Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Old Crow]

19 minutes ago, Adam the Waster said:

escort........i shiver

but good point with the rest, but then people will complain that all the quest are "go here, do that, come back"
 

That's what all quests in just about every game are. Go here, do the thing, return for reward.

[Riamus]

16 minutes ago, Adam the Waster said:

escort........i shiver

but good point with the rest, but then people will complain that all the quest are "go here, do that, come back"
 

Yeah, that's the problem with finding good quest types to add.  I know I would ignore any quest that had me running around to traders.  The only reason I do the special quest is because it isn't part of the normal quest queue and so can be held until I actually want to go to that trader.  And I hate escort quests.  It would be one thing if they moved at the speed I do (on a vehicle) and not walking slowly like they do in almost every such quest with only a few exceptions where they purposely run into trouble.  But they aren't going to be driving if we escort them, so it isn't worth my time.  I'm fine with a defend quest (not a defend at horde level like one person suggested, but just a normal defense quest), but there isn't too much to such a quest to make it interesting.  I'd much rather see quests that are designed to improve the town or trader compound, but we aren't going to ever see those.  If the trader compound started out as not much more than a shack or something and you could do quests to bring resources that would then let it slowly become what we are getting in A21, that would be amazing.  If you could do something to in some way fix up the town as well, that would also be great (not sure what, though).

 

In the end, I doubt any quest they add that isn't similar to a clear/fetch type is probably not something I'll pay much attention to.  I do the night ones only rarely because I can't turn them in until morning or do them when I want so they aren't really much value to me.  And the buried treasure quests I'll do because I can find the treasure in holes I dug at later times as I drive around and loot them again.  If those treasure chests are destroyed after looting them like the treasure map chests are with the change to containers in A21 being destroyed then I'll probably never do buried treasure again except if there isn't anything else I can do.

[bdubyah]

1 hour ago, Old Crow said:

 

They could have waited. Infestation isn't new. It's literally just a slightly harder Clear.

Do you ever not complain constantly? You've stated several times now your opinion of the new quest type. We get it, you aren't a fan. 

 

And you really want A21 to be delayed over a few quests? 

[Adam the Waster]

1 hour ago, Old Crow said:

That's what all quests in just about every game are. Go here, do the thing, return for reward.

very true but games fluff it up by adding story, Fallout is a great example 


Unless 7DTD is going to do a dialogue system like Sea of Thieves (they do it too a point, but i wouldn't mind if they explained it)


 

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Old Crow said:

 

They could have waited. Infestation isn't new. It's literally just a slightly harder Clear.

 

Why exactly, if they finished it? What would waiting accomplish? I don't understand this sentiment at all and I've heard it before now. It's similar to the sentiment of "if TFP doesn't implement something exactly the way I like, then they should just remove it entirely from the game."  

 

As for new or not new-- It is a variation on an existing quest type and a different choice to pick. If the trader were to offer you a clear and an infestation and they were both equal distance away, which would you pick and why? If you're willing to just flip a coin every time and never make a reasoned choice then I guess you're right that it isn't new. But if you think there could be a reason to pick one over the other then they can't be called the same.

 

The lower tiers are slightly harder but I wouldn't call the higher tiers just slightly harder.

 

I agree that they aren't the most exciting quest type they could have added but at least they are adding new types and I know one that didn't get done in time for A21 is completely different so they are in the process of diversifying the quest types.

 

But, come on, what's wrong with getting infestation now rather than holding off on it? What's the logic for that?

[DocRussel]

Maybe I missed it, but since we have fetch & clear, will we get fetch & infestation quests?  Or are infestation quests going to be clear only?

[Old Crow]

1 hour ago, bdubyah said:

Do you ever not complain constantly? You've stated several times now your opinion of the new quest type. We get it, you aren't a fan. 

 

And you really want A21 to be delayed over a few quests? 

 

Show me where I asked A21 to get delayed over a few quests or where I said I wasn't a fan? A fan would want a game they enjoy to be better if it can be. Isn't that why you mod?

43 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

Why exactly, if they finished it? What would waiting accomplish? I don't understand this sentiment at all and I've heard it before now. It's similar to the sentiment of "if TFP doesn't implement something exactly the way I like, then they should just remove it entirely from the game."  

 

As for new or not new-- It is a variation on an existing quest type and a different choice to pick. If the trader were to offer you a clear and an infestation and they were both equal distance away, which would you pick and why? If you're willing to just flip a coin every time and never make a reasoned choice then I guess you're right that it isn't new. But if you think there could be a reason to pick one over the other then they can't be called the same.

 

The lower tiers are slightly harder but I wouldn't call the higher tiers just slightly harder.

 

I agree that they aren't the most exciting quest type they could have added but at least they are adding new types and I know one that didn't get done in time for A21 is completely different so they are in the process of diversifying the quest types.

 

But, come on, what's wrong with getting infestation now rather than holding off on it? What's the logic for that?

 

I guess my question is "why make Infestation at all?" They said new quest types in A21 - Infestation isn't "new". Yes, I sound like a broken record, I get it. They've also said other new features for A21, but some of those got pushed back to later Alphas because they weren't ready (bandits for example). Nothing wrong with pushing a feature back if it's not ready - that's the nature of game development. And that's okay.

[Old Crow]

24 minutes ago, DocRussel said:

Maybe I missed it, but since we have fetch & clear, will we get fetch & infestation quests?  Or are infestation quests going to be clear only?

 

I don't think they said anything about that, but I wouldn't be surprised if Infetchstation got added as a quest type.

[bdubyah]

36 minutes ago, Old Crow said:

Show me where I asked A21 to get delayed over a few quests

You literally said "They could have waited." That sounds to me like you'd rather A21 get delayed till they can add more "new" quests that are good enough for you, no?

 

38 minutes ago, Old Crow said:

A fan would want a game they enjoy to be better if it can be. Isn't that why you mod?

Not at the expense of an update taking even longer than it already has. Why I mod has nothing to do with how TFP make their game. I mod because it is a fun hobby, and to add a new flavor to the game.

 

I would love if every cool feature ever mentioned here got added to the game. But I'm also a realist and understand that 99% of it won't ever make it into vanilla. As I said before, new content is likely gonna be slimming down with each new release, save for bandits, character models, and any potential story stuff if they decide to do that before Gold. I've looked at their current roadmap, as well as the original KS goals. There isn't much "new" left. They are surely ready to be done with this game so they can focus on something new. So I look at it from the perspective of "Infestation is something they didn't have to do, but did." So I am happy for any additions to the game, whether they are "new" enough for you or not.

[Old Crow]

14 minutes ago, bdubyah said:

You literally said "They could have waited." That sounds to me like you'd rather A21 get delayed till they can add more "new" quests that are good enough for you, no?

 

 

 

They could have waited ON THE QUESTS. Not A21 itself. But nice try!

[bdubyah]

19 minutes ago, Old Crow said:

 

They could have waited ON THE QUESTS. Not A21 itself. But nice try!

So because the others aren't ready, don't add any? Dude...

[Laz Man]

4 hours ago, Old Crow said:

 

They could have waited. Infestation isn't new. It's literally just a slightly harder Clear.

 

Many systems get iterated on over several Alphas, the quest system is not excluded.  For example, restore power quests are still evolving.  Infestation quests will most likely see improvements after the first iteration gets played by the general public as well.

 

Some may question why release A21 without bandits?  Because the team still needs feedback on all of the other additions/changes sooner than later.

 

Edit: Also, infestation sounds like a trivial change but there is actually alot of new coding changes under the hood that allows level design to really make new experiences we were not able to in A20.  Can't wait for you guys to try it out...😁

Edited April 28, 2023 by Laz Man (see edit history)

[Roland]

2 hours ago, Old Crow said:

I guess my question is "why make Infestation at all?" They said new quest types in A21 - Infestation isn't "new". Yes, I sound like a broken record, I get it.

 

 Sure, it is very similar to a clear quest but it is also just the first implementation of it. It could very well develop into more than it currently is. When features are first added to the game they are hardly ever in their finalized form. They are a work in progress and that progress is achieved often through player feedback after players have played it. So why make it? Why, so we can play it and respond and hopefully that will result in more differentiation.

 

2 hours ago, Old Crow said:

They've also said other new features for A21, but some of those got pushed back to later Alphas because they weren't ready (bandits for example). Nothing wrong with pushing a feature back if it's not ready - that's the nature of game development. And that's okay.

 

The difference is that the infestation quest is done to the point where it is playable and can be tested by the populace while those other features were not. Why push back the infestation quest if it is ready to be played? TFP is definitely not shy about pushing back features if they think they aren't ready so if they are pushing out infestation quests in A21 then they must feel they are ready to be tried.

 

I get where you are coming from. Compared to a defense or a convoy or a delivery quest this infestation quest seems underwhelming because it is so similar to existing quests and you were hoping for one of those other types that are clearly different than what we already have. That's a fair reaction, I think. But that doesn't mean they should just cancel or postpone the infestation quest. They are fun. I always choose them when they are available cuz...you know....they're new.

 

Before he got hired by TFP @Laz Man was very much into creating new quest types as mods and even chaining quests together to be a series of connected quests. Of course, he was also a god at POI design even before that so it's no small wonder they have him on the level design team right now. But I really hope that he gets involved with quest design officially at some point. He had some great ideas he was trying out back in the day...

Edited April 28, 2023 by Roland (see edit history)

[Riamus]

Is it too soon to ask if there are any changes to either how parts work or how gateway tiles work (not the new country tile gateways)?  Will they remain the same as they currently are or are there any changes?  Any chance we'll be able to have multiple gateway tiles instead of only one in A21?

[Skullfracture]

In A17 or 18 there was a mod that I really liked that added a type of quest.

 

You'd get a quest to go to a PoI and (either activate some kind of transmitter or the rally marker I don't recall), which would spawn waves of hard enemies to rush you (while also respawning the PoI and it's zombies). Leave the PoI bounds, fail. Die, you fail. Wipe em out and survive, turn it in. 3. Profit.

 

To make up for the increased spawns (which were harder than normal zeds) I think they may have had a higher than normal loot bag drop; random crap mostly, but something.

 

Was a lot of fun. Something like that could be neat to have officially. Was sad when the mod was abandoned.

[Old Crow]

1 hour ago, bdubyah said:

So because the others aren't ready, don't add any? Dude...

 

By your argument, they could have added some bandits and saved the rest for A22. Don't get @%$#y just because someone else has a different opinion than you.

1 hour ago, Laz Man said:

 

Many systems get iterated on over several Alphas, the quest system is not excluded.  For example, restore power quests are still evolving.  Infestation quests will most likely see improvements after the first iteration gets played by the general public as well.

 

Some may question why release A21 without bandits?  Because the team still needs feedback on all of the other additions/changes sooner than later.

 

Edit: Also, infestation sounds like a trivial change but there is actually alot of new coding changes under the hood that allows level design to really make new experiences we were not able to in A20.  Can't wait for you guys to try it out...😁

 

I'm curious to see what happens with the restore power quests. I sadly often skip them because I don't feel like waiting until a somewhat narrow window at night to start them (mostly because I miss the window due to not paying attention).

1 hour ago, Roland said:

 

 Sure, it is very similar to a clear quest but it is also just the first implementation of it. It could very well develop into more than it currently is. When features are first added to the game they are hardly ever in their finalized form. They are a work in progress and that progress is achieved often through player feedback after players have played it. So why make it? Why, so we can play it and respond and hopefully that will result in more differentiation.

 

 

The difference is that the infestation quest is done to the point where it is playable and can be tested by the populace while those other features were not. Why push back the infestation quest if it is ready to be played? TFP is definitely not shy about pushing back features if they think they aren't ready so if they are pushing out infestation quests in A21 then they must feel they are ready to be tried.

 

I get where you are coming from. Compared to a defense or a convoy or a delivery quest this infestation quest seems underwhelming because it is so similar to existing quests and you were hoping for one of those other types that are clearly different than what we already have. That's a fair reaction, I think. But that doesn't mean they should just cancel or postpone the infestation quest. They are fun. I always choose them when they are available cuz...you know....they're new.

 

Before he got hired by TFP @Laz Man was very much into creating new quest types as mods and even chaining quests together to be a series of connected quests. Of course, he was also a god at POI design even before that so it's no small wonder they have him on the level design team right now. But I really hope that he gets involved with quest design officially at some point. He had some great ideas he was trying out back in the day...

 

I guess when I first heard about new quest types... I was expecting NEW quest types. I'm hoping that Infestation evolves into something beyond just killing harder zombies. I'm not sure at the moment what could be added to them later though.

[Jost Amman]

5 hours ago, Old Crow said:

They could have waited. Infestation isn't new. It's literally just a slightly harder Clear.

You could say the same with games like State of Decay, when you have to clear out infestations... so what?

[Zombiepoptard]

Having more objectives would be great for the bigger quests. Infestation seems like more of a difficulty increase but if you could have objectives scattered all over the poi it would make for a eventful play through of juggling zombies and quest objective. I am excited for infestation because harder quests justify doing them with friends.

[Diragor]

Well I am very happy about the investation quests. it sounds so awesome that the POI is filled with more zombies than normally. I always wanted something like this. I'm thankful for this Quest type and wll probably grind the hell out of them

Based on the logic that they are too similar, they should remove every House POI and only leave one of them because they are all Houses and that's a similarity. Or remove all but one zombie because they are similar. what a logic.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Roland
removed insult (see edit history)

[lazdeuce]

Personally I'm really looking forward to the new infestation quest type.  Mid to late game I'm mostly questing specifically to kill zombies rather than get the end loot.  It's good mindless fun.

 

For variety, I think some kind of parkour quest type might be nice for those who want a different kind of challenge.  Maybe even combine it with a restore power quest.  Run the course and start the generator type of thing with some weird lighting along the way to keep it interesting.  Not really my thing but I know some who would like it.

 

[Zombiepoptard]

47 minutes ago, Old Crow said:

I'm curious to see what happens with the restore power quests. I sadly often skip them because I don't feel like waiting until a somewhat narrow window at night to start them (mostly because I miss the window due to not paying attention).

 

agreed.

 

I would play a bunch if them if it weren't only at night. You could have at night time only quests but having the whole quest type be night time only is unnecessary. 

[Maxley]

@Roland has the wandering sleepers idea been scrapped? I was excited to see how zombies wandering around poi’s would provide a more unpredictable challenge. 

[Zombiepoptard]

I see Infestation as a quest type that can be iterated upon and be made much bigger than more zombies in future updates to provide an overall combination of objectives. We've had quest types that would be named after their objectives because they only had one or two implemented but what if we had 4 or 5. What if there was a tier 4 and 5 raid quest type that would be like a miniature L4D run. 

[Philipp]

What do you think of this idea: Cars have a certain percentage chance of triggering the car alarm when searched or dismantled, causing zombies to appear.  Don't know if it's hard to program, but is it just "when mining or searching, then as an example = 6% chance that XY sound will be played, which can attract zombies. Sure, the cars are older, and not everything would  be "logical" but it's a game and would (IMO) bring immersion into play with a small change probably programmed in a day.

 

 

[bdubyah]

1 hour ago, Old Crow said:

By your argument, they could have added some bandits and saved the rest for A22. Don't get @%$#y just because someone else has a different opinion than you.

Um, no? They showed a few bandit models, but that doesn't mean their animations, AI, or other things like loot have been finalized or is even in a good enough state to be released. But nice try!