Cooking has now become obsolete

[RipClaw]

Everyone who is against the vomiting seem incongruously quite forgiving about being able to store perishables forever in crates. That is the true fantasy going on here. But people hate spoilage in games so....

 

Food spoilage can be an interesting game mechanic but it must be an integral part of the game that is interwoven with the other parts of the game for it to work.

 

That's how I imagine it:

 

You shoot a deer and harvest the meat.

The raw meat spoils within 2-3 days.

 

If you make grilled meat out of it, it lasts a few days longer.

 

Recipes teach the player how to keep the food fresh longer.

 

The spoiled meat is not useless but can be processed as biomass to compost which is then used for the garden. Also spoiled fruits and vegetables are processed to compost to get better yields in the garden.

 

Bit by bit you develop a self-sufficiency and learn more efficient ways to keep the food fresh longer so that you have more food.

 

You also have to take care of the garden. So that it is not destroyed by wild animals or zombies you have to protect it by e.g. building a wall around it or making a roof garden. I could also imagine that you have to water the garden regularly.

 

However, I already know that this idea will meet with rejection. Too positive and too much micromanagement.

[Tnasty68]

This is their answer to food spoilage.

 

its a lame answer.

 

electricity is in the game time to add some spoilage timers and food preservation methods. Food harvest and preservation is a fundamental aspect of real survival. smoking salting dehydrating canning freezing etc

 

a dynamic and in depth food system would be a lot of fun

[ZombieSurvivor]

Given that you found it in an unrefrigerated crate after who knows how long it was there and who knows who made it out of who knows what, I’m thinking that only having a 4% chance of vomiting was pretty generous of the devs.

 

Everyone who is against the vomiting seem incongruously quite forgiving about being able to store perishables forever in crates. That is the true fantasy going on here. But people hate spoilage in games so....

 

I see the game says 4% chance, I wish I had way of seeing these numbers in action while playing in order to test because I really think its bugged out.

 

One time i was eating and eating and i vomited something along the lines of 8 out of 10 times i ate....that just does not seem like 4%, possible yes likely I would puke that much from 4% very very unlikely. Flip a coin and it'll land 50% on one side and 50% on the other, probability. 4%... 8 out of 10...yeah not 4% at all...just my observations. *shrugs*

 

I also noticed eating like, cornbread seems to have a much greater chance of 4% than grilled meat...

 

This all could be bad luck but very very unlikely as probability state otherwise.

 

 

Boring math:

Here’s another common question in probability: “If you were to flip four coins, what are the chances that they would all come up heads?”

In this situation, you have four coins that are all independent events. So in this case, the correct calculation to determine the probability is:

½ x ½ x ½ x ½ = 1/16

 

Every flip of the coin doesn’t depend on the other coin flips, and we are dealing with a situation where one thing must occur as well as several other things. This is an “and” situation. When dealing with “and” situations, you must multiply the probabilities together. Remember, “and” means multiplication. Every flip has a probability of ½, so when these probabilities are multiplied together the probability of getting all heads on four coin flips is 1/16.

 

What if you were asked for the probability that a coin would come up heads four times in a row if a coin was flipped 20 times in a row? As seen in the smaller example above, there should be an “and” condition for every one of the twenty flips. So we’re looking for the probability of:

(½)^20 , which can be expressed as 1/(20)^20

 

Essentially, when doing this computation we are computing the value of ½ times ½ times ½, etc. repeated 20 times. You can apply this formula to any number of times a coin is flipped if you’re looking for the same outcome anytime, just fill in “N” with the number of times you flip the coin:

(½)^N

 

Note that while the odds of getting heads twenty times in a row are extremely low, approximately one in a million, if we had every American conduct this experiment many people would actually find that they were successful in getting twenty heads in a row, because of the sheer amount of people doing the experiment. Remember this when unlikely events seem to occur, that there are millions of events taking place every day and we just pay attention to the ones that are relevant to us.

 

 

so whats the probabolity that by eating 10 times 8 of those times i puke? <-- Not a real question just a question to get the wheels turning in some peoples heads.

[Reth]

[...]Everyone who is against the vomiting seem incongruously quite forgiving about being able to store perishables forever in crates. That is the true fantasy going on here. But people hate spoilage in games so....

 

I played at least four different survival/builder games with food spoilage - Rimworld (400+ hours), Empyrion (300+ hours), Mist Survival and Subsistence. They all have food spoilage/preservation mechanics. I don't think I ever read a single comment on the respective web boards stating that food spoilage should be removed from the game. It's natural for survival games and at this point is pretty much expected from any game that claims to be about survival.

 

Random food poisoning is a very bad substitute for it.

[kuratowakiru]

I can count on one hand how many times I got food poison since experimental release. And that was from eating the old sandwich because I was desperate, it either that or death.

 

You don't hear people go on the forum "omg, it said you get 4% of getting food poisoning. I've never got it, my mate said he got it once, can someone look into it?"

 

Imo, food poisoning is fine, make better food, less chance of you need to eat (rolling the dice) and get food poison.

[ZombieSurvivor]

I can count on one hand how many times I got food poison since experimental release. And that was from eating the old sandwich because I was desperate, it either that or death.

 

You don't hear people go on the forum "omg, it said you get 4% of getting food poisoning. I've never got it, my mate said he got it once, can someone look into it?"

 

Imo, food poisoning is fine, make better food, less chance of you need to eat (rolling the dice) and get food poison.

 

Thus the reason for cooking, with that great statement you made you have basically tore this threads title...well to shreds lol.

 

+1 good answer

 

 

Although I still stand by my belief that there is a bug happening with the % or soemthing that causes the chance to be waaaay above 4%.

[Roland]

You should be throwing up about as often as you are getting yellow loot bags...

[Roland]

I played at least four different survival/builder games with food spoilage - Rimworld (400+ hours), Empyrion (300+ hours), Mist Survival and Subsistence. They all have food spoilage/preservation mechanics. I don't think I ever read a single comment on the respective web boards stating that food spoilage should be removed from the game. It's natural for survival games and at this point is pretty much expected from any game that claims to be about survival.

 

Random food poisoning is a very bad substitute for it.

 

100% agreed.

[webskorpion]

... If I buy 100.000.000 tickets... do you think my chances are still 0.000001%? Because that is what you are saying. ...

 

With every cornbread you eat, you start a new lottery. Look for "cube stochastics". Higher quality food is better as you will need to participate less often in the lottery.

 

The chance is 4% each time.

 

Food poisoning, or better, vomiting from bad food, has very little significance in the higher game. I eat venison stew and blueberry pie in the base until I am completely fed (50 points above display). That's enough for the whole day. In iron stomach or metabolism I have not set any points. Vitamins are also available for prevention. Vitamins play a bigger role in the first few days when eating cheap food.

 

It is a survival game. In the beginning it is a high priority to take care of good food. If you plant corn and potatoes, you will not have any problems anymore.

 

Foods made with canned food (chili dog, fish tacos) should only have 2% food poisoning.

 

Dysentery due to water could be increased from 3% to 4%. Tea is easy to cook.

 

(Unfortunately, I can only speak very little English. I have used translation program German – English.)

[Viktoriusiii]

With every cornbread you eat, you start a new lottery. Look for "cube stochastics". Higher quality food is better as you will need to participate less often in the lottery.

 

The chance is 4% each time.

 

Food poisoning, or better, vomiting from bad food, has very little significance in the higher game. I eat venison stew and blueberry pie in the base until I am completely fed (50 points above display). That's enough for the whole day. In iron stomach or metabolism I have not set any points. Vitamins are also available for prevention. Vitamins play a bigger role in the first few days when eating cheap food.

 

It is a survival game. In the beginning it is a high priority to take care of good food. If you plant corn and potatoes, you will not have any problems anymore.

 

Foods made with canned food (chili dog, fish tacos) should only have 2% food poisoning.

 

Dysentery due to water could be increased from 3% to 4%. Tea is easy to cook.

 

(Unfortunately, I can only speak very little English. I have used translation program German – English.)

 

 

 

Jedes einzelne Essen hat 4%. Aber wenn du 100 essen musst um voll zu werden, ist die Chance nicht 4%.

Wurde schon besprochen, muss nicht wieder aufgewühlt werden

 

 

It beeing a survival game does not excuse stupid mechanics that do not add value to the game, just to fix a problem they see. I like the idea of food poisoning, but the current implementation does NOTHING besides holding you up/wasting your time and ressources. There should be something more interesting that changes up the gameplay.

 

 

And yes, teas are way too easy to cook. Should take 5x the flowers. And dysintery chance should be higher.

[ZombieSurvivor]

Every single meal has 4%. But if you have to eat 100 to get full, the chance is not 4%.

Has already been discussed, does not need to be stirred up again

 

Actually it is always 4%......or supposed to be. what do you mean?

[webskorpion]

... It beeing a survival game does not excuse stupid mechanics that do not add value to the game, just to fix a problem they see. ...

 

I think the game mechanics are good.

 

Nuclear fallout and the zombie virus has tainted pretty much everything except pre war canned goods.

 

... Taking vitamins prevents any chance of food poisoning, so take a vitamin and eat 50 rotten flesh if you want. ...

 

The card that you play is a small piece of non-irradiated and uncontaminated area on earth.

 

see „kickstarter projects 7-days-to-die-zombie-survival-game description“

 

Zitat: „… In the near future where the a third world war leaves the Earth in ruins but the worst was yet to come. Nobody knows for sure if it was the radiation, the biochemical weapons or an act of god but an unknown virus soon transforms the surviving humans into an army of the animated dead, acting as a single-minded being. You play a survivor trapped in the savage zombie infested world of Navezgane County Arizona one of the last true Eden’s on Earth. ...“

 

The food can also spoil and cooling would not be bad, has nothing to do with it. This can be additionally installed.

 

... But what is the counterplay to foodpoisoning? Spending loads of perkpoints (which may be wasted on certain builds) or spending loads of vitamins on it/only eating canned food. ...

 

Cooking high quality food, then food poisoning is rare and almost meaningless.

 

(Unfortunately, I can only speak very little English. I have used translation program German – English.)

[ZombieSurvivor]

Cooking high quality food, then food poisoning is rare and almost meaningless.

 

I keep hearing how food poisening is so rare yet it happens ALOT with me... darn you 7d2d for hating on me! lol

[Kalen]

I keep hearing how food poisening is so rare yet it happens ALOT with me... darn you 7d2d for hating on me! lol

 

I've only had poisoning once.... but I usually buy 1 or 2 points of Iron Gut

[ZombieSurvivor]

I've only had poisoning once.... but I usually buy 1 or 2 points of Iron Gut

 

I kept getting it over and over and over again from like level 1-30 then i finally gave in and spent 2 points in iron gut...never had it once since then.

[General Dexter]

Wow. I didn't expect such a big response. With my humble 1600h in this great game, The Fun Pimps have done a lot right so far, thank you. In my opinion the ability iron gut should be separated. I've never used it before, not even in the previous Alpha's. We always had enough to eat in the team and it made the cook happy to be needed. Now with food poisioning and the schematics our system doesn't work like that anymore. On our server we could live off canned food, yes, but everyone respects each other's profession. Thus a cooperative solution should be aimed at. The physician would be responsible for the healing of poisonings, while the cook has to make sure that this does not happen ;-)

[kuratowakiru]

I kept getting it over and over and over again from like level 1-30 then i finally gave in and spent 2 points in iron gut...never had it once since then.

 

yeah, rng is a B. I think I already mention this somewhere. First 14 days, barely find any food, constantly being hungry despite found the looting book for finding more can food. I found more empty cans than foods. Now that food are more stable, I found can food everywhere.

 

spent first 10 days walking everywhere because I found bike handle, wheels, but no bike frame, finally gave in and dump a point in grease monkey... nearest trader selling a bike.

[White-Gandalf]

The cooking math is botched

 

As it is implemented,

 

• when you eat a handful of berries ONE BY ONE, you become 99,99% poisoned
  
• when you eat the same handful of berries in one gulp, you become 4% poisoned.
  

 

I hope this picture is enough to make clear WHERE the culprit of the issue is located.

Respectively make it clear without further question, that the implementation has nothing to do with logic or intuition. Or CONSISTENCY.

 

You implemented CONST poisoning chance bound to atomic eating EVENTS.

Instead of binding the chance to the AMOUNT of things eaten.

 

I for myself modded the food items a little bit to mitigate that major mistake. By giving the food with very little calories a very little poisoning chance. Since the funpimps defined the chances only as integers, i kept them being integers, so the smallest chance is 1% for berries or corn cobs.

 

The problem with that approach is that the "iron gut" perk does not work as intended, since it does not PROPORTIONALLY decrease the poisoning chance, but ABSOLUTELY. The iron gut perk SHOULD decrease the poisoning chance for example "by 20% relative to whatever it was before", not "by ABSOLUTELY 1%".

 

===========

 

Again as always: For ME, that all amounts to no problem at all. I simply zero out the biggest dumbsticks by correcting the XMLs. When i post something in this forum, it's for other gamers that like to discuss the matter, and possibly for someone from the funpimps who is actually interested in such discussions.

 

So, as a disclaimer: I will never expect a funpimp to become my personal opinion slave (just in case my beloved personal moderator (was it Roland?) wants to repeat that point).

 

And as a hint to the funpimps: You seem to have fired all programmers who know how to do integer math (your integer divisions, for example in firing recipes in the forge and chemstation, are still screwed) and all programmers who actually know how statistics work (as seen in food poisoning). You seriously need some tutorials! There were times when you actually did those things right. Up to Alpha17, if i'm not mistaken.

[webskorpion]

Addition to my contribution before:

 

It should be briefly mentioned in the help, why you can ruin your stomach with food in the apocalypse and vomiting must. This increases the understanding of the game mechanics.

 

This game mechanic does not serve to take food out of the game. It's not a substitute for game mechanics, where food spoils over time and you have to build a fridge. This could also be installed later. The Starvation Mod in the Alpha 17 had implemented that.

 

It's just another threat that you can unexpectedly ruin your stomach in the Apocalypse and you feel hungry if you have not made provision. Especially in the first days it reinforces the survival aspect in the game. At the beginning, it makes sense to increasingly loot houses that promise food in the form of canned food and take care of farming for better food.

 

(Unfortunately, I can only speak very little English. I have used translation program German – English.)

[ZombieSurvivor]

for example in firing recipes in the forge and chemstation, are still screwed) and all programmers who..

 

I KNEW IT! Man I filed a bug report about this...then deleted after someone ont he forums told me i did the math wrong...i do suck at math so i just took there word for it and went and deleted that report. hmmmmm.......

 

 

and...everything you said..by far the most interesting and well said statements i've heard on these forums yet. *thumbs up*

[Viktoriusiii]

Actually it is always 4%......or supposed to be. what do you mean?

 

So... maybe I am retarded... but I have not seen an option to "bulkeat". I cant select 5 bacon and eggs to eat and have a 4% chance to get foodpoisoned.

So If I mant to eat 5 bacon and eggs (38 food, 4% poisoning each) the chance of me getting food poisoning BEFORE I can finish up is >4%. It is 18.5%.

 

So every time I eat 5 bacon and eggs in one sitting I have a 1/5 chance to get poisoned, even though every single meal has a 4% chance.

[ZombieSurvivor]

So... maybe I am retarded... but I have not seen an option to "bulkeat". I cant select 5 bacon and eggs to eat and have a 4% chance to get foodpoisoned.

So If I mant to eat 5 bacon and eggs (38 food, 4% poisoning each) the chance of me getting food poisoning BEFORE I can finish up is >4%. It is 18.5%.

 

So every time I eat 5 bacon and eggs in one sitting I have a 1/5 chance to get poisoned, even though every single meal has a 4% chance.

 

crap so this is why I did not understand. I suck at math, if possible can you break this down for a preschooler to understand. lol... like seriously

 

if 1 food eatin has a 4% chance.

I would think, even if you ate 5 of the same foods with the same chance it will always be 4%......

 

 

ROLAND!!!! explain please so I can understand, you're a math teacher right.

[AtomicUs5000]

Total probability - (percent_chance_of_no_food_poisoning)^times_repeated

1 - (96/100)^5

1 - (0.96)^5

1-0.8153726976‬

0.1846273024

18.5%

[ZombieSurvivor]

Total probability - (percent_chance_of_no_food_poisoning)^times_repeated

1 - (96/100)^5

1 - (0.96)^5

1-0.8153726976‬

0.1846273024

18.5%

 

I......understand.......nothing. *walks away frustrated* :-P

[Whorhay]

Think of it like flipping a coin. Each individual coin toss has a 50% chance of landing heads or tails. If you're only eating one bit of food then you just have that 4% chance. However if you do five coin tosses, or eat five bits of food the total odds of at least one of those tosses landing heads is much higher and so is the overall chance for food poisoning.