Item repair should be nerfed.

[Maxwar]

Right now in A17 I think item repair is too strong.

 

You can quickly repair pretty much anything for cheap even in early game. You can also do this indefinitely and your item never breaks.

 

I like that tools and guns are easier to loot than before. It gives you an incentive to go out and try your luck in early game. This also counter balances the fact that you cannot craft good tools or guns early on. So far so good.

 

The problem is that once you find that fireaxe or that nice gun on day one, you are pretty much golden as keeping it repaired indefinitely is trivial. I think the current meta of A17 is that you absolutely must try to loot these things quickly as this strategy is very good and has few drawbacks, all because repair is so strong.

 

I don't think that making the said loot harder to find is the best solution. Finding these things is very fun and rewarding.

Instead I think repair should be nerfed somehow.

 

Without going back to the old quality system I propose some ideas that could make repair system more balanced.

 

 

1. Making repair more costly: This is the cookie cutter solution. Making repair simply cost a lot more and/or making repair kit ingredients rare.

 

2. Repair kits also used for iron tools and up. Make the repair kits harder to obtain a make them required for iron tools too.

 

3. Repair skill caps : Another idea would be to implement a repair skill system where you are only able to repair items to a percentage of their max quality. Something like 25% initially. This cap could be raised through the perk system. It could even be integrated within the already existing perks. This will force the players to spend more ressource and time to keep their things repaired in early game. It will also be a hindrance as you might need to always carry repair supplies with you as your stuff needs repair often. This cap could be removed for items you know how to craft. After all, if you know how to make them like new, you should be able to repair them properly.

 

3. A chance to botch repair: I think this is my favourite because of its cruel and random nature. You have a default base chance to botch every item repairs you attempt. This could be reduced with perks. I see several way to go about this when a botched repair happens.

 

a) The item is destroyed.

 

b) The item is damaged ( loses one level ) - If items is already at level 1 then destroyed.

 

c ) You loose the repair kit and material and have to start over.

 

d ) The item is repaired at reduced max strength and gets the keyword ( Botched repair ) - It can still be used for a bit but can no longer be repaired and will need to be replaced. This avoid the frustration of not being able to finish your job because your tool is destroyed.

 

*when an item breaks because of a botched repair , the mods are not destroyed. They go to the players inventory of fall to the ground if no room.

[Scyris]

No, just all of the No, I got sick of crap like this in A16 and below as did most others. Its good that its gone, if you want it, mod it in yourself. Or just never repair anything, just get/make a new one. I'm a little bit tired of everyone wanting to change the entire game because They don't like something. Use a damn modlet or something, the devs are very supportive of modding.

 

I DO However feel that the repair costs should be a bit higher though that I do agree on. Which could most likely be easly modded by modifying the repair materials repair amounts.

[vedrit]

Repairing used to have consequences. Not anymore.

 

That's my only complaint on the matter.

[Zourin]

all you need to maintain an axe in RL is a wet stone that's reusable. I don't quite get why banging 20lbs of steel against it is going to magically restore its sharpness in such a way as the steel is completely and utterly destroyed from existence.

 

Repair costs are fine. If it costs as much to repair as it costs to replace, then you probably should just chuck the piece of crap in the forge and try not to make such a ♥♥♥♥ty item the next time.

[Jedo]

I'm a little bit tired of everyone wanting to change the entire game because They don't like something.

 

Melodramatic much?

[Maxwar]

all you need to maintain an axe in RL is a wet stone that's reusable.

 

Handles break too. And might need more than a whet stone if it is seriously dented.

[JaxTeller718]

No, just all of the No, I got sick of crap like this in A16 and below as did most others. Its good that its gone, if you want it, mod it in yourself. Or just never repair anything, just get/make a new one. I'm a little bit tired of everyone wanting to change the entire game because They don't like something. Use a damn modlet or something, the devs are very supportive of modding.

 

I DO However feel that the repair costs should be a bit higher though that I do agree on. Which could most likely be easly modded by modifying the repair materials repair amounts.

 

Or they can prevent their game from becoming a parody of itself and NOT listen to people like you and actually make gameplay CHALLENGING again.

 

It's kind of funny and ironic that the longer I play the more Im finding this Alpha to be infinitely EASIER than 16. Once you know what to do and how to do it there's little room for any failure. Very disappointing.

[Maxwar]

It's kind of funny and ironic that the longer I play the more Im finding this Alpha to be infinitely EASIER than 16. Once you know what to do and how to do it there's little room for any failure. Very disappointing.

 

Im not sure I would say easier than A16. But I do see what you mean, Initially I found A17 a lot harder but after playing it for a while im starting to feel like you do. There are a lot of strong strategies that you can use to cheese your way through A17. But I think it is mostly a matter of balance.

 

I want this game to be challenging. I think TFPs want that too. I actually really like the new mechanics of A17 but the cheese exploits need to be rooted out. This is totally normal as this is a new release.

 

That is why I made this thread about item repair in particular. It is one very specific thing that allows you to blast through early game in A17.

[wildaxeman1]

The problem is that once you find that fireaxe or that nice gun on day one, you are pretty much golden as keeping it repaired indefinitely is trivial. I think the current meta of A17 is that you absolutely must try to loot these things quickly as this strategy is very good and has few drawbacks, all because repair is so strong.

 

sure, it is good to find metal tools and firearms, but actually you can not repair them easy in early game. repairkits and forged iron are hard to come by. (so you need forge LVL 20 at least) or lucky loot.

[Maxwar]

sure, it is good to find metal tools and firearms, but actually you can not repair them easy in early game. repairkits and forged iron are hard to come by. (so you need forge LVL 20 at least) or lucky loot.

 

 

No they are not. There is a very common prefab house that has a forge in it, often in working condition. You are pretty much guaranteed to find one near your trader in every game, that is if your trader itself does not have a forge.

 

As for repair kits, the limiting ingredient is typically Oil, which is rather common. You can find them in trash bags all over the map. I typically have an excess of repair kits at all time. Except maybe for the first few days but you typically wont need them so fast.

[ktr]

Solely personal experience here, but I have not found it easy to find/buy forged iron or steel tools early game. (Except hoes. I am swimming in hoes in my SP game.) Mild - not kidding about the hoes tho - joking aside. Despite a concerted effort of looting and checking traders, I think I've found maybe one fireaxe/pickaxe/shovel of iron or steel before being able to make a forge in both SP and MP. And I've had one SP game where every forge I ran across was busted. I have on MP game where we managed, between the two of us, to find one iron pickaxe and one iron axe. We split them, and scrounged together forged iron to keep them repaired. It's actually made these scavenged items feel special and valued.

 

While this might be just pure bad luck, I don't consider coming across these things easy, or easy to repair.

 

Personally, I found the durability loss to repairing annoying aside from challenging. In A16, I always had plenty of repair materials and more than enough to make new tools or upgrade gun parts.

 

The only thing I've found abundant in A17 (tool and weapon wise) are guns, but not repair kits.

[Scyris]

Solely personal experience here, but I have not found it easy to find/buy forged iron or steel tools early game. (Except hoes. I am swimming in hoes in my SP game.) Mild - not kidding about the hoes tho - joking aside. Despite a concerted effort of looting and checking traders, I think I've found maybe one fireaxe/pickaxe/shovel of iron or steel before being able to make a forge in both SP and MP. And I've had one SP game where every forge I ran across was busted. I have on MP game where we managed, between the two of us, to find one iron pickaxe and one iron axe. We split them, and scrounged together forged iron to keep them repaired. It's actually made these scavenged items feel special and valued.

 

While this might be just pure bad luck, I don't consider coming across these things easy, or easy to repair.

 

Personally, I found the durability loss to repairing annoying aside from challenging. In A16, I always had plenty of repair materials and more than enough to make new tools or upgrade gun parts.

 

The only thing I've found abundant in A17 (tool and weapon wise) are guns, but not repair kits.

 

Wrench to any busted non-working workbench will give 20 forged iron, thats enough for repairs for quite a while. This is without any perms in the salvage operations thing which adds a 20-100% bonus.

[Scyris]

Or they can prevent their game from becoming a parody of itself and NOT listen to people like you and actually make gameplay CHALLENGING again.

 

It's kind of funny and ironic that the longer I play the more Im finding this Alpha to be infinitely EASIER than 16. Once you know what to do and how to do it there's little room for any failure. Very disappointing.

 

Poi's are more challenging at least especally some of the newer ones, There is a fine line however between a challenge and a pointless grind. The problem is many of the things people want for "challenge" actually is nothing more than adding extra grind to it. Case in point OP's post, to me all that adds is just more of a grind and not really much of a challenge at all. Grind does not = challenge imo. Challenge would be: a lot harder food/water, harder zombies, by harder I don't mean give them like massive hp, because again, that is the whole grind doesn't equil challenge thing. A zombie with 10000 hp is no harder than one with 100 hp, it just takes 100 times as long to kill, not much of a challenge there it just takes time.

 

Challenge for the op's post could be something like: every swing there is a percent chance for the weapon to suddendly break and needs to be repaired to be used again. Lower tier item means more chance. With even tier 6 items having a small chance to instantly break losing all durability. For guns they could jam, and have to be reloaded again to clear the jam. Would add more challenge to zombie killing as your weapons could screw up at anytime.

[ktr]

Wrench to any busted non-working workbench will give 20 forged iron, thats enough for repairs for quite a while. This is without any perms in the salvage operations thing which adds a 20-100% bonus.

 

I would

 

but I can never find wrenches either despite looting many a sink. Maybe RNGesus just loathes me, but rn I rarely find tools of any kind besides the hoe (and don't get me wrong, starting a garden early is useful!) until I'm 3 levels away from buying the forge perk. Finding any (other) iron tool and a wrench is like finding gold for me rn.

[Scyris]

I would

 

but I can never find wrenches either despite looting many a sink. Maybe RNGesus just loathes me, but rn I rarely find tools of any kind besides the hoe (and don't get me wrong, starting a garden early is useful!) until I'm 3 levels away from buying the forge perk. Finding any (other) iron tool and a wrench is like finding gold for me rn.

 

Ahh, I tend to find more tools than I know what to do with, Then again I also tend to target poi's that can drop stuff I want over random poi's I come across. Its all rng though i've looted working stiff tool stores without finding a single tool more than once.

[Roland]

Repair is not complete. At some point the plan will be to fill one of the slots with a badmod when you repair it out in the field. This badmod will hamper the weapon in some way. Much of this will be fleshed out as mods in general continue to be developed. The current form of repair is just a placeholder.

[wildaxeman1]

hopefully not, Roland. it is bad to run back to workstation for every repair to avoid badmod penalty. imagine, if you are out for mining and need repair 8 times during night or you chopping trees bit away from home...

[Kattla]

Repair is not complete. At some point the plan will be to fill one of the slots with a badmod when you repair it out in the field. This badmod will hamper the weapon in some way. Much of this will be fleshed out as mods in general continue to be developed. The current form of repair is just a placeholder.

 

I like their placeholder.

[Ghostlight]

How about having a chance to break when you repair. Say 1% and increasing by 1% each time you repair?

[Katitof]

Repairing used to have consequences. Not anymore.

 

That's my only complaint on the matter.

 

With parts being able to be merged?

Not really.

 

In fact, you could just build quality 50 stone axes and end up with quality 600 in no time thanks to combining.

[canadianbluebeer]

hopefully not, Roland. it is bad to run back to workstation for every repair to avoid badmod penalty. imagine, if you are out for mining and need repair 8 times during night or you chopping trees bit away from home...

 

in 16 repair in field, durability drops. Field expedient repairs should have a penalty.

 

Of course, in 16 we could combine the damaged items and get a new shiny one. Hopefully that comes back. (modders will do it)

Having a bunch of almost broken tier 1 axes... would be nice to combine them to repair a bit.

[SittingDuck]

Ok raise up the challange with looting and pois, fine, but when i want to mine, i like it simple.

My 2. start in SP i walked to my trader, farmed coins for a pickaxe, had a forge in there and a concrete mixer... hell yeah 1. horde night was nice in my concrete bunker... but that was ok... I used the stuff i found for my advantage and had a win feeling... i like to have that.

If you think it´s too easy turn down the loot and tuff like that... ill bet you won´t complain long ^^

[Kalarro]

I dislike high repair costs. It's like a drawback. I prefered the increased quality from 1-600 while you crafted. It's more or less the same in terms of that you cant just keep one and need to keep spending resources, but at the same time it looked like a reward instead of a drawback.

 

Repair is not complete. At some point the plan will be to fill one of the slots with a badmod when you repair it out in the field. This badmod will hamper the weapon in some way. Much of this will be fleshed out as mods in general continue to be developed. The current form of repair is just a placeholder.

 

Dont like that too much :/

[Krougal]

I dislike high repair costs. It's like a drawback. I prefered the increased quality from 1-600 while you crafted. It's more or less the same in terms of that you cant just keep one and need to keep spending resources, but at the same time it looked like a reward instead of a drawback.

 

 

 

Dont like that too much :/

 

 

Yeah, sounds awful. I like how in A17 we are liberated from worrying about what repairing was going to do to my weapon/tool and just fixing it when I need to. The old QL system was just too much micromanagement and hoarding of parts, it was like a game unto itself.

[Reth]

I like the logistical challenge of finding materials for repair kits and keeping them stocked. But that's about the only thing I like about repair. The rest feels like busywork. I'd rather build/craft/explore/farm/kill/quest/trade.