burried supplies revenue test

[Liesel Weppen]

Recently there was a lot of discussion of the food issue, especially in early game. Most people recommended "do burried supplies quests". I'd also go with this.

Until the question came up: You have to walk to the location, you have to dig, do you even loot more food value then you burn?

 

That made me think about it. I'd say it did, but i never meassured how much, or in worse cases even it does not?

So i made a little test. The rules were:

 

• complete the starter quest
• no clothes, beside the plant fiber shirt and the plant fiber pants you got by the starter quest
• just a lvl1 stone shovel and a lvl1 club
• distance to quest used given by the trader
• no other looting done during on the quest
• didn't kill any zombies on the way to the quest, i outran them
• i didn't kill the Zs that spawn when you open the chest
• used creative menu to start every quest at 9 o'clock for time measurement
• every quest was started with (almost) full food and a fully repaired shovel
• i only killed Zs if they disturbed me while diggin for the supplies
• no perk points spent, not even that one from the starter quest, to keep the results comparable
• no buffs used, no coffee, no mega crush, no tea, nothing
• i used debug mode to reset the trader quests if there was no burried supplies available for testing purposes

 

Done on pregen1 and i started at the trader at O154, N378. I did 10 burried supplies, for the first 3 i had the newbie buff active. I didn't know it increases stamina recovery and decreased food usage... but it does.

 

I personally run to the quest point, so food usage could be less if just walking but increasing mission time.

The clay amount should give an idea about how much i had to dig.

 

Condensed outcome:

Distance	Food usage	Time (ingame hours)	Clay	food loot	food balance
298,6	12	4	736	50	+38
448,5	14	3	562	70	+56
387	15	3,5	752	30	+15
292,2	9	1,5	276	30	+21
264,8	19	3,5	572	32	+13
255,1	19	3,5	676	89	+70
486,5	17	3	427	20	+3
456,4	28	4,5	901	94	+66
451,3	18	3	569	25	+7
425,3	23	3,5	608	79	+56

 

So my conclusion:

Burried supplies is absoluty worth it... in early game. Especially while the newbie buff is active. It helps a lot. Even if you have a bad run, you'll get around a 0 sum on food, but you get the quest reward + the extra drop from the chest (receipes, elexirs, mega crush ...).

After those 10 missions, i was level 4 and had 7 points to spend, that already could have been used to speed up digging and reward. Like sex rex, miner 69er, mother lode, cardio, treasure hunter or lucky looter or in this case even the daring adventurer.

Not even mentioned, that i ran accross many bird nests i did not loot, that would have given some eggs as additional food and feathers for arrows. On my way to the missions i've seen 2 deers and 3 boards, so even potentiall further food. The eight mission also contained the bacon & eggs receipe. And i could have used coffee or tea to enhance stamina regeneration while running and digging.

I made 5600 dukes, that could have been spent for even more food... which is not needed, because the loot from the supplies totaly feed me anyway.... or a better shovel. And a full stack of clay (6000), what you will need later anyway.

I also got more water from the loot, that i needed to drink.

 

I attached an openoffice sheet that shows details on what i looted, what the quest rewards have been and some comments on each mission.

7d2d burried supplies.ods

 

BTW: Please stop telling me that you need to eat after 5min of mining when started fully. That was with 60min days, so 1 ingame hour is 2,5min. Accordingly every mission took me 5 to 20 minutes and i didn't need to eat anything. Even the worst run only took my food down to ~75%. WITHOUT ANY PERKS!

Either this is a bug, or time is running faster for you....

[Ti2xGr]

6 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

Condensed outcome:

Distance	Food usage	Time (ingame hours)	Clay	food loot	food balance
298,6	12	4	736	50	+38
448,5	14	3	562	70	+56
387	15	3,5	752	30	+15
292,2	9	1,5	276	30	+21
264,8	19	3,5	572	32	+13
255,1	19	3,5	676	89	+70
486,5	17	3	427	20	+3
456,4	28	4,5	901	94	+66
451,3	18	3	569	25	+7
425,3	23	3,5	608	79	+56

 

So my conclusion:

Burried supplies is absoluty worth it... in early game. Especially while the newbie buff is active. It helps a lot. Even if you have a bad run, you'll get around a 0 sum on food, but you get the quest reward + the extra drop from the chest (receipes, elexirs, mega crush ...).

After those 10 missions, i was level 4 and had 7 points to spend, that already could have been used to speed up digging and reward. Like sex rex, miner 69er, mother lode, cardio, treasure hunter or lucky looter or in this case even the daring adventurer.

Not even mentioned, that i ran accross many bird nests i did not loot, that would have given some eggs as additional food and feathers for arrows. On my way to the missions i've seen 2 deers and 3 boards, so even potentiall further food. The eight mission also contained the bacon & eggs receipe. And i could have used coffee or tea to enhance stamina regeneration while running and digging.

I made 5600 dukes, that could have been spent for even more food... which is not needed, because the loot from the supplies totaly feed me anyway.... or a better shovel. And a full stack of clay (6000), what you will need later anyway.

 

I attached an openoffice sheet that shows details on what i looted, what the quest rewards have been and some comments on each mission.

7d2d burried supplies.ods 15.38 kB · 0 downloads

I'm just wishing you gave some details like...What color dye did you have in your boots while running....Kidding. Very impressive research. You're hired.

[Liesel Weppen]

3 minutes ago, Ti2xGr said:

What color dye did you have in your boots while running....Kidding.

I just mentioned that many details to prevent questions like "did you use coffee", "what perks have you skilled", "did you use megacrush for traveling", "did you have running shoes".... nope, NOTHING.

 

BTW: no need to full quote.

[Ranzera]

This mirrors my experience with buried treasure quests in this alpha. I'll add that I *still* preferentially grab these (The 1s, not the 2s) when I see them and I'm in full steel. They only get better as you get better gear.

[FA_Q2]

^ also a good source of food recipes and that can multiply those can foods many times over.

[beHypE]

Interesting data, I know I chimed in that discussion stating it sometimes end up being a 0 sum game. 

 

Couple of questions, how does the first entry of your data collect 736 clay in 4 in game hours for only 12 consumed food, while the 8th entry only collected 900 clay in 4.5 hours for a whooping 28 consumed food? 

 

Also, keep in mind this is for SP only. As soon as you make this a 2man trip or more, it very quickly becomes a losing proposition. 

 

Last thing to note, it isn't only about it being +EV food wise to make these quests, but it would be interesting to compare what you can achieve to collect doing any kind of loot run in that timespan. 

[Black Hat]

Impressive study @Liesel Weppen

Yes, I agree. I believe the best use for the beginning boost is doing the buried supplies quests.

[pApA^LeGBa]

Yep, basically works since they added quests, i never had any problem with food early on since then. Also a very good source for recipes, like seeds or even grandpa drinks.

[Liesel Weppen]

3 hours ago, beHypE said:

Couple of questions, how does the first entry of your data collect 736 clay in 4 in game hours for only 12 consumed food, while the 8th entry only collected 900 clay in 4.5 hours for a whooping 28 consumed food? 

Read the text. During the first three missions the newbie buff was active.

 

 

3 hours ago, beHypE said:

Also, keep in mind this is for SP only. As soon as you make this a 2man trip or more, it very quickly becomes a losing proposition. 

That's partly true. Both players need to walk there, but each player only dig half the amount. Additionally the circles are shown different for each player, so you can elaborate where they overlap and so need to dig even less.

But i'd recommend not to share burried suppliese quests. Better each player should do his own.

 

3 hours ago, beHypE said:

Last thing to note, it isn't only about it being +EV food wise to make these quests, but it would be interesting to compare what you can achieve to collect doing any kind of loot run in that timespan. 

You're free to do 10 fetch quests, 10 clear quests and 10 clear+fetch quests of each level and compare the results to my data.

The test was not about what action gives you the best loot overall, this was especially regarded to the food issue.

And the outcome is not "you should do 10 burried supplies in a row" but as i said, doing some burried supplies helps with getting food. So if you got offered burried supplies for your early quests, and maybe even the other quests are in much larger distance, it's worth to take the burried supplies.

[meganoth]

4 hours ago, beHypE said:

Interesting data, I know I chimed in that discussion stating it sometimes end up being a 0 sum game. 

 

Couple of questions, how does the first entry of your data collect 736 clay in 4 in game hours for only 12 consumed food, while the 8th entry only collected 900 clay in 4.5 hours for a whooping 28 consumed food? 

 

Also, keep in mind this is for SP only. As soon as you make this a 2man trip or more, it very quickly becomes a losing proposition. 

 

Last thing to note, it isn't only about it being +EV food wise to make these quests, but it would be interesting to compare what you can achieve to collect doing any kind of loot run in that timespan. 

2 man can either do each his own quest, which would trivially mean they both get a positive result out of it. Or they can share the quests which would use more stamina but would be a win overall if the quests are near to each other:

 

For example if the quests are the same distance to each other than to the trader (on an equilateral triangle), each doing his own quest would mean running 4 times the distance. Both doing both quests would mean running 6 times the distance and use the same stamina on digging. But they get double the quest rewards and double the xp.

 

Liesel's table suggests that stamina use of running to and from the quest is on average equal to the stamina use you need for digging (roughly 10 food). That means 2 men sharing the quests would use about 10 food more, but the average food net win out of 2 quests is 70. So even if we only look at stamina we are still far in the positive. 

 

 

 

 

[JCrook1028]

5 hours ago, beHypE said:

Interesting data, I know I chimed in that discussion stating it sometimes end up being a 0 sum game. 

 

Couple of questions, how does the first entry of your data collect 736 clay in 4 in game hours for only 12 consumed food, while the 8th entry only collected 900 clay in 4.5 hours for a whooping 28 consumed food? 

 

Also, keep in mind this is for SP only. As soon as you make this a 2man trip or more, it very quickly becomes a losing proposition. 

 

Last thing to note, it isn't only about it being +EV food wise to make these quests, but it would be interesting to compare what you can achieve to collect doing any kind of loot run in that timespan. 

Digging quests are horrible quests to share for that very reason so don't so it. On other mission types there is zombie killing xp to share. This type is really best done solo. Especially early game, you're only hurting yourself if you share them.

[meganoth]

30 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

Digging quests are horrible quests to share for that very reason so don't so it. On other mission types there is zombie killing xp to share. This type is really best done solo. Especially early game, you're only hurting yourself if you share them.

Well, you just need to show me where I erred in my calculation above or where Liesels data is wrong and I will believe you 😉

 

Maybe my explanation was a bit confusing so I'll do a condensed result:

 

Baseline: 1 player doing 2 quests one after another OR 2 players doing each 1 quest independently

 

Compared to the baseline 2 players sharing 1 quest of each if both quests are 300m from the trader and 300m apart:

 

More time used in sum: The time to run 600m 

Less food surplus: 60 instead of 70 on average

More quest rewards and quest coins: Doubled

More quest xp: Doubled.

 

[Kirtonos]

After this came up in the thread the other day, I ran a single test on this as well. I started a new game, did the newbie quests, got the the trader, and accepted a 335m BT quest.  No perk points spent, no stamina boosts or reductions active (coffee, shoes, jacket, etc). Newbie buff active.

Accepted quest with 93 food
Got to dig site with 91 food/89 water after sprinting the entire distance
Finished digging but before opening chest with 86 food/83 water
After fighting the spawned zeds with a few arrows from combo of newbie bow and wooden club, 84 food/80 water
Turned in with 80 food/78 water after sprinting back. 

Haul was 3 water and 3 cans that restored 15 food. Net +38 water and +25 food plus clay, xp, and dukes. 

Applying the data from above that the newbie buff has a roughly 20% food consumption, post newbie time my consumption would have been something like 24 food and 26 water giving me a net of +21 food and +34 water. Based on the data as well, my haul of +45 food was slightly below the average of 52 observed in the very limited data set of 10 attempts. 

We see some interesting deltas in that the lowest observed food was 20 and the highest was 94. In the first case, I would have been negative for food gained post newbie buff or sum zero with newbie buff. In the latter, certainly a bounty of food that could fuel a day. That probably included a high end item like meat stew instead of canned goods.

As such, we can conclude that some folks could have experiences where they do show a loss while others do not depending upon how kind or unkind loot RNG is to them.

[JCrook1028]

On 7/8/2020 at 11:04 AM, meganoth said:

Well, you just need to show me where I erred in my calculation above or where Liesels data is wrong and I will believe you 😉

 

Maybe my explanation was a bit confusing so I'll do a condensed result:

 

Baseline: 1 player doing 2 quests one after another OR 2 players doing each 1 quest independently

 

Compared to the baseline 2 players sharing 1 quest of each if both quests are 300m from the trader and 300m apart:

 

More time used in sum: The time to run 600m 

Less food surplus: 60 instead of 70 on average

More quest rewards and quest coins: Doubled

More quest xp: Doubled.

 

IF the 2 quests are in a specific path in line with each other than ok, you get a small gain from sharing the dig quest on the way to the other quest. But you'd get a batter return sharing a different type of quest. The only real benefit of the digging quest early is the food. The food does not double like the quest chest does. If that's too hard to understand then so be it. Does anyone do digging quests after getting their food system in order? I know I don't.

[FA_Q2]

I do.  They are really, really fast and advance the quest queue to the next stage as other quests do.  Typically I perform all the dig quests available for that day, complete a clear of fetch and then grab one more for that I complete that night.  Without doing the digging quests it is not all that likely that I could fit another clear quest in for the day.

[meganoth]

On 7/9/2020 at 9:09 PM, JCrook1028 said:

IF the 2 quests are in a specific path in line with each other than ok, you get a small gain from sharing the dig quest on the way to the other quest. But you'd get a batter return sharing a different type of quest. The only real benefit of the digging quest early is the food. The food does not double like the quest chest does. If that's too hard to understand then so be it. Does anyone do digging quests after getting their food system in order? I know I don't.

If going on each quest seperately would really double the food gain that would be true. And that is actually true if the quests are on opposite sites of the trader (the worst case)

 

But as I showed the difference in better, not even best circumstances is merely 10 food all summed up. For 10 food less and the time to run 600m you get twice the money and XP. Consider also that with more than 2 players you have even better chances that some of the quests are near each other and quest money is tripled or more.

 

So practically the distance between the two quests determines if sharing is better or worse. For 300m for example I would always go with sharing, no question about it.

 

[Laz Man]

I demand a retest now that there are ferocious animals wandering about lol.....

[JCrook1028]

3 hours ago, meganoth said:

If going on each quest seperately would really double the food gain that would be true. And that is actually true if the quests are on opposite sites of the trader (the worst case)

 

Um, everyone doing their own digging quests ALWAYS and by definition doubles the food. There is no if about it. Everyone then gets the full food quests worth of food each. You also ignored my other point. Which was - why even bother doing a digging quest early at all if not for the food? Its really the only thing that makes it worth doing. We are talking early days quests, in relation to the food issue. If you're sharing MP digging quests early then you're throwing away a great chance at good food amounts for all players and trading it for a tiny amount of creds and xp from the other T1 quests.

[Kirtonos]

Dig quests done separately:

1 quest = 1 food unit reward, 1 xp reward, 1 dukes reward, -1 stamina unit

Dig quests done in a pair:

1 quest = 1 food unit, 2 xp reward, 2 dukes reward, -1.6 stamina unit because the hard part of digging is halved but both still need to travel to location. 

If second person has a dig quest close by:

2 quests = 2 food unit, 4 xp rewards, 4 dukes rewards, -2 stamina unit because the big spend of travel is out of the way so only a small spend each for digging.

Based on the data above provided by OP:

1 food unit = ~52 stamina
1 stamina unit (without newbie buff) = ~19
1 stamina unit (with newbie buff) = ~14

Therefore we can conclude:

Dig quests done separately are net average ~33-38 stamina, 1 xp rewards, 1 dukes reward
A single dig quest done in a pair are net average ~22-30 stamina, 2 xp rewards, 2 dukes reward
Two close by dig quests done in a pair are net average ~33-38 stamina, 4 xp rewards, 4 dukes reward

Hell, even if the second dig quest wasn't close by, you're still greatly increasing the xp and dukes. If the second dig quest is in the opposite direction of the trader, both are considered to be a single quest done in a pair with the upside of stopping at the trader to maybe get one close by the second one. Although the whole point of this thread is kinda moot now since you'll probably get plenty of meat if you kill the animals along the way with b168. Also, your chances of survival are increased vs. a wolf with two people to lay damage on it. 

[meganoth]

4 hours ago, JCrook1028 said:

Um, everyone doing their own digging quests ALWAYS and by definition doubles the food. There is no if about it. Everyone then gets the full food quests worth of food each. You also ignored my other point. Which was - why even bother doing a digging quest early at all if not for the food? Its really the only thing that makes it worth doing. We are talking early days quests, in relation to the food issue. If you're sharing MP digging quests early then you're throwing away a great chance at good food amounts for all players and trading it for a tiny amount of creds and xp from the other T1 quests.

You are not doing the maths. You need to compare two guys doing each their own quest which gives them 2xfood with two guys doing those same two quests together which also gives them 2xfood. The interesting thing is that because they half the work per hole they are faster per quest.

 

If you simply add all costs in time and food together you will see that sharing the quests just adds minimal food and time. The difference is exactly the time and food needed for both of them to run to the new quest location, which is fairly small and inconsequential. But the quest reward is doubled which outweighs the small food loss even if you put great value in food.

 

[hiemfire]

Um.... Did they make the loot in the buried supplies instanced now??? Iirc everything beyond the supply box you get out of the chest is first come first serve meaning that if someone pulls a Mad Mole (in his A19 stream with Rick and Lathan) and just taps R when looting first then all that is left in the chest is the supply box.

[Kirtonos]

2 hours ago, hiemfire said:

Um.... Did they make the loot in the buried supplies instanced now??? Iirc everything beyond the supply box you get out of the chest is first come first serve meaning that if someone pulls a Mad Mole (in his A19 stream with Rick and Lathan) and just taps R when looting first then all that is left in the chest is the supply box.

Yes, it is still that way. Also, the zombies only trigger after the owner of the quest takes the supply item. 

[hiemfire]

4 minutes ago, Kirtonos said:

Yes, it is still that way. Also, the zombies only trigger after the owner of the quest takes the supply item. 

Thanks. I was aware of the specifics of the spawn trigger. Looking over your MP breakdown of the OP's findings I'm not seeing a sustainable value to doing the tier 1 buried supply quests in multiplayer, shared or not, since the food return is halved, thirded, quartered, etc. depending on the number participating, even with the stamina expenditure adjusted accordingly. Or am I reading it wrong?

[Whorhay]

People do buried supplies for the stuff in the supply chest? We always do them because they are fast, easy, and incredibly low risk. Many of the newer T1 clear or fetch quests will have you traveling just as far but contending with way more zombies and taking up tons more time. I'd rather knock out all the T1 quests possible in that first day or two and get some quest rewards that are frequently better than anything you can loot at the same game stage.

[Kirtonos]

1 minute ago, hiemfire said:

Thanks. I was aware of the specifics of the spawn trigger. Looking over your MP breakdown of the OP's findings I'm not seeing a sustainable value to doing the tier 1 buried supply quests in multiplayer, shared or not, since the food return is halved, thirded, quartered, etc. depending on the number participating, even with the stamina expenditure adjusted accordingly. Or am I reading it wrong?

The main takeaway is that while food units are equal the number of survivors divided by the number of dig quests you do, the xp and dukes are multiplicative. 2 people doing 2 quests nets 4 xp rewards and 4 duke rewards. 3 people doing 3 quests nets 9 xp rewards and 9 exp rewards, etc. Food reward is lower when number of people is greater than the number of quests but the other rewards more than make up for it especially when you start factoring in efficiency for time spent. Travel is the huge stamina spend (assuming you run, walking while doesn't drain stamina does cost time which is the most valuable resource) compared to actually digging up the chest especially with the new location system.