Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[RBN]

I remenber a time when you can make the z's go up a stair, fall and do it again and again leaving a gap between the stair and your platform.

 

That was cheesy. As you said exploiting a weakness that break the objetive of the game.

 

 

[MuffinMan]

To remove the "AFK" base situation, where you just go away from your main base and sit on a roof and camp the zombies so that they don't damage your structure, they could just make the zombies attack player structures the same way they target players. They already have "heat maps" they can use for this. Only thing would be keeping those chunks loaded in memory and the higher zombie count would likely affect frame rate and whatnot. I'd suggest using the players "main base" as the dummy 'player' for the zombies to attack rather than any and all player created structures.

 

It would potentially be possible now with a simple mod, the server could just create an invisible "player" character for every valid player on server that is in the middle of the each players main base, then the zombies would want to attack it.

 

With it setup this way you wouldn't want to leave your base unless it was actually setup with turrets or other defenses and the game world would feel a bit more real.

[MechanicalLens]

You see, this is a murky line. What's the difference between an elevated pathway or maze, and a trench around your base that forces the zombies to attack from one point? Aren't they just two sides, same coin?

[RBN]

Well, before the pole drama hit me hard today i enter the forum with the intention of asking @faatall about the performance in A20.

 

In A19 i saw a great improvement in performance, always between 40-50 fps but in this alpha I'm between 30-40 again and when I am in any of the new "city cluster" the fps drops bellow 30, hitting sometimes 10-15, making playing very difficult.

 

I drop down the textures to medium, reflections to off, disable the music (i read this could help) and turning off the new long distance feature but.....the situation in the cities persists.

 

I have an AMD A-10 7860k, a Radeon rx 580 8GB and 24GB RAM. I know is modest but i want to know if there is anything i can do to improves the fps at least to 30 to enjoy the new cities.

[MechanicalLens]

People can play how they want, all the more power to them, but imo the only types of "cheese bases", by loose definition, are AFKable horde bases where you and potentially your base as well are at a 0% threat level. Plus there is a line. Trenches don't need to be "fixed", but the arrow slit force field bug? Probably. 😛

[RBN]

1 minute ago, MechanicalLens said:

People can play how they want, all the more power to them, but imo the only types of "cheese bases", by loose definition, are AFKable horde bases where you and potentially your base as well are at a 0% threat level. Plus there is a line. Trenches don't need to be "fixed", but the arrow slit force field bug? Probably. 😛

 

Man this was hilarious when i saw it in a Jawoodle video. Still working?
 

[MechanicalLens]

2 minutes ago, RBN said:

 

Man this was hilarious when i saw it in a Jawoodle video. Still working?
 

 

Sort of. The zombies now beat down on the arrow slits, but otherwise, AFAIK, it's the same.

[RBN]

4 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

 

Sort of. The zombies now beat down on the arrow slits, but otherwise, AFAIK, it's the same.

 

They walked around his base front door like ants when you put insecticide around the trash can.

 

[Khalagar]

5 hours ago, overgoat said:

In the new release I've noticed my robotic sledges aren't engaging enemies anymore.  I've tried different sledges, moving them to new locations, and logging in and out, but they are just ignoring enemies.  Is this just me or can anyone else confirm they are seeing it to?

 

 

 

I've mentioned this a few times, hopefully @faatal gets time at some point to investigate it since he fixed the junk sledge back in A19. The Junk Sledge tracking is significantly worse in A20, I think it's because of the zombies doing the new crawl animation and making the sledge miss.

 

You can easily test it by putting two junk sledges in front of a door to try and push zombies out of it, and having a handful of zombies try to get through it. Any runners especially will just run right at them and zoom up and over and barely take damage before ripping your nipples off and eating them like pepperoni.

 

Junk turret and sledge are also *extremely* bad about falling through floors in A20. I'm assuming the new block system did something to the floors, but they are essentially unusable in T5 skyscrappers or any PoI where it is mildly laggy. They will fall through the floor mid fight, and especially post fight for some reason they will stop firing and then just slip away to go chill on the bottom floor of the PoI

 

It's a shame, Junk sledge was by far the coolest thing in the game imo and I loved them, but they are fairly useless in A20 besides for cheese bases

[RBN]

18 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

Junk turret and sledge are also *extremely* bad about falling through floors in A20.

I can confirm.

Last blood night the sledge that was by my side falls to the ground behind my base.

He had a heated discussion  with a Hawaiian's shirt guy  that was hitting the ramp

 

[HeLLKnight]

1 hour ago, RBN said:

Well, before the pole drama hit me hard today i enter the forum with the intention of asking @faatall about the performance in A20.

 

In A19 i saw a great improvement in performance, always between 40-50 fps but in this alpha I'm between 30-40 again and when I am in any of the new "city cluster" the fps drops bellow 30, hitting sometimes 10-15, making playing very difficult.

 

I drop down the textures to medium, reflections to off, disable the music (i read this could help) and turning off the new long distance feature but.....the situation in the cities persists.

 

I have an AMD A-10 7860k, a Radeon rx 580 8GB and 24GB RAM. I know is modest but i want to know if there is anything i can do to improves the fps at least to 30 to enjoy the new cities.

 

In my testing with a20 in cities FPS improves a ton lowering object quality, and in a second place, shadows.

 

Object quality ultra:

 

Object quality lowest:

 

Yeah, there is a big difference in graphics, I usually play at medium object quality. RTX3080, i7 7700k, 16gb 3200 CL15, game on SSD, pregen 8k, creative mode. 4k resolution, default high preset. Tried also 1080p, low preset, same spot. Ultra object quality is ~45fps, lowest object quality ~130fps.

 

Gallery with all ultra, high, medium, low and lowest here:

https://imgur.com/a/z7YjHRV

 

@faatal please take a look how CPU and GPU are quite low all the time, maybe is there a code bottleneck? Also GPU usage seems inversely affected when lowering object quality. Maybe the less bottleneck is there, the more GPU can be used? Hope it helps.

 

Also please take a look to this mod which greatly reduces TAA flickering, maybe can help devs too: https://www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/1746

 

 

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

There's a lot of talk of 'cheesing' the game.

 

Anyone considered the garbage of zombie digging and how the game 'cheeses' the player?

 

Horde night or not, zombies 'sensing' you under 30+ blocks, in a steel reinforced bunker lit by nothing but a candle (not that it matters, could be in darkness) is absurd.

 

People also talk about the 'point' of the game. The point of the game is whatever you want to make it, fighting, base building, farming - but in all instances where zombies are on, or not, the ultimate goal is surviving. To get by, to flourish, either way - to survive.

 

If these zombies or infected individuals have been turned into these ravenous monsters, then something needs to be made of them. Smart, or stupid, or some smart some stupid, then we can discuss the legitimacy of tricking them into a fall loop.

 

Some people say cheese, in the context of zombies being brain-hungry and brain-dead, this isn't cheese, it's a legitimate exploitation of the very nature of these entities. Yet, people who don't like it won't just leave it and not use it, they need every way that others can use building skills to get an advantage over zombies - stopped.

 

And that doesn't lead to, nor is it conducive to 'everyone can play as they please,' attitudes. It comes down to a 'no matter what zombies are going to find you,' attitude, which is a singular attitude meant to dominate all play styles in preference of the playstyle of a certain demographic.

 

I started with digging zombies and shall end on the same note. This is a feature I can't stand, yet was implemented because a certain number of people were vocal in their crying that they; despite never making underground bases and being totally able to just avoid them, didn't want others with that playstyle to be able to enjoy it.

 

Not to get into the pros and cons (as in bunkered up means no food and exp unless you're running an underground farm and mining, shooting zombies from below which would be very boring,) and not even to say zombie digging shouldn't have been a thing, in fact quite the contrary, I'm glad they made it.

 

What I am not glad about however, is the fact those of us who don't like or want it have not (admittedly as of yet and it may change,) been given the option to disable it. People should have the option, perhaps, to rietard the zombies or increase their ability to navigate respectively as an option, so that one group of players doesn't dictate the playstyles of everyone else.

[RBN]

All the reflection off, shadows and grass distance to minimum, new mesh off, object quality lowest, terrain lowest, antialiasing off.

 

Nothing had any effect.

 

 

In the new clusters the performance for me is always bellow 30.

 

And even worst when there are zombies around.

 

Even inside a building, in a empty room, looking at the floor with no zombies around doesn't do better than 30-35.

 

And the different qualities doesn't make any difference besides ultra (that choke my system).

[JoeDaFrogman]

 

 

 

 

So, what's the difference between these two red blocks?    Both are made of steel.

 

If you compare the amount of materials comprising each of the two, I can guarantee that the bars will contain less volume, but have 4x the HP.    You can shoot through both.  The one on the left I can hit the zombies with a melee weapon and their gadget arms can hit me if I stay to close, but the one on the right I neither I nor zombie can hit each other.   So again, what is the point of this change.   

 

I can pretty much ensure in the real world the bars would be easer to destroy vs the solid block.  For that matter, I could still effectively poke a spear or a knife/machete out between the bars, but can't do so in the game.

 

 

[RBN]

To compare.

 

Turning the reflections, raising object quality to medium, shadows grass terrain to medium

 

 

Is weird.

 

Even when i hit esc to pause the game in every other place the fps goes over 60, but in this sections stay below 30.

[RBN]

Even more weird. Raising things to almost the limit of my pc

 

 

From lowest all eyes candy off to high with eye candy only a few fps of difference and always bellow 30

 

[wolfbain5]

@faatal @madmoleis it possible to tie the zero loot respawn and the zed respawn to the biome or district zed respawn times instead of 30 days? I mean if zeds can walk in every 5 days to the biomes and districts, then wouldn't they also be walking into the prefabs we emptied? I mean using most story line game logic this would make the most sense.

[Aldranon]

The unreal situation of some things in 7D2D part 1, is only to set the stage for 7D2D part2!  When the player wakes up!

I still think the Big Brains in TFP are doing all the strange behavior in the game to set the stage for 7D2D Part2!

 

Part2 will be "Dead-is-Dead" as the default, but baby modes will be included.  It will be semi-voxel where only some things are destroyable, to improve performance.

-The player wakes up from a coma during the early stages of the real zombie Apocalypse.

-They were bit by an infected but recovered (a .001% chance).

-They start out the game in or near a large city where a small settlement of people have nursed him back to health. 

-Lawlessness has overrun the nearby city (New York?) and the people used the last of their medicine to save the player because he is special ops.  The starting player's character is strong but he needs much more experience and equipment to help the potentially last good people on the planet. 

 

Something like that.  So don't worry, things are suppose to be EXACTLY how they are now. 

 

[Doomofman]

Is modern_house_5 bugged for clear quests? It seems like there's some sleeper spawns that just don't appear. I've gone through the whole building both using the regular path and using DM flythrough and there's no hidden zombies that I can see but I never got the marker for the last sleeper groups and can't finish the quest now

[Morloc]

17 hours ago, bachgaman said:

Now recall that 90% of A20 complaints were related to the new farm, which, by the way, is positive, even without LOTL (for those who are friends with school mathematics). 

 

What do you mean "is positive" here?

 

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc 💀

[Tete1805]

So, I don't know if this was ever brought up, but I was looking for a way to improve my feel for progression in melee weapons without modifying the DPS (which can feel like a rabbit hole at times).

What about targeting the buffs instead? (Bleed, knockback, stun...)

For instance, a stone sledgehammer / wood club would almost never knockback a zombie, whereas the steel ones would have a much better chance to do so?

This would allow for a 6 quality sledge to deal more damage than a 1 quality one with still making the upgrade to steel very much interesting. (Which might be debatable as of now.)

Is there a mod like this? Is this even possible in the current state of the game?

[Khalagar]

All this rage over building blocks reminded me of the sheer R A G E people spewed out in A19 when the loot was changed to where you wouldn't find steel tools week one. So many wall of text rants about how they would never play again and how it made it pointless to do PoI before X week because all the loot containers  would have lower tier loot so they had to wait until gamestage X to get anything good, and how it made no sense that a sealed wooden box had a stone axe in it etc etc etc etc

 

Loot change was healthy for game. Block change is healthy for game. Farming change is healthy for game.  Drone change to scale with Int and Pipe Baton change to actually scale (well) with the baton tree will be  healthy for game.

 

I can't remember the drama of the week (drama of the alpha?) for A17 and A18 etc, I'm sure they had something that triggered a horde night on the forums for Roland to sigh at

[Golevan]

How does this work? 😀

 

OS: Windows 10  (10.0.19044) 64bit
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3500 6-Core Processor  (cores: 6)
 RAM: 16330 MB
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (5980 MB)
 Graphics API: Direct3D 11.0 [level 11.1] (shader level 5.0)

Спойлер

 

 

 

 

[Jost Amman]

I'll try to explain my position on why I don't like this block HP change as briefly as I can:

• I like to build legit Blood Moon bases that are also pleasant to the eye and space efficient
• My "crafting base" and Blood Moon base are often the same (I like to play like that): which adds additional challenge to the game, since you need to be extra-careful protecting your storage and crafting stations
• Since I also live there, I usually have a 5x5 blocks base where I can place stuff
• I do use 4x poles adjacent to each other and arches that run from the top because I like how it looks even if it's a BM base: now I'll just 4x full blocks.
• To free up all the 5x5 blocks inside, I usually put the actual walls on the outside, but I use plates so that the base doesn't look blocky or ugly. I also like to put curved arches/blocks inside or outside to use as ledges or to feel I have more space inside.
• Since I hang my storage crates on the walls, with this change I'm basically forced to change the layout, and instead I'll use full blocks for the outside to avoid spitting cops destroying my storage by chance
• I also use half blocks or "fancy" blocks to avoid crouching zombies (or dogs) getting through while I'm confronting them in melee combat (they can hit me the same way I can hit them) so I don't see how this is to be considered "cheesy". Basically, I put a Hatch on the ground and fill the top with smaller block to stop crawling zeds to pass through. In the future, I'll use a bigger/uglier block (with more hit points) but reach the same net result.
• For those who say, well, "tough luck!" you'll need to change your base layout! ... Sure, I can do that. And I can already tell you that it won't change a thing from a balance perspective: I can achieve the same result with much uglier (but sturdier) blocks. I was already doing that way before A20, so...

 

That's why I think the block HP change will only damage creativity in base building, since anyone with a grain of salt won't keep using the weaker blocks anymore, but just revert to pre-A20 base layouts with uglier and sturdier blocks.

 

As for the animosity I've seen on this forum lately, I personally don't share any of that, I don't think TFP make changes based on how much they can upset players or anything like that. I often agree with their choices when I understand the "bigger picture", but in this case I'm explaining why, from my perspective, this is a bad change.

 

I'm just not a mindless drone who always needs to agree with devs.

 

I hope this will be helpful for the designer/dev team.

Thanks

[bachgaman]

2 hours ago, Morloc said:

 

What do you mean "is positive" here?

 

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc 💀

I meant "profitable"