Screamer hordes are just annoying

[RipClaw]

All I wanted to do was farm some iron and had screamer after screamer after screamer. The screamers spawned 139 zombies according to the log.

Whoever balanced the heat system should take another look at it. It's ridiculous that I can't mine iron or lead for more than 2 minutes without a screamer showing up.

 

[Whorhay]

Not a complete solution, but If using the auger hold down the trigger, don't spam it as each activation is 1% heat. I've heard that crouching also reduces heat generation though I haven't tested that personally.

[theFlu]

Yeh, the balance is quite off; mining metals calls them in constantly, mining any other blocks practically doesn't.

 

When planning to mine for plenty of iron or lead, I'd suggest some suitable countermeasures, for example:

Junk Turrets for when near the surface yourself

Spikes (or auto turrets if willing to tinker)

Walkable path down to your level, with a killzone at the start of your actual mine (for large mines)

Dig down to bedrock, ignore the heat

 

The balance could use a little fixing, but even if it improves, the above will still be useful...

[RipClaw]

29 minutes ago, Whorhay said:

Not a complete solution, but If using the auger hold down the trigger, don't spam it as each activation is 1% heat. I've heard that crouching also reduces heat generation though I haven't tested that personally.

I hold the button down but it doesn't help much. Each hit on metal increases the heat by 0.10% and when the metal breaks it increases the heat by about 3%.

By the way, with rock the hits do not increase the heat at all and when it breaks the heat is increased only 0.5%.

 

Capp00 made a great video about this.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ3kW41h5yI

 

By the way, crouching does not help at all with the auger, unlike the pickaxe.
 

[8_Hussars]

May I make a suggestion?

Stop using a dedicated "iron mine".

Go to random above ground iron node; mine out the deposit while keeping an eye on the auger fuel counter to time when the first screamer appears.  Use this value as a timer to stop.

Relocate to another node in a different chunk with no heat,

 

Rinse, repeat, profit?   

Alternatively set up a screamer defence with a junk or auto turret.  Genosis had a good blade trap (?)setup in his last wasteland series.  Although I am leaning toward his more recent cage implimentation...  

Edited November 17, 2022 by 8_Hussars
Addition (see edit history)

[Crater Creator]

2 hours ago, RipClaw said:

I hold the button down but it doesn't help much. Each hit on metal increases the heat by 0.10% and when the metal breaks it increases the heat by about 3%.

By the way, with rock the hits do not increase the heat at all and when it breaks the heat is increased only 0.5%.

 

Capp00 made a great video about this.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ3kW41h5yI

 

By the way, crouching does not help at all with the auger, unlike the pickaxe.
 

Well that’s illuminating. It’s the inconsistencies that are most puzzling to me. Why should destroying coal, nitrate, or oil shale with an auger do nothing to heat, when the same action raises heat significantly with a hand tool?

 

So apparently unless gas is an issue (unlikely for a miner character), the takeaway is that once you start the auger, don’t stop mining until it goes ‘click.’ But I’m less interested in how to min/max the game than I am in making sure the heat mechanic makes sense.

 

The video doesn’t test crouching, but taking your word for it, that’s another inconsistency. It’s long struck me as a strange mechanic that the position of your legs affects how loud you are when swinging an axe. But whatever the logic is there, I don’t see why it shouldn’t apply equally to hand tools and power tools. In fact we already have a mechanic to allow players to make harder or softer hits. Regular attacks versus power attacks could give the player that tradeoff between mining quietly or mining quickly.

[theFlu]

46 minutes ago, Crater Creator said:

It’s long struck me as a strange mechanic that the position of your legs affects how loud you are when swinging an axe.

While the crouch animation doesn't seem to make sense for everything, I kinda consider the mechanic just to be telling your character to "be quiet, hide", to which it responds by lowering the profile.. it's not like the crouch has a proper function other than hiding. Whatever is getting done under the order to hide is done "more quietly".

 

Then again, I'm not convinced that quiet mining should be a thing, steel on stone is going to make a lot of noise if you're breaking the stone. Power vs normal attack makes some difference between "I want to break this one thing now" vs "I'm here to take everything home", but for the most part, power swings just break the flow of mining...

[warmer]

Have you ever heard a rock breaking auger/jackhammer? You can hear it from a 1/4 mile away, and if you aren't wearing hearing protection while using it, you'll be deaf in an hour.

So ya, this is kind of expected...

[RipClaw]

2 hours ago, warmer said:

Have you ever heard a rock breaking auger/jackhammer? You can hear it from a 1/4 mile away, and if you aren't wearing hearing protection while using it, you'll be deaf in an hour.

So ya, this is kind of expected...

On the surface yes, but when you are several meters below the surface nobody on the surface will hear anything because the rock and the ground swallows all sound.

 

But realism aside, you can mine coal, nitrate or oil shale all day and there's not a screamer in sight. That's because the heat generated in the game is much less with rock than with metal.
 

Edited November 18, 2022 by RipClaw (see edit history)

[Diragor]

She always makes noises when being near you. If you hear her before seeing her, which is mostly the case, then just try to kill her before she can scream it's that simple, barely ever have any screams

[RipClaw]

11 minutes ago, Diragor said:

She always makes noises when being near you. If you hear her before seeing her, which is mostly the case, then just try to kill her before she can scream it's that simple, barely ever have any screams

I am underground. In fact, she shouldn't see me at all before she climbs down the ladder into the mine. However, that does not work as desired.
Also, you don't always hear a scream but still the screamer horde spawns. In general, the screamer seems to be a bit buggy.

 

The main problem is that the heat rises too fast when you mine metal. About every 30 metal blocks the heat in a chunk reaches 100% and a screamer spawns. On the other hand, when mining coal, nitrate or oil shale, it takes about 200 blocks to reach 100% heat. There is also a difference in how long the heat lasts. For metal it lasts much longer than for rock. You can mine coal, nitrate or oil shale all day and never have a screamer show up.

 

 

[Callum123456789]

i can understand that screamers coming every 2 minutes when mining metal but i believe thats the way it is so you can't just sit nice and tucked in mining for hours without any interruption might be a bug but thats the way i see it.

[RipClaw]

8 minutes ago, Callum123456789 said:

i can understand that screamers coming every 2 minutes when mining metal but i believe thats the way it is so you can't just sit nice and tucked in mining for hours without any interruption might be a bug but thats the way i see it.

You do know that there is a big difference between 2 minutes and several hours? A Rock Buster Candy lasts 10 minutes. So why not a Screamer only every 10-15 minutes ?

 

[Melange]

3 hours ago, RipClaw said:

You do know that there is a big difference between 2 minutes and several hours? A Rock Buster Candy lasts 10 minutes. So why not a Screamer only every 10-15 minutes ?

 

I am so used to this screamer annoyance that its become second nature to me. Eat the Rock Buster candy, knowing full well that I am not going to get 10 minutes of uninterrupted iron mining while I swing my pickaxe. 

 

Usually I just want to get my haul of ore and get back to base. I'm not a fan of elaborate mine defenses, so I just have a single opening to the surface with a ladder going down to the pit. Screamer makes her announcement - stop mining - go to base of ladder - await her trying to come down - shoot her butt - go back to mining. If she's managed to call others, or some curious wandering zombies come upon the entrance (footsteps giving them away), I do the same: wait to shoot them on their way down. But I had to waste a part of my 10 minute candy bonus.

 

Yes. Please rework this so that we can mine in relative peace for at minimum 10 minutes.

 

Edited November 18, 2022 by Melange (see edit history)

[Slaasher]

Imagine there being a challenge to overcome......

Serosly though, this can be overcome with a little thought.

I always have dedicated mines.

[Melange]

and exploding mines will bring more zeds to the mine (pun) and won't in the short term solve the screamer issue.

 

but hey, no thought. mine the iron. shoot the zeds. go home. don't waste money on the Rock Breakers.

 

Clever. But the only cigar you'll get is from the trader.

11 minutes ago, Slaasher said:

Imagine there being a challenge to overcome......

Serosly though, this can be overcome with a little thought.

I always have dedicated mines.

 Oh wait. Dedicated mines? As in boom or ore? Maybe I got confused.

 

Dedicated, as in a go to spot. Will eventually peter out.

 

I have multiples. Different chunks. Getting too hot here and I need more? Then relocate the digging.

 

But the screamers will come. And no matter what, I lose the minutes of the Rock Buster perk. That's what is at issue here. We want more time before she shows up.

Edited November 18, 2022 by Melange (see edit history)

[Pernicious]

How are you guys reading the Heat levels? Are you just estimating from when you are getting screamers? 

 

I've not really had this issue. If I were guessing, I'd say in an hour of mining using an auger, I was getting maybe 3 screamers? With a pickaxe, it wasn't guaranteed. 

 

In fact, there were times where I had to quickly catch up some levels to friends, nd my favourite tactic was to mine with Nerd Glasses, Rock busters, miner's coffee (fast xp while mining) and then when the screamer arrived, punch her a couple times until she screamed, and kite the pack around making sure there were never more than 3 or 4 screamers at once. Can easily rack up a few hundred kills in 20 minutes that way. 

[RipClaw]

5 minutes ago, Pernicious said:

How are you guys reading the Heat levels? Are you just estimating from when you are getting screamers? 

The heat levels can be displayed. Switch to debug mode with dm and press F8 twice. Then the heat is displayed.

 

5 minutes ago, Pernicious said:

I've not really had this issue. If I were guessing, I'd say in an hour of mining using an auger, I was getting maybe 3 screamers? With a pickaxe, it wasn't guaranteed. 

It depends on the material you mine. Iron and lead increase heat faster than coal, nitrate and oil shale. Also, you can be lucky and the mine is in two or three different chunks. Then one chunk can "cool down" while you work in the other one.
 

5 minutes ago, Pernicious said:

In fact, there were times where I had to quickly catch up some levels to friends, nd my favourite tactic was to mine with Nerd Glasses, Rock busters, miner's coffee (fast xp while mining) and then when the screamer arrived, punch her a couple times until she screamed, and kite the pack around making sure there were never more than 3 or 4 screamers at once. Can easily rack up a few hundred kills in 20 minutes that way. 

It's like everything in life. When it is the right time, it is something positive. But if it's the wrong time, then it's something negative. If you just want to mine resources in peace, then you do not want a screamer horde.

[Vaeliorin]

I've gotten used to getting 5-6 screamers in a night of mining.  They never get to scream (usually) but it's still super annoying.  I only mine with hand tools, though (I hate the auger...too easy to accidentally hit something I don't want to, and you can't repair ore blocks.)

 

I'd set up defenses, but I usually clean out a mine in 2-3 days, so I'd have to be constantly moving them, which is just way too much hassle.

 

Fortunately they seem to be programmed to jump off stairs, so they ragdoll when they hit the bottom of the mine and I can kill them before they stand back up.

[Melange]

4 hours ago, Pernicious said:

How are you guys reading the Heat levels? Are you just estimating from when you are getting screamers? 

Never knew about the ability to see the actual heat value until RipClaw mentioned it in the above post. Thanks for that. I would go on a qualitative scale - screamer shows up and its kinda down hill from there.

[Pernicious]

5 hours ago, RipClaw said:

The heat levels can be displayed. Switch to debug mode with dm and press F8 twice. Then the heat is displayed.

Thanks for that. 

 

Yeah, I don't  mind distractions so much as most. I know one of my friends used to do it to zen. Just put on a movie or some tunes and just mine for an hour. He hated the interruptions, but I reckon half of that was because then he'd have to focus on the game rather than the movie.

 

I tend to be more single focus. If I am gaming, I am gaming. So for mining, I am there to mine. A break in the monotony is good, but being unable to mine is bad. 3-4 times an hour is perfect. A little more would still be okay. More than once every 5 mins would be annoying.

 

[RipClaw]

A small update on the matter. I have now modded the heat values of metal and made them identical to those of rock.

Normally I leave everything vanilla as far as possible but the screamer hordes were just too annoying to leave it as it is.

 

I still need to check why the screamers now seem to have x-ray vision since they spawn a horde even when I am on bedrock and they are not supposed to have line of sight. It could be that it is connected to the Feral Sense setting.

 

[Diragor]

Is there any difference in Biomes with heatmap/screamer spawn.
I am currently on a full wasteland map and only once had 2 screamers right after my horde night. never before and never after. Not even Mining for an hour spawned any of them. I play full vanilla and my CS is 44

[RipClaw]

52 minutes ago, Diragor said:

Is there any difference in Biomes with heatmap/screamer spawn.
I am currently on a full wasteland map and only once had 2 screamers right after my horde night. never before and never after. Not even Mining for an hour spawned any of them. I play full vanilla and my CS is 44

No this is the same for all biomes. But it makes a difference what you mine. Coal, nitrate or oil shale only increase the heat by 0.5% when a block breaks and this heat only lasts for 60 seconds.

 

Iron and lead, on the other hand, increase the heat by 0.10% per hit, and when the block breaks, another 2.84% is added on top. This heat lasts for 90 seconds.

 

If you use an iron pickaxe or steel pickaxe, for example, the frequency of hits is relatively low. If, on the other hand, you have an auger, then the impact frequency is significantly higher. The auger itself raises the heat 1% every time you press the button and if you have all the "The Art of Mining" books, you can sometimes destroy blocks with a single hit. All this in combination can quickly raise the heat above 100% when you mine iron or lead.

 

[Diragor]

Makes sence. Because I would love to have some screamers. Need that exp