Version 1.0 (Alpha 22) Dev Diary

[Adam the Waster]

2 minutes ago, SnowDog1942 said:

Recently Started a co-op game and we each got seperate trader “intro” quests.   We each have to do quests individually?

Yes. Even to progress through tiers. 

[SnowDog1942]

2 minutes ago, Adam the Waster said:

Yes. Even to progress through tiers. 

Ugh , that is pretty dumb honestly.   Defeats the point of co-op

[ssrjazz]

Not true.  Only the intro quest is solo.  The others you get get shared and you can do them cooperatively

[FramFramson]

33 minutes ago, ssrjazz said:

Not true.  Only the intro quest is solo.  The others you get get shared and you can do them cooperatively

 

Rewards are shared but only one person gets the trader rank.

 

This is okay for groups who have a single person dedicated to trader interactions, but not for any co op groups with a looser structure.

[ssrjazz]

4 minutes ago, FramFramson said:

 

Rewards are shared but only one person gets the trader rank.

 

This is okay for groups who have a single person dedicated to trader interactions, but not for any co op groups with a looser structure.

We all get quests at the same time and then do them all together.  Don't see this as a game breaking issue.

[Phoenixshade35]

2 hours ago, Zombiepoptard said:

7 days to die 2 has to be a valedictorian vampire game set in a tesla punk universe. Cars would still be a thing. Horses would be vehicles too. Blood moon would still be a thing. Zombies would be replace by ghouls. Guns would have fancy  looking designs. You would be a Christian vampire hunter and all traders would set up shop in churches. It would be like Castlevania x 7 days to die. Everything that you want could transfer over to this setting. It would then continue on with developing the 7 days to die system further. 

I would kinda like to see one where you are stuck on a space station and the station continues to replicate rooms, zombies everywhere, your "claim" is a room you fix the circuit breaker on so it does not get destroyed and redistributed, could happen every midnight, you go through salvaging different tek to fortify your part of the station while also having to deal with oxygen and meteor storms, cosmic storms and maybe alien raids where the zombies attack them as well, and if you repair the airlock the alien ship is yours to strip apart for rare materials and alien gadgets

[katarynna]

1 hour ago, FramFramson said:

 

Rewards are shared but only one person gets the trader rank.

 

This is okay for groups who have a single person dedicated to trader interactions, but not for any co op groups with a looser structure.

 

Since groups complete quests exponentially faster than a solo person, it seems reasonable to me that they get the quest reward but not the progression. 

 

While they would have to complete more t2 quests to progress everyone to t3, for example, they would not spend much more time than a single person progressing alone from t2 to t3.

 

Watching streamers in groups of 3-6 doing quests is completely boring to me, because they all rush in an blow up everything that moves. Even t4/infested t5 quests are over too fast to bother watching. 

 

As long as time spent is not too much higher, i think it is fine as is.  i haven't started my group run yet, so holding final judgement til then to see how the tiers progress compared to single player.

[Riamus]

2 hours ago, Adam the Waster said:

Yes. Even to progress through tiers. 

Only the special quest, like that intro and the open trade routes are individual.  But you don't all get tier points when sharing quests.  You get everything else.  It still sucks.

[TWORDY]

I am completely hooked up with a new alpha version of 7dtd. 

 

As soon as I started the game nice ambient sounds, new detailed textures, reflections, new outfits, and foggy landscapes made a huge difference. The player movement is much better, I would rather say that the combat is way more responsive! Character animations and movement feel phenomenal to what it was before. 

 

Today, I played 80 min with my 3 mates. Unfortunately, only one person seems to gain trader progression points. I would rather revamp such progression in another way. For example, every participant should rather take a fraction of traders progression. It does feel like a party leader takes all the juice and the rest falls behind. Right now, going solo is far less complicated and much more readable gameplay-wise. I have no idea who came up with this particular solution. I would rather see 2 players split the progression automatically without worrying about who clicks the yellow exclamation mark first.

[Riamus]

16 minutes ago, katarynna said:

 

Since groups complete quests exponentially faster than a solo person, it seems reasonable to me that they get the quest reward but not the progression. 

 

While they would have to complete more t2 quests to progress everyone to t3, for example, they would not spend much more time than a single person progressing alone from t2 to t3.

 

Watching streamers in groups of 3-6 doing quests is completely boring to me, because they all rush in an blow up everything that moves. Even t4/infested t5 quests are over too fast to bother watching. 

 

As long as time spent is not too much higher, i think it is fine as is.  i haven't started my group run yet, so holding final judgement til then to see how the tiers progress compared to single player.

The thing is, it is quite a bit higher.  A single player can do 5 quests per day and finish a tier on 2 days.  8 players, on the other hand, have to do 80 "on level" quests for everyone to complete a tier.  That is going to take much longer than 2 days if you quest as a group instead of individually, no matter how fast you can complete each quest.

[katarynna]

1 minute ago, Riamus said:

The thing is, it is quite a bit higher.  A single player can do 5 quests per day and finish a tier on 2 days.  8 players, on the other hand, have to do 80 "on level" quests for everyone to complete a tier.  That is going to take much longer than 2 days if you quest as a group instead of individually, no matter how fast you can complete each quest.

 

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should or will do it.

 

For t1 quests, i usually do 2 per day, sometimes just 1, and very rarely 3.

 

There are other things that need to be done, and they are being done by just me. Base building, resource gathering, crafting, farming, hunting, etc.

 

Last alpha, i would get my bike on about day 3-5, only needing 7 quests. 

 

Trying to base the vanilla game on what min/maxxers CAN do doesn't seem like the best idea to me.

 

If overall. i complete t1 traders on day 5 in solo and day 8 in multiplayer, i personally will consider it unbalanced. But in relation to how managing the entire scope of activities, not just "how fast can i possibly progress quest tiers".

 

In multplayer, you are getting 2 or 3 or 5 or 8 times as much materials harvested to build 1 base. You can have someone mining while someone else is building and a 3rd is gathering wood and a 4th is building dew collectors and farm plots.

 

My a21 multiplayer games with one other person progressed much more than 2 times faster than my single player games. 

 

I think OVERALL questing tiers should unlock at about the same pace or slightly slower than single player. Everything else except food/water already progresses much, much more quickly in multiplayer. 

 

But I don't agree at all that the only criteria that should be used is how fast it is possible to do something if that is the only thing you prioritize, either in single player or coop.

[Riamus]

5 hours ago, katarynna said:

 

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should or will do it.

 

For t1 quests, i usually do 2 per day, sometimes just 1, and very rarely 3.

 

There are other things that need to be done, and they are being done by just me. Base building, resource gathering, crafting, farming, hunting, etc.

 

Last alpha, i would get my bike on about day 3-5, only needing 7 quests. 

 

Trying to base the vanilla game on what min/maxxers CAN do doesn't seem like the best idea to me.

 

If overall. i complete t1 traders on day 5 in solo and day 8 in multiplayer, i personally will consider it unbalanced. But in relation to how managing the entire scope of activities, not just "how fast can i possibly progress quest tiers".

 

In multplayer, you are getting 2 or 3 or 5 or 8 times as much materials harvested to build 1 base. You can have someone mining while someone else is building and a 3rd is gathering wood and a 4th is building dew collectors and farm plots.

 

My a21 multiplayer games with one other person progressed much more than 2 times faster than my single player games. 

 

I think OVERALL questing tiers should unlock at about the same pace or slightly slower than single player. Everything else except food/water already progresses much, much more quickly in multiplayer. 

 

But I don't agree at all that the only criteria that should be used is how fast it is possible to do something if that is the only thing you prioritize, either in single player or coop.

It has nothing to do with min/max.  I was using what TFP set as what you are allowed to do as an example.  No matter how fast you play, you still have to do 10 quests per player per tier.  With 8 players, that's 80 quests for a single tier.  That's insane.  It doesn't matter if you do that at 5 quests per day or 1 quest per day.  I used the max per day as a reference point because it gives a clear indication of the problem.  They can easily limit how fast you can progress in tiers so that it is the same max amount no matter how many players are in the party.  I gave an example of how to do that in the thread related to this.

 

The point I was showing is that multiplayer IS much slower than single player now.  To show that, I needed an example with a set number of quests per day.  If you prefer to do one quest per day, you'd get to tier 2 after 10 days in single player.  With 8 players all questing together on doing only one quest per day, it would take you 80 days for all to reach tier 2.  See?  Nothing to do with min/max.

Edited Thursday at 05:59 AM by Riamus (see edit history)

[Roland]

Every group is different. In my group of three, we have always quested together. We just find it more fulfilling and fun and cooperative to conquer jobs together. We also all like to rank up the quest tiers together. Simply shifting to doing quests separately and alone is not an option we want to take but right now it is 30 quests per tier for us if we keep it at default and continue to play as we have done in the past. Our short-term solution has been to change the value to 5 quests per tier in the xml which is fine for us since we are family and really do always quest together and no one is going to spam a bunch of quests solo to take advantage of the lower number. So we are currently doing 15 quests per tier so we can all progress together which feels a lot better than 30.

 

We are going to try having one of us be the designated Quester and try a playthrough that way on our next run. It isn't what we are used to but it will probably turn out to be fine. It will be a faster progression than what we are currently doing and it will force us to craft stuff we always relied on for tier completion rewards so that might be a plus.

[RussianMafia]

Also, understand that now once for example you reach Tier 3 with one trader and go to another trader is another biome, the quests will continue from Tier 3 instead of resetting to Tier 1 so that offsets to some extent the new trader rank system. 🤔

[Riamus]

20 minutes ago, RussianMafia said:

Also, understand that now once for example you reach Tier 3 with one trader and go to another trader is another biome, the quests will continue from Tier 3 instead of resetting to Tier 1 so that offsets to some extent the new trader rank system. 🤔

It doesn't change the fact that there isn't a good reason to quest together anymore in multiplayer, especially with more people.  It just takes way too long.  Yes, all traders are tied together.  I didn't really care that they weren't before.  I don't care that quest rewards are nerfed significantly.  I also don't care that they increased the number of quests required to go up a tier.  But when you have to do a crazy number of quests in multiplayer if questing together to get everyone up a tier, that isn't good.  8 players all questing together who all want to level their tiers together to to tier must do 80 quests for every tier now.  The relatively minor change of tying traders together doesn't really offset that too much except with a couple players.

[Zombiepoptard]

8 hours ago, Phoenixshade35 said:

I would kinda like to see one where you are stuck on a space station and the station continues to replicate rooms, zombies everywhere, your "claim" is a room you fix the circuit breaker on so it does not get destroyed and redistributed, could happen every midnight, you go through salvaging different tek to fortify your part of the station while also having to deal with oxygen and meteor storms, cosmic storms and maybe alien raids where the zombies attack them as well, and if you repair the airlock the alien ship is yours to strip apart for rare materials and alien gadgets

 

That would be to different to be a 7dtd2.

 

I'm kinda married to the idea of Victorian Tesla punk Van Helsing gothic game.

 

Holy magic, creative inventions like electric weapons, equipment and traps. 

 

Huge castle pois, villages, catacombs, dungeons, mansions, dense abandoned cities.

 

They would have a bell going off once night comes or blood moon is out. 

 

Enemies would be werewolf, vampiric ghouls, little Frankenstein electric enemies, huge bats, minions, human goons, witches/ warlocks dare i say zombies.

 

biomes would be swaps, foggy forrest, snowy, dead lands (a more flashy end game sort of area were maybe stuff glows and looks like the burnt forest.)

 

in my mind it just translate well with out straying way to much from the gameplay aspects of 7dtd. Sense it is "7 day to die" it doesn't have to be about zombies only.

 

also Joel talked about it a loooooooong time ago on if they were going to make another game. He said something like "modern day vampires but also maybe something more ambitious. Modern day vampires would be lame because I want to see a whole different setting in a mix between Industrial Revolution and medieval times. 

 

[katarynna]

2 hours ago, Riamus said:

It doesn't change the fact that there isn't a good reason to quest together anymore in multiplayer, especially with more people.  It just takes way too long.  Yes, all traders are tied together.  I didn't really care that they weren't before.  I don't care that quest rewards are nerfed significantly.  I also don't care that they increased the number of quests required to go up a tier.  But when you have to do a crazy number of quests in multiplayer if questing together to get everyone up a tier, that isn't good.  8 players all questing together who all want to level their tiers together to to tier must do 80 quests for every tier now.  The relatively minor change of tying traders together doesn't really offset that too much except with a couple players.

 

The question to me is does it take more days on average for coop players to complete quest tiers versus solo players.

 

Coop players have much more time available to quest because they have to spend much less time overall gathering resources, building bases, farming, crafting, etc since there are multiple people to divide the tasks among. They may need to do more quests overall, getting more rewards overall. Bu8t does it take them more days?

 

If it does, which i don't know the answer to yet, then imo there is a simple, easy way to fix it. Make one of the quest reward options for the people who didn't own the quest be reputation with the trader. Enough tier points to equal  a half of a completed quest. That way they forfeit the quest reward in exchange for a smaller amount of quest tier completion points.

 

Since each t1 quest is worth 1 point, they would be offered a reward choice of "No payment necessary. I'm happy to help. (+trader reputation)" This would give them a half of a  point of tier completion points. So for completing a t5 quest (worth 5 points), the non quest starters would receive 2 1/2 points if they choose trader rep, while the quest owner would get the full 5 points AND get t o choose a reward.

 

This would allow your builder, who doesn't like to quest, to wait until a team member is on t5's and join quests for those. By getting 2 1/2 points per quest, he could speed through the earlier quest tiers, finishing t1's in 4 quests instead of 10. It would decrease the amount of total quests needed by a group of 8 from 80 down to 17 or 18 if my math is right. (2 quests for each person would be 16 quests and would get each person to 9 points ((2*1+0.5*14))

 

If that is still too fast for multiplayer, the amount of points could be adjusted to 1/3 or 1/4 or whatever.

 

To me, this would be the more balanced way to adjust it if needed, rather than going back to the a21 way. Trader rep would be one choice amongst 5, requiring you to give up the crafting magazine bundle or glue or w/e to get it and by giving some but not full quest credit there is some consideration of how much easier it is overall to get all things done in a group.

[HeLLKnight]

On 6/25/2024 at 7:50 AM, q123 said:

For those which have a lower framerate in the forest biome compared to A21 - check the new "shadow quality" setting.

 

Reducing quality from High to Medium results (for me) in additional 30+ FPS in the forest.

On the other hand, "shadow distance" is nearly at no cost atm... i'm running it ultra+ for now 😁

 

Did my own quick performance/optimization testing in 1.0 b309:

 

4k resolution, I7 13700k, RTX3080. 1.0exp changed itself to ULTRA preset in the first run, fps disaster! I think much people are arguing because this automatic change.

 

So I change to HIGH preset, gives me 55-58 fps in areas with no zombies. Not good enough. I improve the preset by changing:

- Antialiasing from Temporal to FSR medium: from 55-58 to 76-78... awesome! but FSR Ultra is performing less than Temporal aliasing. FSR Ultra shouldn't be 2954x1662 pixels? or is native + FSR AA so we are looking at the cost of FSR itself?
- Sharpness slider doesn't work with FSR, only with temporal AA. Sharpness is a MUST in FSR, as is VERY blurry by default. Had to use Reshade to add it. Now its awesome!
- Texture filtering from medium to ultra, <1 fps cost worth it 
- Shadows distance from high to ultra, <1 fps cost worth it
- Shadows quality from high to medium, 76-78 to 85 fps but not very noticeable loss in quality, so very worth it IMO. The new worst offender in fps?
- SSAO: New 1.0 can eat 10-11 fps in interiors, but looks awesome, absolutely worth it to keep ON. OFF is very ugly. Could be possible to add extra "medium" quality SSAO?
- SS Reflections eat much less FPS than in alpha 21, around 5 fps from medium to low, so I keep it on medium

 

Now playing with at around 85 fps and very happy. 

Now lets try CPU performance: added 100 zombies in debug mode, down to 45-50 fps. 

Added this to /7DaystoDie_Data/boot.config:
gfx-enable-gfx-jobs=1
gfx-enable-native-gfx-jobs=1

 

And now 100 zombies only downs to 60-65fps. Not stable enough to enable the oldest Unity performance trick by default?

 

I also recommend this mod updated for 1.0exp because shadow improvements:
https://www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/3495?tab=files

 

EDIT: for some reason, looking closely to a light source in 1.0 like a wall light or a working forge can eat up to 15 fps. Want to try out again when the mod "Torch" in nexusmods gets updated for 1.0.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 12:52 PM by HeLLKnight (see edit history)

[User]

I think the first horde night was a little bit too difficult? It wasn't impossible, and I managed to survive since I set up the poi I was holding out in, and had supplies, but the zombie spawning never stopped. I'm on default settings (other than using nomad difficulty), and it felt like it would have been better to just wait on the roof instead of fight the horde like I did, since I never seemed to do anything to their numbers despite killing many. I was using a bow, and it'd be so nice if at some point we get an auto arrow pickup. Most of the arrows I used in the horde despawned from what I can tell, (they'd go into the dropped item bag, but by morning, all of the arrows would be gone) it'd be nice if more of them didn't despawn.

 

It also feels like the markup on some trader items is a bit too much. At the stage I'm at, I find quality 1 armor pretty frequently in tier 1-2 pois, but its 3000 dukes at the trader. Given the super low stat bonuses for low quality, this is far too much in my opinion.

Edited Thursday at 11:19 AM by User (see edit history)

[ComPage]

5 hours ago, Roland said:

Our short-term solution has been to change the value to 5 quests per tier in the xml

Please name the xml file and value.

[Arez]

I don't know if anyone has brought this up but I can see enemies through walls, cars, or anything they're standing in front of. 

 

It kinda looks like heat distortion, in the shape of their bodies (zombies and animals), on the surface of what they're standing behind.

Edited Thursday at 11:38 AM by Arez (see edit history)

[meganoth]

10 hours ago, Riamus said:

 

The point I was showing is that multiplayer IS much slower than single player now.  To show that, I needed an example with a set number of quests per day.  If you prefer to do one quest per day, you'd get to tier 2 after 10 days in single player.  With 8 players all questing together on doing only one quest per day, it would take you 80 days for all to reach tier 2.  See?  Nothing to do with min/max.

 

While I agree that MP groups very probably will advance slower on the tier progression now, your example is simply broken because you don't take into account that MP players can do quests much faster than a single player. Because they are faster at going through a POI and because they can minimize travel time between quests, and they can share in the rest of the work load they have more time to quest as well.

 

Edited Thursday at 12:19 PM by meganoth (see edit history)

[Adam the Waster]

6 hours ago, Roland said:

family

 

[Adam the Waster]

7 hours ago, Roland said:

family

The fact that can be fixed with just XML files is kind of sad in my opinion

[BFT2020]

1 hour ago, ComPage said:

Please name the xml file and value.