The Offtopic, A17 thread.

[Shado47]

No, we are not done.

If you want to talk about real statistically, let me go.

 

In this world, the Human sex ratio its like 101 males to 100 females. But, in USA, the proportion of females is higher than males. In 7DTD there is 9 female zombies and 20 male zombies.

In 7DTD there is only male traders.

If you have been seen the video about survivors/bandits.. there is one female to 7 male npcs.

 

So woman can be weaker, in general, in real life. But like you said, ITS a game. A game about zombies. Have you seen a zombie to tell me that the males will be stronger than the females zombies? i guess not.

 

I respect your opinion, but i totally disagree with it.

Also, no one is talking about the Rotting Carcas zombie (he has half of his head chopped, cant walk well, but still stronger than all female zombies, except the fat girl).

 

Alright then lets keep playing. Yes, 101 males to 100 females and yes, in the USA, there are more women than men. 9 female and 20 male zombies in the game I suppose is true, I haven't counted them - have you included the hazmat zombie as female in that list? The hazmat one is female. Depending on that, it might be 10:19. But if we actually take a closer look at them, the zombies that are basically just urban are actually half each gender - the majority of the male zombies comes from all the special zombies.

There is no need in the game for a male and a female version of soldier zombies, a male and a female version of the utility worker zombies, a male and a female version of nurses (!), a male and a female version of hazmat zombies (!), a male and a female version of biker zombies, etc.

Thats pointless.

 

But if you look at the special zombies you can quickly identify why they have that specific distribution.

More men are soldiers than women - so making the soldier zombies male makes sense. There is no female version because that wastes space in the atlas that can be used for other zeds later on, it uses resources and as a special zombie is so rare that it wouldnt show up that often anyways.

Same thing applies to utility worker zombies - more men work as utility workers than women, far more actually, so making them male makes perfect sense.

Same thing applies to the bikers - the majority of bikers in Europe and the United States and Canada (There are no reliable statistics for other regions) are male. Making them male only makes sense.

Same applies to the businessmen zombies - more men work in desk jobs than women. Makes sense to add them male.

Now lets check the argument the other way - what about female dominated jobs? Science? Alot of women in science, the majority of scientists are women nowadays. And so the hazmat zombies are female. Makes sense.

More women are in medicine fields - and the only medicine-related zombie is the nurse - female.

So we see the argument stands both ways.

 

Also hordes are essentially composed of pretty much 50:50 in terms of gender. There are simply more special male zombies that only show up in very certain areas.

 

In 7dtd the traders are only male right now but thats because thats just a very simple implementation and nowhere near finished. Proof of concept. Bare bones. Tweaked so its functional but there will be female traders I bet.

Same goes for the bandits. Yes in the video there was just one female bandit mentioned. But thats not representative. There will be more NPC factions and way more NPCs by the time they are implemented and will be finished (most likely not in the same version where they will be implemented).

 

Also you trying to make the "its a game" point only apply to your arguments and not mine doesnt really make sense. It either applies generally, then why take things this serious at all? Or we leave it by the side and ignore the fact that its a game. But it doesnt make sense if you disagree with my arguments (which are backed by facts and facts dont care about your feelings) but then come and use a point I made to counter my arguments.

 

I respectfully disagree with your ill-informed opinion.

Have a good day.

[Odetta]

Yes, you can disagre. What you said is correct but in this game your damage is based on your skills levels and not absortion. So does not matter if the zombie has 200 HP or 500 HP if your damage will be 50 in both.. Once girls has less HP, they are weaker then.

 

And also, there is no explanation by devs from damage done by the zombies. But guess what, you can see how much HP madmole lost in the game to the girl zombie attack and to the male one.. and guess what? He lost more damage to the male zombie attack.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

Sry, but i do not remeber a single zombie game that makes male zombies stronger than female just because of their genders. But you can tell me some..

 

Nice strawman, almost thought you actually had something to say.

[zWolfer]

Alright then lets keep playing. Yes, 101 males to 100 females and yes, in the USA, there are more women than men. 9 female and 20 male zombies in the game I suppose is true, I haven't counted them - have you included the hazmat zombie as female in that list? The hazmat one is female. Depending on that, it might be 10:19. But if we actually take a closer look at them, the zombies that are basically just urban are actually half each gender - the majority of the male zombies comes from all the special zombies.

There is no need in the game for a male and a female version of soldier zombies, a male and a female version of the utility worker zombies, a male and a female version of nurses (!), a male and a female version of hazmat zombies (!), a male and a female version of biker zombies, etc.

Thats pointless.

 

But if you look at the special zombies you can quickly identify why they have that specific distribution.

More men are soldiers than women - so making the soldier zombies male makes sense. There is no female version because that wastes space in the atlas that can be used for other zeds later on, it uses resources and as a special zombie is so rare that it wouldnt show up that often anyways.

Same thing applies to utility worker zombies - more men work as utility workers than women, far more actually, so making them male makes perfect sense.

Same thing applies to the bikers - the majority of bikers in Europe and the United States and Canada (There are no reliable statistics for other regions) are male. Making them male only makes sense.

Same applies to the businessmen zombies - more men work in desk jobs than women. Makes sense to add them male.

Now lets check the argument the other way - what about female dominated jobs? Science? Alot of women in science, the majority of scientists are women nowadays. And so the hazmat zombies are female. Makes sense.

More women are in medicine fields - and the only medicine-related zombie is the nurse - female.

So we see the argument stands both ways.

 

Also hordes are essentially composed of pretty much 50:50 in terms of gender. There are simply more special male zombies that only show up in very certain areas.

 

In 7dtd the traders are only male right now but thats because thats just a very simple implementation and nowhere near finished. Proof of concept. Bare bones. Tweaked so its functional but there will be female traders I bet.

Same goes for the bandits. Yes in the video there was just one female bandit mentioned. But thats not representative. There will be more NPC factions and way more NPCs by the time they are implemented and will be finished (most likely not in the same version where they will be implemented).

 

Also you trying to make the "its a game" point only apply to your arguments and not mine doesnt really make sense. It either applies generally, then why take things this serious at all? Or we leave it by the side and ignore the fact that its a game. But it doesnt make sense if you disagree with my arguments (which are backed by facts and facts dont care about your feelings) but then come and use a point I made to counter my arguments.

 

I respectfully disagree with your ill-informed opinion.

Have a good day.

 

First, you precipted about hazmat zombie, like patch notes from alpha 16 says: "Removed zombies – The miner zombie and the female hazmat zombie have been removed as they didn’t offer enough variance to earn a permanent job at team Z."

 

Second, i agree with you, there is no need for a male/female version from each zombie.

 

Third, about 50:50 horde, that does not bothers me if it was different, cuz it should be random and based on player kills or whatever.

 

Fourth, i know the game is not finished yet, and maybe for it there is no female traders or npcs coming up, but like we all know, alpha means adding everything and when the game launch, they just fix it... If they are not adding them now, i guess they wont do it later too.

 

and Last, you ignored again, the fact that there is a rotting carcas male zombie..........

[Xtrakicking]

Edit: to all others. Apologies for my walls of text here, I just easily get carried away in debates with SJWs. I enjoy these conversations more than I should probably. hehe ^^

 

No worries, but remember, never argue with trolls. They will drag you to their level and beat you with experience.

[The Gronk]

Fourth, i know the game is not finished yet, and maybe for it there is no female traders or npcs coming up, but like we all know, alpha means adding everything and when the game launch, they just fix it... If they are not adding them now, i guess they wont do it later too.

 

Which just goes to prove you know as much about game design as you do about gender reassignment surgery.

[Shado47]

First, you precipted about hazmat zombie, like patch notes from alpha 16 says: "Removed zombies – The miner zombie and the female hazmat zombie have been removed as they didn’t offer enough variance to earn a permanent job at team Z."

 

Second, i agree with you, there is no need for a male/female version from each zombie.

 

Third, about 50:50 horde, that does not bothers me if it was different, cuz it should be random and based on player kills or whatever.

 

Fourth, i know the game is not finished yet, and maybe for it there is no female traders or npcs coming up, but like we all know, alpha means adding everything and when the game launch, they just fix it... If they are not adding them now, i guess they wont do it later too.

 

and Last, you ignored again, the fact that there is a rotting carcas male zombie..........

 

1. The hazmat zombie that was removed was the male one. The patchnotes arent accurate. Go ingame, hit a hazmat zombie, you'll notice it makes female sounds.

Miner zombie was removed and was male, so thats actually -1 special male zombie.

 

2. Exactly

 

3. Since hordes are 50:50 right now with the exception of the military horde, everything should be fine.

 

4. Actually "when the game launches, they just fix" isnt accurate. Beta is the fixing and optimizing phase, after the full release most companies either stop development entirely OR go back to content updates, which I assume will happen here. And yes for all we know they might stick with all-male traders. And the 7:1 ratio on bandits. Or they might not. Impossible to tell right now.

 

5. I didnt take that as a serious argument. The rotting carcass is also so weak it basically dies from one hit with a decent melee weapon every single time, so I dont exactly see the point you are trying to make. Just because half his skull is open doesnt really mean anything in regards to how strong the zombie will actually be. Other zombies have very harsh injuries as well and still have properties identical to zombies that are not as damaged. Its just design. If you want to be able to kill it instantly with a hit to that open area in the skull, thats just a whole lot of coding work to make the hitboxes have tiny areas on them that are more weak than others. They'd have to make headshots with arrows through the eyes instakills as well, and so on. Your argument is invalid..........

 

No worries, but remember, never argue with trolls. They will drag you to their level and beat you with experience.

 

I have been debating SJWs and the likes for years and years. They can try to beat me in a debate, but it has yet to happen. ^^ Also knowing alot of facts is a huge bonus as well - in a proper debate, facts will always trump SJW feelings.

[zWolfer]

1. The hazmat zombie that was removed was the male one. The patchnotes arent accurate. Go ingame, hit a hazmat zombie, you'll notice it makes female sounds.

Miner zombie was removed and was male, so thats actually -1 special male zombie.

 

2. Exactly

 

3. Since hordes are 50:50 right now with the exception of the military horde, everything should be fine.

 

4. Actually "when the game launches, they just fix" isnt accurate. Beta is the fixing and optimizing phase, after the full release most companies either stop development entirely OR go back to content updates, which I assume will happen here. And yes for all we know they might stick with all-male traders. And the 7:1 ratio on bandits. Or they might not. Impossible to tell right now.

 

5. I didnt take that as a serious argument. The rotting carcass is also so weak it basically dies from one hit with a decent melee weapon every single time, so I dont exactly see the point you are trying to make. Just because half his skull is open doesnt really mean anything in regards to how strong the zombie will actually be. Other zombies have very harsh injuries as well and still have properties identical to zombies that are not as damaged. Its just design. If you want to be able to kill it instantly with a hit to that open area in the skull, thats just a whole lot of coding work to make the hitboxes have tiny areas on them that are more weak than others. They'd have to make headshots with arrows through the eyes instakills as well, and so on. Your argument is invalid..........

 

 

 

I have been debating SJWs and the likes for years and years. They can try to beat me in a debate, but it has yet to happen. ^^ Also knowing alot of facts is a huge bonus as well - in a proper debate, facts will always trump SJW feelings.

 

1- The hazmat female zombie had "boobs".. so they really removed her, but if your hazmat sounds like a woman, maybe its a bug.

 

4- They did 16 alphas, what is very nice. So, because of it, i think there will be no more release after the game launch, they just are working on everything now. But if they do add more things after the official release, this will be great for all of us.

 

5- Its valid. You said he basically dies from one hit, but he has 2x times HP from Nurse, who has a better body condition. So for him, he should have less HP than others zombies, like the crawling one.

 

But man, i can thank you. There is a lot of trolls in forums and it is hard to see someone to talk about with respect. We started disagreeing but we found some pieces where we agree. This is cool.

[The Gronk]

1- The hazmat female zombie had "boobs".. so they really removed her, but if your hazmat sounds like a woman, maybe its a bug.

 

It's sexist to assume all women have boobs, there are many out there who do not have an appreciable cleavage in the same way that it's sexist to assume that all men do not have boobs, there are many out there with more cleavage than they would like.

[zWolfer]

It's sexist to assume all women have boobs, there are many out there who do not have an appreciable cleavage in the same way that it's sexist to assume that all men do not have boobs, there are many out there with more cleavage than they would like.

 

Omg, you troll right?

There was 2 hazmat.

One called Hazmat male zombie and another called Hazmat female zombie.

The hazmat called Hazmat female zombie had boobs. So they were created by devs with "female" in her name and boobs, so yes, she was a woman. Please stop trolling. This is sad.

[Shado47]

1- The hazmat female zombie had "boobs".. so they really removed her, but if your hazmat sounds like a woman, maybe its a bug.

 

4- They did 16 alphas, what is very nice. So, because of it, i think there will be no more release after the game launch, they just are working on everything now. But if they do add more things after the official release, this will be great for all of us.

 

5- Its valid. You said he basically dies from one hit, but he has 2x times HP from Nurse, who has a better body condition. So for him, he should have less HP than others zombies, like the crawling one.

 

But man, i can thank you. There is a lot of trolls in forums and it is hard to see someone to talk about with respect. We started disagreeing but we found some pieces where we agree. This is cool.

 

1. Aye maybe it is a bug but its not just on my system - all hazmat zombies make female sounds, I have seen this in streams as well. Also when you wear a hazmat suit I doubt you'd see much of a chest on female ones. Hazmat suits usually are nowhere near skin-tight.

 

4. Yeah its just a hope I have that they will keep adding stuff after the final version. But I think it is actually very likely. I mean, look at these devs. The first alpha came out in 2013 and even when the sales went down they kept faith in their product and just released update after update after update. These guys have a vision and it keeps evolving and it will keep evolving even after release. I cant think of a single other team of developers that have as much faith in their product as these guys do. Working on a game that doesnt get very good reviews from review sites, that doesnt get hyped, that is still in Alpha. Thats difficult. But they keep working on it, and working on it, and working on it.

I mean sure they sometimes do very unnecessary stuff, they have reworked the crafting 3 times, redone terrain gen many times, redone the skill tree many times... they do sometimes reinvent the wheel, but overall the vast majority of stuff they add is new content that adds more and more gameplay. Check out this comment I wrote where I compared 7dtd to other survival games that have been in development for about the same while, its really worth the read!

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?74084-Developer-Diary-Alpha-17&p=802283&viewfull=1#post802283

 

5. I honestly havent looked up the exact HP values of the nurse and the rotting carcass. Like I said the injury is purely cosmetic, but even if we ignore that, I dont see it making a difference. Maybe thats because in most 7dtd games I play, after 80 days I usually have like 2000 zombie kills. They dont really matter much anymore. Also the female stripper zombies are tough, tougher than most male zombies of the same size.

 

And regarding your last statement. Yes I find it very refreshing to actually be able to have such a conversation until the end with someone with rather feminist views on certain things - many times my conversation partners just bugger off into their safe spaces after 2-3 messages.

Thanks for having this civilized conversation with me. I appreciate it.

[The Gronk]

Omg, you troll right?

There was 2 hazmat.

One called Hazmat male zombie and another called Hazmat female zombie.

The hazmat called Hazmat female zombie had boobs. So they were created by devs with "female" in her name and boobs, so yes, she was a woman. Please stop trolling. This is sad.

 

Have you ever met a woman with an a-cup? They would not be seen through a hazmat suit.

 

Gender and gender-bias is something I take very seriously. I have many friends in the gay community and several who are pre or post transition into their preferred gender, both males who are becoming female and females who are becoming male. If your going to get all SJW I suggest you do some research first.

[zWolfer]

Check out this comment I wrote where I compared 7dtd to other survival games that have been in development for about the same while, its really worth the read!

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?74084-Developer-Diary-Alpha-17&p=802283&viewfull=1#post802283

 

And regarding your last statement. Yes I find it very refreshing to actually be able to have such a conversation until the end with someone with rather feminist views on certain things - many times my conversation partners just bugger off into their safe spaces after 2-3 messages.

Thanks for having this civilized conversation with me. I appreciate it.

 

Wow, nice point of view in your comment. I have friends that likes to compare 7DTD with those games and another survivals.. I could include "just survive" too. But like you said they are all different, those games and 7DTD only havein common the fact they are open world survivor games.

 

But when you said that 7DTD have been called as a "more mature minecraft", that makes me feel sad. First its because to me 7DTD is so much better than all others survival games you mentioned and i can tell it because i got them all. Second, the devs is giving us more than they promised and we are able to share with them our feedbacks and ideas, not every game campany does it.

Since Alpha 13, when they released alpha 14 I was "wow, there is nothing more to add", then alpha 14 and then alpha 15, 16 and still adding and working on added stuff to make it even better or work better..

 

So, does not think because I'm giving feedbacks on zombies HP that I dont like the game or the way it is.. Its the opposite, i really love it, and its why I'm here.

 

Common, we can dig and build an underground base, or inside the water, or almost in the sky. We can have 5464 days, you always can die if you dont be focused when looting houses... This is incredible (as not is my english, i know :/)

[Guppycur]

I can respect your opinion while disagreeing with it.

 

HP does not equate to strength, it equates to Health Points. Your unit of measurement is fundamentally wrong. Strength would be determined by the amount of damage done, not by the amount of damage that can be absorbed.

 

@Tin? ;-)

[Snowydeath]

This is understandable. But like i said too, Rotting Carcas zombie is a male zombie that has half of his head chopped, cant walk well, but still stronger than all female zombies, except for the fat girl. So you used the science to tell me mans are strongers than female, but the science also does tell that the rotting zombie should be weaker because of his body, almost "done".. :0

 

Yes, show me the science about zombies! Oh wait, it's pure fiction, take your bait and scram kiddo. We don't need your kind here.

[Guppycur]

@zWolfer

 

Your entire argument seems to hinge on one particular male zombie being stronger than the regular female zombies... We don't know anything about that male zombie though, for all we know, he is special. Or, likely an oversight. Either way it doesn't prove your point, sorry homie.

 

...now, if there was a black zombie that had a faster run speed than the white zombies, you'd have a bone of contention, but so far after reading your arguments, I'm not convinced.

 

The physically larger zombies, as a general rule, have more hp than the smaller ones. So mms comments track with the design.

 

...do an Elsa, let it go. =)

 

(And welcome to the forums)

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Oh, and @everyone else... He's not being a ♥♥♥♥, he's being polite and trying to present a legitimate argument... Why the hate?

[zWolfer]

@zWolfer

 

Your entire argument seems to hinge on one particular make zombie being stronger than the regular female zombies... We don't know anything about that male zombie though, for all we know, he is special. Or, likely an oversight. Either way it doesn't prove your point, sorry homie.

 

...now, if there was a black zombie that had a faster run speed than the white zombies, you'd have a bone of contention, but so far after reading your arguments, I'm not convinced.

 

The physically larger zombies, as a general rule, have more hp than the smaller ones. So mms comments track with the design.

 

...do an Elsa, let it go. =)

 

(And welcome to the forums)

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Oh, and @everyone else... He's not being a ♥♥♥♥, he's being polite and trying to present a legitimate argument... Why the hate?

 

Yea, ill let it go. But I still think genders should not be taken as strenght. Size, muscles and customization is ok, but not the gender. Whatever, thank you for welcoming me. ^^

[The Gronk]

Oh, and @everyone else... He's not being a ♥♥♥♥, he's being polite and trying to present a legitimate argument... Why the hate?

 

My main bone of contention was that boobs + high pitched voice = female. W.G Grace had boobs and a high pitched voice, that didn't make him a woman.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24337[/ATTACH]

[Snowydeath]

That person doesn't truly understand what he is arguing about and is just trying to stir something up in these forums. He/She/It just has too much time on its hands and want's to feel like the center of attention I'm sure. Hence the only bringing up 1 male zombie type and most of what he tries to argue. But we can all just let it go now, no reason to feed its ego.

 

--PS--

 

Not trying to be mean but that's what my observation was.

[Shado47]

 

Oh, and @everyone else... He's not being a ♥♥♥♥, he's being polite and trying to present a legitimate argument... Why the hate?

 

Well I was having this conversation very civilized, it was mostly the Gronkh who kept trolling a bit here and there, and other just being offended by us having this conversation here. Either way its over now. And you are right, zWolfer was polite.

 

That person doesn't truly understand what he is arguing about and is just trying to stir something up in these forums. He/She/It just has too much time on its hands and want's to feel like the center of attention I'm sure. Hence the only bringing up 1 male zombie type and most of what he tries to argue. But we can all just let it go now, no reason to feed its ego.

 

--PS--

 

Not trying to be mean but that's what my observation was.

 

Your observation is wrong. By you saying "he doesnt understand what he is arguing about" you are actually more or less actively trying to offend him despite the conversation being over. He didnt try to stir up anything either. Sure looked like it at the beginning, I thought his post was bait at first, but it turns out it wasnt and he stands by his views but also admits to when he is wrong about something and can come to even agree on certain things.

[Guppycur]

I think it's safe to say that boobs + high pitch voice = female.

 

The exception proves the rule.

 

It's a generalization, sure, but so is male = more hp.

[Bubo]

[Tilleen]

Yep, boobs do not make the person. I've got male friends with a larger cup-size than some of my ex-girlfriends :-)

 

That was not an image that any one wanted to think about!!! :-)

[The Gronk]

I think it's safe to say that boobs + high pitch voice = female.

 

The exception proves the rule.

 

It's a generalization, sure, but so is male = more hp.

 

Male = more hp was the generalization that started all of this.

[Tin]

Quote Originally Posted by The Gronk View Post

I can respect your opinion while disagreeing with it.

 

HP does not equate to strength, it equates to Health Points. Your unit of measurement is fundamentally wrong. Strength would be determined by the amount of damage done, not by the amount of damage that can be absorbed.

 

@Tin? ;-)

 

Hmmm, this sound familiar..

OH yeah!

I vaguely remember I won that discussion .. at least that's what I'm telling myself lol

 

@MM: At the very least can you leave the textures and tree prefabs in so we can add them in at a later time?

Oh! and can we get a touch of dithering in Nav pls? Unless you already have it in A17 that is.

[skippy0330]

I personally find it offensive the zombies have a gender at all. why would we assume what a rotting pile of meat was. Whats so wrong with a dude dressing up as a stripper or nurse before dying to zombies? or a lady to dress up as a big zombie dude. I am highly offended, please remove genders, don't make me make a petition. Sexists.