater Creator]

To put it simply, the story can dictate what sort of skills the player character should have at the start of the game before they've done any progression.  If you're playing as, say, Lara Croft in the 2013 Tomb Raider reboot, then you're playing an inexperienced archeologist grad, who's thrust into a traumatic situation and immediately out of your element.  If you're playing as, say, Duke Nukem, then you're playing a badass, who's totally ready for the mayhem to come going into the first level.

 

Right now we don't have that player backstory.  The Duke left you naked in the woods with a can of chili... that's about all you know.  So you're a blank slate.  It's only natural to imprint our own life experience to fill that void.  But we also expect the game to have a story eventually, and one thing that story could do is set the baseline for what this player character should be capable of on day one.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Crater Creator (see edit history)

[Roland]

Even though zero is the starting point it obviously doesn’t reflect zero skills. Our characters have quite a few abilities without spending any points at all. I often don’t spend any points for the first 7 days until after the first blood moon and survive just fine (probably better than I personally would in rl). Once I’ve found some schematics and a few books, I feel like I can choose where to start putting points into the areas RNG dictated. 
 

Point is that your poll doesn’t accurately reflect the game state on Day 1 and you are grossly understating the inherent abilities of our Day 1 characters.  There are some weird things like being able to construct pipe weapons but not knowing how to cook bacon and eggs but it is clear we start the game with pretty decent survival skills already in place and then develop more specialist skills and improve what we can already do as we play. 
 

Personally, I like the current method of creating your character as you play much better than creating a character as part of a point spending menu before you play. 

[BFT2020]

If the zombie apocalypse were to occur tomorrow, I would have to start trading my engineering skills for a spot in some survivors colony.  While I got a lot of skills that would allow me to survive on my own or with others, I am a realist.  With the breakdown of nations / states / economies/ manufacturing, I figure I would be fine for a few years.  However, once I run out of medical supplies to treat my eyes, I wouldn't be much use with a weapon.  So I better quickly establish that my engineering skills are needed 🙂

[Roland]

14 hours ago, Survior said:

While there is some argument to made that zero perks doesn't mean skill less, zero in stats is described as various ways of pathetic in every attribute.  Every character starts mentally as an oblivious blockhead who is physically fragile, clumsy and weak. With three more ranks of degradation to go before they can be considered average.

There’s a lot more than just “some argument”. There are feats of strength, fortitude, agility, and intellect that our characters can do on day one with zero skill points spent that even the most rugged midwesterner would be hard pressed to match. 
 

While you completely overstated our weakness as zero skill characters, the in-game descriptions hugely overstate them for the sake of humor. There is a huge tongue in a gargantuan cheek in all the text, dialogue, and names and signs throughout the world. You can’t take the humorous descriptions regarding our abilities as the accurate truth in the face of our actual unperked gameplay abilities that are just self-evidently true without any need for “some argument”. 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Roland (see edit history)

[Rotor]

3 hours ago, Roland said:

 There are some weird things like being able to construct pipe weapons but not knowing how to cook bacon and eggs

This I agree.

 

In my field I am pretty well rounded how things work in RL.  So, could I build a pipe pistol?  Probably not, but I can gurantee you I can build a "bang stick" fairly quick.

 

As far as the comment on the M60, is fairly easy to handle...as long as you are not 50 pounds.  Now if you have a malfunction, getting out of it is not that easy.  But for the most part is point and click.

 

Can I build a forge?  Yes, the first couple might be crap, but I have the concept in my brain, but again that is the beauty of my job skills.

 

At over fifty years of age, I can still run, although my knees would not like it.  Not sure anything over a couple of miles, I am probably done if I dont have some melee weapons with me or the sure firearm.

 

Some of my survival skills came from the military, never had to do the advance stuff, but I have the basics.

 

I hate gardening, but if I have the seeds think I can do it.

 

Just started practicing with bow....because it one of the easiest weapons to make and be fairly effective in a STHF.  Arrows are much harder to make, effectively.  

 

All that to say, I dont mind how the game starts, but some of the gates are weird as heck.

 

P.s. Every house, hut, teepee, palm tree shack in the world probably has a pot in it, most of them capable of handling a wood fire pit :P.

 

Ps.s. Forgot, Cro-Magnon figured out early on how to put meat on a stick and the concept of a grill wasnt even a dream.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Rotor (see edit history)

[Maharin]

I spent 30+ years in IT solving all kinds of problems (the most recent 18+ for a small-ish manufacturing company), much of which had nothing to do with computers.  I've spent the last several years as a farmer/homesteader and have learned a lot of skills good for short to long term survival.  I'm also in the best physical condition I've been in decades.  I own several guns with 1000's of rounds of ammo and I'm a decent to good shot with all of them.

 

I've built entire buildings from lumber and screws/nails, complete with electrical wiring and some other things like plumbing and insulation.  I'm also very resourceful and can MacGyver a whole lot of stuff for real and in nearly real-time.  I'm not really trained as a fighter or a killer, though, so that would likely work against me.  I'm comfortable leading or following so I'm sure I could find my place in the apocalypse.

 

So I gave myself 31-40 points but it could be higher, depending on if there is a curve to this scale.  As others have said, though, this game's skills don't translate well to real life unless you assume the story includes many of the basics leading up to the start of the game.  In other words, there really isn't a skill you start off with as completely unskilled.  I know a lot of people that wouldn't be able to dig much of a hole or break up stone with even steel tools at their disposal, for instance.

[Pernicious]

4 hours ago, Roland said:

 There are some weird things like being able to construct pipe weapons but not knowing how to cook bacon and eggs but it is clear we start the game with pretty decent survival skills already in place and then develop more specialist skills and improve what we can already do as we play. 

 

 

Really frank admission - Probably get me scoffed at by Texans and other Americans that take pride in smoking meats. I have no idea how to make bacon and I have basic knowledge of how to smoke meats. I suspect it has to do with the cut of meat to start off with - pork belly? Then thinly slice, salt, and very low heat for a day or so? I could google now, but not in the apocalypse. {Reminder to self, download Wikipedia onto multiple flash drives to leave in bug out bag)

 

Making bacon out of anything other than a pig? I've seen turkey bacon and facon, but even further removed.

 

 

[Crater Creator]

13 hours ago, Roland said:

Even though zero is the starting point it obviously doesn’t reflect zero skills. Our characters have quite a few abilities without spending any points at all. I often don’t spend any points for the first 7 days until after the first blood moon and survive just fine (probably better than I personally would in rl). Once I’ve found some schematics and a few books, I feel like I can choose where to start putting points into the areas RNG dictated. 
 

Point is that your poll doesn’t accurately reflect the game state on Day 1 and you are grossly understating the inherent abilities of our Day 1 characters.  There are some weird things like being able to construct pipe weapons but not knowing how to cook bacon and eggs but it is clear we start the game with pretty decent survival skills already in place and then develop more specialist skills and improve what we can already do as we play. 
 

Personally, I like the current method of creating your character as you play much better than creating a character as part of a point spending menu before you play. 

 

I'm not sure at this point whether I'd prefer spending skill points up front instead of as I go.  I know I've played RPGs where you do it up front, and it's made me anxious because I don't know how the game plays yet or how often a given skill will actually be useful.

 

On the other hand, in 7DtD I tend to save skill points until the point where I could greatly benefit from them.  E.g., I'm stranded with multiple injuries and not the right meds, so it's time to unlock/rank up in Healing Factor.  Or I'm about to cut down the forest I planted, so it's time to unlock/rank up in Mother Lode.

 

I find that when I do this, I tend to mostly rely on the same skills every time.  And I consider myself relatively omnivorous by nature: I try not to have one playstyle, and there are few parts of the game I'll outright reject and ignore.  Then when it's time to consciously choose where to specialize, only a few attributes/tracks make sense, based on where I've already invested.

 

If my character had more, well, character from the start, it would perhaps tilt me towards sticking with the character build that matches my character's 'destiny' (which in this scenario, to be clear, I chose for them up front).  I wouldn't try to turn my mage into a warrior, because his day-zero stats make him inherently suited to be a mage and inherently unsuited to being a warrior.

[PoppaSmirk]

Oh,  this is an interesting topic.   I have had years as a tabletop rpg gamer,  and about 14-15 years ago We did a home brew roleplay of a mixed/zombie/alien/mutated animal/fall of civilsation/apocalypse,  you know,  just your average run-of-the-mill large meteor strikes earth,  shockwave causes enough dust and debris to go into the atmosphere  to give a short term nuclear winter effect,  meteor held some strange alien form of life that was scattered into a zillion tiny pieces by the crash,  causing strange mutations and zombie-like infections in humans,  but the hook of the Roleplay was that each of the players,  was going to play....themselves.  The Game master gave us two weeks to write up ourselves as a roleplay character,  and the week before play started,  we all met,  and each had to describe what and why they gave themselves certain stats and skills,  the Player got to keep those if the rest of the group agreed that the person did possess such skills in real life.  I grew up in a military family so I did have skills in gun use,  and as a member of the SCA,  blade skills and armor-making.   Back then I was pretty agile,  ran cross country track and had an interest in Doomsday Prepping,  so I know how to can food,  dress and cure animal meat and hide, so I felt competent.   Right out of school My first job was as a Medical Tech, so I had/have basic medical skills *grin*  Oh how 15 years changes us.   LOL   I still have skills with guns and blades, the running would be greatly impaired after a knee surgery 4 years ago, which also has resulted in some pounds around the waist.  I really prefer to not kill cute animals but I do join in with friends every few years and take down a deer using a bow, to augment the freezer with food  (and I do enjoy venison,  just not all the time).  Not a member of the SCA anymore so its probably been 8 years since I engaged in melee combat, and I gave up boxing shortly after finishing school,  but those basics remain.  I still keep a bugout bag here in My home,  with survival essentials, crank radio, crank flashlight, lifestraw, 3 collapsible containers to store 5 gallons of water each, swiss army knife, 3 other small blades,  a machete, firestarter kit. bandages, antiseptic,  and several bottles of hand sanitiser and much more.  Soooooooooooooo...umm...I might be 'slightly' ready for a zombie apocalypse.  *chuckles*