A few A20 Stories

[Roland]

Last night I thought I would try out a random world of A20. I chose to play Warrior difficulty, zombies jog during the day, Feral Sense activated, and 40 minute days. Everything else was default. I spawned in near a trader compound and so knocked out my opening quest in no time and took a buried treasure quest. As I traveled to the marker I noticed that zombies started populating the world and all of them zeroed in on me.  By time I got to the quest location I had a mini horde tagging along that I needed to clear out before I could start digging. 

 

I got going on the finding the buried supplies but was constantly interrupted by wilderness spawns that now would jog over to me as soon as they came into the world. Worse...you now fail the quest if you leave the area and it is a pretty tight area to scramble around trying to kill without getting hit back with that starter club. Finally, they seemed to stop so I got back to digging and let old habits take over. I let myself get into that sweet rhythm of digging instead of coming up and looking around every couple of minutes. I heard a noise and whipped around just as three zombies jumped down into the trench with me. I tried my best to knock them down and run but they had me cornered and I died.

 

Lesson learned: A20 with feral sense is like classic 7 Days to Die when everything just GPSed to you. Back to the days of paranoia!

 

Tonight I spawned anew with a firm commitment that I was going to be ultra aware of my environment and not let anything eat me within the first three days. I almost returned zombie speed back to walk but my pride wouldn't let me. The extra bit of speed that jogging gives is very deceptive. You see that dude in the distance and think you have time to look in the car but he is coming up faster than you think he is..... scary.

 

Anyway, this time I spawned near a full fledged town with a well defined residential area. I decided to skip the tutorial and just start exploring a POI I had never seen before. Nearby, was a culvert with a dead body and duffel bag and when I opened the duffel inside was a pipe machine gun! Awesome!! After a year of blunderbusses and stone weapons, this was like finding the holy grail. Oh man it sucked as a machine gun but I figured it would be good for any spray and pray situation I might find myself in. I took some time after all before going in to the house to quickly do the opening quest up to the point of making a bow and plenty of arrows. So armed with my stone axe, a club, a bow and about 40 arrows, and a pipe machine gun with 18 rounds I went in through a 1 1/2 block opening that I needed to duck through to enter. As I walked forward a zombie fell through the ceiling and ragdolled hilariously onto the floor. Even a year later since they put that in it still never gets old...haha. I shot a couple arrows at it and then hit it with my club before backing out of the opening. It did some dumb typical AI reaction of walking to a nearby window inside and started bashing to get out. I ducked back into the house and hit it from behind and it whipped around and smacked me good so I backed out of the house.  IT BENT DOWN AND CRAWLED THROUGH THE OPENING AFTER ME! It was super creepy seeing it do that. However, we were outside now with plenty of room so it had no chance.

 

I explored the new place and it was pretty cool going through somewhere new. The way to the treasure room was cool but no spoilers and when I got into it there were two zombies inside that I hadn't seen. They killed me. So much for the 3-day goal. I spawned in at the other end of the city which was a commercial district that looked....AMAZING. It had those awesome intersections that we've seen and more that I won't spoil but I will say that the commercial districts of cities are just fantastic. I wanted to stay and explore a bit but I wanted my pack and the loot from that room and the death of those two zeds that griefed my goal. 

 

By time I got back to the house it was getting late and yet again thanks to Feral Sense I had tag alongs. I just ignored them and ran into the house and back to the loot room. I was able to off the two spoilers and get my gear and loot the room but I heard several zombies all around banging on walls trying to get to where they could sense me. It was a very nostalgic feeling right then that I haven't felt for quite awhile in this game. Night fell so I worked my way up to the roof and just listened to all the banging and growling going on below me as I sorted and combined and managed my stuff. 

 

Then things sounded closer than they had. I walked over to where there was a hole and I saw that a mass of zombies had worked their way up to the attic even though I had chopped the ladder that led up there. In another moment they had torn through a wall that gave them access to the roof and they were on me again and I was dead.

 

Wow. A17 anyone? I LOVED IT!!!

 

Feral Sense is everything that people who just wanted to be left alone by the zombies used to complain about. Now, it is a feature you can turn on if you want and believe me it makes a huge difference. If you played this game back in the day when zombies always seemed to know right where you were and so it was completely unsafe to venture out at night, well...you'll either avoid the option or bask in the nostalgia of it all. I think it will be a very popular setting that will result in some pretty amazing stories-- mostly about dying horribly.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Roland (see edit history)

[Darklegend222]

That sounds amazing, I'm not sure how much your allowed to tell, but I've got some questions.

 

Is the cities in RWG a lot better? So it's not like a large area with buildings scattered at random distances?

 

Are the roads not as.. drop-like on the sides?

 

Can we now fail dig quests for leaving the radius.. which moves? (Seems stupid in my opinion, but I could just mod the quest radius like I've done before)

 

And finally, how does feral sense work? It would seem stupid to ever go in a city since buildings would just start collapsing by zombies breaking them trying to get outside to where the player is. Potentially breaking the loot and containers.

 

Edit: it seems like a very worthwhile update, i hope they can't climb through a half block gap!

Edited July 10, 2021 by Darklegend222 (see edit history)

[Roland]

2 hours ago, Darklegend222 said:

 

Is the cities in RWG a lot better? So it's not like a large area with buildings scattered at random distances?

The ones I’ve seen are a lot better than anything in the past— even better than handcrafted Navezgane cities of the past. 

 

2 hours ago, Darklegend222 said:

Are the roads not as.. drop-like on the sides?

not sure. I’ve never been picky about road aesthetics. They seem better to me in general. 

 

2 hours ago, Darklegend222 said:

Can we now fail dig quests for leaving the radius.. which moves? (Seems stupid in my opinion, but I could just mod the quest radius like I've done before)

 The fail radius doesn’t shrink like the dig guide does. You can fail by leaving the area after activating the beacon. I’m sure it will be configurable just as it is now. 
 

 

2 hours ago, Darklegend222 said:

And finally, how does feral sense work? It would seem stupid to ever go in a city since buildings would just start collapsing by zombies breaking them trying to get outside to where the player is. Potentially breaking the loot and containers.

I’m not sure. I thought that it just increased the distance that zombies would detect you but it also seems to improve their pathing. It did not cause sleepers to wake up easier. I’m not sure how it affects their forget timer nor how stealth perks might defend against feral sense. 

[7daystodierocks]

11 minutes ago, Roland said:

The ones I’ve seen are a lot better than anything in the past— even better than handcrafted Navezgane cities of the past. 

 

not sure. I’ve never been picky about road aesthetics. They seem better to me in general. 

 

 The fail radius doesn’t shrink like the dig guide does. You can fail by leaving the area after activating the beacon. I’m sure it will be configurable just as it is now. 
 

 

I’m not sure. I thought that it just increased the distance that zombies would detect you but it also seems to improve their pathing. It did not cause sleepers to wake up easier. I’m not sure how it affects their forget timer nor how stealth perks might defend against feral sense. 

Most importantly roland is the RWG fixed so we dont get land looking like somebody threw up on it and while from a playing standpoint it doesnt matter how the roads look from an aesthestics standpoint a road should have sheer drop offs maybe gradual ditches

[Darklegend222]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

The ones I’ve seen are a lot better than anything in the past— even better than handcrafted Navezgane cities of the past. 

 

not sure. I’ve never been picky about road aesthetics. They seem better to me in general. 

 

 The fail radius doesn’t shrink like the dig guide does. You can fail by leaving the area after activating the beacon. I’m sure it will be configurable just as it is now. 
 

 

I’m not sure. I thought that it just increased the distance that zombies would detect you but it also seems to improve their pathing. It did not cause sleepers to wake up easier. I’m not sure how it affects their forget timer nor how stealth perks might defend against feral sense. 

That's amazing then, I appreciate the feedback and can't wait to play A20! I certainly hope it will allow all the POIs to be on one map for RWG.

 

If not in A20 then a future release,

Rummaging through a newly created worlds config to see what POIs exist is a little disheartening.

[pApA^LeGBa]

I really hope there will be a range we can set between what we have now and every zombie in the state is gonna chase you.

[Jost Amman]

I'm currently playing A19 with Darkness Falls overhaul mod and I don't even need A20 to have that same feeling of being hunted again.

I'm not saying I'm not happy about the changes, just saying that some stuff can be covered by mods if it's not in Vanilla.

 

That being said, I'm looking forward mainly to the BIG news: namely improvements to the current game mechanics (RWG for one) and to the new stuff in general. 

[Outlaw_187]

Thanks for sharing that Roland. A20 sounds amazing, can't wait to dive in!

[Roland]

9 hours ago, 7daystodierocks said:

Most importantly roland is the RWG fixed so we dont get land looking like somebody threw up on it and while from a playing standpoint it doesnt matter how the roads look from an aesthestics standpoint a road should have sheer drop offs maybe gradual ditches

 

One man's throw up is another man's apocalyptic terrain after cataclysmic upheaval.  

 

I hesitate to say that RWG is "fixed". It seems a lot better to me. As I've said in the past, it almost seems like there are two completely separate and new biomes now: Wooded Flatlands and Mountainous Wilderness. The roads seem for the most part to stick to the flat areas and go around the mountainous regions instead of trying to cut through or go over them which resulted in huge cliff drop offs from the sides of roads or roads that took drastic turns of slope.

 

That being said-- it is random gen so I would expect there probably exists some edge cases and it will always be an ongoing project to get a result that is pleasing to most people but still random. I, personally, feel the world layout is much improved but we will have to wait to see the verdict from the masses.

5 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

I really hope there will be a range we can set between what we have now and every zombie in the state is gonna chase you.

 

I did not see a slider. It was either feral sense on or off-- but I suspect you'll easily be able to go into the xmls and change values to get something in between. You could designate it for Day or Night or all. So there is a setting that makes it feel like you are engaging more zombies during the day while out exploring but also be able to go out at night and sneak without undo danger-- plus with feral sense on at night you would have zombies attacking your base every night or digging down to get you while mining. Depending on who you are that probably sounds like torture or paradise...

 

I set mine to All which is why a large group attacked the POI I was on top of and eventually stacked themselve high enough to get in the attic and then onto the roof. WIth it set to Day I would have been perfectly safe on that roof all night.

 

5 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

I'm currently playing A19 with Darkness Falls overhaul mod and I don't even need A20 to have that same feeling of being hunted again.

I'm not saying I'm not happy about the changes, just saying that some stuff can be covered by mods if it's not in Vanilla.

 

That being said, I'm looking forward mainly to the BIG news: namely improvements to the current game mechanics (RWG for one) and to the new stuff in general. 

 

Yes, mods can be amazing and thank goodness we have them for long development cycles like A20 is turning out to be. The problem with huge overhaul mods is that the mod author didn't read my mind when they made the mod to know all that I like and don't like. The nice thing about the feral sense is that it is one feature that can be added to vanilla so that if you like that but don't want other alterations to the gameplay,  you can do it.

 

Feral Sense does give the illusion of more zombies because without it many zombies spawn in past the point where they can sense you and so they just stand around or wander aimlessly and if you never come across them you never knew they were even there. Once people start modding in larger zombie spawns it could get to be a constant attack by zombies which would make building, mining, digging, exploring POIs etc.. a very different experience.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Roland (see edit history)

[7daystodierocks]

yeah i have seen a couple roads go up a near vertical mountain XD

[TWORDY]

10 hours ago, Roland said:

 Wooded Flatlands and Mountainous Wilderness. The roads seem for the most part to stick to the flat areas and go around the mountainous regions instead of trying to cut through or go over them which resulted in huge cliff drop offs from the sides of roads or roads that took drastic turns of slope.

 

World generation is always fine until things go completely (w)rec(k)triangular. I would really like to experience someday huge open areas, meadows or cornfields, or any other fields. Having ranches stretching for miles and small towns visible from afar is something I may look forward to. Pre-created/pre-generated mountains and ponds sound good to me because the more believable landscape is the better for everyone. I`m truly looking forward to improvement in world generation.

 

10 hours ago, Roland said:

 did not see a slider. It was either feral sense on or off-- but I suspect you'll easily be able to go into the xmls and change values to get something in between. .

 

Any slider that may change the flow of the game is something I would deeply appreciate. The more options the game has to offer, the greater uniqueness of each play is.

 

Edited July 11, 2021 by TWORDY (see edit history)

[Star69]

Have you witnessed any wandering hordes in A20 yet? Specifically, are they wandering again? A19 wandering hordes just stand around a lot.

[Roland]

Wandering hordes work the same in A20 as they do in A19. Actually, wandering hordes have always had a "pitstop" that they would herd towards and then stop and and stand around in the area. I think that before A19 that target area was always a ways beyond the player's location but almost always the path went right through the player's location. With A19, the programmers (faatal) put a lot more variation in their path, direction, and target stopping point. That means they might reach their stopping point beyond you, close to where you are, or before they reach you. Their path could take them anywhere up to 30 or 40 blocks away from your location and in a random direction which means you may never see them wandering and by chance might come upon them after they reached their pitstop and spread out in the area waiting for their life timer to run out.

 

Feral Sense will cause all those wandering hordes to notice you even from 30 blocks away so they will always turn and come at you and so you will notice just how many hordes there are that you never noticed before. A lot of people thought that hordes were turned off for A19 until people started modding the horde numbers and THEN saw how much more noticeable they were.

2 hours ago, TWORDY said:

I would really like to experience someday huge open areas

 

The flat areas are vast. The first time I played A20 I came out of the noisy bumpy terrain of a mountainous area into a huge open area and figured I must be on the border of city-- you know the way it stamps the terrain flat in a big circle around where the city is going to go? Nope. I traveled for a long time before I came upon any buildings. It was just a vast wide open area of woodland. In fact, I commented in the dev chat that it would be cool to thin the trees a bit or perhaps have random clearings where trees didn't spawn in flat areas so that the flat areas would seem more like the meadows of Valheim and then the mountainous terrain would be more like the Dark Forests of Valheim-- basically two pseudo biomes from the same basic "forest biome". 

 

They patted me on the head.

[Laz Man]

Thanks for sharing your initial impressions Roland its nice to hear especially the part about feral sense.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if feral sense is improved further but will say in my limited controlled testing of it when it first came in, it felt pretty damn good. 

 

One thing for sure was that stealth  felt more important since the zeds ability to "sense" noise was definitely better with the feature on...😄

[Roland]

8 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

Thanks for sharing your initial impressions Roland its nice to hear especially the part about feral sense.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if feral sense is improved further but will say in my limited controlled testing of it when it first came in, it felt pretty damn good. 

 

One thing for sure was that stealth  felt more important since the zeds ability to "sense" noise was definitely better with the feature on...😄

 

One thing I that is quite funny to me is all the complaining right now about the emptiness of the world and lack of zombies. WIth feral sense, I couldn't do anything for very long without getting interrupted by zombies coming over to give me a hand...or eat one of mine.   I wonder whether some of those who have been wishing for more zombies in the world will end up turning off feral sense in the long run because they'll get sick of constantly having to deal with all the zombies...haha.

 

I do remember people complaining about the constant wandering hordes and random zombies damaging their base, or interrupting mining, or destroying the POI the player was trying to explore back when we had more zombies in the world than we have currently.

 

Is the brain always tastier on the other side?

[7daystodierocks]

6 hours ago, TWORDY said:

 

World generation is always fine until things go completely (w)rec(k)triangular. I would really like to experience someday huge open areas, meadows or cornfields, or any other fields. Having ranches stretching for miles and small towns visible from afar is something I may look forward to. Pre-created/pre-generated mountains and ponds sound good to me because the more believable landscape is the better for everyone. I`m truly looking forward to improvement in world generation.

 

 

Any slider that may change the flow of the game is something I would deeply appreciate. The more options the game has to offer, the greater uniqueness of each play is.

 

i feel nitrogen would prob be a good addition to the base game

[meganoth]

17 hours ago, 7daystodierocks said:

yeah i have seen a couple roads go up a near vertical mountain XD

 

In vanilla? I don't remember having seen much of that, except when I made a world with ...

 

4 hours ago, 7daystodierocks said:

i feel nitrogen would prob be a good addition to the base game

 

nitrogen. Don't get me wrong, I liked the forbidding hills of nitrogen where a gyro was a godsend but nitrogen is definitely not the remedy for vertical roads.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Man with a hat]

So, TFP has changed course again. Nothing new here then. For the better for sure but doubt it will stay.

[hiemfire]

16 hours ago, Laz Man said:

One thing for sure was that stealth  felt more important since the zeds ability to "sense" noise was definitely better with the feature on...

Feral Sense toggled on + attack volumes existing in their current state = "Nope nope nope." from me, especially when trying to play to maximize stealth's strength (I.E. during the night in game to take advantage of the plethora of shadows and not have the inverted passive illumination shift mess with my vision). Volume trigger, player moves to adjust (at night in game mind you, so you're going to need to move fast) and everything in the neighborhood shows up.

Edited July 11, 2021 by hiemfire (see edit history)

[7daystodierocks]

14 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

In vanilla? I don't remember having seen much of that, except when I made a world with ...

 

 

nitrogen. Don't get me wrong, I liked the forbidding hills of nitrogen where a gyro was a godsend but nitrogen is definitely not the remedy for vertical roads.

 

 

i guess the vertical roads must have just been horrible luck on my part XD I know i remember back when we had hub cities almost every single time mine would be in a 100 block deep crater with no easy way down XD

[meganoth]

9 hours ago, 7daystodierocks said:

i guess the vertical roads must have just been horrible luck on my part XD I know i remember back when we had hub cities almost every single time mine would be in a 100 block deep crater with no easy way down XD

So what does ancient history from 4 years ago have to do with the current game of A19?

 

Lets make a test, we both generate a world in vanilla, say 8k size and we both use your username "7daysttodierocks" as world seed so we look at the same world. Lets try to find vertical roads there. Probably we will still find a few but lets see how long they are, how common they are and how out of place they look on a scale of 1 to 10. Lets do this and we have actual data to argue on.

 

Are you in?

 

The same should be done in A20 since this will definitely change with all the work done to RWG. As a last step we also should compare it to the same world with default settings of nitrogen.

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[mr.devolver]

One would think that by now, we all should be reading stories about A21, but I know that one would be probably unpopular in the community for that kind of thinking.

🎶

[Roland]

5 hours ago, mr.devolver said:

One would think that by now, we all should be reading stories about A21, but I know that one would be probably unpopular in the community for that kind of thinking.

🎶

 

One would think that by now, we all should be used to how TFP operates, and simply accept that A20 will release whenever it does and if A19 has grown stale to play and A20 news has grown stale to read then simply play other games and read other news to occupy your time and fulfill your need for entertainment. 

 

But I know that type of thinking is unpopular among those who want a faster development cycle.

[Boidster]

I hope (and expect) that the Feral Sense ability is part of the zombie "template" XML nodes, so we can fine-tune it down to individual zombies. So maybe Arlene doesn't have it, but, just to pick a totally random example, feral zombies do. Regular wolves, no. Dire wolves, yes. Cougars during day, no. Cougars at night after a couple of drinks, yes.

 

I miss the meat-based feral sense. I bet some skilled modder will tie Feral Sense to meat in inventory. I'd install that.

[Roland]

21 hours ago, Man with a hat said:

So, TFP has changed course again. Nothing new here then. For the better for sure but doubt it will stay.

 

The difference this time is that it is simply an option. So I'm sure it will stay since we can easily tell anyone who complains about it to just turn it off. Or rather, Stop turning it on if you don't like it since it is off by default.