Ricowan Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Managing hunger absolutely should get easy after a while. At first, getting good tools/weapons.armor is hard, but it becomes easier as you progress. At first, surviving packs of zombies/wolves/dogs is hard, but it becomes easier as you progress. At first, clearing a POI for a quest is hard, but it becomes easier as you progress. Etc. Managing hunger is never irrelevant, it just becomes easier to manage as you progress. Lots of other things get harder, like Blood Moon hordes and the constant need to prepare for them. Survival is still the main point of the game no matter how easy some of the subsystems get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestInPieces Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Managing hunger is never irrelevant, it just becomes easier to manage as you progress. Being able to exponentially stockpile food, which you can start doing in the first few days, and having to click on it every now and then, is not "managing" in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricowan Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Being able to exponentially stockpile food, which you can start doing in the first few days, and having to click on it every now and then, is not "managing" in the first place. Of course it is. The food doesn't just magically appear in your damn chests. You have to go out and loot, hunt, cook, etc. If you don't do those things, food doesn't stockpile. If you want to spend all your time mining, you don't have time to gather and prepare food. If you want to spend all your time building a fort and the materials needed for the fort, you don't have time to gather and prepare food. You have to MANAGE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicUs5000 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 I'm not sure what the fascination is with caves Personally, I don't care if caves are added back in or not. The only way I might get excited about it is if it meant some new zombie came along with them. Otherwise, I just see them as a big hole where resources could have been instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechanicalLens Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Of course it is. The food doesn't just magically appear in your damn chests. You have to go out and loot, hunt, cook, etc. If you don't do those things, food doesn't stockpile. If you want to spend all your time mining, you don't have time to gather and prepare food. If you want to spend all your time building a fort and the materials needed for the fort, you don't have time to gather and prepare food. You have to MANAGE. Personally, and I'll keep this short as I don't want to get into any confrontations here, in my opinion, food collection should be one of your primary concerns for the first week, but after you've got a substantial farm set up (day 14+) then food should being to progressively become a less of a worry to the player. The main issue here is when it comes to animal spawning, it's really a mixed bag of results. Either RNG is going to be kind to you and supply you with a dozen or more animals on day one, or you'll struggle to have enough food to comfortably stay alive for multiple days, and everywhere in between. Therefore, messing with animal spawn rates might be a no-go, but if this was done, increasing the amount of food you find within Shamway food containers could be used to balance it out. Again though, this is all hypothetical, and this is all my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieHorde Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Don't do it if you don't like it. There will be gatherer quests so if you don't like gathering 100 corn and potatoes, or 5k wood, etc then don't do those either. We want to cater to every play style in quests, not just FPS players. Hi MM. I made a suggestion a few days ago in relation to that discussion about Tier 4 & 5 building loot, but this can also be adapted to quests from the trader. How about some PI type quests? So the trader asks you to gather some information for him or sends you on a quest to gather evidence of (in the original example I gave) MM's first love? I'll put the original mention below, but again, you can change this to suit trader quests: The game is already rewarding with action, looting, leveling up, tasks, etc, but there's nothing that really satisfies a cerebral workout. What I'm imagining is: to turn off the turrets or whatever the trap is, you need to access a computer terminal where it asks you a quiz based on things around the building or maybe found in loot. Maybe even the questions can extend beyond the building, so for example "town to the North of here", which sends you on a trip to get that name. So you get to the computer terminal and it asks you to login. You see the login name is Madmole so you have to find Madmole's desk or Madmole himself (corpse or zombie) to get his password off him. Then the app to turn off the trap asks for another password, but this one you can get a hint for, and that hint is maybe 'the love of my life', in which you might have to find a photo or note in a locker/desk/corpse/zombie. Make it interesting by adding a bit of sleuthing and find multiple notes, and you have to sus out the right one. Note 1: "Remember anniversary present for Mrs Madmole" Note 2: "Madmole, Ms Wantsmadmole called 20 times to say she's looking forward to dinner tonight - receptionist" Note 3: "Tonight's workout - ma glutes. Loves me ma glutes." So based on certain factors you can find around the area, you find an expensive anniversary present = most likely it's his wife. Find a ring (therefore it's off his finger) so it's Ms Wantsmadmole. Find a Mr. Muscle magazine that Madmole has doodled love hearts in, then it's his glutes. Maybe for 5th tier buildings it asks another few questions, but you get the idea. Tier 3 buildings could have a computer terminal as well, but this one only requires you to find Madmole's access card, which is used to log in to his computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestInPieces Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Of course it is. The food doesn't just magically appear in your damn chests. You have to go out and loot, hunt, cook, etc. If you don't do those things, food doesn't stockpile. If you want to spend all your time mining, you don't have time to gather and prepare food. If you want to spend all your time building a fort and the materials needed for the fort, you don't have time to gather and prepare food. You have to MANAGE. Saying that you have to manage food beyond the early game is laughable, when you can easily stockpile food for a month and forget about it during that time. This can hardly be called "resource management" - just a periodic grind, after which, food becomes irrelevant for a large amount of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 Kind Sir, there is no such thing as "too much Minecraft" Everything beneath 1k Hours in the game is a Tutorial. Not trying to get into a debate there just isn't any reason to play it more than 2 hours to get the best gear and be set for life, unless you just like to play with tinker toys. Its a fun sandbox, but as a game its pretty lacking in goals, quests, reasons to survive, story, realism, immersion, etc. I enjoy it, and I don't know how many hours I had, but it doesn't have that Bethesda type appeal where you want to start a new character with a new story, new abilities, gear, npc friends etc which are the types of games I might get 1000's of hours in. I probably built my nice castle with rail mining system over the course of 100-200 hours max, but never felt compelled to play again after I'd done everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 As far as I know the major issues with adding caves are SI and placement, feel free to correct me on that. Solve those two and you have an entirely unique biome to play with for relatively little extra work. This would also open the way for artificial underground systems such as sewers, something that has appeared in TWD as both a character crucible and a plot device. Even sketching out a working system will give the modders something to hook into and then the ever faithful cry of "just mod it" can be used. Underground provides a different set of challenges when compared to an overground. Can't jump out of a window to save your arse in a mine. :-) Has any thought been given to providing the SI system with the concept of an arch? Not the shape, the engineering principle. You can redirect a lot of force around an object or space with the correct use of arches. I know it'll make SI calculations a little slower but with a bit of forethought you can avoid a lot of the calculations where they're unneeded. Performance, why is this simple scene laggy? (there is a complex sewer/cave network you can't even see rendering, adding to chunk building time, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieHorde Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Feature request: Can random quests be given/accepted at random locations on the map? Example: In front of a laundromat lies a corpse with a quest note to be accepted or declined: “ I accidentally left a wad of cash in my trousers to be dry cleaned. Can you drop by laundromat and get it for me? -Dad” Fact is, I love quests but hate the long travel. Stumbling across a quest during exploration is much more immersive. Hey, that's a great idea. +1 for this. Thinking about all of these quests, I wonder if there are any plans on making some quests with it's own penalties, like in FallOut 3 with the city with the bomb? Option of disarming it or setting it off type options? So do a quest 1 way = some otherwise ally hating you Do it the other way = the different guy becomes your ally ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 Madmole I read your reply about mobile quests and hope you can do it for the future releases. Reading your posts it looks like you are taking it to the next level of "Full buildable/destructable environtment" finding realtime purpose for every ingame object. One of the main compliments I've read on reviews is there is so much you can do and interact with. For the quests, as an example, the destroyed benches and mixers. If they as an object had a placeholder attached, and each slot was basically a mod. "Mechanical parts, electrical parts, forged iron/steel or scrap, Wood, Nails, engine, spring, engine. Basically the normal resources to build a full, Bench or mixer. If these were in a randomized array, for part and quantity. When highlighted or opened, it could display, the missing part and quantity. This would be a quest of a sort, but with out dialog. So if you found one close to a perm or temp camp location. You could find or use looted resources, to temporarily repair them. Set a degradation of those resources at higher rate. Then again randomize what it needs to function again. Would an additonal placeholder file be needed for this to work? Would this create excessive calculations on cpu? I ask about this because once a forge, bench, mixer are built presently, they seem to have a permanent lifespan. Its a bunch of work just to go into the next POI and find a perfectly good working one. You can find functioning workstations if you look for them. However the quest reset can reset the POI into a broken version, so it already kind of does what you are suggesting, without a ton of new work. We have to be super careful about new tasks or we'll be in alpha another 3 years. A18 is playing great, none of this stuff is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 Of course I will. I already put 1300+ hours into this game and convinced a friend to play this game with me. We are eager to play another 200+ with A18. Any plans to overhaul Steam achievements? I think with all this changes and balancing to come it would be almost impossible to get e.g. Warrior (GS500) or Survivalist (GS1000)..... EDIT: There is a game (I think NEO Scavenger) which solves this the way you say. There is a spoilage counter which decomposes only one piece of the whole stack. If it's spoiled, then the second starts and so on.. So if you have a stack of 10, and every 24hours one spoils, the stack lasts 10 days but constantly depletes. No plans to touch steam achievements until we're closer to gold so we can come up with relevant ones. UNtil then its a moving target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 This system would also encourage players to get into electricity, as a powered fridge could be used to slow down or even remove food spoilage. Lets not derail the thread with food spoilage again, go re-read the thread if your that into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 I saw some talk of clip vs magazine a few pages back and it reminds me of a similar issue regarding the machete. The model used for the machete more resembles a Khukuri, a curved blade used by the Gurkhas. Could we perhaps see an additional bladed weapon that's more true to form for the machete in the next alpha? I'm a expert nitpicker =) Probably a katana or sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gronk Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Performance, why is this simple scene laggy? (there is a complex sewer/cave network you can't even see rendering, adding to chunk building time, etc.) Wouldn't that be solvable with occlusion culling? I'm curious if any PVP players use this feature to locate underground bases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 Hi MM. I made a suggestion a few days ago in relation to that discussion about Tier 4 & 5 building loot, but this can also be adapted to quests from the trader. How about some PI type quests? So the trader asks you to gather some information for him or sends you on a quest to gather evidence of (in the original example I gave) MM's first love? I'll put the original mention below, but again, you can change this to suit trader quests: Its already in, those are love letters in the fetch quest boxes We might, but its best to come up with new game play and mechanics rather than just new seasoning on the same sham sandwich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FileMachete Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 I'm sure I'm not the only one here who also plays Empryion, which has food spoilage. With that experiance does spoilage really add much to the later game? Sure in EGS I'd say it does add some complexity to early game, and makes farming more important, but to be fair, EGS's food/health/farming systems are a bigger part of the early game gameplay. And EGS also uses fridges/food-processors as a significant energy sink; something I really don't see 7dtd doing. I don't think 7dtd was ever intended to have a highly realistic food/hunger/health system. If it did then we'd have to be a lot more nomadic than has ever been needed, due to all food resources being used up. And, at least in my survival gaming experiance, it's much easier to wind up with a system that is annoying instead of fun, and burns a lot of dev time to wind up with a complex system that doesn't add much, for most, 'fun' wise. IMO of course Guess I'm more inclined to hope TFPs budget what dev times remains before Gold towards other things like more traps or new guns, more block shapes, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 Hey, that's a great idea. +1 for this. Thinking about all of these quests, I wonder if there are any plans on making some quests with it's own penalties, like in FallOut 3 with the city with the bomb? Option of disarming it or setting it off type options? So do a quest 1 way = some otherwise ally hating you Do it the other way = the different guy becomes your ally ??? Just wait for Duke and Noah quests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieHorde Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Please someone explain what is going on here. I want to duplicate this so bad. If I do I’ll paint A18 on the side of the Mellon and video it to share. Gronk...you must know... Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 Wouldn't that be solvable with occlusion culling? I'm curious if any PVP players use this feature to locate underground bases. No because occlusion culling slows the game down for potato computers, and speeds it up for people with good ones. There is an option to disable it for people where it actually makes it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechanicalLens Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 In A17.4, RWG towns are in a grid-like pattern, usually with one in the center and with other towns along perfect paths along the edges. I'm just curious if RWG town placement in A18 will follow similar patterns (or patterns in general), or if their locations will be randomized? No specifics are needed in an answer, I'm just wondering. It would be nice to just pick a direction again and not knowing if you'll find a town/another town or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Performance, why is this simple scene laggy? (there is a complex sewer/cave network you can't even see rendering, adding to chunk building time, etc.) Isn't that what occlusion is for? - - - Updated - - - No because occlusion culling slows the game down for potato computers, and speeds it up for people with good ones. There is an option to disable it for people where it actually makes it worse. I see you answered, can you explain why it would slow a computer down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rassilon Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Not trying to get into a debate there just isn't any reason to play it more than 2 hours to get the best gear and be set for life, unless you just like to play with tinker toys. Its a fun sandbox, but as a game its pretty lacking in goals, quests, reasons to survive, story, realism, immersion, etc. I enjoy it, and I don't know how many hours I had, but it doesn't have that Bethesda type appeal where you want to start a new character with a new story, new abilities, gear, npc friends etc which are the types of games I might get 1000's of hours in. I probably built my nice castle with rail mining system over the course of 100-200 hours max, but never felt compelled to play again after I'd done everything. Just tried an Analogy with 7 Days, thats all im getting close to 3k hours on 7 days and i aint see it stopping. I might have 300 or 400 hours in minecraft, but as you yourself stated: starting over with a new character (and for me new rwg map ) is all the fun and replay value i need. I did a break of 3 months recently from 7 Days ( A17 just didnt "do" it for me) and now im back, preparing my server for A18 and having real fun and anticipation for your game. Something i never had with Minecraft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipClaw Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Will there be more skyscrapers in RWG in A18 ? I had some 8k maps created in A17.4 and always had a maximum of 3 skyscrapers and that was mostly the construction site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerfly Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Probably a katana or sword. Oh, katana man, brings old memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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