Steam reviews - I kinda figured

[lazerblade01]

The fact of the matter is that some people on these forums would defend TFP's decisions regardless of what they did. They could remove mod support, or even voxels, and some people would be fine with that.

[Drunkwolf]

Huh, that would be something interesting data. I know that I've gotten 5 people to buy copies over the years based on my recommendation. I wonder what the average is.

 

it would be interesting to know. i know for myself during alpha 16 i had many friends ask me about the game but i told them not to get it because i know for a fact the first time they shoot a zombie and it runs away from them to go do circles around a cactus they would laugh and refund. or the fact they can just dig down and be safe for ever would be another turn off. but now with alpha 17 i can tell people to buy it with confidence they will have fun.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

The fact of the matter is that some people on these forums would defend TFP's decisions regardless of what they did. They could remove mod support, or even voxels, and some people would be fine with that.

 

just like no matter what they do people will allways be here to bitch.

[Viktoriusiii]

i told them not to get it because i know for a fact the first time they shoot a zombie and it runs away from them to go do circles around a cactus they would laugh and refund. or the fact they can just dig down and be safe for ever would be another turn off. but now with alpha 17 i can tell people to buy it with confidence they will have fun.

 

 

And I'll show them the 60 block perfect defence build where zombies start looping around and do not get the idea hitting a supportblock.

Or how they change direction in a maze with 1/8th blocks... or so many other stupid things...

 

Yes they did improve A.I. on daytime. But A.I. on hordenight aren't much better.

But in A16 you actually could do what you wanted instead of beeing forced to kill 1000 zombies (and more) to unlock something like more inventory space or a vehicle you want... or more stamina.

 

So yeah... A16 wasn't perfect, but improvements would have been 1000x better rather than reworking everything. Now other things are broken and unfun.

[Katitof]

The fact of the matter is that some people on these forums would defend TFP's decisions regardless of what they did.

 

Have you considered even for a split second the possibility that plenty of people actually do like where TFP go with A17 and YOU might be just the vocal minority who doesn't like it?

[Katitof]

https://steamcharts.com/app/251570

 

How to read concurrency for dummies:

 

Concurrent players show only players at one time, they do not show players playing OVER THE WHOLE 24 HOURS.

 

10.000 players from hour 10:00 might not be the same 10.000 from hour 14:00.

 

We have no daily active users data, but I can assure you, with 7 days CCUs, I would be extremely surprised if unique daily players who log in and play some was lower then 50.000-80.000.

[Viktoriusiii]

How to read concurrency for dummies:

 

Concurrent players show only players at one time, they do not show players playing OVER THE WHOLE 24 HOURS.

 

10.000 players from hour 10:00 might not be the same 10.000 from hour 14:00.

 

We have no daily active users data, but I can assure you, with 7 days current CCUs, I would be extremely surprised if unique daily players who log in and play some was lower then 50.000-80.000.

 

correct.

two points tho:

1. its on sale. This always boosts playernumbers. Combine this with the A17 release, these numbers are not surprising.

If they get a peak of players of +4000 they have the same amount of players that they had on A16.

Before A17 every alpha and every sale boosted players overall and peak players.

 

2. new players will probably still like the game, as they never knew what A16 was. Most of the negative reviews <A17 were "omg 5 years EA" "no update for a year". Now most reviews are about how bad this game has become.

 

LEts see how long these players will stay and enjoy the game.

[badger2013]

How many more hours did you think A17 was going to give you? A17 is not an expansion pack that just adds content. Alot of the comments of boredom and tedium are coming from players with hundreds to thousands of hours under their belt. Here lies the negative part of participating in early access. (Getting too attached to features that are a work in progress)

 

I've been playing 7d2d since alpha 5 and every alpha continues to give me something new to enjoy. A big part of that is not over playing the game and taking breaks.

 

I've played single player, some pvp here and there, multiplayer pve (bartertown community server), small group coop sessions, and a large amount of time creating custom POIs for the community.

 

I will admit the larger scale multiplayer community frequently gets the shorter end of the stick with these large updates 1st drop. Which is not a surprise since the game is designed and balanced around small group cooperative play to begin with.

 

However , the dev's do listen to the community and give them some love when it's the right time. I hope they continue to expand on the game, especially in regards to multiplayer features as we all recognize the huge potential.

 

I stopped playing in August 2017 and then returned for A17, and even after a break of well over a year I'm still bored. It's not that there isn't great content, it's that the flow of the game just isn't there. I'm hopeful that things will be improved, but I've been in "hopeful" mode for a long time now.

[Randomdude]

The fact of the matter is that some people on these forums would defend TFP's decisions regardless of what they did. They could remove mod support, or even voxels, and some people would be fine with that.

 

YES MEN are the cancer of any project.

 

Some talk about the voiced minority in the forums as just that, a minority. That's the part that scares me, complacency. Since the "bad idea" we implemented was not "hated"... we're fine. This is the road to mediocrity.

[Viktoriusiii]

YES MEN are the cancer of any project.

 

Some talk about the voiced minority in the forums as just that, a minority. That's the part that scares me, complacency. Since the "bad idea" we implemented was not "hated"... we're fine. This is the road to mediocrity.

 

I've never seen TFPs beeing compacent. It was ALWAYS the opposite. They balanced around playerfeedback, but their mainpoints they always forced on us no matter what. So DW about them beeing complacent. They are often too stubborn.

 

But as we have completely opposite opinions, maybe they are doing something right... who knows

[Ranzera]

I've never seen TFPs beeing compacent. It was ALWAYS the opposite. They balanced around playerfeedback, but their mainpoints they always forced on us no matter what. So DW about them beeing complacent. They are often too stubborn.

 

But as we have completely opposite opinions, maybe they are doing something right... who knows

 

Something something.. hill to die on.

[Roland]

And I'll show them the 60 block perfect defence build where zombies start looping around and do not get the idea hitting a supportblock.

Or how they change direction in a maze with 1/8th blocks... or so many other stupid things...

 

This isn’t fair and really shows your hypocrisy. You keep touting A16 as the pinnacle and A17 as the step backwards but your A16 rose tinted glasses are preventing you from being honest. In A16 you could nerdpole up four blocks and over four blocks using raw wood frame blocks and be perfectly safe. You could enter any structure and just break the stairs and be perfectly safe. You could dig down four blocks and be perfectly safe.

 

The fact that you have to show someone exactly how to configure 60 blocks to fool the AI vs me just now describing how to do it with 8 frame blocks shows the superiority of A17 over A16. There will ALWAYS be a way to exploit the AI. But at least in A17 people can more easily avoid the exploits you describe if they want to build a base and defend it.

 

Yes they did improve A.I. on daytime. But A.I. on hordenight aren't much better.

But in A16 you actually could do what you wanted instead of beeing forced to kill 1000 zombies (and more) to unlock something like more inventory space or a vehicle you want... or more stamina.

 

I know that by now you can’t have missed the many posts that xp gains will be brought into better balance. The devs admitted that their initial balance was off and they will change it. You can stop beating that particular drum now. And once again you are wrong about A16 vs A17 AI. A17 isn’t the final intended version of AI. It’s the starting point. But it is a starting point way beyond what we had in A16.

 

So yeah... A16 wasn't perfect, but improvements would have been 1000x better rather than reworking everything. Now other things are broken and unfun.

 

I get it that you are on a campaign to get A16 back and I respect your passion. But if you continue to ignore the fact that many of complaints will be addressed in 17.1 and the rest are design decision that the developers are set on then that crosses the line of giving feedback to being disruptive and belligerent and just whining about not getting your way.

 

Your feedback has been delivered and received. Now let them decide.

 

Now, was that too ego maniacally bullying about it for you?

[SurvivalUK]

correct.

two points tho:

1. its on sale. This always boosts playernumbers. Combine this with the A17 release, these numbers are not surprising.

If they get a peak of players of +4000 they have the same amount of players that they had on A16.

Before A17 every alpha and every sale boosted players overall and peak players.

It also had an injection of 10's of thousands with the Humble Bundle subscription and i'd say that is a conservative number (probably nearer 6 figures).

[SurvivalUK]

Have you considered even for a split second the possibility that plenty of people actually do like where TFP go with A17 and YOU might be just the vocal minority who doesn't like it?

Agree with both you, there are people who are happy with A17 vanilla from (around 30% or so according to Roland's poll). Equally there are people on here as with any community who will blindly nod and defend everything TFPs do without critical thinking.

[Viktoriusiii]

This isn’t fair and really shows your hypocrisy. You keep touting A16 as the pinnacle and A17 as the step backwards but your A16 rose tinted glasses are preventing you from being honest. In A16 you could nerdpole up four blocks and over four blocks using raw wood frame blocks and be perfectly safe. You could enter any structure and just break the stairs and be perfectly safe. You could dig down four blocks and be perfectly safe.

 

I thought about this as well. Which is why I didn't say "A16 was better" I just meant that they are both flawed in different ways and saying A17 is better is not really true.

 

The fact that you have to show someone exactly how to configure 60 blocks to fool the AI vs me just now describing how to do it with 8 frame blocks shows the superiority of A17 over A16. There will ALWAYS be a way to exploit the AI. But at least in A17 people can more easily avoid the exploits you describe if they want to build a base and defend it.

well you can simply do the looping strat where you only need like 12 blocks... but thats not the point. As I said it was not meant to glorify A16. Sorry if it came across like that. A16 had lots of issues. But it was a definate step forewards from A15. A17 redid lots and instead of fixing stuff they replaced it with stuff that is flawed in a different way. TAHT was my point.

 

 

 

I know that by now you can’t have missed the many posts that xp gains will be brought into better balance. The devs admitted that their initial balance was off and they will change it. You can stop beating that particular drum now. And once again you are wrong about A16 vs A17 AI. A17 isn’t the final intended version of AI. It’s the starting point. But it is a starting point way beyond what we had in A16.

 

They released it as "stable" to get it rdy for wintersale. Yes they acknowledged it... and it is good that they do. Maybe 17.1 is just a bit more playable. BUT the problem with levelgates is, that XP is everything. No matter what it all comes down to xp. So if ANYTHING is slightly more effective, it will be the new "zombie killing". Its not specifically about killing zombies but the fact that its all bound to XP. Every progression is done through xp. Better loot, better trading, better questrewards, better crafting better everything. On A16 you could have 100 bartering or 100 mining before day 7 if you focused really really hard on it. THAT was my point, sorry if I can't always articulate my points well (aspergers AND german )

 

 

I get it that you are on a campaign to get A16 back and I respect your passion. But if you continue to ignore the fact that many of complaints will be addressed in 17.1 and the rest are design decision that the developers are set on then that crosses the line of giving feedback to being disruptive and belligerent and just whining about not getting your way.

 

I don'T want "A16 back". I want better more seemless progression and a world where I can feel at home. If they do it like A16, if they rework it with some of my suggestions or find another way, I don't care. A16 wasn't perfect, but certain aspects of A17 I dislike heavily. And if A17 finds a way to kinda bring those aspects back, I'm a happy man. Learning by doing and gunparts are (in my opinion) the best solutions.

 

Your feedback has been delivered and received. Now let them decide.

 

Now, was that too ego maniacally bullying about it for you?

 

Could have been worse. I'm sorry if I sound as if I'm on a campaign to destroy A17. I'm not.

But I often see things I either disagree with or are plainly wrong (there IS such a thing ) and I'm trying to get 7d2d back on track.

The worst condescending part was probably the question if it was ego maniacally bullying

 

As I'm probably off now: Happy New Year ^_^

[Druga Runda]

Nothing is going to be proved one way or another until at least February.

 

Alpha 17 probably won’t be viewed as beloved until Alpha 18 is released

 

Cue foreboding music

 

:running away scared:

 

The game's peak was around A11/12 version, kind of downhill from A13 on from gameplay perspective that is (for me).

 

There were great additions from game world perspective, items, abilities (upgrading blocks), long distance terrain, vehicles and AI now etc, however gameplay went down significantly culminating with A17 where it is even gamebreaking as is.

 

If I joined now, with the game staying as is, I certanly would not have 1k+ hours over next few years, but there were low points before (like early A15 versions), and the devs are listening, so I am hoping A18 will be a point to rejoice again, instead of having all the anticipation strangled in a forced grind.

[Kalen]

This isn’t fair and really shows your hypocrisy. You keep touting A16 as the pinnacle and A17 as the step backwards but your A16 rose tinted glasses are preventing you from being honest. In A16 you could nerdpole up four blocks and over four blocks using raw wood frame blocks and be perfectly safe. You could enter any structure and just break the stairs and be perfectly safe. You could dig down four blocks and be perfectly safe.

 

The fact that you have to show someone exactly how to configure 60 blocks to fool the AI vs me just now describing how to do it with 8 frame blocks shows the superiority of A17 over A16. There will ALWAYS be a way to exploit the AI. But at least in A17 people can more easily avoid the exploits you describe if they want to build a base and defend it.

 

 

The biggest difference to me is that hiding from the zombies in A16, for lack of a better phrase, "looked better" than the way people do it in A17. A conga line of zombies looping just looks ridiculous.

[Roland]

It also had an injection of 10's of thousands with the Humble Bundle subscription and i'd say that is a conservative number (probably nearer 6 figures).

 

Let me ask you this. There were steam summer sales and steam winter sales and humble bundle sales all during the time of A16 without any kind of significant blip. Go look at the steam charts for the entire time of A16 and you’ll see an unbroken line of slightly diminishing players all throughout such sales. If steam sales and humble bundle sales have such power then why did we never see it manifested? What is the difference now?

 

I think both sides are using plenty of critical thinking. We can see it in Jax’s post where he admits to trying to push a certain narrative by not playing A16 right now even though he would like to but he is afraid he’ll contribute to numbers that will send the wrong message and hurt his agenda. That is some deep thinking and strategizing right there.

 

Everyone is going to interpret the numbers that will make them feel better about their agenda. As long as we all recognize that interpretation is simply guessing and hoping by that individual and not the truth then it’s fine. Some of you are hoping that A17 fails to the point that the devs feel they MUST go back to A16. That’s your agenda and so all interpretations of numbers reflect the narrative that A17 is failing and if the devs stick with it they are doomed and didn’t listen to the right group of customers. Of course the other part of that narrative is that others who claim to like A17 need to be marginalized as simple minded sycophants who like anything and everything the devs put out.

[Roland]

The biggest difference to me is that hiding from the zombies in A16, for lack of a better phrase, "looked better" than the way people do it in A17. A conga line of zombies looping just looks ridiculous.

 

Okay but this again is feedback already delivered and acknowledged. The devs have already stated they are going to work on this very issue and work on getting the zombies to spread out more. Why is it still being brought up other than to just keep the negativity going?

 

If you weren’t aware of this then please be aware that the issue you described is a known issue and the devs agree it must change.

 

Also, and I can’t emphasize this enough that a conga line of zombies concentrating destruction at a focused point to bring you down is not worse than perching safely on a number seven made out of frame blocks and having zombies spinning in circles below you.

[Ranzera]

Let me ask you this. There were steam summer sales and steam winter sales and humble bundle sales all during the time of A16 without any kind of significant blip. Go look at the steam charts for the entire time of A16 and you’ll see an unbroken line of slightly diminishing players all throughout such sales. If steam sales and humble bundle sales have such power then why did we never see it manifested? What is the difference now?

 

I think both sides are using plenty of critical thinking. We can see it in Jax’s post where he admits to trying to push a certain narrative by not playing A16 right now even though he would like to but he is afraid he’ll contribute to numbers that will send the wrong message and hurt his agenda. That is some deep thinking and strategizing right there.

 

Everyone is going to interpret the numbers that will make them feel better about their agenda. As long as we all recognize that interpretation is simply guessing and hoping by that individual and not the truth then it’s fine. Some of you are hoping that A17 fails to the point that the devs feel they MUST go back to A16. That’s your agenda and so all interpretations of numbers reflect the narrative that A17 is failing and if the devs stick with it they are doomed and didn’t listen to the right group of customers. Of course the other part of that narrative is that others who claim to like A17 need to be marginalized as simple minded sycophants who like anything and everything the devs put out.

 

That'll happen when everything you compare it to had half or less time to the next bump (alpha release). After this bump you can expect a much harsher drop off because this alpha is soulless and can only hold people's attention for a short time.

 

I for one moved (Battle Brothers is scratching a neglected itch for me) on but still comment here with the hopes that either a mod is released that fixes this, or you guys man up about this mess.

 

You guys neglected this stuff that people really wanted (electricity, bug fixing stuff from A16, etc), scraped working systems for the upteen dozenth time and flat out removed interesting mechanics (gore blocks, dismemberment, creative base design, etc).

 

I find it shocking when it's said this was the goal because throughout the schizophrenic development of this game, nothing hinted at *this*.

[Kalen]

Okay but this again is feedback already delivered and acknowledged. The devs have already stated they are going to work on this very issue and work on getting the zombies to spread out more. Why is it still being brought up other than to just keep the negativity going?

 

If you weren’t aware of this then please be aware that the issue you described is a known issue and the devs agree it must change.

 

Also, and I can’t emphasize this enough that a conga line of zombies concentrating destruction at a focused point to bring you down is not worse than perching safely on a number seven made out of frame blocks and having zombies spinning in circles below you.

 

whoa, easy there.... wasn't meant to be an attack on anything. You equated A16s pathing challenges to A17s challenges and I just disagreed that they were equal. Many areas of A17 are superior to A16.... IMO, this isn't one of them.

[Roland]

whoa, easy there.... wasn't meant to be an attack on anything. You equated A16s pathing challenges to A17s challenges and I just disagreed that they were equal. Many areas of A17 are superior to A16.... IMO, this isn't one of them.

 

cool. Then be happy that this particular issue is being addressed. That's all I'm saying.

[Roland]

That'll happen when everything you compare it to had half or less time to the next bump (alpha release). After this bump you can expect a much harsher drop off because this alpha is soulless and can only hold people's attention for a short time.

 

Well I know TFP's failure is yours and several others' greatest hope because you believe it will force them to change things back to your preferences. People have been predicting the failure of the game at every single update when something changes that they didn't like only to realize they didn't represent the majority after all (not that they would ever admit this). I'm not going to predict a harsher drop off or the longest run of 20k+ players. I'm simply going to say we will have to wait and see. TFP is waiting and seeing. Quick harsh drop off and loss of interest might indeed mean that for the first time TFP is out of touch with what most of their players want. Watching what happens during the next 2-3 months will be interesting indeed.

 

I'm interested to see the next How do you like A17 poll after 17.1 drops.

[PoppaTot]

Well I know TFP's failure is yours and several others' greatest hope because you believe it will force them to change things back to your preferences. People have been predicting the failure of the game at every single update when something changes that they didn't like only to realize they didn't represent the majority after all (not that they would ever admit this). I'm not going to predict a harsher drop off or the longest run of 20k+ players. I'm simply going to say we will have to wait and see. TFP is waiting and seeing. Quick harsh drop off and loss of interest might indeed mean that for the first time TFP is out of touch with what most of their players want. Watching what happens during the next 2-3 months will be interesting indeed.

 

I'm interested to see the next How do you like A17 poll after 17.1 drops.

 

I for one don't want to see the failure of TFP and I would put money on it that other's don't either. There is a huge difference in predicting failure and hoping for it. I just want TFP to be open to the fact that a lot of people are unhappy with the current direction. They seem to be acknowledging that now, but at the same time state that the new progression system is here to stay.... So it doesn't really change much for those of us, that some call the vocal minority, that they acknowledged it in the first place.

[Ranzera]

Well I know TFP's failure is yours and several others' greatest hope because you believe it will force them to change things back to your preferences. People have been predicting the failure of the game at every single update when something changes that they didn't like only to realize they didn't represent the majority after all (not that they would ever admit this). I'm not going to predict a harsher drop off or the longest run of 20k+ players. I'm simply going to say we will have to wait and see. TFP is waiting and seeing. Quick harsh drop off and loss of interest might indeed mean that for the first time TFP is out of touch with what most of their players want. Watching what happens during the next 2-3 months will be interesting indeed.

 

I'm interested to see the next How do you like A17 poll after 17.1 drops.

 

I don't hope you fail. I do hope you all eventually open your eyes to the huge crater that is the Fallout franchise and think "oh maybe this isn't a good idea." Even their fans hate how dumbed down their perk system has become and you guys implemented and even more simplistic one.

[WolfyBlah]

Nobody wants TFP fail, some of us want them to remove thier head from thier rectum, theres a big difference.

 

When you have a dev going 'nuuuuuh i like this new skill system so just deal with it'... maybe failure wouldnt be such a bad thing.