The big crying thread for 17.2 Economy

[Ghostlight]

Lots of complaining....

 

Well that'll be me. I don't know why but I have no desire to face bandits in this game and never have. I have been hoping for the longest time they are just a rumour and will never happen. Would much rather have had Behemoth or other kind of boss zombies that take serious firepower to bring down.

 

As long as we have an option to turn Bandits off, yeah?

[Ladarian]

Just in case anyone else was wondering why TFP don't just copy what modders do.

 

You mean like hiring Gazz? lol

[Roland]

Geez guys relax it was a joke, hence my smiley faces...

 

Nice try. I would have believed it from someone else. Smilies give you deniability but I’m well read on these forums and despite the smilies I know you weren’t just joking....

 

As a software engineer myself I agree with this. Testers are given a release at a certain stage. After their testing issues are brought back to developers who then make another update giving that update for testers to test and cycle repeats itself. Once the major issues are fixed then the product is released to the public. In this case, when the majority of RWG worlds are unplayable it should not have been released at all. Like I said earlier, 17.0 RWG was fine. They then made changes for the 17.1 release which borked it up somewhat. Now more changes to 17.2 RWG messed things up in a major way. If they knew about this why not revert back to 17.1 or 17.0 RWG?

 

Some of you are saying oh this is experimental and you opted in for this thing. Yeah that's true but game companies have an obligation to have a somewhat working product before releasing anything to the public for their feedback including while in EA phase. When players have to recreate a RWG world several times just to make it playable, then there's an issue.

 

You cannot always say 'You're playing in experimental branch so expect bugs.' Major (gamebreaking) bugs should be found/fixed by the company before any type of release. Users sometimes find major bugs but usually they're by accident and hard to find/reproduce. In this case however, the issue occurs immediately when you create the world! Its the first you thing you see!

 

This idea that you have that an experimental branch that must be opted into can’t have major issues is ridiculous. Nothing against you for not liking the issues themselves as I don’t like them either. But this whole conspiracy theory that “experimental” and “alpha” are fake terms that developers use to excuse themselves from not fixing things and people who use those terms to excuse the devs are just duped is silly.

 

BTW, I believe that they will either improve RWG acceptably or revert it before pushing A17.2 to stable. If it looks like there is too much to do and they will need to wait for A17.3 then they’ll probably revert it.

[PurgatoryWolf]

No we're not Bethesda... yet. Coding in followers in a fully destroyable world is a nightmare, and would subtract from the total entities alive in the world and the people (in general) want more zombies and more players not crappy NPCs that get stuck on stuff. I'd love to have followers but until we get believable bandits its not on the table at all.

 

Talk to the starvation team, they had pretty good bandits & workers in their a16 game.

[Prisma501]

Talk to the starvation team, they had pretty good bandits & workers in their a16 game.

 

Followers != bandits

 

Cheers

[Royal Deluxe]

Look how other companies failed at this topic. And then add a completly changeable world into your thoughts.

For me it woud be enough/nice to be able to recruit NPC, and then to be able to give every NPC 5 Positions he visit over the day

 

1: Bed (Sleep animation )

2: Bath

3: Workstation

4: Free time (Sitting animation with a chair or a stand Marker as block)

5: Defense Position (Standmarker he will normally not leave if enemys nearby)

 

Add a Crate to the NPC Beds you need to fill in Food, ammo, equipment maybe Coins. And you can take out things the NPC produced with his workstation

 

And add some situation dependent lines of text to each NPC.

The worst fallout 4 ever did was NPC´s that can life in a Paradise and still encumber

[Cirion]

I think the confusion then is player followers vs. NPC's who do their own thing? Am I understanding correctly?

 

I don't even really need or want followers that badly. I'd be sufficiently happy if I had base/town NPC's who did their own thing.

 

Player followers indeed are hard to code, I have played many AAA games that had buggy follower NPC's even so I can respect the hesitation behind follower NPC.

[madmole]

Can we stay on topic of crying?

[Armor9]

Lots of complaining....

 

If they take another 18 month and are implemented half assed, like this update was, you should expect nothing less and those people would not be wrong to complain.

[Royal Deluxe]

Can we stay on topic of crying?

 

This moment in Navezgane, after a long Mining week

[RestInPieces]

Can we stay on topic of crying?

 

When we will see some underwater and space content jeez what are you guys doing.

[madmole]

When we will see some underwater and space content jeez what are you guys doing.

 

When you load up Subnautica and Space Engineers lol. I finally played Subnautica, great game the first 20 hours. I just built a cyclops so I feel like its about over. I wish there was NPCs and a little more of a threat. I only died 2 or 3 times now 45 hours in. The Radio messages came in too fast when I was still learning the game, now its nothing but silence forever.

[RestInPieces]

When you load up Subnautica and Space Engineers lol. I finally played Subnautica, great game the first 20 hours. I just built a cyclops so I feel like its about over. I wish there was NPCs and a little more of a threat. I only died 2 or 3 times now 45 hours in. The Radio messages came in too fast when I was still learning the game, now its nothing but silence forever.

 

Have you explored the Lost River and met the Sea Emperor yet? It would be nice if there was some more interactivity in the world and there's not much replayability with the fixed map and all, but it's a good experience overall.

[PPanda0421]

Nice try. I would have believed it from someone else. Smilies give you deniability but I’m well read on these forums and despite the smilies I know you weren’t just joking....

 

Well I don't remember if it was this thread or another thread but we already had a discussion about this issue and if you didn't notice I stopped talking about it after a while. Why did I stop? Because I already accepted the answer...either wait or play a different branch. I even said myself I was going to wait until RWG was fixed so I could create a new world. Check my posts please if you don't believe me. Actually you don't even believe me at all so why bother now?

 

Yeah you really set yourself up for this situation so I took advantage of your situation to tease you guys a little bit.

So I was 10% serious and 90% joking. You claim to be well-read on these forums yet you cannot see the situation. Not surprising because I have read a lot of posts here on forums and I already know what you are like. Very defensive and sometimes unprofessional.

 

This idea that you have that an experimental branch that must be opted into can’t have major issues is ridiculous. Nothing against you for not liking the issues themselves as I don’t like them either. But this whole conspiracy theory that “experimental” and “alpha” are fake terms that developers use to excuse themselves from not fixing things and people who use those terms to excuse the devs are just duped is silly.

 

BTW, I believe that they will either improve RWG acceptably or revert it before pushing A17.2 to stable. If it looks like there is too much to do and they will need to wait for A17.3 then they’ll probably revert it.

 

Back to this topic again. From a software development point of view releasing a product that has not been internally tested (your words) - to the customer is completely ridiculous and unheard of. Perhaps it's different in the gaming industry than the healthcare/medical industry. People can die in the latter industry.

 

So again, relax. Some of us are just trying to pass the time until the next update.

[PPanda0421]

Talk to the starvation team, they had pretty good bandits & workers in their a16 game.

 

Yes the starvation mod was the mod I was thinking about. They have bandits which follow/attack you and also try to dodge your attacks. You can assign things for the workers to do like follow, farm, guard, patrol, craft, etc. Very fun!

 

TFP could use some of these ideas and expand on them.

[HungryZombie]

Well I don't remember if it was this thread or another thread but we already had a discussion about this issue and if you didn't notice I stopped talking about it after a while. Why did I stop? Because I already accepted the answer...either wait or play a different branch. I even said myself I was going to wait until RWG was fixed so I could create a new world. Check my posts please if you don't believe me. Actually you don't even believe me at all so why bother now?

 

Yeah you really set yourself up for this situation so I took advantage of your situation to tease you guys a little bit.

So I was 10% serious and 90% joking. You claim to be well-read on these forums yet you cannot see the situation. Not surprising because I have read a lot of posts here on forums and I already know what you are like. Very defensive and sometimes unprofessional.

 

 

 

Back to this topic again. From a software development point of view releasing a product that has not been internally tested (your words) - to the customer is completely ridiculous and unheard of. Perhaps it's different in the gaming industry than the healthcare/medical industry. People can die in the latter industry.

 

So again, relax. Some of us are just trying to pass the time until the next update.

 

I think there is a disconnect going on here. You are talking about releasing a product to a customer but that's not the relationship going on here. This game has not even been released yet. This is just an early access alpha game. They are testing things. We've paid to be along on the process. Nothing has been released to a customer yet.

[OldManBrian]

When you load up Subnautica and Space Engineers lol. I finally played Subnautica, great game the first 20 hours. I just built a cyclops so I feel like its about over. I wish there was NPCs and a little more of a threat. I only died 2 or 3 times now 45 hours in. The Radio messages came in too fast when I was still learning the game, now its nothing but silence forever.

 

Those are both great "Zen" games. Empyrion to me is the much better space "game", but there's just something about Space Engineers' creative mode that is very cool and relaxing. I think it's the structural integrity and complex systems of rotors/etc.

 

I'd also recommend Kerbal Space Program if you haven't tried it. (And check out Scott Manley's Kerbal Space Program youtube videos for tips on orbital mechanics.)

[Roland]

Well I don't remember if it was this thread or another thread but we already had a discussion about this issue and if you didn't notice I stopped talking about it after a while. Why did I stop? Because I already accepted the answer...either wait or play a different branch. I even said myself I was going to wait until RWG was fixed so I could create a new world. Check my posts please if you don't believe me. Actually you don't even believe me at all so why bother now?

 

Yeah you really set yourself up for this situation so I took advantage of your situation to tease you guys a little bit.

So I was 10% serious and 90% joking. You claim to be well-read on these forums yet you cannot see the situation.

 

If that is what you are stating then I'll believe you and sorry for not getting your joke immediately. Nice troll on me.

 

Not surprising because I have read a lot of posts here on forums and I already know what you are like. Very defensive and sometimes unprofessional.

 

This is more of your 10% and 90% again, right....?

 

Back to this topic again. From a software development point of view releasing a product that has not been internally tested (your words) - to the customer is completely ridiculous and unheard of. Perhaps it's different in the gaming industry than the healthcare/medical industry. People can die in the latter industry.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say also that you should expect message boards and forums to be different in the video game industry than they are in the healthcare/medical industry. I don't treat these forums the same way I would if we were talking about health and medicine and if you are holding me to the standard of serious moderator of serious issues rather than gamer moderator talking about zombies etc. then maybe you are the one not relaxing quite enough.

 

I do agree 100% with you that when the game is released and published to customers as the finished product it better not have this level of buggy garbage or it will be completely ridiculous. But as often as people bring up the erroneous idea that the experimental version can't have known and largely untested issues I'm willing to poke the necessary holes in that viewpoint.

 

To tie it in to your industry: Experimental drugs can be opted by patients who are hopeful for a cure but there are probably known side effects and issues that can be pretty bad. Yet, the patient can still choose to participate in drug trials for medication not yet released or approved for public consumption. Same is true of the experimental version. You must choose to opt in because it is not ready for public consumption.

 

So again, relax. Some of us are just trying to pass the time until the next update.

 

Cool.

[PPanda0421]

If that is what you are stating then I'll believe you and sorry for not getting your joke immediately. Nice troll on me.

 

Gotta admit you really set yourself up . It's all cool though now that you understand I was just teasing you guys.

 

This is more of your 10% and 90% again, right....?

 

No 100% serious that time (clarification, that time meaning my reply)

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say also that you should expect message boards and forums to be different in the video game industry than they are in the healthcare/medical industry. I don't treat these forums the same way I would if we were talking about health and medicine and if you are holding me to the standard of serious moderator of serious issues rather than gamer moderator talking about zombies etc. then maybe you are the one not relaxing quite enough.

 

I do agree 100% with you that when the game is released and published to customers as the finished product it better not have this level of buggy garbage or it will be completely ridiculous. But as often as people bring up the erroneous idea that the experimental version can't have known and largely untested issues I'm willing to poke the necessary holes in that viewpoint.

 

To tie it in to your industry: Experimental drugs can be opted by patients who are hopeful for a cure but there are probably known side effects and issues that can be pretty bad. Yet, the patient can still choose to participate in drug trials for medication not yet released or approved for public consumption. Same is true of the experimental version. You must choose to opt in because it is not ready for public consumption.

 

 

 

Cool.

 

I meant that the software development process is different. Your example with experimental drugs is a little different from this scenario since we're talking about software development but I understand what you mean. New drugs (and devices/instruments) go through clinical trials before getting FDA approval for general consumer release. I'm a software person so I don't know the exact details but that is the short version of it. But before it goes to clinical trials, machines and software that interface with them go through extensive testing so that no one is hurt/injured and/or the device does not produce inaccurate results. Like I said different industries.

 

Kind of off topic but if you're stressed I recommend seeing 'Alita Battle Angel.' I just saw it and was completely blown away. There were some issues with it but I was very entertained. Who knows, maybe the movie can give you guys new ideas: weapons, armor, NPCs, new enemies, etc.

[Cirion]

Perhaps it's different in the gaming industry than the healthcare/medical industry. People can die in the latter industry.

 

must resist urge to comment on professional murder AKA big pharma aka medical industry.... ahem... cough... ahem.... I could totally open up a massive can of worms here LOL... ok ok. (medical industry rubs me the wrong way far more than any video game company does). But I'm gonna be good and not derail the thread. sooo.. imma leave it at that. lol

[PPanda0421]

must resist urge to comment on professional murder AKA big pharma aka medical industry.... ahem... cough... ahem.... I could totally open up a massive can of worms here LOL... ok ok. (medical industry rubs me the wrong way far more than any video game company does). But I'm gonna be good and not derail the thread. sooo.. imma leave it at that. lol

 

Haha. I'll admit drugs do kill but drugs also save lives. What I dislike are drug companies that charge exorbitant prices to people who are just trying to save a loved one. Also health insurance should be cheaper...

 

Must switch back or we'll get sent to the principal's office.

 

So how about the in-game economy eh? . Honestly, I think they nerfed (player) sell prices too much. Also we need more money sinks somehow. I always have an excess of dukes at end-game. Need to use them.

[dnoah]

So how about the in-game economy eh? . Honestly, I think they nerfed (player) sell prices too much. Also we need more money sinks somehow. I always have an excess of dukes at end-game. Need to use them.

 

How about adding an option to pre-order goods from trader at increased price? That may serve as a money sink as well as ameliorate possible resource deficiencies. Some late-game items' stock probabilities may be tweaked too, so that they will be mostly pre-ordered and hence more expensive.

[Ghostlight]

Yeah get me a Beaker you sh*t

[PPanda0421]

How about adding an option to pre-order goods from trader at increased price? That may serve as a money sink as well as ameliorate possible resource deficiencies. Some late-game items' stock probabilities may be tweaked too, so that they will be mostly pre-ordered and hence more expensive.

 

Pre-ordered goods is a good idea. Perhaps require a down payment and the rest upon receipt. Depending on the item, the time it takes to actually get them could vary. Much harder to find a blood withdrawal kit than a pickaxe for example. Half and half on your second suggestion. We don't want to force the player to always rely on pre-orders - the secret stash is there for a reason. However balance checks must be in place with this new system to prevent the player from getting everything early on. Like have only 1 preorder across all traders. Eg. You've already met 2 traders. You preorder from trader 1. If you talk to trader 2, he'd say something like 'Word out there is you're looking for x. I'll be on the lookout for that as well.' Could also use the bartering levels to pre-order certain items.

 

Tasking the trader to repair armor/weapons using dukes could work early on. At mid to late game though you'll more likely have tons of resources to repair them yourself. Perhaps when the trader repairs them they last longer.

 

Hiring/renting mercanaries is another idea but they're not even close to implementing followers yet.

 

I read somewhere the idea of scrapping dukes to brass. I think that's a very good idea. Brass is very limited compared to other resources in this game. Obviously it can't be 1:1 ratio - need balance.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Yeah get me a Beaker you sh*t

 

I feel ya. I got my 2nd beaker in an air drop but on day 8x. Was able to make a chem station but still cannot make first aid kits because I don't have a blood-withdrawal kit.

[Vomkat]

If you enjoy trading, you should check out EVE Online?