Which is the most important feature VII

[SylenThunder]

I voted for Random Gen because that's where the game currently excels. Navezgane is cute, and great for getting started when you're new to the game. It's never really had the content for extended play, especially with multiplayer.

[toores]

Bah, with the new quest and sleeper system Rwg can have just as a robust of a story.

 

Yes, i understood it was the intention to design it that way. I also voted for rwg.

I'm hoping it will be possible to add quests to a game without having to start a new map. Like when you get tired of your current world, but discover someone has made cool storyline that you could add to your game. (dynamic NPCs and enemies scaling with your level...)

 

But i also understand the importance of Navezgane map. It will be the introduction to the game for new players.

[Aldranon]

With Random maps, the Quest Manager will need to know where the key "Quest POI's" are: So during map creation, all quest POI's are loaded into a text file including their location (a data base would be better and I could help if needed).

 

Then, if any POI have a trigger (minimum player level, skill needed, minimum reputation for "x" faction) the Quest Manager can look through the file each time the player gains levels or certain skills. And notify the player that "x" wants to talk to you, "You find a piece of paper... ect.

 

Clear as mud?

[Scyris]

I am heavily on the Random side of this debate. I played Nav a lot when it was the only choice, but since then I have not really been back. I am looking forward to expanded quests. Of course if there is a story in Nav I will pay it at least once.

 

Same, I've never really played Navezgane at all myself, I am waiting for the story and such to be put in first before I do.

[Aldranon]

With Random maps, the Quest Manager will need to know where the key "Quest POI's" are: So during map creation, all quest POI's are loaded into a text file including their location (a data base would be better and I could help if needed).

 

Then, if any POI have a trigger (minimum player level, skill needed, minimum reputation for "x" faction) the Quest Manager can look through the file each time the player gains levels or certain skills. And notify the player that "x" wants to talk to you, "You find a piece of paper... ect.

 

Clear as mud?

 

Also if the player was skilled enough and cleared a quest POI above their level, the item might glow or the description says "This looks important, maybe "x" would be interested". Or if clearing out the POI was the mission then some message that says who would have liked that done.

 

Now THERE is a great reason for exploring past the first city you see: Bonus rep and exp for completing quests ahead of time!

[Aldranon]

With Random maps, the Quest Manager will need to know where the key "Quest POI's" are: So during map creation, all quest POI's are loaded into a text file including their location (a data base would be better and I could help if needed).

 

Then, if any POI have a trigger (minimum player level, skill needed, minimum reputation for "x" faction) the Quest Manager can look through the file each time the player gains levels or certain skills. And notify the player that "x" wants to talk to you, "You find a piece of paper... ect.

 

Clear as mud?

 

Also if the player was skilled enough and cleared a quest POI above his level, the item might glow or the description says "This looks important, maybe "x" would be interested". Of clearing out the POI was the mission then some message that says who would have liked that done.

 

Now THERE is a great reason for exploring past the first city you see: Bonus rep and exp for completing quests ahead of time!

 

I can see some POI's with legendary quests become very scary places. For example the "Red Mesa" is a perfect legendary quest POI and should be feared by all but the strongest or foolhardy!

[Kinyajuu]

Quests and Quest POIs are designed to work in Random Gen as well. As ald said, it's just keeping a list, we make that list when the game loads.

[Northstar63]

Random Gen is the easy decision for me. If it was limited to Navezgane this game would be shelved for me a month or 2 after each update. After awhile you get the Navezgane map memorized, nothing more to explore or find. Finding that "perfect" build site in random, or hidden POI's in middle of nowhere keeps things fresher longer.

[zombie4hire]

My last Nav game was just after a recent Alpha was released to see some new POIs that were not in RG at the time. Once I saw them, game over.

[lumpoycustards]

I tend to think random gen quests will be as satisfying as pre-baked if they are implemented carefully.

 

With POIs being randomly placed there are potential issues with the player experience. For example you might set off on a quest that's a lot further away than it seemed and only figure it out when the sun is setting and you're in the middle of nowhere. I think we all support giving players freedom to make their own decisions, but they also need information about what they're getting into to avoid disappointment. If you see 3km and think "oh it's only 3pm there's plenty of time" then that's free choice, but if you get there and think "hmm I wouldn't have done this if I realized how long it would take", then that's something that could be avoided. Little things like "make sure you set off bright and early for this one" (dynamically added) would help maintain the player experience without getting in the way.

[LuckyStar]

Rather than polishing Navez, I prefer a SYSTEM where players can make and share maps.

[DMPlayin]

I think Navezgane is a great place for everyone to start. You can learn everything you need to know about the game right there with lots of help (location of traders etc.) readily available online so the more polish TFP can put on it, the better. New players will see what is a great game, complete with bandits and everything else they've said they want to put in it before they take on the greater challenge of a random map.

[Anoraki]

If this was A9, I would go with Navezgane as RWG was so terrible back then I thought it wouldn't go very far. Now, RWG has proven to been the future of the game and it should be pursued strongly. Any static maps made are just gonna hold dev times back for a single playthrough for the minority of players.

[Cadamier]

YAY for RWG!! From my POV - its like if you get RWG working great - then things like Navezgane will follow easily! Because 'world generation' is part of the heart of the game - anything with a predetermined map like Nagezgane shouldn't be a problem. One of my ideas was to have maps of major cities... But I don't have the time for it. Albeit I would think some modders would. Think about it - wouldn't it be cool to Stomp around in 'your back yard?' I was born in Seattle and now live in LA - to be able to load up either city would be a big plus to the 'immersion' part of the game! Albeit - I think loading up New York would be cool - but dangerous cause of all the skyscrapers!!! Not from a 'hardware' standpoint but the sheer numbers of zeds that would most likely be there... Even LA... There seemingly would be a great number of zeds all over the place!

[Blazer777]

cad the hardware issue would kill u before the zeds would lol but yeah itd be sick as flat worlds equal endless options to build

[Atrophied]

I think it’s an easy bet what will win but as a conversation starter perhaps it can have some merit. This was actually requested in the MEME thread. So have at it and be respectful of differing opinions. Obviously this not an either or question since we will eventually have both but more of a question of where should the devs be focusing most of their time and energy. I’m interested in hearing thoughts on both sides.

 

Can I inject a 3rd option ?

Workshop support for player made maps, quests, POIs, scenarios, mods and RWG presets.

What matters most, for me anyway, is for a serious feature of many awesome steam games, (modability/workshop support), be developed and tuned now before it becomes too much of a chore, if it isn't already. I think it would kick up the user base and revive the game for many.

Modding can also help with the development of the game as modders may supply unique solutions to exising problems or fine tune immersive features which can be eventually worked into the full game, providing the modder is cool with it.

[DeadMole]

I think Navezgane is a great place for everyone to start. You can learn everything you need to know about the game right there with lots of help (location of traders etc.) readily available online so the more polish TFP can put on it, the better. New players will see what is a great game, complete with bandits and everything else they've said they want to put in it before they take on the greater challenge of a random map.

 

New players will start with Navezgane and if it's not good enough for them they won't even bother trying RGW and quit playing altogether. You want the most solid Navezgane campaign to keep players hooked on the game.

[Maharin]

Can I inject a 3rd option ?

Workshop support for player made maps, quests, POIs, scenarios, mods and RWG presets.

 

It's been talked about several times. I'm thinking that may end up being a post release thing, though, if it happens at all (TFP may go with an internal method for the sake of time and save Steam Workshop integration for the next game). I'm pretty sure it's not high on the priority list at this point, at least based on dev comments about this topic (or lack thereof).

[Alphado-Jaki]

I voted to Navezgane.

 

Nav map is gradually changing less immense for me. For now, Nav has much quality compared with RGW. But as improving my RGW mod, and as seeing community made prefab, I'm feeling that its quality can be overwhelmed by user-made RGW, sooner or later.

 

So, I'm really glad to hear A17 has huge improvement of Nav, not only prefab position, but also terrain and biome distributions. I'm sure I will play on Navezgane at first play of A17.

[fragtzack]

IMO, a "ten pack" of prepared-polished maps like Navezgamne would make for great paid DLC. Heck, I would pay for that DLC happily even in the current alpha state.

 

So many possibilities:

 

A themed snowy map

Themed desert map

Themed high mountains

Themed large cities

Themed water map, with lots of crafted bridges

 

So many possibilities..

[DeadMole]

I'm sure I will play on Navezgane at first play of A17.

 

It makes sense to go back in the good old Navezgane to see what changed with a new alpha. When you know it well, then you can notice the changes easily. It's useful to know your way around it so you can travel across the map to check out what's new. You can be sure I'm going to visit the new Diersville right away when I start playing A17.

[toores]

It makes sense to go back in the good old Navezgane to see what changed with a new alpha. When you know it well, then you can notice the changes easily. It's useful to know your way around it so you can travel across the map to check out what's new. You can be sure I'm going to visit the new Diersville right away when I start playing A17.

 

OR.. it is a perfect time to refrain from playing Navezgane to get better experience when the game goes gold. After all, Navezgane will be the most detailed map. Knowing it by memory would take half the fun away.

 

I actually haven't played Navezgane (other then testing base builds) since random gen was introduced.

[mdf25]

I think RWG, since I think whatever works in RWG in terms of quests and POIs would work in Navezgane as well, since if you can get stuff working on a dynamic random world that may or may not have certain elements such as quest POIs, completion points, etc. then it should be a relatively straightforward process to put that work into Navezgane since it's static - so would boil down to a reduction of variables from how I see it.

 

Personally I never play on Navezgane unless it's for an event or something where we need a map everybody knows. The last time I played Navz was back in A15, I haven't even touched it on A16 for actual playthrough purposes, only modding purposes where I need a quick loading world.

 

Now what WOULD be amazing is if players when designing their own maps could have those maps randomly generated in RWG. So for example instead of finding a collection of towns in an area it could lead nicely into a player made city or location. That way thinking about future workshop integration with Steam Workshop, all you'd need to do to have more random maps spawn in RWG would be to download more maps from steam, which could be either dev made or player made. So if I downloaded 3 separate maps I could choose to play them individually or there would be a chance that on my next RWG game that these maps may or may not generate in the world.

 

Or you could make it so that you needed to travel through radiation zones to get to the other maps. Maybe an endgame thing where you have to reach a certain point in one of those player made maps to 'escape' the apocalypse and get taken to the White River settlement, but to get there you have to don a hazmat suit and traverse the radiation zone which would have tough bosses, zombie bears, rad cops... All sorts of nasties that you wouldn't hope to take on without sufficient gear and experience. Like an area that pretty much says 'If you're under level 190, you're going to die horribly in the first 10 minutes unless you're a lucky son of a gun'.

[DeadMole]

OR.. it is a perfect time to refrain from playing Navezgane to get better experience when the game goes gold. After all, Navezgane will be the most detailed map. Knowing it by memory would take half the fun away.

 

The whole point of playing a game still in alpha is to test it. I'm not going to refrain playing anything, on the contrary. If I wanted a better experience and to keep it fresh, I would wait for the game to go gold before playing it at all. Knowing Navezgane by memory just makes it easier to navigate it, instead of having to look at a map.

[Red Eagle LXIX]

I agree.....BUT.....eventually what could be better than random gen would be dozens of thoughtfully designed maps with a nice quest chain to tell a story. True, each map would only be fun to play once but with enough of them you would have quite a bit of replay value.

 

Polishing Navezgane gets the devs to include better tools that will hopefully become part of the level editor so that user created maps will proliferate and be filled with awesomely designed terrain landmarks (like the chasm) that won’t ever be able to be included in random gen which will always have generic features rather than designed and sculpted features.

I think if that was the target (the tools for more maps) the poll might have been better as a 3 choicer with the additional choice something like "Additional maps or map creation tools".

I think the vote might not have been so one-sided.

 

I still would have voted Random, but I like random worlds.

 

Edit:

To be clear, it is not that I dislike Navezgane. Think it is great in fact. I can't wait for the full story and everything to be added to it and I do play it each version. Just that Navezgane is known so well I have to force to play different each time, and even then have the crutch to fall back on of knowing where things are.

Random just feels more survival, plus well, new exploration. Heck, look at my Steam screenshots I even enjoy just previewing the maps.