Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[NukemDed]

ok, just had a weird one

 

started the game while modem was off but rebooting. usual 'start game offline' from steam launcher and 7dtd itself.

loaded up and got the hand wiping and moaning like when you start a new game. i was in the middle of nowhere and had the starting stuff in inventory- at day 18ish and 3:48 in the morning.

 

which is where i was at in the play thru, but i had been spawned in like a noob.

 

quit and reloaded - same thing.

 

ok, restart pc. windows had an update of course. (i do shut down every night so this is anew one)

 

all settled after the win update, start 7dtd. steam had an update - dont think it was 7dtd as i had taken the new build first thing this morning.

 

voila! back in my base surrounded by all my stuff.

 

alls well that ends well, but sommat wasnt right...

 

i doubt i could replicate that one...

 

[Roland]

1 hour ago, overgoat said:

I have been using three 1/4 columns around the corners of my horde base tower.  It allowed me to build wider at the top, while still having a somewhat sleeker design.  The lower health is making me rethink that design now.

 

Maybe it wouldn't be as painful if the health reduction was halved?  75% health for 1/2 blocks and 50% for 1/4th blocks?  It does make sense for them to be weaker, but with the same upgrade costs it does encourage blockier, less interesting builds.  

 

So those 1/4 columns are in addition to the block corners right? So an extra layer of a bit of HP.

Would the zombies even go for that or would they bash at a different section of your wall that wasn't a block and a quarter in width?

2 hours ago, Eighmy_Lupin said:

This just seems like the classic Madmole response to finding out some players play differently than him "How dare they! I'll show them by either completely removing the feature or nerfing so bad no one will want to use it!".  I mean literally every bad decision in this Alpha seems to be based on this silly logic.

 

haha...except that Madmole loves to build using all the new shapes so you are totally off that he wouldn't want people building with them for the reason that he doesn't like playing that way himself.

[POCKET951]

2 hours ago, icehot said:

I don't even get why this change was done, 75% nerf to certain blocks seems too much, it seems like another one of those "oh players have figured out a tactic that works let's get rid of it so they have nothing that really works" moves.  I just don't get why, people still had to defend, use traps, use guns, had the horde coming up to them mostly in a tower style in a tower defence game.  Next, it'll be "oh traps work, let's get rid of traps, perhaps guns need to just give them a tickle instead of actually shooting them"

 

except if thats what this change was designed to do, it totally fails because people will still use ugly square block cheese style hoard bases. all they did was take a few tools out of the hoard base building tool belt, which sucks from a creative perspective

[Callum123456789]

hey guys i don't know if this is everyone's game but in skyscraper_01 on floor 2 these set of chairs and computers aren't breakable for some odd reason

this looks pretty strange now lol they are just indestructible

[MuffinMan]

2 hours ago, Eighmy_Lupin said:

I just don't get the point of adding all these new shapes, just to turn around and say "no no don't use them" by nerfing them out of usefulness, especially since there is 0 indication of which blocks now suck in game before building them and building a @%$#ty piece cost the same as good one.

 

This just seems like the classic Madmole response to finding out some players play differently than him "How dare they! I'll show them by either completely removing the feature or nerfing so bad no one will want to use it!".  I mean literally every bad decision in this Alpha seems to be based on this silly logic.

The point is you can make something PRETTY with the new shapes, but when has PRETTY meant best stability? Never.

 

If you want some strong ugly cube base, which I always build then it is ugly. IF you want to make it pretty at the cost of stability then it is up to you. No way should some tiny piece of metal be as strong as a full block of it.

 

*BUT* if you do want some unrealistic, creative, pretty thing that is somehow as strong as the gates of heaven then maybe just mod the game. It is pretty easy.

 

I prefer the looks of something pretty so I will probably amber my way to that eventually. Which is why I left this lamp in my cube scene since it is so pretty.

 

 

[Burrfly]

I understand TFP perspective by nerfing the HP, because the block has less space occupation, meaning that it should probably have less HP. But, indeed, it costs the same amount of for example concrete mix, which isn't entirely fair. I always thought to myself: okay well these blocks take up less space but have the same amount of HP and cost the same amount of concrete mix, that means that it's probably just a higher density (more of the concrete stuff compacted in a smaller area, making it the same HP as full blocks).

 

 

[Callum123456789]

some bad stuff in the console is being caused by the same sky scraper

[Aldranon]

36 minutes ago, MuffinMan said:

The point is you can make something PRETTY with the new shapes, but when has PRETTY meant best stability? Never.

 

If you want some strong ugly cube base, which I always build then it is ugly. IF you want to make it pretty at the cost of stability then it is up to you. No way should some tiny piece of metal be as strong as a full block of it.

 

*BUT* if you do want some unrealistic, creative, pretty thing that is somehow as strong as the gates of heaven then maybe just mod the game. It is pretty easy.

 

I prefer the looks of something pretty so I will probably amber my way to that eventually. Which is why I left this lamp in my cube scene since it is so pretty.

 

 

 

You have quality 6 Auger, Wrench and a Chem station on Day 19?

What mod are you using?  That or you should buy a lotto ticket!  Heck buy one for me too because we are best buds! 

[Callum123456789]

1 hour ago, Callum123456789 said:

hey guys i don't know if this is everyone's game but in skyscraper_01 on floor 2 these set of chairs and computers aren't breakable for some odd reason

this looks pretty strange now lol they are just indestructible

another thing i want to mention is that on top of skyscraper_01 i seem to be crashing a lot which i would say is a must fix as the loot on top isn't very accessible to me

now my game seems to be bricked every time i load into the game it crashes me to the desktop with no error message but this was to be expected from an experimental build 

 

 

[MuffinMan]

4 minutes ago, Aldranon said:

 

You have quality 6 Auger, Wrench and a Chem station on Day 19?

What mod are you using?  That or you should buy a lotto ticket!  Heck buy one for me too because we are best buds! 

 

I've played this game so long that I don't like spending 80 hours grinding to get the basic stuff. I like a quality 20-40 hour run through and A20 with my mods has provided that, but I have quality 6 in those things because I allow crafting tier6 items. Ideally I wouldn't have tiers and just random items, but I have included that in my mod too. So I like to grind and get parts to build potentially even better stuff. So even though an AUGER may be level 6, you can craft another one and it will be even better (or worse).

 

With a few more possibilities in modding 7 days to die could be one of those games that just last forever. A20 is the first version since maybe 2014/2015 that feels good enough with my mods to play a lot more hours again. I am quite enjoying it.

I also just want to add, that as a coder myself that the 7 days to die crew have added a lot of potential for mods through XML already. Which is great, and since it is C# it is fully extendable even if they quit today (which I don't think they will be).

[Khalagar]

I haven't seen this much over reacting since the farming rage.

 

Shape health change is meh, but it's a simple fix to just make it cost less resources. Or not, it's not the end of the world if it costs the same for something that's just aesthetics. Easiest solution is just don't fight hordes in your main base if you are worried they are going to break your window trim

 

Them breaking it just lets you rebuild it and get more exp anyway, and I can 100% guarantee you that almost nobody that plays the game will even notice the block health nerf besides a vocal minority on forums like this. It's part of the alpha experience, things change mid alpha. Y'all wouldn't have even known the blocks originally had more health if the alpha had came out two weeks later.

 

If we hadn't gotten the alpha with the full health blocks, it would have barely been a "quirky foot note" for most people, like how if you change the shape of the storage box to a cabinet it has less storage slots.  Yeah it would be nice if the storage box options all had the same number of  slots, since they cost the same resources to make. But at the end of the day, we just suck it up and either use ugly boxes or use cool looking ones with less storage and shrug

[Callum123456789]

Just now, Khalagar said:

I haven't seen this much over reacting since the farming rage.

 

Shape health change is meh, but it's a simple fix to just make it cost less resources. Or not, it's not the end of the world if it costs the same for something that's just aesthetics. Easiest solution is just don't fight hordes in your main base if you are worried they are going to break your window trim

 

Them breaking it just lets you rebuild it and get more exp anyway, and I can 100% guarantee you that almost nobody that plays the game will even notice the block health nerf besides a vocal minority on forums like this. It's part of the alpha experience, things change mid alpha. Y'all wouldn't have even known the blocks originally had more health if the alpha had came out two weeks later

i mean if people are so outraged im sure they could change it back in the xml file but i think its fine where it is at the moment smaller blocks= weaker it makes sense to me but i haven't tested if they cost less which they should definitely for example instead of the steel poles taking 10 forged steel it should in theory only cost 2 or 3 from what ive seen them going from 10k all the way down to 2.5k block hp

[Jost Amman]

About the smaller shapes HP changes, I think that in this case logic should not trump fun/gameplay.

 

@Roland : as you can see this is not a "cheese" BM base, but I definitely took advantage of the new shapes to have a nicer looking and practical use for some blocks:

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

I think if they leave things like they are now, honestly, most players will go back to Minecraft bases. 

 

12 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

Shape health change is meh, but it's a simple fix to just make it cost less resources. Or not, it's not the end of the world if it costs the same for something that's just aesthetics. Easiest solution is just don't fight hordes in your main base if you are worried they are going to break your window trim

I disagree with this approach. That's like saying if you don't like changes to farming, just don't use it.

[Uncle Al]

I'm guessing the primary targets of the block HP change are doing things like making a pillar out of 4 quarter blocks instead of a single block - under the old rules it takes up the same space as a single block but has 4x the HP.   Although if 1/4 blocks still have full HP this still works!  Just can't use tiny poles for an almost free floating base.

 

Also skinning the outside of a wall with plates - doubles the HP of the wall while taking up trivial space.

 

I've abused the hell out of the smaller blocks, in order to make bases where the entire attacking horde is within the blast radius of a single grenade while still having a decent amount of structure HP.   Overall I have to say the change is probably a good thing.

[Aldranon]

1 hour ago, Jost Amman said:

 

I disagree with this approach. That's like saying if you don't like changes to farming, just don't use it.

 

That's an inaccurate comparison.  Khalagar gave an alternative option, you however compare that to a one way or nothing option.

[falloutcloud]

When making a melee base I would essentially put two plates back to back to double the hp vs a single block. Also, making posts that consisted of 4 poles vs a single block was making them 4x the hp and taking up less space. I don't like it, but it makes sense.

 

Maybe the initial frame block placement would be the same material cost as this would ease the burden of filling your inventory with different block shapes. Upgrades and repairs could be reduced based on the target's hp (maybe this is already done?) 

[falloutcloud]

"Zombie dogs missing flame effect"

 

The first time I came across a burnt zombie that was still on fire I thought that was awesome. Flaming dogs too! Can't wait

[pregnable]

8 hours ago, Roland said:

The overall costs of upgrading seem so much cheaper to me now that its hard for me to feel any outrage over this. Especially if it is smaller specialty shapes and not the regular shapes you would use for the direct defenses vs zombies pounding. To me everything still costs the same that they did yesterday so no big deal. I guess if I end up using something as a defensive structure and it gets ripped apart in no time I'll be screwed because I can't really see myself checking every block for HP. 

 

I just wonder how big an impact this will have in actual practice on horde nights or is it just the principle of the thing that offends?

 

It is confusing for a voxel game. 

 

It will probably confuse newer players and annoy them when they find out they used inferior blocks, with nothing to let them know it is inferior until after it is upgraded. 

 

If it was done to stop melee bases, there are probably better ways to nerf them.  I doubt it will affect my melee base much at all, but it will make me never want to use these inferior blocks ever again, unless I need them for other reasons, where their inferior health does not matter. 

[nostalginator]

On 12/8/2021 at 12:15 PM, MechanicalLens said:

2. The cooking grill still seems to be quite underwhelming compared to its cousin, the cooking pot. AFAIK the grill only has two recipes attached to it: baked potatoes and grilled meat. Perhaps this could be expanded upon in the future?

Fish Tacos and the Steak & Potato Meal also require the grill and did so during A19.

[MechanicalLens]

1 minute ago, nostalginator said:

Fish Tacos and the Steak & Potato Meal also require the grill and did so during A19.

 

Thanks for the info, didn't know that.

[Blake_]

3 hours ago, Callum123456789 said:

some bad stuff in the console is being caused by the same sky scraper

You are dragging the savegame. To be sure, try going to that exact same place in the same seed in b231 but in a new game. If the ERR persists,then create again the exact same seed with same advanced generation settings and do the same. If even then it's still there, then we shall focus on the issue and report it. My guess is that they tweaked the skyscrappers within these few days, but I can be wrong.

[Jost Amman]

1 hour ago, Aldranon said:

That's an inaccurate comparison.  Khalagar gave an alternative option, you however compare that to a one way or nothing option.

Not in my case. Because I normally have BM base and normal base one and the same... now I won't be able to build a "cool" mixed base anymore.

 

Also: I'll still be able to build a mixed base, but it'll just be "minecrafty", it doesn't change a thing for me. I'll just use ugly big blocks instead of nice ones.

[Aldranon]

23 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Not in my case. Because I normally have BM base and normal base one and the same... now I won't be able to build a "cool" mixed base anymore.

 

Also: I'll still be able to build a mixed base, but it'll just be "minecrafty", it doesn't change a thing for me. I'll just use ugly big blocks instead of nice ones.

 

You make a lot of assumptions on what you can and can't do, in a game.   Unless this is how you feel you have to play for some inexplicable reason.

 

A good hybrid would be to have the first 3 or 4 blocks high be full blocks and above that, you could go wild with creative genius! 

 

 

[overgoat]

5 hours ago, Roland said:

 

So those 1/4 columns are in addition to the block corners right? So an extra layer of a bit of HP.

Would the zombies even go for that or would they bash at a different section of your wall that wasn't a block and a quarter in width?

 

I use them as structure to keep the base of the tower narrow, but they are a key support structure that allows me to have a wider area at the top.  They usually only get attacked if/when the stairs go down, but that has happened more than once!

[MechanicalLens]

I feel like I'm one of the only people left who still builds fort/castle/bunker type bases. Haha. (To each their own! Just making a casual observation.)