The big crying thread for 17.2 Economy

[Royal Deluxe]

On the contrary, Royal. Think about it. This pool would act like a safety threshold and would only affect late gate. The player shouldn't be able to drain it at early game, so it shouldn't affect early game at all and prices don't have to be overnerfed in favor of late game mass production tactics that make dukes obsolete.

 

Allways when you start talking about a max amount of coins trader have i am remembered on Fallout 3. I hated this sooo much.

I spended a huge part of my gametime only by moving around from trader to trader to raise my money. And then when i buyed something valuable i directly sold stuff to get my cash back. Cant remember any good on this topic.

 

Anyway, for the worst case i spam traders all over the map. The worse is only that this screws other balanced content, like the chance to find a auger at a trader

[OldManBrian]

The duke will probably raid your base. He's like a neagan of TWD. Can't really get into details for spoilers the duke ships with the gold version of the game.

 

There's another use for tokens in the game, as "protection money" to regularly pay off the duke so he won't raid you.

 

The more money you have, the larger the "protection fee" is.

 

(Kind of like Rimworld, where the more total "value" all your items add up to, the larger the attacks against you are.)

[Cirion]

There's another use for tokens in the game, as "protection money" to regularly pay off the duke so he won't raid you.

 

The more money you have, the larger the "protection fee" is.

 

So literally Neagan then. You can either pay a "tax" or he raids you and you attempt to defeat him instead, just like in TWG, and maybe he doesn't kill you, instead captures you and kills off one or two of your NPC's you hired with his melee weapon "Lucille" in a dramatic execution style... then you have to escape and get your stuff back ... ok, maybe that's a little too much of TWG rip off lol

[OldManBrian]

So literally Neagan then. You can either pay a "tax" or he raids you and you attempt to defeat him instead, just like in TWG

 

Sure! I never watched TWG, but it's a logical outcome in a zombie apocalypse.

[meganoth]

Nothing else to do. Why do you want to gate Money that fulfill as you say yourself, no purpose.

Why restricting a Sandboxgame without a aim ?

 

Because I have a desire to get good armor, weapons and mods and stuff and a game is only interesting as long as this chase is on and not too easy. Buying from the trader is too easy.

 

An optimal balance for me would mean that a scavenger would have at least 70%-80% of his gear found in POIs and only a few missing pieces bought from the trader. The trader would be mostly there for getting more ammo or building materials. It would be the place miners go to as an alternative to scavenging.

[Royal Deluxe]

Because I have a desire to get good armor, weapons and mods and stuff and a game is only interesting as long as this chase is on and not too easy. Buying from the trader is too easy.

 

An optimal balance for me would mean that a scavenger would have at least 50%-80% of his gear found in POIs and only a few missing pieces bought from the trader. The trader would be mostly there for getting more ammo or building materials. It would be the place miners go to as an alternative to scavenging.

 

Maybe use a seed with only one trader.

Or set the trader restock to 17368 Days

<set xpath="/traders/trader_info[@id='1' and @reset_interval='3']/@reset_interval">17368</set>

[meganoth]

Maybe use a seed with only one trader.

Or set the trader restock to 17368 Days

<set xpath="/traders/trader_info[@id='1' and @reset_interval='3']/@reset_interval">17368</set>

 

Nah. I would limit the trader to only have stuff up to quality level 4 or limit everything above to be much more seldom and limited to the stash and high barter perk.

 

And make a few things only available through scavenging, some only through trader.

 

And if I can't limit the amount of money a trader has, increase mark-down. The goal must be that even in mid-game I have to carefully think what to to buy and what not. This is the case in early game in A17.1 but not later in the game. Maybe it is in A17.2?

 

Limiting the number of traders doesn't work because they are essential for quests

[RipClaw]

Because I have a desire to get good armor, weapons and mods and stuff and a game is only interesting as long as this chase is on and not too easy. Buying from the trader is too easy.

 

An optimal balance for me would mean that a scavenger would have at least 70%-80% of his gear found in POIs and only a few missing pieces bought from the trader. The trader would be mostly there for getting more ammo or building materials. It would be the place miners go to as an alternative to scavenging.

 

However, this would require that you can also find appropriate equipment in the POIs. At the moment it looks rather bad. Even with lucky looter on 5 and the lucky googles you will usually only find level 1 and 2 items and hardly any good imods for the weapons or armor.

 

But without the appropriate equipment you will hardly dare to enter the increasingly dangerous POIs. This leads you to avoid the POIs and try to get XP via other ways until you can build your own equipment.

[meganoth]

However, this would require that you can also find appropriate equipment in the POIs. At the moment it looks rather bad. Even with lucky looter on 5 and the lucky googles you will usually only find level 1 and 2 items and hardly any good imods for the weapons or armor.

 

But without the appropriate equipment you will hardly dare to enter the increasingly dangerous POIs. This leads you to avoid the POIs and try to get XP via other ways until you can build your own equipment.

 

The big problem is as you point out the discrepancy of poi costing you more than you get out. Since this specifically concerns ammunition and not other stuff I would propose that lucky looter also makes you find ammo more often and in bigger quantities

 

A scavenger has to find his ammo in pois and therefore must get a positive ammo balance out of a poi (either directly or through trade, but then the trader needs much more ammo). A miner on the other hand (with a low lucky looter perk) will get his ammo out of the ground and look for weapons or mods when he visits a poi. He would accept to get less ammo out of a poi than he uses up.

[Scyris]

Leveling the trader skill is not really worth it in terms of incresing gains from selling things, but it really lowers the prices a ton. I do feel its a tad TOO hard to make dukes now though. Used to make most of my money off the plastic/mechanical/electrical parts, but now they aren't worth farming to sell anymore.

[Scyris]

The big problem is as you point out the discrepancy of poi costing you more than you get out. Since this specifically concerns ammunition and not other stuff I would propose that lucky looter also makes you find ammo more often and in bigger quantities

 

A scavenger has to find his ammo in pois and therefore must get a positive ammo balance out of a poi (either directly or through trade, but then the trader needs much more ammo). A miner on the other hand (with a low lucky looter perk) will get his ammo out of the ground and look for weapons or mods when he visits a poi. He would accept to get less ammo out of a poi than he uses up.

 

They unbroke stealth it seems in 17.2, sledgehammer on a stealth hit does massive damage, Get 1 point in the perk to make it hit even harder with base agi. I'm actually able to get in melee range crouched with a sledge now to hit em for a sneak attack, be even easier if I actually got the skills. 2 in skull crusher, and 2 mods in a sledge, and 3-4 str, will 1 shot normal male and female zombies, and 2 shot fatties on normal headshots. One shots any normal fat zombie on a stealth hit, might 1 shot normal ferals too. Melee costs no ammo and later game first aid bandages are a joke once you get a aloe farm going which you can do pretty early usually. I personally rarely ever use guns in a poi, even with a silencer (which btw still doesn't do a damn thing other than lower your damage), it aggros the entire damn floor and anything outside.

[RipClaw]

The big problem is as you point out the discrepancy of poi costing you more than you get out. Since this specifically concerns ammunition and not other stuff I would propose that lucky looter also makes you find ammo more often and in bigger quantities

 

Actually, I'm all about the other stuff. I mean higher quality weapons, mods and armor parts.

 

If I go a lot in POIs then my gamestage will rise very fast because I have to kill a lot of zombies. But with that come also stronger zombies. In order to counter these stronger zombies I need some equipment which I may not be able to make myself at this time.

 

If I couldn't find the equipment before and the trader doesn't sell the equipment then I will have to avoid the POIs until I can make the equipment myself to keep up with the zombies again.

 

I always see the whole thing from the perspective of a single player. He can't specialize early but has to fill each role at the same time.

[meganoth]

Actually, I'm all about the other stuff. I mean higher quality weapons, mods and armor parts.

 

If I go a lot in POIs then my gamestage will rise very fast because I have to kill a lot of zombies. But with that come also stronger zombies. In order to counter these stronger zombies I need some equipment which I may not be able to make myself at this time.

 

If I couldn't find the equipment before and the trader doesn't sell the equipment then I will have to avoid the POIs until I can make the equipment myself to keep up with the zombies again.

 

I always see the whole thing from the perspective of a single player. He can't specialize early but has to fill each role at the same time.

 

Well, I see crafting as an alternative way that you can but don't need to use.

 

In a well-balanced game you should have found weapons and mods good enough to kill better zombies and as a scavenger you also should have the relevant perks. I'm pretty sure even with the possible problem of Lucky Looter not being effective enough you would have looted say 30 pois before radiated zombies make up a bigger part of your POI diet. Don't tell me that you didn't find at least 3 weapons of quality 4 or 5 in roughly 30 weapon boxes. And bought another 1 or 2 from the trader with the rest of the loot. Now with a q4 weapon+mods and perks at 3 or 4 you will have no problem killing stronger zombies.

 

I played a SP game in 17.0 and was well equipped by the time I saw the first radiated occur in pois (but I played 90min days and got killed because I bungled up the entrance of my horde night base). I did put some points into INT (for workstations and vehicles) but did not craft any weapons or mods, I got them from raiding pois combined with quests and buying armor from the trader

 

I think armor is the missing link at the moment, you just don't find armor through scavenging and have to buy or craft it. Also vehicles parts (not only bicycle parts) should be more common. Getting a vehicle without crafting should be more difficult, more dependant on luck, but quite possible.

 

Zombies in pois can be killed by almost any weapon by the way. Low-quality weapons just mean you have to use more ammo per zombie.

[PoppaTot]

Low-quality weapons just mean you have to use more ammo per zombie.

 

The way I understand it is that quality has nothing to do with damage. Low quality means you just repair more often and have less mod slots.

[Cirion]

The way I understand it is that quality has nothing to do with damage. Low quality means you just repair more often and have less mod slots.

 

And this is why one of the first mods I downloaded was higher quality = higher damage. Yeah sure you can put more mods in it... but... meh, especially early game with no mods.

 

Plus, I am pretty sure the math works out such that even a fully kitted Q6 weapon now is weaker than a Q600 weapon was in A16. I was underwhelmed on the damage in A17 on fully kitted items.

[meganoth]

The way I understand it is that quality has nothing to do with damage. Low quality means you just repair more often and have less mod slots.

 

I expect concerning readers to assume that quality weapons are sought because someone wants to put mods into them. And that in general is not a problem. You will not have enough mods to stuff your second or third weapon to the hilt, but if you don't find or buy enough mods to have your main weapon fully modded you are one unlucky bastard

 

EDIT: RipClaw explained it in case you never heard about installed mods automatically increasing damage, but I really can't believe you don't know already. I'm assuming here you are just nit-picking

[RipClaw]

The way I understand it is that quality has nothing to do with damage. Low quality means you just repair more often and have less mod slots.

 

Each mod also increases the damage. Even dye increases damage.

 

Therefore it is an advantage to have a weapon with a higher level to accommodate more mods.

[PoppaTot]

I expect concerning readers to assume that quality weapons are sought because someone wants to put mods into them. And that in general is not a problem. You will not have enough mods to stuff your second or third weapon to the hilt, but if you don't find or buy enough mods to have your main weapon fully modded you are one unlucky bastard

 

EDIT: RipClaw explained it in case you never heard about installed mods automatically increasing damage, but I really can't believe you don't know already. I'm assuming here you are just nit-picking

 

Nah, not nitpicking at all honestly. I just wanted to clarify to any new readers that the quality levels on weapons have no damage modifiers. That was all.

[Ghostlight]

Actually, I'm all about the other stuff. I mean higher quality weapons, mods and armor parts.

 

If I go a lot in POIs then my gamestage will rise very fast because I have to kill a lot of zombies. But with that come also stronger zombies. In order to counter these stronger zombies I need some equipment which I may not be able to make myself at this time.

 

If I couldn't find the equipment before and the trader doesn't sell the equipment then I will have to avoid the POIs until I can make the equipment myself to keep up with the zombies again.

 

I always see the whole thing from the perspective of a single player. He can't specialize early but has to fill each role at the same time.

 

You don't have to avoid POIs, that is nonsense. You can tell which ones are deadly and which are not. Avoid the deadly ones until you can keep up? Nothing wrong with having some POIs that you fear to enter till much later. Adds to the immersion and tension.

[RipClaw]

You don't have to avoid POIs, that is nonsense. You can tell which ones are deadly and which are not. Avoid the deadly ones until you can keep up? Nothing wrong with having some POIs that you fear to enter till much later. Adds to the immersion and tension.

 

I disagree with you. You can't see whether a POI is deadly or not from the outside. If you know the house types you can estimate from the experience how many zombies you can expect inside but the POIs can also surprise you. I play on the Navezgane map and there is an inconspicuous wooden house in the desert. From the outside you don't expect more than 10-15 zombies total inside. But under this house is an underground dungeon.

 

You can see the building in this video from Capp00:

At 3:44 you can see the underground bunker below.

 

But to get back to the subject.

 

I myself haven't stopped going into POIs but I've heard from other players who have done this and I understand it.

I adjusted my approach and improved my equipment but without traders it would not have been possible. Most of the armor I currently wear I bought from traders because I couldn't make it myself at that time and the armor I found in POIs was at best level 2 with only one slot. That's why I don't like it if somebody want to reduce the possibilities for the player to buy the equipment if they don't balance it with a better loot in the POIs at the same time.

 

At the moment I don't go much into POIs anymore as I mainly work on my new base to get some space and some more order in my storage.

[Ghostlight]

I disagree with you. You can't see whether a POI is deadly or not from the outside.

 

Well I can. Maybe I've played A17 too much and recognize most them by now? Any building with an entry way that is not a standard front door perhaps with some flimsy metal nailed to it is a no-no. Scaffolding, holes in ground, jumping in from the nearby garage, inviting windows at the back with lamps shining on them. Avoid if in any doubt.

[madmole]

That sounds interesting. Will we be able to hire people to help us in this attack? Sounds way harder than a blood moon horde. Rick had to ally himself with bunches of people to defend against Neagan after all...

 

If you want to pay your steam friends to help you thats fine by me lol.

[PoppaTot]

If you want to pay your steam friends to help you thats fine by me lol.

 

LUL, I think he was asking if we are going to have NPCs that we can hire.

[madmole]

And this is why one of the first mods I downloaded was higher quality = higher damage. Yeah sure you can put more mods in it... but... meh, especially early game with no mods.

 

Plus, I am pretty sure the math works out such that even a fully kitted Q6 weapon now is weaker than a Q600 weapon was in A16. I was underwhelmed on the damage in A17 on fully kitted items.

 

Thats because there are perks too that inflate damage the most. Add bleeding or stun or AOE knockdown to it and its even more OP. You can't compare things out of context.

[Cirion]

LUL, I think he was asking if we are going to have NPCs that we can hire.

 

Yeah, I'm not literally paying anyone lol. I meant pay NPCs with in game coins