Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[MechanicalLens]

Yeah its ok to have an underground tunnel but that being the only way in/up wastes too much time getting in and out, and your point of falling off is an issue. Plus repair/maintenance if your spikes are too deep you can't reach them.

 

Oh, but there is method to my supposed madness. You notice the ramps that the spikes are not placed down? I can easily jump on top of those and gain easy access to all the spikes around the tower. The barbed wire fence I have no issue jumping over. Sure, it's not a long-term design (not a feasible one anyway), but it works decently for what it's supposed to be. I don't mind losing zombie kills in A17 (unlike A18). Also, I'm probably going to install a guardrail along the outside rim of the bars to prevent me from falling off the edge.

 

Edit: This was after the horde. I was only in fly mode this one time (and the previous time before the horde started) for screenshots.

 

[SnowDog1942]

Do we get Angelina Jolie with the game?

 

Don’t need her, just her lips

[madmole]

My previous save wouldn't load so I started a new one and it was a series of unfortunate events until I finally gave up. I was doing a no-spending-perk-points for the first week type of start so that at the end of the first bloodmoon I could take inventory of whatever weapons I had and use that as a guide for which attribute I would start in.

 

I began in the snow. My previous map was a nice "Snow in the north and Desert in the south" map with large bands for the biomes. So I started walking south when what I should have done was check out my coordinates on the map. yep, I was already at 750 S when I spawned and I was now going deeper in-- but I didn't know this because I didn't check my map.

 

I came to a small town with an empty looking military encampment. I knew those tents would be packed full of baddies but one of the watch towers seemed unguarded so I thought I might tiptoe up to the top and look around. I did so and there were no zombies at all but there were two shotgun messiah crates, a small ammo stash, a small medical stash, and a munitions box. I scored big time. I got a hunting rifle, a stun baton, a crossbow, reinforced iron club, leather chest armor, leather boots, lots of ammo, and some mods. It was all poor quality but way better than the wooden club and primitive bow I had been using.

 

Oh, also two sticks of dynamite.... I threw one down at the largest tent and it exploded with a satisfactory explosion killing some zeds that were sleeping inside.

 

Why did it I do it? Because......I had two sticks of dynamite.

 

Well the encampment woke up. Tons of zombies came out of the nearby tents as well as a couple of dogs and started pounding on the supports of my watch tower. I threw my other stick of dynamite and saw a small group of zombies go down but there were plenty more. I shot some with my crossbow but it was futile. I finally jumped to the roof of a nearby tent and then juked around and ran between a few of the outlying mines and got away hearing a couple of nice explosions as my pursuers didn't navigate the mines as well as I did.

 

I got to the nearby road and continued following it south until I saw a boar standing in the middle of the road. I stopped. I thought to myself, 'I have a hunting rifle and some new armor and a rumbly tumbly'. So I equipped the rifle, sighted the boar's head and hit it. It didn't die. It ran toward me. I shot once more but missed and then it was on me. I switched to my reinforced club and whacked it good three times before it gored me to death. Boars are a lot healthier and nastier in A18, btw.

 

I respawned way to the North just above where I had started in the snow and was surrounded by green. GAH! Now I realized I had gone the wrong direction and checking my map confirmed that I had been at the northern edge of the snow biome. I did not feel like treking all the back for my stuff at the moment so I started fresh and finished my newb quest which I had been avoiding. I came to the classic scrapyard near the border of the snow biome and since I had recently watched Neeb's I thought...why not?

 

I broke in and cleared out the yard though I did not enter the building. There was a ton of good useful stuff in the trash bags around the yard. I found the needle and thread book and needle and thread and was able to craft myself a sturdy long sleeve shirt for my eventual return to the snow. I also found two molotov cocktails.....heheh. No way was I going to waste these like I did my dynamite. Night came and I just chilled in the yard on top of one of the commercial dumpsters. There was a washing machine on it and I used it as a container emptying all the odds and ends into it.

 

Then a small wandering horde came by and decided that they were going to go through the scrapyard instead of around it. I waited until they punched a hole in one of the walls and threw both of my molotovs into the gap. They died and I smiled. But the commotion attracted a wolf who broke the rest of the way in but couldn't reach me before I killed him. I gutted him for meat and built my campfire. I was able to get three charred meat out of it and wolfed them down. Then noticing I had one clump of fat in my inventory I shrugged and popped that in my mouth too.

 

I threw up. My food and water and max stamina immediately went to 25. What a disaster! It was almost morning so I ran out and went to the snow digging up snow and rushing back to my campfire. I had found a pot and I installed it now and noticed a change I didn't know about. I had to melt the snow into murky water first and then boil it from murky water to something drinkable. With my hydration taken care of I went out again and decided to go to the trader whose icon showed up when I made my campfire. He was in the snow biome but I headed that way starving and with very little stamina to do much of anything but run-walk like was doing interval training or something.

 

I arrived at the trader and was able to kill a deer just outside the compound. I harvested some meat and got my stamina almost back up to normal. I decided that I would do a buried treasure quest because those usually had food in them so that is what I did. I was able to find the treasure without too much digging though I had to dodge two mountain lions, a dire wolf, and two bears on the way. Lots of dangerous wildlife in the snow biome for a starting character....

 

The treasure had hobo stew which took me way up past 100% on both food and water so I felt great again and after completing the quest with the trader I decided to go get my backpack. I ran over to it as it was just a km to the south of the trader and OF COURSE there were three lumberjacks standing around it. I managed to kill them all using an iron spear I had found during my day's journey and augmented by a beloved toilet pistol I also found and opened my pack.

 

It was good to see all that sweet loot I had stolen from the army camp. I put the armor on and was trying to decide which weapon I would equip when I suddenly heard the growls. A pack of dogs had spawned and were on me at once and there I was in my menu making accessory choices. CRAP! Why is it so hard to exit out of the menu when it really matters? I ran but I was fully encumbered and already bleeding. I got my handgun and started shooting. I killed two but the other three kept coming and killed me, again. I guess Kenny Rogers was right. You should never count your money when you're sitting at the table....

 

I spawned back at the scrapyard and quit for the night. It was a lot of fun and a lot of scary moments. Puking out all my food and water was a major setback but I didn't feel like just quitting and starting over because of it. It was a challenge to get myself back to 100% and felt good once I got there. Those dogs, though.....

 

Twas a good read! Food poisoning is a small step towards creating a dent in your food supplies unexpectedly and it encourages making the more complex high calorie recipes because every time you eat there is that small chance, so if you eat large meals less frequently you in theory at less risk of food poisoning, so there is value in not just nibbling stacks of meat or bacon and eggs and being end game on food on day 1.

[madmole]

That was a great read. What attributes have you focused into so far in your test builds? If you ended up with some nice weapons from one you've already tested, would you have chosen to focus into it again? Also, I thought the dire wolf was a late gamestage thing. Scary!

 

No they spawn in the wild and have the farthest aggressive range of anything in the game.

[Lonestarcanuck]

I can but it won't be until tomorrow.

 

Film? so 8mm, Super 8, 35mm, or are you going full iMAX?

[madmole]

Hey Madmole,

do you know the saying "you cannot out train a bad diet"?

 

In A18 can you out spike a bad horde? I mean, is it viable? I mean, would enough spikes allow you to sit back, relax and do nothing all horde night?

 

Probably for a while, but I wouldn't want to lose all that xp. I just use them to slow them down so I can drop nades or shoot at them.

[madmole]

Neat, thank you. It is really interesting to read about the experiences you testers are having.(Hint to the others that may want to share some highlights! ;D) The more I hear about this intellect build, the more I am interested in trying it despite agility being tailor-made for my usual playstyle.

 

You mentioned if you find a turret AND if it is working? Are there weapons that are so broken that repair kits don't work and they are only good for their parts?

 

No Junk turrets somehow got broken in the last couple of days.

[madmole]

Sounds like a "Dead-is-Dead" game is going to be a real challenge now.

 

What attribute a person ends up focusing on is still wide open, but I'm starting to think there are two attributes that are needed early game.

 

Just like in Chess, only a few moves are good openings.

1 rank of cardio, 1 strength, 2 pack mule. Then you are set up on the next level to grab your next pack mule and be good on encumbrance once you get some pockets made/found, and set yourself up for some sex rex and mining down the road.

[madmole]

So if you can no longer use hatch elevator, is there any other way of getting from the bedrock back up quick? Like an antifravity field so you fall back to the surface.

 

Get off your ass and walk up the stairs, or step on a landmine and ascend to heaven quickly. I've never seen bedrock for many many alphas. What is the point when there is loads of ore at the surface?

[madmole]

With all the effort of trying to improve 7D2D in FPS why not at least give it a try to see for yourself?

(it is better then directX, wink wink)

 

https://developer.nvidia.com/vulkan-driver

 

https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/vulkan :

Vulkan™ supports close-to-metal control enabling faster performance and better image quality across Windows® 7, Windows® 8.1, Windows® 10, and Linux®. No other graphics API offers the same powerful combination of OS compatibility, rendering features, and hardware efficiency.

 

I've read what it is 5 times and my brain keeps deleting it because there is something very stupid about it I don't like.

[ZombieHorde]

Do you remember that chocolate cake Miss Trunchbull forced that fat kid to eat in that movie Matilda? It's crazy what you crave on Keto...

 

Pffft, that cake wasn't tempting. But Glados makes a pretty irresistible cake.

 

[madmole]

Finally caught up with the thread and IMO TFP are spot on with progress of the game.

 

7D2D Vanilla should keep systems simple and elegant, concentrate on performance and play ability that gets the new players hooked.

 

The sliders and choices at set up allow players to adjust the game to their style and needs, once the have played several times.

 

XML mods allow even more adjustment which is neat and there are loads of simple mods to enhance the game.

 

I have nearly 3000 hours of game play and decided to give Ravenhearst a go, while waiting for A18 to drop. With all the chatter about dumb down systems and how thing should be more complex etc on the forum.

Whilst I will say it is very well done and the variety is huge, It is extremely frustrating and a micro managing nightmare, If I hadn't played so much 7D2D and thoroughly enjoyed and been engaged by it, I would have simply given up and played something more fun.

 

So keep doing you MM and TFP, the game is great and on track, I await A18 with baited breath and for those experienced players wanting more depth through complex systems, micro management and convoluted based on realism within a fantasy setting game play, give Ravenhearst a try it actually runs quite well, and leave TFP to get the base game balanced and engaging.

Thanks, 18 is truly the most engaging game I have played ever. I'm not hyping, the sense of "things I need to do" are so urgent that its very easy to not prepare properly for a horde because you were lost trying to find things to craft something you want, but didn't really need. New infection system and food poisoning add a lot too, keeping you on your toes with meds. I'm level 25 and food is not brimming. I'm not so desperate to buy canned food yet, but my supply of meat is always low if I didn't drive a lot on my motorbike I'd probably be out of meat and be cooking up corn on the cob or whatever dipping into my reserve food.

[Sigil_Thane]

If you want to know what exactly are zombies, just ask them.

 

 

You could argue that they also parallel unrestrained immigration into runaway welfare states.

 

Not a nice way to think, but there is an argument to be made.

[Sigil_Thane]

...

I really hope zombies will get some randomness of movement back, brainless wandering alike.

 

Just think of them as line dancers. ♪┌|∵|┘♪ . └|∵|┐♪

[madmole]

I know it's been mentioned before, but I think it's been tweaked a couple of times so I'm now a bit confused.

 

What can you actually do to reduce or eliminate the risk of throwing up from bad food?

 

Do cooking perks reduce it? Is there still an "Iron Stomach" perk that reduces it? Are there advanced recipes that can be found that have less chance than the more basic recipes?

 

Basically, I'm (possibly wrongly) assuming that there is some kind of progression or advancement and in the later game you don't spend all your time puking after every other meal - so what is it that advances?

 

Or is there no way to mitigate it, and it's just that in the late game you're assumed to have lots of food and can therefore afford to eat-puke-eat-puke-eat each meal?

 

For cooked foods its like a 2% chance, very small so 1 out of 50 meals you might throw up. You can buy perks to remove it, but why, its actually great change to the game IMO.

 

Right now all prepared meals have a 2% chance, only canned food is 0% chance.

 

I actually enjoy it, its that rare hazard that puts a dent in your food supply or causes you some unexpected grief. As always preparation is king.

[madmole]

16+1=17.

The hatch elevator is not working, unless i misunderstood something.

 

Totally bummed people latch on to glitches and use them Kind of like rocket jumping in quake, but it was so cool they left it in.

 

My socket rail system would work for this, elevators and mining cars all in one system.

[falloutcloud]

My socket rail system would work for this, elevators and mining cars all in one system.

 

Socket rail system? Are elevators and mine carts something you are considering in the future? Or am I just reading this wrong?

[Kalex]

To be honest, I feel a bit disappointed with the direction that this game is going. Please TFP, and fellow gamers... treat this as a constructive criticism, I am not bashing or attacking anyone.

 

I am a veteran player, I play since Alpha 1, I loved the game and it still has a place in my heart, but this is in NO WAY a ZOMBIE apocalypse game. You should definitely change the description of the game, because there is not even a single thing that is zombie like in the game.

 

I know Madmole said that their "zombies" have a unique lore, something like World War Z, but at least don't call it a zombie game because it's not and the "zombies" in World War Z are not zombies, they are just infected people that bite other people to spread the disease, because they feel driven to spread the disease thanks to the virus they are infected with. So if I am infected with a virus that makes me bite people...that makes me a zombie? No, end of story. You can't take a carbonara pasta recipe and add tomato sauce and call it carbonara pasta, because it is not. Feel free to eat the way you want, the sky is the limit and if you like carbonara base recipe + tomato sauce, go for it, but don't call it carbonara. Let's say I develop a racing game and it is meant to be a racing game, but after a lot of alphas I think: "Hmmm, let's add a combat system to the game, guns mounted on cars, special abilities, etc" which would totally make the game something else than what it was meant to be in the first place, now it is a racing-combat game, which was not meant to be when it was created.

 

Really now, zombies that are smart and avoid traps? Zombies that feel pain and grab their arm/leg when you hit them with the fireaxe or whatever? Zombies that are radiated? Zombies that puke (cops)? Zombies that punch/slap/hit you? A zombie is a living dead, it doesn't feel pain, it doesn't have special abilities and it is certainly not intelligent. Festering corpse is the name of a zombie, really? Corpse? Since when does a corpse feel pain?

 

I am very disappointed that you made all the normal zombies smart....the traps are totally worthless when you got a horde that can easily avoid them. "Hey, let's surround our base 360 degrees with traps so the "zombies" would walk into them". This is the only way to play A17. This should be a zombie apocalypse game, and it was meant to be so from the very beginning, at least change the description to "infected people apocalypse game" or whatever. Now you will say "It's too easy even with intelligent zombies, so, why take away the challenge? It would be too boring and easy". Well, you got cops, vultures, ferals, dogs, bears, radiated people, spiders and now you will get demolisher "zombie" in A18 plus Behemoth that may or may not come in future alphas...so if you complain about lack of challenge, then ask TFP to make more unique CREATURES, because they can't be called zombies. Plus the bandits are coming, so they will certainly be a challenge.

 

You have a right to agree or disagree with me, and before you bash me because of this criticism, you should know that I have the right to open my mouth and say my opinion, and I am in no way "butthurt". This is not an attack to TFP, just constructive criticism, treat it like that.

 

Real zombies are just brain-damaged people not the undead. Look up the history of the word. Romero never called his creatures zombies, he called the ghouls and Romero is considered to be the father of the modern "zombie" genre.

[Kalex]

Watch George Romero's zombies and also the Walking Dead. They are undead, not infected people that feel pain and are smart. Since when does a zombie punches you? Since when zombies know how to avoid traps? It's totally bull...sh.it... They should be stupid as hell and with no special abilities.

 

and neither one of those shows EVER refers to them as zombies. Oh and btw, there are Romero movies that had a few "smart" zombies in it so it's not that lore breaking.

[madmole]

To be honest, I feel a bit disappointed with the direction that this game is going. Please TFP, and fellow gamers... treat this as a constructive criticism, I am not bashing or attacking anyone.

 

I am a veteran player, I play since Alpha 1, I loved the game and it still has a place in my heart, but this is in NO WAY a ZOMBIE apocalypse game. You should definitely change the description of the game, because there is not even a single thing that is zombie like in the game.

 

I know Madmole said that their "zombies" have a unique lore, something like World War Z, but at least don't call it a zombie game because it's not and the "zombies" in World War Z are not zombies, they are just infected people that bite other people to spread the disease, because they feel driven to spread the disease thanks to the virus they are infected with. So if I am infected with a virus that makes me bite people...that makes me a zombie? No, end of story. You can't take a carbonara pasta recipe and add tomato sauce and call it carbonara pasta, because it is not. Feel free to eat the way you want, the sky is the limit and if you like carbonara base recipe + tomato sauce, go for it, but don't call it carbonara. Let's say I develop a racing game and it is meant to be a racing game, but after a lot of alphas I think: "Hmmm, let's add a combat system to the game, guns mounted on cars, special abilities, etc" which would totally make the game something else than what it was meant to be in the first place, now it is a racing-combat game, which was not meant to be when it was created.

 

Really now, zombies that are smart and avoid traps? Zombies that feel pain and grab their arm/leg when you hit them with the fireaxe or whatever? Zombies that are radiated? Zombies that puke (cops)? Zombies that punch/slap/hit you? A zombie is a living dead, it doesn't feel pain, it doesn't have special abilities and it is certainly not intelligent. Festering corpse is the name of a zombie, really? Corpse? Since when does a corpse feel pain?

 

I am very disappointed that you made all the normal zombies smart....the traps are totally worthless when you got a horde that can easily avoid them. "Hey, let's surround our base 360 degrees with traps so the "zombies" would walk into them". This is the only way to play A17. This should be a zombie apocalypse game, and it was meant to be so from the very beginning, at least change the description to "infected people apocalypse game" or whatever. Now you will say "It's too easy even with intelligent zombies, so, why take away the challenge? It would be too boring and easy". Well, you got cops, vultures, ferals, dogs, bears, radiated people, spiders and now you will get demolisher "zombie" in A18 plus Behemoth that may or may not come in future alphas...so if you complain about lack of challenge, then ask TFP to make more unique CREATURES, because they can't be called zombies. Plus the bandits are coming, so they will certainly be a challenge.

 

You have a right to agree or disagree with me, and before you bash me because of this criticism, you should know that I have the right to open my mouth and say my opinion, and I am in no way "butthurt". This is not an attack to TFP, just constructive criticism, treat it like that.

 

This is a pretty unpointed criticism. In land of the dead they used tools and the mechanic zombie hung out at the gas station and messed with the gas pump. A pain animation and sound gives the player feedback that you hurt them, to remove that feels like a bad idea just to pretend to be a zombie purist. What you need is a mod that beats down the AI to the point of lemmings I suppose. Most players find the fat cop interesting, it gives zombies a ranged attack a bit more believable than the zombie in quake 1 that tore his own flesh off and threw it at you.

 

Back to my opening sentence: What is your issue, is the game too hard with interesting AI or your immersion is broke because they play pain sounds? A zombie is anything that this mindless and likes to eat people. There is no standard lore of what a zombie is or isn't, so we make our own that gives the player good combat feedback and an increasing challenge without spawning 5000 zombies on day 200. Our zombies do not have any self preservation in mind, they walk off tall ledges again and get hurt taking damage. They keep coming if you remove limbs.

 

Anyhow, if every zombie or vampire movie had the same lore it would be pretty predictable and boring IMO. So we take creative license to do what we think makes the game more interesting. These radiated zombies were radiated humans before they turned. They had regenerative abilities in life from some kind of mutation effect from food or atmosphere. I just don't see the issue, its a fun game. End game cannot be dig a 200 meter trench and watch them all die.

[madmole]

Zombies, ghouls, super-mutants...call them whatever you like. They are 'the threat'. Games gotta have a threat that's fun and challenging. Sometimes you have to break from 'lore'. If the threat in 7D wasn't somewhat 'smart', you'd live on a roof and win the game on day 1. What's the point in that?

 

Anyway, you need to get over the semantics of the whole zombie lore thing...like there's rules for how zombies behave and scores on how well they do on SAT's. I mean, they retained motor control of their limbs and jaws...is it such a stretch that they retained some brain function as well? It's all just electrical impulses when you get down to it.

 

No its not a stretch that they might still react to pain. If they can see, hear, smell, taste then surely they can still feel a bit too. They do feel less and less with each hit and stop caring about it though.

[Kalex]

Neither Darth Vader is real, but just because he isn't real, that doesn't mean I can paint his armor pink and put it in the game and call it "Vader".

 

Umm, they actually did this.

[madmole]

I just told you, make normal zombies feel normal, but if you want a challenge, add unique "zombies". It's like you didn't even read the whole thing. At least I am not the only one that dislikes the horde night, which is completely sh.it, no offense to TFP. Well, you can't stay on the roof all the time because you need to go and hunt and scavenge, unless you want to use the creative menu to get yourself free meals.

 

So an option to disable BM and you are back on board?

[Adam the Waster]

I'm exited about new zombies in A18

[Sigil_Thane]

I've read what it is 5 times and my brain keeps deleting it because there is something very stupid about it I don't like.

 

@MadMole

Serious question: is it more that it's a dislike, because prefering a different API is totally valid, or is there something that seems backward/counter productive?

 

Note I'm avoiding using the term stupid... Trying to be productive here.

 

The Unity Engine natively supports it and there have been realworld tests that show it runs very well in most cases. ...I'm just trying to gather if it's even worth discussing legitimate points of confusion or if TFP is too tightly tied to DirectX currently.