Spears Are Overpowered

[edyonline]

I’m on day 3, slaughtering. My build is purely spear DPS, crafting tier 4s but that’s not why I’m overpowered. 
 

I nearly read all the spear books by day two. Looting all the mail boxes I see, and checked all the ones in Diersville. I just need one more and I’ll have all the perks. In two more levels I’ll have tier 5 spears.

 

Next I’m wondering if I should try get three points in strength for Sexual Tyrannosaurus. As I did some testing first and it makes a big difference. But looking at the sniper buffs from skill points in sniper, it looks over powered. You can shoot through multiple enemies, crazy.

 

Im using three spears. My main modded one I never throw. My main throwing one which I’m getting good at for hunting. And a third one just in case. In the beginning I was throwing one to start off, as it benefits from sneak damage. But now I’m strong enough to just rampage through quests.

 

If i skill up in sniper next, then I’ll be carrying two to three snipers for those oh sh!t moments. And hunting when I get more bullets.

 

Im running around at night quite comfortably. Killed two ferals on my first night. And night two I was in the desert killing heaps of ferals.

 

It has great knockback/down with the read books and buffs combined. The last book is the most important one too, with more throwing speed. The 30% buff is super noticeable when I’m missing the head, can two shot most enemies who’s heads don’t pop.

 

Am I the only one liking spears? I seen they are getting a big buff next patch. And every comment I’ve seen on their current state is usually negative. I think they’re fine, but I’m yet to see how they go on horde night.

Edited March 8, 2023 by edyonline (see edit history)

[Ramethzer0]

Good to hear you're enjoying them!

 

And to answer your question:  Without knowing what settings you play with. and only speaking for myself - spears have their own set of limitations and aren't quite on par with the other melee weapons by a long shot.   When difficulty, game stage, and horde nights start to ramp up, you're going to see more and more of those limitations.

 

 

 

 

[Urban Blackbear]

Yeah, at early game stages they're great. At later game stages they quickly fall behind weapons that have a power attack that doesn't require you to click on a spear stuck in a zombie that's moving around. Don't get me wrong, they're still my favorite melee weapon but even having two or three on your hotbar doesn't make up for the deficiencies. I'm looking forward to A21 to see how they've been balanced but right now most of the other weapons out perform spears.

[edyonline]

2 hours ago, Ramethzer0 said:

Good to hear you're enjoying them!

 

And to answer your question:  Without knowing what settings you play with. and only speaking for myself - spears have their own set of limitations and aren't quite on par with the other melee weapons by a long shot.   When difficulty, game stage, and horde nights start to ramp up, you're going to see more and more of those limitations.

 

 

 

 

I’m playing default. I usually play insane fists, but trying something new I’ll go default.

 

Im thinking the sniper buffs will make up for the spear. And explosives are huge AOE, best in game.

 

By endgame I’ll have duel 5 shot snipers, and stacks of explosives. I see this build being unstoppable.

If I do well on horde night then I’ll give it a go on insane.

[FA_Q2]

They have a place but I find that sledges, clubs or knives are all vastly superior to spears.  They really only allow me to save ammo/mats early game when I do not have unlimited bullets or arrows to use on high HP animals like bears.

[pApA^LeGBa]

I have tried all melee weapons for at least 50 hours each on survivalist difficulty. Spears aren´t any good compared to the others except the baton. I rather have a bone knife than an iron spear, the bleeding allows me to kill groups of Z´s faster than with a spear.  

 

Most OP melee is the club, especially if you use a knife to get bleeding on them before you use the club. That combo is really deadly.

 

The really high droprate of the spearbooks is a bit strange tbh. Once i got all of them on day 2 and i think there was no A20 playtrough were it took longer than 4 or 5 days to get them. Maybe they wanted to promote the spear with increasing the droprate of the books.

 

But i am eager to try the spear in A21 where the power attack isn´t throwing it anymore. With a bit of a buff for the damage that might be a game changer for the spear.

Edited March 9, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Riamus]

I think there are better options in terms of damage and survivability.  Even so, I prefer spears because I can usually kill things before they reach me without ammo.  But I wouldn't really say they are better than other options.

[theFlu]

Yeh, I tend to agree with the critical crowd here. On normal diff, the spears are fine, but anything above that and they start to be quite hit and miss. Puns potentially intended.

 

Will give them a proper go in A21, but I doubt they'll become a favorite outside maybe horde bases designed for them - potentially longer reach for a stand-still horde experience.

[Vaeliorin]

16 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

The really high droprate of the spearbooks is a bit strange tbh. Once i got all of them on day 2 and i think there was no A20 playtrough were it took longer than 4 or 5 days to get them. Maybe they wanted to promote the spear with increasing the droprate of the books.

Spear, Archery and Needle and Thread are all easily able to be completed in the first day or two if you focus on looting newspaper boxes/mailboxes.  I always felt this was done on purpose in order to get people to make more use of bows and spears, since everyone seems to just rush to firearms.

[Roland]

20 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

But i am eager to try the spear in A21 where the power attack isn´t throwing it anymore. With a bit of a buff for the damage that might be a game changer for the spear.

 

Bit of a buff to damage plus Sex Rex baked into it as well makes it a much better melee choice in A21 than in the past. Add in the new flurry of blows perk for the perception build that will increase your spearing speed and spears are really awesome.                                                                               

[warmer]

I thought for sure I read Spear damage is going down, and throwing is being removed. The reason being for balance

[FA_Q2]

21 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

I have tried all melee weapons for at least 50 hours each on survivalist difficulty. Spears aren´t any good compared to the others except the baton. I rather have a bone knife than an iron spear, the bleeding allows me to kill groups of Z´s faster than with a spear.  

 

Most OP melee is the club, especially if you use a knife to get bleeding on them before you use the club. That combo is really deadly.

 

The really high droprate of the spearbooks is a bit strange tbh. Once i got all of them on day 2 and i think there was no A20 playtrough were it took longer than 4 or 5 days to get them. Maybe they wanted to promote the spear with increasing the droprate of the books.

 

But i am eager to try the spear in A21 where the power attack isn´t throwing it anymore. With a bit of a buff for the damage that might be a game changer for the spear.

You think?

 

I fond sledges MUCH better, by a long shot to be honest.  Single zeds are flatly never a problem but the sledge with its AOE knockdown effect allows you some major crowd control.  You do not even need to hit the zeds, you can hit a wall as you run by and knock down zeds trying to follow.  The strength tree in general is way too powerful compared to the others, save int, because it has the best melee weapons combined with the tool perks IMHO.  

 

I think the drop rate of the spear, thread and arrow books were just a side effect of pooling them into a loot list that is literally everywhere.  Every single home and almost every major city street contains a box that contains, essentially, just those three options.  Of course, none of that matters.  The books have fundamentally changed now anyway so this likely played a role as well.  

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by FA_Q2 (see edit history)

[Roland]

1 hour ago, warmer said:

I thought for sure I read Spear damage is going down, and throwing is being removed. The reason being for balance

 

Spear damage was increased and throwing was changed to a thrust for the power attack. It will also be much much cheaper to decrease your stamina drain using the spear and increase your attack speed since you won't have to cross over into strength to buy Sex Rex and Flurry of Blows.

 

32 minutes ago, FA_Q2 said:

The books have fundamentally changed now anyway so this likely played a role as well.  

 

The books from the book sets are unchanged in A21. However, the loot tables are completely different so those boxes now have a huge variety of magazines competing for slots along with the books in the book sets. So they are a lot more diluted and I really doubt anyone will be completing them on Day 2 any longer.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Roland (see edit history)

[Old Crow]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

 

Spear damage was increased and throwing was changed to a thrust for the power attack. It will also be much much cheaper to decrease your stamina drain using the spear and increase your attack speed since you won't have to cross over into strength to buy Sex Rex and Flurry of Blows.

 

 

Strength and Agility, you mean. I'm really looking forward to giving spears a real go in A21, whenever it eventually comes out.

[BFT2020]

2 hours ago, Roland said:

The books from the book sets are unchanged in A21. However, the loot tables are completely different so those boxes now have a huge variety of magazines competing for slots along with the books in the book sets. So they are a lot more diluted and I really doubt anyone will be completing them on Day 2 any longer.

 

Yes, but we were told that paper loot was going down, so there is that negative.

 

I mean, how else are you going to keep your sanity at night on a character that never sleeps if you can't just build paper airplanes all night long?

[ElDudorino]

6 hours ago, FA_Q2 said:

I fond sledges MUCH better, by a long shot to be honest.  Single zeds are flatly never a problem but the sledge with its AOE knockdown effect allows you some major crowd control. 

 

Clubs are better, no contest. Faster, similar damage, and still have knockdown, stagger, and slight AoE. I've done sledge playthroughs and its AoE doesn't make up for its lack of speed against groups of zombies. The club both controls them more efficiently AND kills them faster, while also giving you infinite stamina. Plus the club has several really good mods that are exclusive to it while the sledge has none.

 

The sledge admittedly has more satisfying hits, and I hate the design of the steel club, but the club is just vastly more effective.

 

But anyway, my next playthrough will be on a21 and will be spears for sure. Unless a21 doesn't come out by like the end of summer, in which case I'll probably just start a new game of Darkness Falls (and maybe still do spears).

[Old Crow]

6 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

 

Yes, but we were told that paper loot was going down, so there is that negative.

 

I mean, how else are you going to keep your sanity at night on a character that never sleeps if you can't just build paper airplanes all night long?

 

We were also told there'd be less paper in book stores in A20, and that didn't seem to actually be the case.

2 hours ago, ElDudorino said:

 

Clubs are better, no contest. Faster, similar damage, and still have knockdown, stagger, and slight AoE. I've done sledge playthroughs and its AoE doesn't make up for its lack of speed against groups of zombies. The club both controls them more efficiently AND kills them faster, while also giving you infinite stamina. Plus the club has several really good mods that are exclusive to it while the sledge has none.

 

The sledge admittedly has more satisfying hits, and I hate the design of the steel club, but the club is just vastly more effective.

 

But anyway, my next playthrough will be on a21 and will be spears for sure. Unless a21 doesn't come out by like the end of summer, in which case I'll probably just start a new game of Darkness Falls (and maybe still do spears).

 

I hate that clubs have been the melee "golden child" for so long. I'm glad for and look forward to the melee weapon changes in A21.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Old Crow (see edit history)

[edyonline]

2 hours ago, ElDudorino said:

Clubs are better, no contest.

I think that’s debatable, considering I can clear the hospital on day one with the sledge. Then cleared the skyscraper day two.

 

Then fought the zombies on the street during horde night. Can’t do that with a club that only hits one target… although I haven’t played club since PlayStation.

 

Heh, come to think of it I’ve only played fists since PlayStation. Probably why I think all these long range weapons are overpowered lol. Fists are so overpowered, but you have to have light armour with good footwork.

 

Just did a horde night with spears. They did ok. It’s more of a support weapon for cleaning up after explosives, IMO. Found I was no scope sniping a lot, while waiting for my stamina to build up again. The range is nice, but it can only hit one zed at a time. Which is a pain with such a slow swing timer. 
 

And I think the DPS buff might be bugged? If a head pops, it doesn’t refresh the 30% damage bonus. Which is a major setback on horde night.

 

Running around at night and clearing POIs is fine. Really good actually. But horde night was a big let down. I think a constant run through tier 5s would be painful too, as the stam regen is very demanding.

 

Im upto day 10. I’ll try a hospital run before concluding my final opinion. I’m currently at,

 

5/5 Spears

4/5 Sniper

4/5 Explosives

1 point lockpicking

 

Now I’m going for Sex Rex. If it does well then I might give them one more go, aim for 3/5 spears then go Sex Rex 3/4. Works well on my test realm…

[edyonline]

My final thoughts. Id say spears are the best day time weapon. But I don’t play this game for the day time lol.

 

Casually cleared the hospital in under 15 minutes on day 10.
 

Spears are super efficient bird killers, and crawlers. I hate crawlers. 
 

Ran through some houses too. Spears are super efficient at clearing in general. The range just makes it so you don’t stop stabbing, you can’t miss. But throwing is slow and bugged. It’s faster to just stab em up.

 

Think I’ll wait for a21 before I play spears again. Super fun but feels clunky on horde night.

If it came with a shield power attack, Spartan style, now that would be epic. Right click would do a shove attack. Or if your looking at the zombies hands when it swings, the shield would block.
 

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by edyonline (see edit history)

[Urban Blackbear]

You can use the Weighted Head mod in spears to give them a pretty decent chance of knockdown and that combined with the armor penetration they get makes them a pretty good sweeping weapon for POIs and wandering hordes.

 

And I don't believe Flurry of Blows works with spears in A20. The Penetrator perk does however apply to spears.

[hiemfire]

6 hours ago, edyonline said:

I think that’s debatable, considering I can clear the hospital on day one with the sledge.

Stone sledge? If so, Iron and Steel are actually very different beasts. They hit harder but swing allot slower and eat up way more stamina per swing. The stone sledge, especially with the weighted head mod, is brutally efficient for straight str builds till you start having to fight rad zombies. Unless you do nothing but spam power attack, like allot of club jockeys I've seen do, then it is absolute crap.

[edyonline]

2 hours ago, hiemfire said:

Stone sledge? If so, Iron and Steel are actually very different beasts.

Exactly. The different nature makes them good for different things.

 

I carry a stone sledge for AOE power attacks. And carry the strongest version iron or steel for the big mommas.

 

The stones swing speed means you have more chances to proc the head pops and AOE CC abilities. Which means it has the highest kills per minute. Whereas the steely just has the biggest slam. But I find I’m vulnerable in mobs of 3+ because I wear cloth armour for the mobility/evasion.

I like to swing across two or three mobs  at a time with stony, can pop multiple heads in one go. 

By endgame I have enough buffs to use steely full time. I also have full steel armour so nothing really matters by then TBH.

Edited March 10, 2023 by edyonline (see edit history)

[Riamus]

17 hours ago, edyonline said:

Casually cleared the hospital in under 15 minutes on day 10.

That seems hard to believe. I'm not sure I can run through the entire hospital, hitting every room that has zombies in under 15 minutes even if there aren't zombies in there.  To kill everything in that time seems a bit much, not matter what you use for a weapon.  Admittedly, I haven't tried to run through it as fast as possible, so maybe it can be rushed through that quickly.  I don't care for speed runs.  Never thought they were any fun. 😀

 

As far as doing POI on day 1, if you know the POI, any POI can be done on day 1 regardless of the weapon choice.  Maybe you have to be a bit more careful, but none of them are all that hard over you know the POI.  Your first time in some POI might get you killed, but afterwards they really aren't that challenging unless you bump the difficulty up a ways.

 

On 3/9/2023 at 8:18 PM, BFT2020 said:

 

Yes, but we were told that paper loot was going down, so there is that negative.

 

I mean, how else are you going to keep your sanity at night on a character that never sleeps if you can't just build paper airplanes all night long?

Paper airplanes... The new zombie distraction. 😁

Edited March 11, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[edyonline]

2 hours ago, Riamus said:

That seems hard to believe. I'm not sure I can run through the entire hospital, hitting every room that has zombies in under 15 minutes

…

As far as doing POI on day 1, if you know the POI, any POI can be done on day 1 regardless of the weapon choice. 

It depends on your build and game stage. Still mostly regular zombies, but my build is purely DPS. Food buffs for more stamina, and coffees on the go makes it easy.

 

Ive tried day one tier 5s with fists. Usually takes two whole days, and that’s fighting at night time too. The skyscraper took me 3 days. I’m thinking of trying a day one spear run, I doubt it’ll do it in one day too though. Neither will clubs IMO, but I might have to test that too.

 

Sledge is in a class of its own, IMO. Just that most people wear heavy armour and use up all their stamina. My play style is more active and destructive. Basically a glass cannon. If I get stunned, it’s pretty much death if I don’t use pain killers in time, or that big 50% damage mitigation.

 

In fact I don’t see many people buffing up at all. As an ex-world of Warcraft min/maxer it’s a huge wasted opportunity IMO.

[edyonline]

Did a day one hospital full clear with spears. Spears are officially S tier in my book. Only found two skill books on the way. And I started on the other side of the map, so didn't enter until 1530.

 

Had to do the top two floors at night, easy with spear to manage distance. 

 

GG. 
 

I recorded the whole day. If anyones interested I can upload to YouTube.

Edited March 11, 2023 by edyonline (see edit history)