A20 Developer Diary Discussions

[Matt115]

10 hours ago, Adam the Waster said:

im not going into the gun ban thing cuz that will causes a Forum war but!

not all, it depends on the gun maker. Like some Modern Level actions have Polly stocks, metal rails, all metal etc. but some make there look like old ones but with better items.

i was hoping the Marksman rifle would look like a AR15 sense they are simi auto and they fit well for a Marksman rifle. Maybe it would have a wooden stock, long barrel port, AR Iron sights, and some tape wrapped around it. but a Lever action is cool too!

i wonder what primitive Sniper is? i don't think its that level action because then the OG hunting rifle would have no role. 
the Pipe rifle should basically be a long tube with a stock, Bolt, Iron sights and a Front grip, it would have ONE shot like the old hunting rifle. 

while the Hunting rifle would have 3 rounds and would have a clip on the bottom. the scope would be placed near the bolt like a real rifle sense you don't need to load it via the Bolt. it would be a Classic deer rifle. 

and what about the pipe AR?

I mean ban changing old good looking gun into "modern" plastic junk. How they can harm good looking for example ppsh  a change it into "TaCtIcAl" - puting 3 diffrent scopes 2 lasers, 3 flashlight , custrom stock , grip itd yeez i hate it

 

Well  in my opinion the primitive sniper could be good  old Martini Henry rilfe - good old blackpowder rifle . 

Well M14 could be better  that  AR15 but it more personal choice . 

[SxR]

a20 wen?

 

Love the changelog so far. Can't wait for the distant renders to look true to the world. Sucks so much to see a perfectly good Skyscraper all of a sudden disappear since it got blown up.

[Matt115]

Just now, SxR said:

a20 wen?

 

Love the changelog so far. Can't wait for the distant renders to look true to the world. Sucks so much to see a perfectly good Skyscraper all of a sudden disappear since it got blown up.

In summer maybe?

[SxR]

1 minute ago, Matt115 said:

In summer maybe?

I was being facetious but if rumors are Summer, that'll be cool. Hopefully just before the Holidays to absolutely smash some online play and get some mega bases going with my friends. ;d

[MechanicalLens]

1 minute ago, Matt115 said:

In summer maybe?

 

Definitely later than that. My money is on 2022, and that's good. The longer they take and the more polished A20 becomes the better.

[Matt115]

Just now, SxR said:

I was being facetious but if rumors are Summer, that'll be cool. Hopefully just before the Holidays to absolutely smash some online play and get some mega bases going with my friends. ;d

I hope so too

Just now, MechanicalLens said:

 

Definitely later than that. My money is on 2022, and that's good. The longer they take and the more polished A20 becomes the better.

I don't be so sure. I think they will add a20 in middle/late summer and it will be just fixing when players will send them bugs reports. It is just more effective that looking them by self

[Adam the Waster]

1 hour ago, SxR said:

a20 wen?

 

Love the changelog so far. Can't wait for the distant renders to look true to the world. Sucks so much to see a perfectly good Skyscraper all of a sudden disappear since it got blown up.

Madmole told me! Ill be fired if i say this but!

 

Spoiler

When its done

 

[Matt115]

1 minute ago, Adam the Waster said:

Madmole told me! Ill be fired if i say this but!

 

  Hide contents

When its done

 

Prepare a stack ! He will burn ! ( i love language jokes) 

[Adam the Waster]

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

I mean ban changing old good looking gun into "modern" plastic junk. How they can harm good looking for example ppsh  a change it into "TaCtIcAl" - puting 3 diffrent scopes 2 lasers, 3 flashlight , custrom stock , grip itd yeez i hate it

 

Well  in my opinion the primitive sniper could be good  old Martini Henry rilfe - good old blackpowder rifle . 

Well M14 could be better  that  AR15 but it more personal choice . 

ohhh

yeah thats a Crime! its like how in Iraq how they have so many old cool Surplus guns and they mess them up by adding scopes. flashlights, and other modern stuff!

[Adam the Waster]

27 minutes ago, Weazelsun said:

@madmole Will some Navesgane only poi's come to random world gen in the future? 

Some can't be in there due to generation reasons so.... no

some stuff like the sewer drain with the bear, The docks, fishishy, and some other things will not come

 

[Matt115]

4 hours ago, Adam the Waster said:

ohhh

yeah thats a Crime! its like how in Iraq how they have so many old cool Surplus guns and they mess them up by adding scopes. flashlights, and other modern stuff!

Well in my opinion some "modifications" can have sense like- M1 with diffrent magasines and full or semiload. or longer or shorter barrel like Gewehr 98 and gewehr 98 kurz.  But i pray for one thing : if somehow TFP will added garand or thompson or mg34 it will not have any strange mods 

[Weazelsun]

4 hours ago, Adam the Waster said:

Some can't be in there due to generation reasons so.... no

some stuff like the sewer drain with the bear, The docks, fishishy, and some other things will not come

 

Yeah, I'm hoping with their improvements to RWG, hopefully those specific poi's will come. Hopefully. 

[BFT2020]

9 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Newts from Days  gone?

Why do people want to kill kids so much in zombie games?

[Matt115]

6 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

Why do people want to kill kids so much in zombie games?

Well i will tell this in diffrent way? why not? We have a zombie bears , zombies dogs , so zombie teens will be logical too. Not to much but sometimes like newts ( maybe they are 1% of enemies like bears in days gone) or in no more room in hell ( 90% normal and weak zombies 2% kids/teens and 8% soldiers) . For example we have zombie children sometimes in walking dead ( for example 1 episode ) , dying light have special zombie children right? This have sense like weak almost decayed zombie or drowned. Small number but exist .

And it could be another type of zombie. 7dtd trying to be realistic like walking dead or dead island so there is not place (ofc they can change concept ) for something like tank from l4d2 , resident evil biomutants or cod mangelers, panzersoldat etc. Ofc something like witch can be placed fine this same way as boomer ( fat cop) or red head from resident evil or riot zombie or crazy zombie from world war z but jockey or splitter from l4d2 or gigants from resident evil ?  Nope

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[ShellHead]

1 hour ago, BFT2020 said:

Why do people want to kill kids so much in zombie games?

Honestly, i think it’s raw edge factor.

the arguments are centered in “realism” but most folks will excuse a lot in ostensibly realistic games if they think it’s cool so i’m not really buying them. I think they’re mistaking “grittiness” for “realism” so that if something is darker and more edgy, that automatically makes it more realistic. 
at the end of the day, i think it’s based in the idea that their choices in media must be “taken seriously” and as such must portray darker and grimmer things to show how “mature” it actually is. That being said, i think all of that can be done well but most people do it, not because of what they actually want to explore in the work, but because they’re obsessed with not looking immature in their taste in media.

[Matt115]

2 minutes ago, Morloc said:

 

Pfff. If I have to lose equipment slots, so should they! 😠

 

 

-Morloc

Rly would you wear socks taken from rotting zombie?!

 

But srl : i think he want to say they diffrent clothes for example departed women : black shoes, white shoes barefoot , top jacket or thirt , long hair short hair etc and these " parts" are mixed to create more variants on this "base"

[Morloc]

Yes...gotcha'.

 

I'm still losing slots.

 

 

-Morloc

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, ShellHead said:

Honestly, i think it’s raw edge factor.

the arguments are centered in “realism” but most folks will excuse a lot in ostensibly realistic games if they think it’s cool so i’m not really buying them. I think they’re mistaking “grittiness” for “realism” so that if something is darker and more edgy, that automatically makes it more realistic. 
at the end of the day, i think it’s based in the idea that their choices in media must be “taken seriously” and as such must portray darker and grimmer things to show how “mature” it actually is. That being said, i think all of that can be done well but most people do it, not because of what they actually want to explore in the work, but because they’re obsessed with not looking immature in their taste in media.

i can't agree well : cod had edgy and darker ww2nazi zombies and it wasn't so realstic ( well it looks another indiana jones but without him and as game). it was a serial about zombies - i don't remeber it name  it was on netflix and there was half zombie murphy , crazy doc who loves drugs etc and each there was zombie inflant ( i hate them in game like crawlers in dead space ). So it isn't something edgy it just another type of zombie - they didn't put them in for example in l4d but i could be too much controversial from this period. But know we can place as 6yo in horizon zero dawn and robot dinosource can kill us. In plague tale we have Teens Amicia and her brother, they are eating alive by rats etc . In last of us Ellie is 14 yo and if i good remember can be killed by zombie. in 48 weeks after a girl at the end became zombie . So times has change and games too : they aren't brutal because they can. Ofc in dying light they are zombie children but there are only few and have sense because you can even find a preschool and  help survived childrens. So everything can be good if they are ballanced . In cod we had samatha, in bioshocks little sisters and in fear alma. So it can be done just it need thinking how to implement it logical. 

 

Small note i forget about kendo daughter from re2  and this bioweapon girl from re 7

Edited May 7, 2021 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[Matt115]

8 minutes ago, Morloc said:

Yes...gotcha'.

 

I'm still losing slots.

 

 

-Morloc

<sigh> well you can't have everything. I wish get ol' combining weapons and tools but it will never return, we must just go forward and still remember about fallen ( well i know cutted but whatever i'm trying to be soo leader from movie) functions who left in the ashes of the past

Edited May 7, 2021 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[ShellHead]

11 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

i can't agree well : cod had edgy and darker ww2nazi zombies and it wasn't so realstic ( well it looks another indiana jones but without him and as game). it was a serial about zombies - i don't remeber it name  it was on netflix and there was half zombie murphy , crazy doc who loves drugs etc and each there was zombie inflant ( i hate them in game like crawlers in dead space ). So it isn't something edgy it just another type of zombie - they didn't put them in for example in l4d but i could be too much controversial from this period. But know we can place as 6yo in horizon zero dawn and robot dinosource can kill us. In plague tale we have Teens Amicia and her brother, they are eating alive by rats etc . In last of us Ellie is 14 yo and if i good remember can be killed by zombie. in 48 weeks after a girl at the end became zombie . So times has change and games too : they aren't brutal because they can. Ofc in dying light they are zombie children but there are only few and have sense because you can even find a preschool and  help survived childrens. So everything can be good if they are ballanced . In cod we had samatha, in bioshocks little sisters and in fear alma. So it can be done just it need thinking how to implement it logical. 

 

Small note i forget about kendo daughter from re2  and this bioweapon girl from re 7

Except that wasn’t the question, the question was “why do people want to kill kids so much in zombie games?”

edge factor and concern over looking immature is why.

the thing is most of your examples go to my point, people use kids lives in danger as a way to look more serious, every one of those games are supposed to be “taken seriously” and handle that seriousness with varying degrees success. Like i said, this can be done well but often isn’t because it’s usually done from a position of insecurity, either of the creators or the audience.

Also realism is different than being considered mature, there are plenty of works that are mature that are wildly unrealistic and lots of realistic works that are incredibly immature.

[Matt115]

5 minutes ago, ShellHead said:

Except that wasn’t the question, the question was “why do people want to kill kids so much in zombie games?”

edge factor and concern over looking immature is why.

the thing is most of your examples go to my point, people use kids lives in danger as a way to look more serious, every one of those games are supposed to be “taken seriously” and handle that seriousness with varying degrees success. Like i said, this can be done well but often isn’t because it’s usually done from a position of insecurity, either of the creators or the audience.

Also realism is different than being considered mature, there are plenty of works that are mature that are wildly unrealistic and lots of realistic works that are incredibly immature.

Question should be :  why do people want to put zombie children in zombie games.

And there answer is : because it is logical. In days gone you have newts , You need too kill them? Sometimes sometimes not it depends on sitation. That's why attacking witch in l4d2 is in most situation bad idea but is some of them is neccesary ( if she respawned in doors). That's way in re2 you don't kill most zombies - you need to saving ammo. So your question is only half correct . I want to add into for example executing a bandits to get better situation in city in mount and blade. They are kids in this game too. Most of them are just npc in cities. Want i could kill farmes with children? Nope. But if they decide to make a mount and blade 2 into game of throne when you do whatever you want to take a crown. You can execute lords so they children are dangerous too. That's why lord Tywin Lannister ordered to kill some children right? Or using them like "cards". So if they want to make a game of throne it should be option to be cruel as tywin or heroic like Robb. But if they decide to create mount and blade 2 in  something like "king Artur" kiling lords okay it fit but exectuting children shoudn't be a option. That's way zombie children can have place in 7dtd or world war z because they are trying to have "realistic " setting . But they don't fit in dead rising 4 or nza. 

I can agree - it can be matur without being unreaslic. For example painkiller - it looking very ... specific  i guess? And you can find skeletons, zombie crusader ( a lot of them were bad guys so it have sens.) bad scietntist( logical well a lot of doctors were bad) , drunkers ( i don't need to explain) , russian zombie solders ( this was rly controversial in russia) or... bad kids ( killer boy with knife and buring girl) in orphanage . Painkiller looks  ironical and serious in this same time - bad clown in park , prisoners in prisons, bad cop in riot. 

So it is neccesary how they implement everything in my opionion 

 

[Gazz]

6 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Well i will tell this in diffrent way? why not? We have a zombie bears , zombies dogs , so zombie teens will be logical too.

 

That's an easy question. A bunch of countries flat out ban games with violence against children.

[ShellHead]

Yeah, from a business perspective zombie kids aren’t just something you throw in for realism purposes or shock factor. It’s either critical to what the game is about or you don’t do it.

From a content perspective, you still have to have a reason to make kid zombies and “it’s logical” isn’t really sufficient. There are a thousand realistic elements you could put in to a zombie game and not even get to kid zombies. Everything is a trade off, so you have to decide if it’s actually something you’d be interested in adding.

Do they play well with the themes and concepts the rest of the game deals with?

Would they be appropriate for the tone and direction the game is taking?

Just throwing them in is a sure fire way to make them either short zombies or gritty for the sake of gritty, which is my whole point.

going back to the original question, 90% of the time kid zombies are even brought up is explicitly for shock factor and oftentimes realism is used as a cover for that kind of lurid pandering. Don’t get me wrong, i have no issues with kid zombies in games, i have issues with adding things that would logically have a great deal of thematic and emotional weight in for the sake of looking cool and edgy. Do it right or don’t do it, it’s not something you throw in just because you think it would be cool or more realistic.

Edited May 8, 2021 by ShellHead (see edit history)

[Roland]

Just have the head of the radiated tourist sprout legs and attack as a head crab type monster whenever the radiated tourist gets decapitated. 

 

Or would that count as the radiated tourist's offspring.....?

[meganoth]

10 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Question should be :  why do people want to put zombie children in zombie games.

And there answer is : because it is logical. In days gone you have newts , You need too kill them? Sometimes sometimes not it depends on sitation. That's why attacking witch in l4d2 is in most situation bad idea but is some of them is neccesary ( if she respawned in doors). That's way in re2 you don't kill most zombies - you need to saving ammo. So your question is only half correct . I want to add into for example executing a bandits to get better situation in city in mount and blade. They are kids in this game too. Most of them are just npc in cities. Want i could kill farmes with children? Nope. But if they decide to make a mount and blade 2 into game of throne when you do whatever you want to take a crown. You can execute lords so they children are dangerous too. That's why lord Tywin Lannister ordered to kill some children right? Or using them like "cards". So if they want to make a game of throne it should be option to be cruel as tywin or heroic like Robb. But if they decide to create mount and blade 2 in  something like "king Artur" kiling lords okay it fit but exectuting children shoudn't be a option. That's way zombie children can have place in 7dtd or world war z because they are trying to have "realistic " setting . But they don't fit in dead rising 4 or nza. 

I can agree - it can be matur without being unreaslic. For example painkiller - it looking very ... specific  i guess? And you can find skeletons, zombie crusader ( a lot of them were bad guys so it have sens.) bad scietntist( logical well a lot of doctors were bad) , drunkers ( i don't need to explain) , russian zombie solders ( this was rly controversial in russia) or... bad kids ( killer boy with knife and buring girl) in orphanage . Painkiller looks  ironical and serious in this same time - bad clown in park , prisoners in prisons, bad cop in riot. 

So it is neccesary how they implement everything in my opionion 

 

 

When was the last time you asked for a zombie old man / pensioner ? It is logical