Steam reviews - I kinda figured

[Drunkwolf]

whats wrong with the skill system? you kill zombies, you level up, you get perks. it seems pretty straight forward. do people not want to kill zombies in a zombie game?

[lazerblade01]

whats wrong with the skill system? you kill zombies, you level up, you get perks. it seems pretty straight forward. do people not want to kill zombies in a zombie game?

 

You're completely missing the point. Of course people want to kill zombies in a zombie game. But many people feel that if you do something else, like wrench apart a car, you should get better at wrenching apart cars. You shouldn't spend hours killing zombies to get better at wrenching apart cars. It's illogical.

[Ornias]

whats wrong with the skill system? you kill zombies, you level up, you get perks. it seems pretty straight forward. do people not want to kill zombies in a zombie game?

 

There is zero depth to it. In Skyrim to be a sneak archer, I had to sneak and shoot a bow. Now in 7DTD I need to smack zombies in the face and click on magical skill up buttons every level. 7DTD went from something unique and great to just another shooter game with bad shooting mechanics.

[WolfyBlah]

There is zero depth to it. In Skyrim to be a sneak archer, I had to sneak and shoot a bow. Now in 7DTD I need to smack zombies in the face and click on magical skill up buttons every level. 7DTD went from something unique and great to just another shooter game with bad shooting mechanics.

 

So much this.

The gunplay and melee systems in this game have never been great, a17 is a little better in this regard but its still worse as a shooter/action game than killingfloor, a game that came out 10 years ago.

And making a comparsion to the more modern killingfloor2... its leauges of diffrence.

[SurvivalUK]

If steam sales and humble bundle sales have such power then why did we never see it manifested? What is the difference now?

I specially mentioned the Humble Bundle subscription, not sales. Estimates put the Humble subscribers at around 300k to 350k (link). So my comment related to that additional player count* that got the game in November (link), i'm a subscribers so have another 7 Days key spare.

 

*Not saying everyone redeemed or even played the game in those numbers. I'm a subscribers and i've quite a few keys i've never bothered redeeming because i've no interest in the games (still managed to clock in 640+ Steam games lol).

 

Average / Peak players

Oct : 6447 / 11,389

Nov : 10,160 / 27,328 <-- Humble subscribers get the early unlock of 7DTD

Dec : 13,767 / 28,105

 

I do think the sales contribute to player numbers but not the active player base. 7DTD is reasonably niche so despite increasing units shipped its active players don't directly scale, it's a Marmite thing. Dedicated players pour 100's if not 1000's of hours into the game. Casual players try it and don't stick around. During time between patches the active players fall off after fatigue sets in and the hardcore remain.

 

I think both sides are using plenty of critical thinking.

Absolutely, but i stand by my comment that there are people who blindly nod no manner what. Nature of the beast on both sides.

 

Everyone is going to interpret the numbers that will make them feel better about their agenda. As long as we all recognize that interpretation is simply guessing and hoping by that individual and not the truth then it’s fine.

Again i agree fully, people take the numbers and add their slant to suit the narrative. I'd love to see to black and white analytics of player data but it's not going to happen, we only have broad strokes to interpret.

 

Some of you are hoping that A17 fails to the point that the devs feel they MUST go back to A16. That’s your agenda and so all interpretations of numbers reflect the narrative that A17 is failing and if the devs stick with it they are doomed and didn’t listen to the right group of customers. Of course the other part of that narrative is that others who claim to like A17 need to be marginalized as simple minded sycophants who like anything and everything the devs put out.

I don't think anyone actually wants A17 to fail and rollback to A16, people can already do that. What seems to be a running theme of those with a negative slant (myself included) is that A17 is a big departure away from the gameplay style of A16 but not in a good way. There are positive within A17 but the negatives far out weigh them (not treading that ground again, covered plenty). So for me i'd like to see a lot of the core mechanics from A16 in an A17 redux release and a lot of the gameplay direction of the initial A17 release thrown out.

 

Anyway, 11:45pm here in the UK so will cut this post short to welcome the New Year in

 

All the best people!

[Viktoriusiii]

Well I know TFP's failure is yours and several others' greatest hope because you believe it will force them to change things back to your preferences. People have been predicting the failure of the game at every single update when something changes that they didn't like only to realize they didn't represent the majority after all (not that they would ever admit this). I'm not going to predict a harsher drop off or the longest run of 20k+ players. I'm simply going to say we will have to wait and see. TFP is waiting and seeing. Quick harsh drop off and loss of interest might indeed mean that for the first time TFP is out of touch with what most of their players want. Watching what happens during the next 2-3 months will be interesting indeed.

 

As others have said:

Nobody wants TFPs to fail. But they literally changed most of the game and when people told them that those things are not a positive change for most of the playerbase, they (MM Gazz and in the beginning, you) acted like a spoiled child and doubled down, calling them "small part of the playerbase" "kneejerk reactions" and "haters"/"Get gud" and more.

I'm not saying those didn't exist. I crossed the line once or more as well. But the main points were completely ignored and discarded by saying "just a small minority". So now I'm happy that there are lots of dislikes coming in.

If one dislike is enough to show them, I take that. If it takes 1000 I take that too.

 

unimportant rambling:

 

 

And as many have stated, A16 (while flawed) was a unique experience, now its a washed down version of itself. No matter how much you polish it, its still washed down. No amount of polishing and rebalancing will make this system as immersive and unintrusive as a learning by doing system.

And again to clarify: If they were like "Hey guys, we have super duper plans for this game and here they are: *insert 10000 characters of explanation*

sadly we can not do all that at once so we will change parts of it first and do the second part next, give us your feedback please." nobody would be as upset.

Maybe there would be some outcry, there would be feedback and tries to pursuade them to change course.

 

But they didn't. They completely changed the game for seemingly no reason and when called out, they ignored us.

This is why we need more open communication.

Unholyjoe hinted at how heatedly discussed the future for this game is...

but I still don't know what the plans with perks are and why they would dumb down (or "streamlined" or "made it more straightforward") such an intricate system.

They don't tell us. Is there a future feature planned like npcs that then can have these perks but the old system wasnt suited to that?

 

[r1cochet]

Here's my two sense. I have approximately 1500 hours into the game. I have been playing it for years and still love it. I have been reading some of the reviews saying how they just trashed the game. WTH???? I think everything looks much better. The houses/ towns are pretty cool. Love the hidden treasures and have to really put some props out to the devs for the new Zeds AI. Love that they aren't so dumb...huh what a zombie is smart.. hell no but many of the old tricks to stopping them are gone.... very nice. I am playing my first A17 game and just encountered the first blood moon. I was playing it just like the old days and thought let me go downstairs and see how my house is holding up when I was totally startled as a horde chased me back upstairs...Freakin hilarious.

 

So my final thought is give the game some time. I believe the DEVs did a great job. I will be sticking around.

[Roland]

That's great that people profess to not want TFP to fail but when I see posts of people stating that they would like to play 7 Days but are holding off because they don't want their stat to contribute to the numbers who are playing that is pretty transparent. And it has moved from people stating their own opinion of what they don't like to outright hoping that the number of people who like A17 will diminish instead of grow.

 

Those of you who are upset by the changes, can you honestly tell me that if the steam charts showed a surge to 40k players and maintained at that level for the next month that you wouldn't feel disappointed by that? It seems that those of you who want TFP to change their progression back to automatic gains as you take actions, you can't just state for the record that you don't like the current system and you'd like it reverted. You have to also pair it with the demise of the company and the game failing if they don't do as you say.

 

Well, for 17 alphas now it has been the same thing. Some people refuse to adapt to the new way and they all predict that this will be the last alpha if 7 Days to Die isn't put back the way they (and all their friends, neighbors, family, and every server population they've met) want it. And yet the game has endured and gotten better. It is better now than it ever has been in my opinion and all I can say is that I would be very congratulatory and happy if the game increased to 40k.

 

So there are definitely some who maybe don't want TFP to fail but they wouldn't be happy to see them succeed with A17 in its current form and they won't likely celebrate if more and more people continue to adapt/ get used to/ come to enjoy A17 and continue to push TFP to greater success.

[Hek Harris]

As others have said:

Nobody wants TFPs to fail. But they literally changed most of the game and when people told them that those things are not a positive change for most of the playerbase, they (MM Gazz and in the beginning, you) acted like a spoiled child and doubled down, calling them "small part of the playerbase" "kneejerk reactions" and "haters"/"Get gud" and more.

Seriously ? Is there still a place on this forum where you haven't vomited on the work of the devs? You troll all the topics to repeat constantly that the devs did a ♥♥♥♥ty job, you attack the moderation, you make fun of the players who appreciate the alpha 17, and now you allow yourself to call them spoiled children?

There is a huge difference between discussing the choices made by the devs - and I think everything that has been said will be taken into account - and rotting a development team like you do.

Mind your manners, dude: Alpha 16 you love so much has been built by TFP. You know, those guys that you can not stop trampling. Alpha 17 needs to be revised and a lot of things need to be redesigned, but closing your mouth should be the first step.

Thank you for letting everyone breathe even if I know you won't.

[Corky]

Hi,

 

First time poster here. I'm glad to hear the developers are making balance changes. I've got over 600 hours in A16. Never once did I care about exp or leveling up in A16. I just played the game. I'm hoping that makes a come back in A17.

 

Thanks!

Corky

[SaintPhillip]

I doubt anyone wants to see failure- I mean maybe those people exist but they are the exception and not the rule.

 

I'm not even playing 7d2d and have always been against even signing up to post on this forum even though ive been with the game since around 2014 and clocked well over 1000 hours playing. I'm here (against my better judgment) because I feel ive lost my favorite game which has been morphing into something soul-less and unfun.

 

Its been changing (for the worse) for a long time but when a16 dropped you could see a clear direction and it would have been a decent enough foundation to build upon and end up with a fantastic and fun experience. A 17 bulldozed what was there and took away more than it offered.

 

You came into my sandbox and took my toys and then kicked sand in my eyes lol

 

I think much of the feedback that might seem as if they want the fun pimps top fail should be taken as people who love the game (what it once was or was heading for) and do not want to see them fail- Failure being subjective as well because imho even if they keep streamlining this into an action shooter the people they lose like myself will be replaced by the masses..This is why the numbers really mean nothing at this point imho.

 

Failure to me already happened since I do not like the game anymore- Its not about numbers of players or P&L statements as far as im concerned.

 

Anyway,I came here not to point fingers or pretend that if they cannot see things my way they will fail hard and i'll laugh. I'm here because I loved the game and where it was going and I dont like it at all anymore and since the devs dont use the steam forums I want to be heard. Thats it. No wishing failure on anyone its more advocating for what I want- If they dont listen or act like jerks ill just move on and will no doubt be replaced by other players.

[stupid]

 

The problem with your argument is that this is their game. Sure they can be cool and allow tons of options but they have 100 percent right to say "No i don't want a player to hide underground, if you don't like that YOU go play something else or design your own game".

 

Is it right? I don't know. As a mod developer you better believe the mod I put out is the one i WANT people to play as is. I can't stop them from modding it themselves but i sure as hell can decide WHAT is in my mod and WHAT the rules are. I can take feedback into account but ultimately you have NO say in what my mod becomes.

 

Is that even my argument? I said it was stupid to bottleneck playstyles in a sandbox game, and doing so is one of the reasons their steam score tanked. That's called giving feedback. Of course it's their game and they can do whatever the hell they want with it.

[Ranzera]

I don't know about how others feel, but I'll tell you this. I'm not playing because I'm not having fun with this. I have more games that I've been meaning to play than I could ever realistically have time for. I certainly don't owe you or anyone else my time (you already got my money anyway).

 

Would I be disappointed? I'll be honest, yeah kinda. Not in a vindictive way though. It would be a signal that yet another thing has moved on without me as has happened so many times before. D&D, FFXI, Eve Online, Pathfinder... and a lot more than I can even remember anymore. I'm tired of falling in love and being left in the dust.

 

I don't like this trend in gaming to handhold the player. I don't like trying to appeal to everyone. I like picking one thing, doing it well and improving on it. This whole "let's be Fallout with voxels" thing rings hollow for me. All the WoW clones failed for a reason.

[Katitof]

That's great that people profess to not want TFP to fail but when I see posts of people stating that they would like to play 7 Days but are holding off because they don't want their stat to contribute to the numbers who are playing that is pretty transparent. And it has moved from people stating their own opinion of what they don't like to outright hoping that the number of people who like A17 will diminish instead of grow.

 

Those of you who are upset by the changes, can you honestly tell me that if the steam charts showed a surge to 40k players and maintained at that level for the next month that you wouldn't feel disappointed by that? It seems that those of you who want TFP to change their progression back to automatic gains as you take actions, you can't just state for the record that you don't like the current system and you'd like it reverted. You have to also pair it with the demise of the company and the game failing if they don't do as you say.

 

Well, for 17 alphas now it has been the same thing. Some people refuse to adapt to the new way and they all predict that this will be the last alpha if 7 Days to Die isn't put back the way they (and all their friends, neighbors, family, and every server population they've met) want it. And yet the game has endured and gotten better. It is better now than it ever has been in my opinion and all I can say is that I would be very congratulatory and happy if the game increased to 40k.

 

So there are definitely some who maybe don't want TFP to fail but they wouldn't be happy to see them succeed with A17 in its current form and they won't likely celebrate if more and more people continue to adapt/ get used to/ come to enjoy A17 and continue to push TFP to greater success.

 

Adding to that, its not even that people do not like current changes, its the fact that these people can't rush to end game within first week through grinding same action over and over anymore.

 

They complain about need to grind, while completely ignoring the fact that its exactly what they had to do before, just a pace was different.

 

Every single alpha there are people crying out loud how it was oh so much better in previous alpha and every single alpha these people can be ignored, players who bought the game number rises and the game gets better.

 

Thing with vocal minority is exactly that - they are vocal and for whatever reason believe that if other people do not act up and oppose them directly, they all agree with them, which couldn't be further from truth and that approach of all the "last alpha was superior" people was proven wrong at least 10 times now.

[Ornias]

I, for one, do not wish the FP's to fail. I have played this game for over a thousand hours, more than any other except for D2. This patch took an intricate system of learning by doing, combined with scavenging for knowledge, into a simple kill fest. Period. I find it extremely boring after about 30 minutes. No longer do I have to scavenge for knowledge, I just shoot a pistol into the air and wait for the "knowledge" to come to me. The new POI's are great, the quests are pointless until you get a vehicle at which point you don't need the quests. It just feels like y'all have removed 99% of the depth of the game. I know why you did it, casuals will always outnumber the harder core players, and cash is king. I do give you guys full props for allowing us to play to older alphas though as it what I will be playing until the modders patch this alpha.

[Ranzera]

Adding to that, its not even that people do not like current changes, its the fact that these people can't rush to end game within first week through grinding same action over and over anymore.

 

They complain about need to grind, while completely ignoring the fact that its exactly what they had to do before, just a pace was different.

 

Every single alpha there are people crying out loud how it was oh so much better in previous alpha and every single alpha these people can be ignored, players who bought the game number rises and the game gets better.

 

Thing with vocal minority is exactly that - they are vocal and for whatever reason believe that if other people do not act up and oppose them directly, they all agree with them, which couldn't be further from truth and that approach of all the "last alpha was superior" people was proven wrong at least 10 times now.

 

Maybe some people feel that way. I think A16 had a good balance. Yeah the AI was busted, that needed fixing. I don't think anyone disagrees on that point.

 

A16s Hybrid "Perk by Doing" system was excellent. So people thought we got stuff too soon. That's not a flaw of that system. That's a flaw of the balance within that system. You could gate the forge the same way it gated cement mixers, chemistry stations and the workbench. You could change how fast you gained skill exp or level exp. But instead of fixing a good system, they threw it out as they always do.

[HerrKingsley]

Nothing is going to be proved one way or another until at least February.

 

Alpha 17 probably won’t be viewed as beloved until Alpha 18 is released

 

Well I sure as hell hope a17.4 is more beloved than a16.4.

Then we can start talking about nostalgia!

Otherwise a more beloved a17 than a18 would be a very sad future.

 

Adding to that, its not even that people do not like current changes, its the fact that these people can't rush to end game within first week through grinding same action over and over anymore.

 

They complain about need to grind, while completely ignoring the fact that its exactly what they had to do before, just a pace was different.

 

If something feels tedious it is because of the pace.

And THATS what ppl has been complaining about. The PACE!

 

I haven't seen a single post on anyone wanting spamcrafting because they want to reach end game first week. They want the immersion of learning by doing.

 

Also i haven't seen a single post where ppl say they want to rush to end game.

What ppl are saying is that they want a better pace and more end game content not a slower pace on already available content.

 

But i guess you chose to misinterpret that to prove a point.

[HerrKingsley]

Maybe some people feel that way. I think A16 had a good balance. Yeah the AI was busted, that needed fixing. I don't think anyone disagrees on that point.

 

A16s Hybrid "Perk by Doing" system was excellent. So people thought we got stuff too soon. That's not a flaw of that system. That's a flaw of the balance within that system. You could gate the forge the same way it gated cement mixers, chemistry stations and the workbench. You could change how fast you gained skill exp or level exp. But instead of fixing a good system, they threw it out as they always do.

 

Ppl who claims you "won" a16 first week seem to forget that STEEL was gated behind crucible which was gated by:

Tool smithing: 6

Weapon smithing: 4

Science: 3

Which was gated by player lvl 40.

So unless you used some of the obviously broken game mechanics there was no way to gain that over 380000xp you needed to hit player level 40.

Or was I missing a non-cheese way?

[Greymantle]

Well I sure as hell hope a17.4 is more beloved than a16.4.

Then we can start talking about nostalgia!

Otherwise a more beloved a17 than a18 would be a very sad future.

 

 

 

If something feels tedious it is because of the pace.

And THATS what ppl has been complaining about. The PACE!

 

I haven't seen a single post on anyone wanting spamcrafting because they want to reach end game first week. They want the immersion of learning by doing.

 

Also i haven't seen a single post where ppl say they want to rush to end game.

What ppl are saying is that they want a better pace and more end game content not a slower pace on already available content.

 

But i guess you chose to misinterpret that to prove a point.

 

Pace? You can control the pace yourself with a simple edit and or modlet. Why something that simple is ignored and instead they choose to come here and complain? Let's all go back to crafting 5k stone axes again now that was pace.

[Greymantle]

Is that even my argument? I said it was stupid to bottleneck playstyles in a sandbox game, and doing so is one of the reasons their steam score tanked. That's called giving feedback. Of course it's their game and they can do whatever the hell they want with it.

 

Steam score tanked? Their overall rating is 79% if that is tanked what is not tanked? I would go by the 52k plus that like the game over the last 30 days 1k plus that like the game less at 55%.

[HerrKingsley]

Pace? You can control the pace yourself with a simple edit and or modlet. Why something that simple is ignored and instead they choose to come here and complain? Let's all go back to crafting 5k stone axes again now that was pace.

 

Hey greymantle. Happy new year!

Well we all know you think that everything that can be modded shouldn't be discussed on this forum.

So the pace of 5k stone axes isnt a problem for you either, just mod it. Right?!

[Jugginator]

Ppl who claims you "won" a16 first week seem to forget that STEEL was gated behind crucible which was gated by:

Tool smithing: 6

Weapon smithing: 4

Science: 3

Which was gated by player lvl 40.

So unless you used some of the obviously broken game mechanics there was no way to gain that over 380000xp you needed to hit player level 40.

Or was I missing a non-cheese way?

 

IT was very easy to hit steel by the first week lol. Everything was too easy in the game, and honestly a forge wasn't even needed to be an op god anyway. Hell, steel just turned you into.. god^2? You didn't have to worry about food/water, you had all of that in moments, a wooden base was fine for insane difficulty, and if you wanted to kill zombies for XP.... well, they just kinda stood around for you to kill em. Sure 17 xp for gathering and crafting is going to be tweaked, but you could easily grab steel reqs by the end of the week. Even faster co-op. Not that it was needed. If people think learn by doing was balanced easy in a 100% destructable (xp granting) world, then please do sugest it.

 

I did (amongst friends, too) try to balance it by modding XP gains / skill requirements / increasing costs / banning guns until day 35 / banning anything other than wood/iron for bases and none of that made anything more fun/rewarding. A somewhat blend of both may work, but A16 was nothing but a flower-field, coloring in the lines for a test easy mode.

[Greymantle]

Hey greymantle. Happy new year!

Well we all know you think that everything that can be modded shouldn't be discussed on this forum.

So the pace of 5k stone axes isnt a problem for you either, just mod it. Right?!

 

The difference from then and now is modelts didn't exist. Modlets make it simple to mod and yes I did mod it back then and no I didn't come to the forums and complain.

[HerrKingsley]

The difference from then and now is modelts didn't exist. Modlets make it simple to mod and yes I did mod it back then and no I didn't come to the forums and complain.

Complain about ppl complaining is still complaining

[Greymantle]

Complain about ppl complaining is still complaining

 

Sorry but find where I complain about people. I post solutions and simple solutions to their problems. I try to help but most would rather ignore and keep on complaining.