Please stop trying to tell us how to play

[PoloPoPo]

"Fear of unknown", as meganoth called it, is a pretty good definition of horror I think. The more you play the more you know the less is unknown and therefore the horror gets less and less as well. No music, weather effects or whatever can compensate that.

 

I remember my first playthrough as well. First ingame days, everyday at 22:00, when I sat without any shelter outside under a bush, not a single blink, listening to the Zs nearby in complete darkness (when nighttime was actually dark). Now that was horror! Resulting from me being a noob and everything being new and frightening.

[Matt115]

6 minutes ago, Urban Blackbear said:

 

 

 

They actually patched grinding your weapon skills out of Valheim. You can't attack rocks anymore and raise your weapon skills. Everything is now solid work to grind out. I don't mind a penalty for dying but when its 5% off 5 random skills it gets to be discouraging. If you have skills at 100 you can potentially lose 5 points off of them. It takes hours upon hours to get that back. Especially from a game that actively tries to kill you at times. I once had my base attacked 6 times in a row in one play session by trolls.

I mean - they want to force you to avoid death no matter how- because swamp could be "too fast" to get iron and ancient wood. Well i have a savehouse in very peacefull place- only greydwarfs attack sometimes but it  so near water from both sides and  a lot of spikes

3 minutes ago, PoloPoPo said:

"Fear of unknown", as meganoth called it, is a pretty good definition of horror I think. The more you play the more you know the less is unknown and therefore the horror gets less and less as well. No music, weather effects or whatever can compensate that.

 

I remember my first playthrough as well. First ingame days, everyday at 22:00, when I sat without any shelter outside under a bush, not a single blink, listening to the Zs nearby in complete darkness (when nighttime was actually dark). Now that was horror! Resulting from me being a noob and everything being new and frightening.

You have NZA zombie on avk so i think you will know what i mean - NZA 1,2,3 have soo good horror setting - corpses everywhere , blood, demonic dolls, screams, laugh . Maybe this not scary but it soo good horror setting

[Darklegend222]

14 minutes ago, PoloPoPo said:

"Fear of unknown", as meganoth called it, is a pretty good definition of horror I think. The more you play the more you know the less is unknown and therefore the horror gets less and less as well. No music, weather effects or whatever can compensate that.

 

I remember my first playthrough as well. First ingame days, everyday at 22:00, when I sat without any shelter outside under a bush, not a single blink, listening to the Zs nearby in complete darkness (when nighttime was actually dark). Now that was horror! Resulting from me being a noob and everything being new and frightening.

I'll piggyback off ya! Back when I first played a15, i dug a hole inside of a house and sealed the top. I did not dare leave my hole.

 

Then in A19.6 I decided walking zombies was enough and it was time to face my fears directly. Ended up crouching everywhere at night literally horrified of zombies.

 

Now? I just run around at night fighting sprinting zombies head on. Is that a bear? Do i have ammo? Let's take it! I have nothing to worry about anymore. Insane difficulty on default settings with some to make it harder, is a walk in the park. Provided that park doesn't have murders.. or coyotes.. or, well anything bad.

[meganoth]

41 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

I know it will not change their decisions  but... still doesn't change anything. Terraria - was in early access  and have this same setting, this same bannerlord or die young. That's true there many form of horrors and i agree with you but this change is big enough be seen right? 

And about last one - you choose the most "extreme" examples XD  child zombies was example what cannot be changed no matter what because law and about guns-

 

So then why did YOU bring up "child zombies" again? It was you who talked about them in the post I quoted.  

 

41 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

i think change models of them woudn't be so big deal if a lot people would complain about that.  They want to change  armor system right? But i think  more people prefer how they looks like ( not work, i think most people want to simplifited clothes system but keeping "orginal" style i mean how them looks - normal shoes pants thirt not clown suit) so i think if most people will say "geek outfit looks terrible" they will  probably scrap this.

 

Most likely they will still add the new clothes system if they have time, but if enough people protest after trying it out that they can't individualize their toon anymore they will then adapt the feature. Maybe add mods that change the outfit, ...

 

41 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

And i was writing about  everywhere  about what in my opinion go wrong because... maybe it can influence on another their game right?  So in theory- let say - if people would  talk a lot about blocking melee attack devs can notice this but it is too late to add this to 7dtd. But they can concider  adding this in their next game. So if people would talk about lack of horror element in 7dtd they maybe will more focus about this in the future. So  yes i accepted how 7dtd looks like but what i'm doing can infulence in the future

 

In theory they might listen if 100 players said the same thing 1 time, I doubt they will listen when 1 player says the same thing 100 times. And clearly if they were agreeing with you that there was something wrong about 7D2D then they would probably change it in 7D2D as well, not only in the next game.

 

Just as an example, removing the drone is absolutely trivial to do. If they were agreeing with you they would not wait for 7D2D 2 to implement that change they would do it immediately.

 

 

[DiegoLBC1]

Yesterday, after doing the final mission on an A19 server, I decided to play again on A20.

 

Today! Come on:

- Clean Installation as recommended

- 10K RWG

- All Default Configuration

- Feral sense off

- CM/DM off (obviously)

 

Yes, this is just my first day (again) on A20, and the start is being the same as every other day I started on A19. I didn't notice ANY difference in that. There is so much talk about the game being more difficult that I have locked myself in the house and am afraid to go looting at night. When day dawns I will clean the other rooms of the place to make my residence effective, and then I will go out in search of food. 

PS: I started a new game yesterday. I found a T3 pipe truncheon and a  T2 Stone Axe in the first day, before nightfall. But I activated Creative Menu to see some new stuff, so I decided to delete the savegame and restart correctly. Anyway, I noticed good loots too, in sufficient quantities, considering that's a  "new game start". I haven't assigned any skills yet

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by DiegoLBC1 (see edit history)

[Viktoriusiii]

I do not think that horror goes away with play time. It shrinks, but going away... well maybe I am just a scardicat.
I can watch playthroughs of certain horror games over and over and still be scared @%$#less.
Tbc it is a different kind of game (the powerless one) but still.
And I was actually scared n the first night outside as well, because of the sounds.

And I am not scared of dying, but simply because the situation is scary. But as I said... I am easily scared  (which is even more condemning, if I say it is not a horror game anymore :D)

[meganoth]

47 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Damn i think meganoth you never hear witch or tank theme from l4d2 XD this is stressful as hell 😂

 

I got both L4D in my steam library but don't seem to have even installed them at any time. Most of the games you usually mention I don't even own. In my mind I usually have to substitute those parts of your posts with "mumble mumble horror shooter mumble" 😁

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Boidster]

22 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

witch or tank theme from l4d2 XD this is stressful as hell 😂

 

Oooh, look at Mr. Fancy Pants with a "theme"! LUXURY! When I was younger* all we had to scare the crap out of us was 'SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS'

 

 

*By which I mean "mid 40's"

[meganoth]

15 minutes ago, Viktoriusiii said:

I do not think that horror goes away with play time. It shrinks, but going away... well maybe I am just a scardicat.
I can watch playthroughs of certain horror games over and over and still be scared @%$#less.
Tbc it is a different kind of game (the powerless one) but still.
And I was actually scared n the first night outside as well, because of the sounds.

And I am not scared of dying, but simply because the situation is scary. But as I said... I am easily scared  (which is even more condemning, if I say it is not a horror game anymore :D)

 

"Fear of Dying" may not be the best word for it. But when you watch playthroughs over and over it is the helplessness that makes you fear any surprise contact as it means you are fodder for an horificly deformed monster (there is often disgust mixed into the horror to make it more effective). It isn't the unknown, you know very well what to expect.

 

I may be relatively blunted and don't feel much horror, so read my dry analysis with a grain of salt 😉

 

 

[Roland]

1 hour ago, PoloPoPo said:

"Fear of unknown", as meganoth called it, is a pretty good definition of horror I think. The more you play the more you know the less is unknown and therefore the horror gets less and less as well. No music, weather effects or whatever can compensate that.

 

I feel this sense of horror and fear whenever a POI requires that I drop down through a hole into a room below without being able to see what enemies are there. That horror is much greater during the first week than it is later once I have better weapons and armor because during the first week I really don't know if jumping into that room will be my death or not. Later I am pretty certain I can survive whatever might be in that room so there is not much fear.

 

I will say that just the other day I was in the wasteland and I walked out of a POI I had just finished and I heard a really loud wind noise and it totally freaked me out. I ran around looking in all directions ready to die and my heart pumping and then realized it was just the wind. Bravo, TFP. I don't expect to be freaked out by that sound going forward but it was a fun moment.

[Matt115]

10 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

So then why did YOU bring up "child zombies" again? It was you who talked about them in the post I quoted.  

 

 

Most likely they will still add the new clothes system if they have time, but if enough people protest after trying it out that they can't individualize their toon anymore they will then adapt the feature. Maybe add mods that change the outfit, ...

 

 

In theory they might listen if 100 players said the same thing 1 time, I doubt they will listen when 1 player says the same thing 100 times. And clearly if they were agreeing with you that there was something wrong about 7D2D then they would probably change it in 7D2D as well, not only in the next game.

 

Just as an example, removing the drone is absolutely trivial to do. If they were agreeing with you they would not wait for 7D2D 2 to implement that change they would do it immediately.

 

 

1. Yes because i give example what cannot be added for 100% ( except by "offical mod" in skyrim style) -  i think for example LBD could be still considered somehow  like - after looting 100 cars you will get +10% chance to find car engine,  after kiling 50 dogs you will get more animal fat. This can be still added. But it can be considered in 7dtd2 or dunno medival 7dtd 

 

2. Yeah - and from gameplay point of view sets are great  but how for example geek set looks like is just bad and i think some people will agree about that. So i suggest keep how clothes looks like now.

 

3. Well so i'm trying to "make discusion"  - if people like some thing  or not. If a lot of people will agree maybe TFP will consider to not adding them in sequel. removing drone would be trivial that correct- but if they wanted to keep "setting" in this same style new guns models would go to bin too etc. So better option is left as it works to not waste time money etc. but they can consider if people want to keep "more realisitic " setting in days gone or tlou style or prefer keep this setting or change totaly difrrent. People are talking about changes in poi because to keep balance, change in gun dmg etc. I'm focusing on setting lore and style.  Honestly - we even don't know if they want to do in the future - something similar to 7dtd or dunno RTS or tyccon so maybe my "points" are pointless but who knows

52 minutes ago, Boidster said:

 

Oooh, look at Mr. Fancy Pants with a "theme"! LUXURY! When I was younger* all we had to scare the crap out of us was 'SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS'

 

 

*By which I mean "mid 40's"

Yep even creeper can be scary XD but horror =/= scary  for me

4 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

I feel this sense of horror and fear whenever a POI requires that I drop down through a hole into a room below without being able to see what enemies are there. That horror is much greater during the first week than it is later once I have better weapons and armor because during the first week I really don't know if jumping into that room will be my death or not. Later I am pretty certain I can survive whatever might be in that room so there is not much fear.

 

I will say that just the other day I was in the wasteland and I walked out of a POI I had just finished and I heard a really loud wind noise and it totally freaked me out. I ran around looking in all directions ready to die and my heart pumping and then realized it was just the wind. Bravo, TFP. I don't expect to be freaked out by that sound going forward but it was a fun moment.

@Roland you mean by horror scary ? If yes this change a lot because for me game with horror setting don't have to be scare to be good- frankestein new army , nza or dying light are for me good example about that

[Roland]

10 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

@Roland you mean by horror scary ? If yes this change a lot because for me game with horror setting don't have to be scare to be good- frankestein new army , nza or dying light are for me good example about that

 

Sounds to me like "horror" is going to be nailed down and quantified about as well as "fun" has been in these forums.

 

Uh....Don't tell me how to have horror in my own game....

[Urban Blackbear]

My first experience with 7DTD was my friends giving me a wooden club in A15 and telling me to go loot a house. I stepped up to the door and fell through the floor into the basement that had a zombie dog. I've been afraid of doors ever since. 😢

[Matt115]

5 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

Sounds to me like "horror" is going to be nailed down and quantified about as well as "fun" has been in these forums.

 

Uh....Don't tell me how to have horror in my own game....

That's is not my point XD 

To make this simple - i mean by horror- bloody, a lot of corpses, gore something disgusting not neccesary scary so i figured out i can be missunderstanded XD

[meganoth]

7 hours ago, Matt115 said:

3. Well so i'm trying to "make discusion"  - if people like some thing  or not. If a lot of people will agree maybe TFP will consider to not adding them in sequel. removing drone would be trivial that correct- but if they wanted to keep "setting" in this same style new guns models would go to bin too etc. So better option is left as it works to not waste time money etc. but they can consider if people want to keep "more realisitic " setting in days gone or tlou style or prefer keep this setting or change totaly difrrent. People are talking about changes in poi because to keep balance, change in gun dmg etc. I'm focusing on setting lore and style.  Honestly - we even don't know if they want to do in the future - something similar to 7dtd or dunno RTS or tyccon so maybe my "points" are pointless but who knows

 

Probably 90% of the forum posters are the same 50 people all year through. If they don't shout "great idea" the first 3 times you post something it is likely they will not react with enthusiasm the next 10 times as well. Sometimes you just have to accept that a wonderful idea you have is just not the right idea for a specific crowd.

 

I posted an idea in the dev diary 2 weeks ago to see how it would be received. I got 8 likes, 1 dislike and 2-3 people posting to say they don't like the idea and why. I would translate that to a mixed reaction. I won't ask again since I'm sure to get much the same reaction again if I did. I might make a mod for it eventually but I don't think this idea will be adopted by TFP because of forum support.

 

[Roland]

8 hours ago, Matt115 said:

That's is not my point XD 

To make this simple - i mean by horror- bloody, a lot of corpses, gore something disgusting not neccesary scary so i figured out i can be missunderstanded XD

 

Well the game is more gory and gross than it ever has been. Your video you showed earlier had zero gore and about two distant wandering zombies in about 10 minutes of moving through different biomes and that was your showcase video on horror.

 

There are currently in A20 more bloody carcasses lying around as decorations, more gibs and blood spurts when hitting zombies, and they are currently at work adding in a braining head wound that exposes the gray matter and causes the eye to bulge out in disturbing Glennian fashion. 

 

Your posts say the game has been moving away from horror and yet by your own definition above... the game has never been as horrific in the past as it is right now.

[Jason Tamosiunis]

10 hours ago, Boidster said:

 

Oooh, look at Mr. Fancy Pants with a "theme"! LUXURY! When I was younger* all we had to scare the crap out of us was 'SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS'

 

 

*By which I mean "mid 40's"

yep the super ninja that went to ninja school walk past a block no creeper 1 second after creeper goes boom scared the crap out of me more than i care to admit XD

[Matt115]

5 hours ago, Roland said:

 

Well the game is more gory and gross than it ever has been. Your video you showed earlier had zero gore and about two distant wandering zombies in about 10 minutes of moving through different biomes and that was your showcase video on horror.

 

There are currently in A20 more bloody carcasses lying around as decorations, more gibs and blood spurts when hitting zombies, and they are currently at work adding in a braining head wound that exposes the gray matter and causes the eye to bulge out in disturbing Glennian fashion. 

 

Your posts say the game has been moving away from horror and yet by your own definition above... the game has never been as horrific in the past as it is right now.

This is not my video btw i was thinking about ambient only- in nza or painkiller you have randoms screams, hiting etc .  And ... yes and no -  i can't find how this first corpse was looking like anywhere - it was before smooth terrain but it was quiet common  near cars so i think number of corpses was bigger, well in some POI you can find a lot of corpses like bear cave under buidling but there is lack of random corpses on streets. Well this is small detail and i hope it will be added. Yep gibs are good change and it's rly cool.

 

Em yeah and no? yes because gibs but in my opinion number of corpses is smaller that in old alphas because is more things - it would be quiet stupid but  maybe this example can work- 10 corpses is more that 2 but if you put 2 corpses in small house number of it will be big but 10 corpses in 10 floor building will give you make number of corpses small. So  i think just adding random human corpses ( i know about animal remains ) would fix this problem

6 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Probably 90% of the forum posters are the same 50 people all year through. If they don't shout "great idea" the first 3 times you post something it is likely they will not react with enthusiasm the next 10 times as well. Sometimes you just have to accept that a wonderful idea you have is just not the right idea for a specific crowd.

 

I posted an idea in the dev diary 2 weeks ago to see how it would be received. I got 8 likes, 1 dislike and 2-3 people posting to say they don't like the idea and why. I would translate that to a mixed reaction. I won't ask again since I'm sure to get much the same reaction again if I did. I might make a mod for it eventually but I don't think this idea will be adopted by TFP because of forum support.

 

What is your idea? i don't rembere this but i'm  interested 

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

What is your idea? i don't rembere this but i'm  interested 

 

Link to the post: https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/22366-alpha-20-dev-diary/?do=findComment&comment=463253

 

[Vaeliorin]

31 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Link to the post: https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/22366-alpha-20-dev-diary/?do=findComment&comment=463253

 

If you'll recall, that's how A16 worked.  It kinda sucked for me because in hundreds of hours of A16, I only found the sniper schematic once, and snipers are my favorite weapon in games (I usually roll sniper/assault rifle combo in most games where it's an option.)

 

Anyway...I never really found this to be a horror game, and honestly, I don't really want it to be.  I wouldn't have bought it if it were actually a horror game, as I don't care for horror (movies or games).  Yeah, the first in game week was a bit spooky/tense, but not really horror.  Then again, I can't help but think that I'm a bit of an oddball on this forum, in that I don't even care that this is a zombie game (I've never seen The Walking Dead and have only seen 2 zombie movies - Night of the Living Dead and Zombieland), and truth be told would probably prefer something else (I've been dreaming about a 7DTD-like set in the Remnant: From The Ashes setting on Earth, where you're the head of a Ward and have to collect people with useful skills as well as materials/recipes/etc., build out your base, protect it from Root attacks, etc.)

 

So yeah...no need for more horror.  I am a bit annoyed at the nerfed book cases, which is kind of forcing me to do more looting than I really want to (though I haven't been in a POI in about 9 days in my current playthrough...been mining and working on my new base) but other than that I don't feel forced to play a certain way.  Granted, I'm not one who ever really used any of the things that have been nerfed over the years (I did do a bedrock base once, but not for horde night, just so I didn't have to deal with screamers.)

[BarryTGash]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

Link to the post: https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/22366-alpha-20-dev-diary/?do=findComment&comment=463253

 

 

I'd use that mod but might be too much for the base game, unless it could be added to options?

[RipClaw]

11 minutes ago, Vaeliorin said:

Anyway...I never really found this to be a horror game, and honestly, I don't really want it to be. 

I agree. I also do not see it horror game or at least not as pure horror game.

 

Horror games for me are those games where you are walking through a dark room and a monster suddenly grabs you. These games live on jumpscares but when the monster has killed you a dozen times you don't get scared anymore.

 

I like something like Subnautica much better. Someone once described it as terror. Instead of a monster lurking around every corner, the player only has the feeling that a monster could be lurking around every corner. The perceived threat is greater than the actual threat.

 

Also, many of the so-called horror elements in this game are unintentionally funny. The bulging eyes, for example, look like googly eyes. And who hasn't laughed at the ragdoll when a zombie lands on the toilet or two zombies in a clearly ambiguous pose?

 

[meganoth]

22 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

I agree. I also do not see it horror game or at least not as pure horror game.

 

Horror games for me are those games where you are walking through a dark room and a monster suddenly grabs you. These games live on jumpscares but when the monster has killed you a dozen times you don't get scared anymore.

 

I like something like Subnautica much better. Someone once described it as terror. Instead of a monster lurking around every corner, the player only has the feeling that a monster could be lurking around every corner. The perceived threat is greater than the actual threat.

 

Also, many of the so-called horror elements in this game are unintentionally funny. The bulging eyes, for example, look like googly eyes. And who hasn't laughed at the ragdoll when a zombie lands on the toilet or two zombies in a clearly ambiguous pose?

 

 

One of the best visual jokes is zombie steve's(?) head jumping up from the torso when you land a critical on the head (at least with a knife). In all seriousness I say: Thank you TFP for that animation.

 

 

[BFT2020]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

One of the best visual jokes is zombie steve's(?) head jumping up from the torso when you land a critical on the head (at least with a knife). In all seriousness I say: Thank you TFP for that animation.

 

 

 

The first time that happened ot me  I wished you could smack it with a baseball bat  😁

[Matt115]

4 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Link to the post: https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/22366-alpha-20-dev-diary/?do=findComment&comment=463253

 

Well - i think repair kits works good - well i think m60 have just bad durability XD. And using weapons without perk is pointeless in melee weapon category- i use only hammer + knife as tool. So from my point of view is good as it works.