Steam reviews - I kinda figured

[DEADication]

We Aussies are a a funny lot, we write in proper English, but we sure as hell don't speak proper English.

[Guppycur]

I actually believe that it being alumium not alumum is a part of the reason why aluminium is considered correct and not aluminium. It's just how naming conventions usually work. I'm not certain about that but it does make sense with what I know about epistemology of language.

 

For that particular word, the original discovery was named alumium, then aluminum, then aluminium, all by the guy who was credited for finding it. Brits took a fancy to aluminium because it better rhymed with other elements. Yanks were on the fence for a while, then decided aluminum sufficed.

[Guppycur]

Yeaah exactly. But when you're grasping at straws...

 

Hey now, I'm trying to derail an argument, so no more of that. =)

[Dunkurtin]

I can't rep on mobile apparently, but I do think you did a good job defusing a situation that got more heated than ideal.

 

But I also think my original point, about the game no longer really reflecting what it is advertised as, is influencing the current steam reviews.

[Evorith]

How many more hours did you think A17 was going to give you? A17 is not an expansion pack that just adds content. Alot of the comments of boredom and tedium are coming from players with hundreds to thousands of hours under their belt. Here lies the negative part of participating in early access. (Getting too attached to features that are a work in progress)

 

I've been playing 7d2d since alpha 5 and every alpha continues to give me something new to enjoy. A big part of that is not over playing the game and taking breaks.

 

I've played single player, some pvp here and there, multiplayer pve (bartertown community server), small group coop sessions, and a large amount of time creating custom POIs for the community.

 

I will admit the larger scale multiplayer community frequently gets the shorter end of the stick with these large updates 1st drop. Which is not a surprise since the game is designed and balanced around small group cooperative play to begin with.

 

However , the dev's do listen to the community and give them some love when it's the right time. I hope they continue to expand on the game, especially in regards to multiplayer features as we all recognize the huge potential.

 

 

Funny all the Dev's and some of the player base have been saying don't just give up in the first few hours or so get into the guts of the game with all the perks and stuff, adjust your game play, which is what I did and now you say don't expect any more?

 

Well for one, an update that takes over a year to be done should be pretty sold. Most sandbox games if they are any good I get from 1k to 4k play out of them easy. So with this update I was hoping for more than just 60!

 

2 you missed the whole point of what I was saying which was I tried it their way wack a mole zomebie first person shooter A17 and it is simple and boring, Give me A16 with the new POI's gun's and wpn mods but with all the a16 parts and quality, the new Graphics and vehicles add a mixture of the new perks and stats but with the old style learning and xp remove the easy mode make chainsaws just because u leveled it. The old style crafting with the new work bench and I would get plenty more hours than 60.

 

And no the dev's are in shock, a bit upset that the update they have worked their butts off has upset a big % of the player base and instead of listening they came up with so many negative things to say about those that posted the neg reviews just shows u how upset they were. Which is just human nature. My biggest fear is they have moved so far away from were a16 is they will only fix it with little balances that don't actually address the major issues and it still wont be fixable. or playable!

[WolfyBlah]

Funny all the Dev's and some of the player base have been saying don't just give up in the first few hours or so get into the guts of the game with all the perks and stuff, adjust your game play, which is what I did and now you say don't expect any more?

 

Well for one, an update that takes over a year to be done should be pretty sold. Most sandbox games if they are any good I get from 1k to 4k play out of them easy. So with this update I was hoping for more than just 60!

 

2 you missed the whole point of what I was saying which was I tried it their way wack a mole zomebie first person shooter A17 and it is simple and boring, Give me A16 with the new POI's gun's and wpn mods but with all the a16 parts and quality, the new Graphics and vehicles add a mixture of the new perks and stats but with the old style learning and xp remove the easy mode make chainsaws just because u leveled it. The old style crafting with the new work bench and I would get plenty more hours than 60.

 

And no the dev's are in shock, a bit upset that the update they have worked their butts off has upset a big % of the player base and instead of listening they came up with so many negative things to say about those that posted the neg reviews just shows u how upset they were. Which is just human nature. My biggest fear is they have moved so far away from were a16 is they will only fix it with little balances that don't actually address the major issues and it still wont be fixable. or playable!

 

Your right to be concerned, we will never get the level of enjoyment from future alphas because this is the direction TFP have chosen, screw builders, screw depth and meaningful game mechanics, if you are not intrested in grinding XP or the new perk system then a17 has nothing for you.

[Lt.Edux]

The human being by default is ambitious, always trying to have the best. One of the things that I think that destroyed the game is related to that.

to remove the recipes, the qualities of things 1- 600, parts of weapons and tools like chainsaw or auger, I ruin one of the pillars of this game to my way of seeing, the exploration of houses, safes.

the fact of not knowing what to find in the exploration (depending on luck) gives a special touch of emotion when you find what you were looking for.

The Hordes no longer and they make sense, you do not get anything or almost nothing, after so much struggle and expenses of materials

In this alpha it's just a struggle with a bit of construction, in my particular case on the 70th day of a game and only 2 deaths was already boring and at 91 I left, something that did not happen to me with the previous alpha, 3000 hours of game they show it. before this alpha I recommended it, now I do not recommend it, just the opposite.

Sorry for my bad English

[WolfyBlah]

Strongly disagree with how extreme you think it should suck. If it sucks that bad people will quickly get frustrated and not want to spend 20-30 levels getting to the point that it doesn't completely suck. Early game the player should have a difficult time killing zombies and inconveniences to deal with like eating more often, but it shouldn't be tedious and painful unless you're playing on high difficulties. QoL/general improvement perks like slow metabolism should be good enough to be worth buying and remove some inconvenience but not so good to make the player an overpowered god. It's all about balance, not extremes.

 

Perks in general should be focused mostly on adding special abilities you otherwise don't have access to, like shotgun messiah adds stun chance, deep cuts adds bleeding etc. Not on needing to have 2-3 points in half of them just to get to some sort of baseline and make the game not completely suck. Not saying the perks are that bad atm, though stamina perks are at that point as of this latest version imo.

 

Been saying this for weeks, game needs to be fun instead of tedious in the early game, right now if you want yo do anything more than look at the new POIs (which not everyone likes, personally hate them) or fight zombies...

 

Leveling up providing bonuses is fine, those bonuses having such a massive effect isnt. Blance the game around player being level 1 and never taking any specific perks.

Resource gathering shouldn't be the holy mother of grind without motherload. Melee combat should be challanging throughout the game, not 5-6 hits without perks and 1-2 with them.

 

Perks dont have to be such stupidly high bonuses to be an effective progression system, less is more in this case.

[hotpoon]

While hiding you can dig which gives you progress (maybe not enough now, but hopefully after the balancing of xp is finished). If that isn't what you mean, can you give an example of a survival game where simply hiding gives you progress?

 

Dying Light awards you xp for being outside the safe zone and not getting killed. You don't have to do anything, you can hide somewhere until morning and you get points for not dying. That is probably the best example I can think of. Not that I'm advocating for that, but you asked.

 

My man likes to build underground bases and would often spend Horde Night mining for resources. With digging zombies, he won't be able to do that anymore, but I don't think it is a big issue. He could always come join me up topside to kill zombies and then go back down in the morning.

[Greymantle]

Your right to be concerned, we will never get the level of enjoyment from future alphas because this is the direction TFP have chosen, screw builders, screw depth and meaningful game mechanics, if you are not intrested in grinding XP or the new perk system then a17 has nothing for you.

 

Drama much? Go to the mod forums and mod the game how you want. If you like 16 so much there are mods to bring back your glory days.

 

If you don't like gates there is a mod to remove them. If you want more exp for crafting yes a mod. If you want the old perk system back yes a mod for that too.

[WolfyBlah]

I couldn't disagree more. If it doesn't suck to begin with then there is no reason to take the perk to make it better. IMO it HAS to SUCK and SUCK HARD at first.

 

If the game is unfun untill level xyz then a new player is either going to grind like ♥♥♥♥ to get to the actual fun part of the game or just go play somthing else, neither of these are good options.

 

Maybe we need another setting, that way those that like this stupid inverse difficulty can have it.

 

What im asking for is a balanced and fun game at level 1, perks can still offer damage boosts or whatever.

 

Its like people have pointed out repeatedly: are we new surviors or new born babies? Id prefer a game where the combat is fun on the first day or throughout the game regardless of perk choices instead of the "everything is a bullet sponge unless you 'choose' to take perks xyz".

 

Games getting harder as you progress is real progression, starting out ridiculously weak and the game getting ever easier because you level up is...lame.

 

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Drama much? Go to the mod forums and mod the game how you want. If you like 16 so much there are mods to bring back your glory days.

 

If you don't like gates there is a mod to remove them. If you want more exp for crafting yes a mod. If you want the old perk system back yes a mod for that too.

 

Some things simply cannot be modded back in and frankly, i do mod the game extensively just like everyone else, because i HAVE to, the vanilla game has gotten worse and worse every alpha and telling everyone to just mod thier game is not healthy for the community or the game.

[Greymantle]

If the game is unfun untill level xyz then a new player is either going to grind like ♥♥♥♥ to get to the actual fun part of the game or just go play somthing else, neither of these are good options.

 

Maybe we need another setting, that way those that like this stupid inverse difficulty can have it.

 

What im asking for is a balanced and fun game at level 1, perks can still offer damage boosts or whatever.

 

Its like people have pointed out repeatedly: are we new surviors or new born babies? Id prefer a game where the combat is fun on the first day or throughout the game regardless of perk choices instead of the "everything is a bullet sponge unless you 'choose' to take perks xyz".

 

Games getting harder as you progress is real progression, starting out ridiculously weak and the game getting ever easier because you level up is...lame.

 

In your opinion its not fun while others find it fun to struggle. What your fun is others find it boring. We could go on and on instead why don't you hit the mod forums and add or subtract what you don't like and enjoy the game like most of us are doing.

 

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If the game is unfun untill level xyz then a new player is either going to grind like ♥♥♥♥ to get to the actual fun part of the game or just go play somthing else, neither of these are good options.

 

Maybe we need another setting, that way those that like this stupid inverse difficulty can have it.

 

What im asking for is a balanced and fun game at level 1, perks can still offer damage boosts or whatever.

 

Its like people have pointed out repeatedly: are we new surviors or new born babies? Id prefer a game where the combat is fun on the first day or throughout the game regardless of perk choices instead of the "everything is a bullet sponge unless you 'choose' to take perks xyz".

 

Games getting harder as you progress is real progression, starting out ridiculously weak and the game getting ever easier because you level up is...lame.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

Some things simply cannot be modded back in and frankly, i do mod the game extensively just like everyone else, because i HAVE to, the vanilla game has gotten worse and worse every alpha and telling everyone to just mod thier game is not healthy for the community or the game.

 

Mods are part of the game like most games these days. If you don't like mods your missing out on the best part of this game. What would skyrim be without mods? Rimworld? Fallout? There is a great modding communty for this game go mix and match and enjoy.

[WolfyBlah]

In your opinion its not fun while others find it fun to struggle. What your fun is others find it boring. We could go on and on instead why don't you hit the mod forums and add or subtract what you don't like and enjoy the game like most of us are doing.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

Mods are part of the game like most games these days. If you don't like mods your missing out on the best part of this game. What would skyrim be without mods? Rimworld? Fallout? There is a great modding communty for this game go mix and match and enjoy.

 

Mods are supposed to be primarily about adding more content to the game and not making the base game balanced.

 

I have modded the game extensively since a11, im sick of re-writing XML to fix bad balance decsions or mechanics.

 

As it stands iv had to edit every single item recipe in the game every alpha release since crafting timers were forced.

As far as recommending the game to friends?

'Yeah buy it, but mod the hell out of it so you can get somthing close to the games former glory'

[HerrKingsley]

If you want the old perk system back yes a mod for that too.

 

Actually no. Jax is trying to revert the skill system but basically have to rewrite the whole code. And we still dont know if its even possible!

[meganoth]

If the game is unfun untill level xyz then

 

Maybe you should mention that that statement holds only for some players and is not a general truth. I like to play the early game, I know Roland likes to play the early game, I know at least one modder for whom the early game is still too comfortable and he rants about TFP making it too easy/comfortable again.

 

Actually no. Jax is trying to revert the skill system but basically have to rewrite the whole code. And we still dont know if its even possible!

 

Well, ultimately it shouldn't be too hard to convince TFP to add some crucial capabilities to XML, especially because even players who don't want the old skill system or the old idiot zombies or ... will gladly join in the call for getting more XML flexibility.

[WolfyBlah]

Maybe you should mention that that statement holds only for some players and is not a general truth. I like to play the early game, I know Roland likes to play the early game, I know at least one modder for whom the early game is still too comfortable and he rants about TFP making it too easy/comfortable again.

 

 

 

Well, ultimately it shouldn't be too hard to convince TFP to add some crucial capabilities to XML, especially because even players who don't want the old skill system or the old idiot zombies or ... will gladly join in the call for getting more XML flexibility.

 

I didnt claim that it was the same across all players, just pointing out that I (and probably some others) dont enjoy the early game much. Im always in favor of options and options around progression speed (XP multiplying) could offset a lot of this.

[Viktoriusiii]

Promoting team play over PvP is the right way to go, so you are blatantly wrong.

 

Sure... but either you have to rebalance it for singleplayer (which doesnt exist anymore, since every server is multiplayer now) or you CANNOT GIVE 12x xp to a group of 4 people. That is insanity. Give them a total of 1.3x maybe 2.0x when beeing in a massive group. 12x IS a gamebreaker.

 

 

 

 

Hiding is a survival option thought. Saying it isn't shows a complete lack of the core concept of the survival genre. Survival and sandbox go hand in hand when it comes to game mechanics. This isn't primarily a survival game anymore with the direction tfp are taking. It is an action game with light survival aspects.

 

Yup. Hiding should be an option. Just not 100% safe. And as hordenight is specifically there to once a week CHALLENGE your hiding tactic, beeing 100% safe is an exploit, therefor it should be fixed.

[meganoth]

Thats my point, stop being so damn dense. This is not advertised as a tower defence. It is advertised as having some aspects, in that you build a tower and defend it, and if you look at an entire MP map it kind of resembles a tower defense game. It's not one though, not in its current form, and it has never been advertised as on in the entire time it has been on steam.

 

EDIT: If you think this is/has ever been advertised as a tower defence game, you probably have never played a tower defence game.

 

Because if survival and crafting are no longer primary aspects of the game (they aren't) then they shouldn't be using them as their primary descriptors. Maybe the banner should say action horde tower defence game going forward.

 

Sorry, but reading both those posts either my reading level is too low or you are contradicting yourself. In the first post you clearly say that now 7d2d is NOT a tower defense game. In the second post you clearly say it IS.

 

Your main point is the advertisement though. Lets look at the top of the steam page: "open world ... combination of first person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role-playing games. Play the definitive zombie survival sandbox RPG that came first."

 

Both mentions of survival narrow the genre down to "survival horror" and "zombie survival". Whatever you think about the genre "survivial", what is the definition of "survival horror" and why shouldn't 7d2d be one?

 

There is a game in a spaceship where you hide from an alien you can't fight and try to find information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien:_Isolation . It is called a "survival horror" game in the wikipedia page, but AFAIK it has no hunger management nor temperature management nor farming.

[Dunkurtin]

Sorry, but reading both those posts either my reading level is too low or you are contradicting yourself. In the first post you clearly say that now 7d2d is NOT a tower defense game. In the second post you clearly say it IS.

 

Your main point is the advertisement though. Lets look at the top of the steam page: "open world ... combination of first person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role-playing games. Play the definitive zombie survival sandbox RPG that came first."

 

Both mentions of survival narrow the genre down to "survival horror" and "zombie survival". Whatever you think about the genre "survivial", what is the definition of "survival horror" and why shouldn't 7d2d be one?

 

There is a game in a spaceship where you hide from an alien you can't fight and try to find information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien:_Isolation . It is called a "survival horror" game in the wikipedia page, but I don't see any hunger management, no temperature management, no farming.

 

Context is everything. In the first post I am talking about what the game has been up until now. It has never resembled a true tower defense game. In the second, I am talking about what the developers have said in their defence of the changes, that the game is meant to be a tower defense game and that is the direction they are trying to move it in.

 

So yes, your reading level may be too low if you are ignoring context or you are intentionally trying to cherry pick single phrases to create a completely different narrative.

 

 

 

You are also ignoring that before you even read that sentence in the steam page description, the game banner and tagline that is everywhere the game is advertised reads "The Survival Horde Crafting Game".

 

Maybe you are intentionally cherry picking to create a false narrative...

[meganoth]

I didnt claim that it was the same across all players, just pointing out that I (and probably some others) dont enjoy the early game much. Im always in favor of options and options around progression speed (XP multiplying) could offset a lot of this.

 

Lets say the following can be misunderstood: "If the game is unfun untill level xyz then a new player is either going to grind like ♥♥♥♥ to get to the actual fun part of the game or just go play somthing else".

 

I'm actually thinking that "normal" difficulty probably has to be easier to accomodate most new players. Not easier zombies but more time as new players will definitely waste a lot of time while learning the game and then 7 days of 60 minutes are maybe just too dense. But the early game is needed for the survival horror and RPG part of this genre mix and if you want a pure sandbox and avoid those aspects you really have to use creative menue or a mod, or options.

 

I just want to point out that developers want to add some hurdles for players to jump over before they can circumvent much of the game because that could lead new players to unknowingly remove the fun for themselves.

 

Best example is an RPG that gives you a powerfull weapon at start (as a bonus for the special edition). But if it makes the fights too easy, a large percentage of the new players might loose interest in this "unbalanced" game not knowing that they partly brought it upon themselves by accepting that weapon

 

So "faster xp progression" might never surface as an option, but is already trivially changeable in XML: In progression.xml there is the line <level max_level="300" exp_to_level="9545" experience_multiplier="1.0149" skill_points_per_level="1"> .

[Dunkurtin]

Alien: Isolation is a survival horror because the gameplay is focused entirely on long term survival. Hunger or temperature management are not necessary for a game to be a survival game. The game mechanics just have to be focused almost completely around survival. Needing to plan ahead is a staple of survival games. Not just surviving through any given moment, but how current actions will affect chances to survive in future. A17 does not have this, A16 did to a degree. In A17 all you have to worry about is surviving any given engagement (and not even that much), you don't have to plan for future survival. In A17 you are forced to seek out situations that put you in danger as it is the only way to progress. In A16 you only put yourself in danger unnecessarily if there was a bonus pay off for it. For example, you wanted to go to a book store to find recipes, or a construction site to find tools. Specific POI now have no distinct value like they used to because no matter where you go you can get everything as long as you are fighting. SO there is no planning out your schedule anymore. No worrying about having everything you need before horde night, because horde preparation now takes half a day at most. The survival elements of the game are very light now.

 

Basically the game has shifted much more towards action than strategy, and survival and action do not mix well together. You either have action with light survival flavouring, or true survival with occasional action heavy moments.

[Mike06]

I agree A17 is both the best and worst version of 7d2d

 

A17 is the most polished and least buggy version so far where pims FINALLY fixed the buggy AI, but ...

 

It is most dumbed down unimaginative uninnovative and most consol-y version of this game yet. Many of the good and innovative features of the game have been removed and replaced by lazy and unimaginative crap just copied from other crappy games.

 

I have for long said NPC traders have no place in SURVIVAL game, where the whole point is to scavenge and make you own items. Now they added tho boooooooooring NPC quests to Traders. Has not everyone already been bored to tears with those in EVERY mmo game ?

Ok, those might be ok if those were not made mandatory by them giving xp and perk points.

 

Another thing I hate is the the perk points I liked the old system where you gained skill by using the skill and exploring the map to find recipe books that unlocked and increased the skill. That made the game much more interesting as every game you played was differnet as you randomly got skills unloacked based on what skill & recipe books you found. And another these new dumb features is having everything level locked that makes this skill allocate more and the game more linear (again like every single other f... mmo game)

 

It feels like this game had lobotomy after A13 when Pimps started making this a console game. Pimps you made a great game which you then ruined. it is still kind of ok but it's so sad when you had a great game.

 

Pimps, thanks for you great work. Just sad that you had a game one could enjoy playing thousands of hours and you turned it tio game you get bored in 20 hours. But I guess that is actually our fault, the customers are demanding instant gratification and to get all game content and items in less than 20 hours, not a game that still surprises you after 1000h.

[meganoth]

Context is everything. In the first post I am talking about what the game has been up until now. It has never resembled a true tower defense game. In the second, I am talking about what the developers have said in their defence of the changes, that the game is meant to be a tower defense game and that is the direction they are trying to move it in.

 

So yes, your reading level may be too low if you are ignoring context or you are intentionally trying to cherry pick single phrases to create a completely different narrative.

 

Well, that is an ambiguous statement ("tower defense only" or "tower defense too", the latter being quite ok, this being a genre mix) and one that would astonish me. The direction for A18 is, to my knowledge, more contents, especially more mods, and polishing and balancing. For A17 they wanted to improve the AI because the tower defense didn't work because of the bad AI of the zombies.

 

You are also ignoring that before you even read that sentence in the steam page description, the game banner and tagline that is everywhere the game is advertised reads "The Survival Horde Crafting Game".

 

Maybe you are intentionally cherry picking to create a false narrative...

 

EDIT: Hah, actually did read that wrong. You are not saying it is wrong on the steam page, but in advertisement banners? Then what about banners of other games that tell you nothing about the game at all? Or are not even showing in game graphic? Is that all a lie? Well, actually it is. No game banner ever tells the truth and no commercial on the TV ever is about information. But you surely know that.

 

I don't see why a necessarily short text in an game banner picture has to include a detailed description of every aspect of the game. Sure, if 7 days to die would change into a 100% tower defense game, you would be absolutely right, I just think you are probably misinterpreting some statements if you believe that.

 

Fun fact: If I search for the full name of "7 days to die", the game isn't in the short drop down list, a really bad search function IMHO.

[meganoth]

Alien: Isolation is a survival horror because the gameplay is focused entirely on long term survival. Hunger or temperature management are not necessary for a game to be a survival game. The game mechanics just have to be focused almost completely around survival.

 

"almost completely around survival" is surely true for a 100% survival game. It is not true if a developer attempts a genre mix. I see the survival horror aspect clearly whenever I loot a building and tiptoe because I don't want to get any ferals on my back. Or when I get surprised by dogs or birds. Or when I hide in the night and hope to not get any zombies knocking the POI down. In fact I see that aspect take up a large part of the early game.

 

Needing to plan ahead is a staple of survival games. Not just surviving through any given moment, but how current actions will affect chances to survive in future. A17 does not have this, A16 did to a degree. In A17 all you have to worry about is surviving any given engagement (and not even that much), you don't have to plan for future survival. In A17 you are forced to seek out situations that put you in danger as it is the only way to progress. In A16 you only put yourself in danger unnecessarily if there was a bonus pay off for it.

 

In A16 most players invited screamers to farm them for loot. Now they farm them for XP. Both is not balanced but I don't see where A16 is any better. And I don't do such things in my SP A17 game at the moment (with a mix of scavenging, mining, farming and building) and progress quite well.

 

Lets also not forget that we are comparing A17.0 with a seemingly more polished A16.4. XP was announced as one of the parts that need further balancing.

[asmosnuts]

Everyones right/ everyones wrong. The best thing TFP could do is an expanded options page where people can configure the game exactly how they want to play and stop most of the useless bickering.