Steam reviews - I kinda figured

[Corky]

Right. And do you know what the Enraged do when I post information I know from the devs? They attack me and say that I am shilling, and being a yes man, and making proclamations with my inflated ego, and bullying...etc.

 

Someone: The new AI sucks. It is so easily exploited. The zombies always know right where you are. I'm going to uninstall this until it gets returned to the way it was in A16.

 

Roland: The new AI is just the first version. It is not the intended final product. faatal has plans to make it better. The developers are aware of the exploits and the issues and they are working on solutions.

 

Someone: You just have to say that stuff Roland as a company man! How far up TFP's ass is your head these days?!?! Why do you have to dictate to us and stifle criticism so much?!?!??!! Stop telling me to shutup and go away!!!!!!

 

Nobody asks questions when they are livid. They just make accusations and leap to wild conspiracies and they don't want to hear actual real information from the developers. They just want to hear that they are going to get their way.

 

I wouldn't worry about a few random stragglers that live on this forum.

[OzHawkeye]

I wouldn't worry about a few random stragglers that live on this forum.

 

Well, as a moderator myself, I'm working to reduce that number from "a few" to "none" eventually... hehe.

 

I hate the way Roland gets treated sometimes on these boards, one of the reasons I took up Rolands offer to become a moderator was to try and get negative feedback into a civil constructive fashion, but it's a hard slog.

 

Modding is, I have little doubt, the ultimate, best, asset of the game. If Gold goes live in an extremely hyper-moddable state, then I have no doubt, you'll see mods come out that twist and turn the game every which way but loose, and introduce, modify, resurrect, features to suit all possible tastes.

 

That's why, even if I don't personally care for the Perk system, I'm still such a big supporter of TFP - I believe, in fact, I'm damned near certain, that when Gold goes live, those features of previous Alphas that I especially enjoyed, I'll be able to mod back in, or someone else will release a mod that does it for me.

[JaxTeller718]

I see the game as doing tasks to get food, water, and shelter taken care of and then explore and loot and build defenses to survive blood moons and then continue exploring and improving gear and reaching the point at which you feel invulnerable.

 

I really enjoyed this game when there was no experience or levels at all. Every task and objective I set for myself was simply to survive and move toward thriving. Since xp has been introduced I read all the time posts like “mining isn’t worth doing because you don’t earn enough xp”.

 

In my opinion, the LBD model puts too much of a focus on doing tasks for their own sake instead of doing them for survival game focused objectives. I personally don’t like that distracting mechanic constantly turning my thoughts towards xp gains. I feel xp gains should be a supporting background feature rather than the whole point of playing.

 

I like the point system because (once I fixed the killing xp imbalance) I truly felt free to do whatever I wanted in order achieve objectives to live and survive knowing it was all helping me to improve. I spend my points at night and truly enjoy making those purchasing decisions.

 

If I were to mod the game further it would be to remove the xp bar and the xp gains from the main screen because I don’t want anything screaming at me to notice xp.

 

LBD as a system screams “focus on xp!!!” more loudly than all other game mechanics. I wonder whether some of you who are so angry about these changes to the xp mechanic would even enjoy playing Alpha 10 which was the last update pre-xp. Would you even enjoy the game without any xp in the game at all?

 

Hmmm, you have actually posed a very interesting scenario. I think if there was a lot more looting options (1-600 qual or some other mechanic in effect) you add the mods in, put everything BACK into recipes and schematics ONLY and remove xp and progression?

 

I think it may work. I know one thing. Working on the mod I'm SO absorbed into having perks and progression make sense. It's kind of a crutch in a way. It forces the game to go longer. It keeps things away from the player for pre-determined amount of time.

 

Id be very interested in a version of A17 (but with quality back in so we have a lot of reasons to loot tools and weapons) that has ZERO xp and progression. It may actually be a crazier and more wild experience.

 

The game would be scavenger and crafting focused. Id play it.

[Roland]

I’d definitely play that.

[miyagi]

I thought madmole, roland and the guy with the fuzzy face in the videos were all the same person. This is not so?

 

I am ok with those weird surface dwellers having what they want, like digging zombies. As for us normal people, the underground dwellers, we can have what we want too...

 

BECAUSE somewhere in this thread, madmole/roland/fuzzy face is *on record* saying that they will consider adding at least some "options" (like turning off digging zombies). Just make sure that happens, or there's going to be trouble! The more options the better. Maybe some sliders too.

[hotpoon]

I see the game as doing tasks to get food, water, and shelter taken care of and then explore and loot and build defenses to survive blood moons and then continue exploring and improving gear and reaching the point at which you feel invulnerable.

 

I really enjoyed this game when there was no experience or levels at all. Every task and objective I set for myself was simply to survive and move toward thriving. Since xp has been introduced I read all the time posts like “mining isn’t worth doing because you don’t earn enough xp”.

 

In my opinion, the LBD model puts too much of a focus on doing tasks for their own sake instead of doing them for survival game focused objectives. I personally don’t like that distracting mechanic constantly turning my thoughts towards xp gains. I feel xp gains should be a supporting background feature rather than the whole point of playing.

 

I like the point system because (once I fixed the killing xp imbalance) I truly felt free to do whatever I wanted in order achieve objectives to live and survive knowing it was all helping me to improve. I spend my points at night and truly enjoy making those purchasing decisions.

 

If I were to mod the game further it would be to remove the xp bar and the xp gains from the main screen because I don’t want anything screaming at me to notice xp.

 

LBD as a system screams “focus on xp!!!” more loudly than all other game mechanics. I wonder whether some of you who are so angry about these changes to the xp mechanic would even enjoy playing Alpha 10 which was the last update pre-xp. Would you even enjoy the game without any xp in the game at all?

 

Wow, it's so amazing to me that people think so differently. I never used to think about XP, or felt driven to do anything to increase it in previous Alphas. I just played - of course I got a little kick when I would see I had inadvertently leveled up my athletics / scavenging / pistol skills or whatever, but I wasn't trying, I was just enjoying myself.

 

Now though...way different story. The level and skill gates keep me from actually playing the game, so I find myself specifically concentrating on leveling up so that I can unlock the things I really want to do, or more precisely how I want to be. In A17, I keep thinking to myself: "Why is my character such a f*cking spaz?" What adult doesn't know how to boil an egg? What person gets food poisoning from literally everything? What person becomes almost incapacitated from a skipped meal or two? My whole game focus now is to earn XP so I can buy points in different areas to eventually get my player to resemble a normal functioning human being...so that THEN I can actually start playing.

[Hellsmoke]

My whole game focus now is to earn XP so I can buy points in different areas to eventually get my player to resemble a normal functioning human being...so that THEN I can actually start playing.

 

Exactly. By the time I can start picking fun skills I'm already at level 50 or so. Seems all of early game is spent just trying to be able to move properly and not starve to death after 5 minutes.

[DaVegaNL]

Did stamina bother anyone prior to 17? No? Then stamina isn't the issue, the current implementation of it is.

 

Are you still going on abour stamina, mate? It still ain't a problem for me

[DaVegaNL]

For me, LBD, or whatever you want to call it, was way less interesting and immersive than the current system.

 

You played the game, and you were constantly bombarded by messages saying; you reached level 21 with construction tools, you reached level 11 with shotguns. Bland. Boring. If I wanted to play Skyrim's system, I would go ams play skyrim. Most of the time I didnt even bother checking which level I was, or even spending points. Why not you ask? Because the game was too easy. It was snore-fest to the max.

 

Now, with the new system, i feel like I'm working towards some goals. And looking through the perks and deciding which one to pick is way, way more interesting and immersive than the previous mechanic.

[Thorne]

You know, Roland, there's a difference between being driven to level up and wanting to dispense with the process (properly balanced) entirely. You can't have the struggle without the suck, but not all of us are masochists. No one enjoys the early stages enough to linger in them once they've experienced what it is to be leveled up. You're definitely attacking a straw-man here. Please give me some indication that you do understand why this sort of game is popular.

[Roland]

Wow, it's so amazing to me that people think so differently. I never used to think about XP, or felt driven to do anything to increase it in previous Alphas. I just played - of course I got a little kick when I would see I had inadvertently leveled up my athletics / scavenging / pistol skills or whatever, but I wasn't trying, I was just enjoying myself.

 

Now though...way different story. The level and skill gates keep me from actually playing the game, so I find myself specifically concentrating on leveling up so that I can unlock the things I really want to do, or more precisely how I want to be. In A17, I keep thinking to myself: "Why is my character such a f*cking spaz?" What adult doesn't know how to boil an egg? What person gets food poisoning from literally everything? What person becomes almost incapacitated from a skipped meal or two? My whole game focus now is to earn XP so I can buy points in different areas to eventually get my player to resemble a normal functioning human being...so that THEN I can actually start playing.

 

This is what I find interesting as well. It really is amazing how differently designed systems will affect different people and how our minds and imaginations are either engaged or disrupted by changes made. As much as I will be glad once TFP settles on one system forever I also will miss the changes and how they affect how I and others play. Like it or hate it the last five years have been fascinating to be able to witness.

[Thorne]

Oh sh** he IS a masochist.

[Jugginator]

This is what I find interesting as well. It really is amazing how differently designed systems will affect different people and how our minds and imaginations are either engaged or disrupted by changes made. (...) Like it or hate it the last five years have been fascinating to be able to witness.

 

I certainly agree there, it's been intriguing to see all the changes/reactions.

[dishmal]

Killing zombies gets boring eventually. You'll be thinking, aww man horde night again? Gotta prepare again!.

 

This cracks me up. Literally the name of the game. If you don't want to fight zombies every 7 days, go play minecraft. The game has ALWAYS been about building, defending, rebuilding. You people are amusing as hell to read. You shouldn't be able to hide, you should have to defend. Skills need more balancing, obviously, but the game is finally a real survival game.

[Roland]

I'm worried.

 

I'm not worried for myself because I'm satisfied that I'm able to understand my own position and your position. I comprehend that some people hate the beginning of the game because they hate sucking and that others enjoy the beginning of the game regardless of the suckiness of their starting character. This is because I honestly get that not everybody is secretly me in a different skin. When you make statements like "No one enjoys the early stages enough to linger in them once they've experienced what it is to be leveled up", it really makes it seem like you can't see beyond your own views. That is worrisome.

[Roland]

Oh sh** he IS a masochist.

 

I am a masochist for early access that is true. I'm in no rush to have development end.

[FileMachete]

It is a generalization to be sure but at least in these forums I would say it is more than some. At least the most vitriolic and passionate voices will usually include something in their argument to name the early game “a boring tedious slog” or that it takes too long to get to a reasonably functional character, or that the system forces them to hunt zombies for the first several days.

 

I would love to get some other examples for why someone feels literally forced to hunt zombies for the first few days if it is NOT because they wish to level up quickly to spend points and rush past the beginning capabilities of their character? I’m not talking about people who want to kill zombies because that is what they think is fun, I’m talking about people who admit it isn’t the most fun thing but alas they MUST do it because reasons.

 

I’ve stated what I think those reasons are so what are other reasons if it isn’t to quickly level up. And then for those of you seeking to level up as quickly as possible why is it you wish to do that if it isn’t to get out of the primitive stage of the game because of how tedious and boring you find it?

 

If my generalization is way off let’s have all who I’ve maligned with my straw man speak up.

 

I've read this six times and I'm still not sure what's happening... 0_o

 

Roland, you are almost always a very effective writer, far better than I, but this one? Honestly, "ouch me brain hurts"

 

It seems that you're asking for more reasons than you detail as to why folks are rushing through the early-aka-primitive game stage?

 

I'll try, but I'm not sure if I'm even in the ballpark, heh.

 

Very early game I'm trying to survive, and improve my chances of doing so.

So I'd like to make a safe-ish base to be able to protect my stuffs, hide & heal, hopefully be able to do something during the night.

Procure safe food & water.

Gather useful gear. Looting is RNG. Crafting is a known.

Plan ahead for horde night, so gather materials for building.

 

There is a fixed countdown timer, the 7 day horde, that all of these activities must factor in.

 

So time management is important. Multitasking is a good thing. Loot birdnests while out hunting for meat. Craft more arrows as you gather feathers. Be smart and dig clay during the day and mine stone at night, and craft cobblestone while mining.

 

With the animal spawn mechanic you can't expect to bag a hog or deer in the same area every day. So you need to go further afield. Travel time takes time, leaving less for other chores.

 

I can't make seeds without spending a point. I can't plant those seeds without some crazy good RNG luck (I haven't looted a single hoe in all of a17), or having to spend a point to enable crafting of iron tools. Which is lvl-20, so no early gardens, and a fair amount of leveling required.

 

Any leveling up you do will increase gamestage, making the primary adversary tougher. And more numerous in hordes.

 

From my point of view every single mechanic in a17 is either encouraging, pushing or requiring me to level up. Except one; gamestage increase.

 

At the moment, to me, the very early games singular 'reward' is being done with it.

I have read scattered dev posts and it looks like a number of bits are getting tweaked. Which is very welcome news.

 

If at some point we're born into the world with a few basic skills (gardening, basic campfire cooking without a pot), or a method of gaining them that isn't leveling is introduced, travel isn't an exercise in frustration, then I'll gladly take the time to stop & smell the flowers a bit.

 

Yet after all of this writing I don't think I've said anything you didn't already cover as to reasons.

Guess all I can add is that I'm kinda-sorta trying to -not- level. Hit lvl-40 day 19, on 90-min days, so ~30 hours in. I really wanted the Concrete Mixer.

[Roland]

I've read this six times and I'm still not sure what's happening... 0_o

 

Roland, you are almost always a very effective writer, far better than I, but this one? Honestly, "ouch me brain hurts"

 

It seems that you're asking for more reasons than you detail as to why folks are rushing through the early-aka-primitive game stage?

 

I'll try, but I'm not sure if I'm even in the ballpark, heh.

 

Sorry to have let you down

 

Very early game I'm trying to survive, and improve my chances of doing so.

So I'd like to make a safe-ish base to be able to protect my stuffs, hide & heal, hopefully be able to do something during the night.

Procure safe food & water.

Gather useful gear. Looting is RNG. Crafting is a known.

Plan ahead for horde night, so gather materials for building.

 

None of this requires you to spend any points in order to get it done for the very first 7 day horde. You will, of course, gain points as you go about accomplishing these objectives and certainly spend them to improve in areas you wish but you could hold onto those points and do just fine for first blood moon. Everything you mentioned was done before there ever were experience or skill points to spend. Yes, we were more capable by default back then but not very much more so. And I'm not saying that you shouldn't spend points, I'm just saying there is nothing that forces you to go out and only kill zombies for 2-3 days as quickly as you can to gain as many points as you can in order to be ready for Day 7.

 

There is a fixed countdown timer, the 7 day horde, that all of these activities must factor in.

 

Let's be real. It's really a 14 day countdown timer because bloodmoon 1 doesn't really count does it and if you are playing 90 minute days and not afraid to go out and do some boulder mining and tree chopping at night then by golly that is one timer with pleeeeeeenty of time.

 

So time management is important. Multitasking is a good thing. Loot birdnests while out hunting for meat. Craft more arrows as you gather feathers. Be smart and dig clay during the day and mine stone at night, and craft cobblestone while mining.

 

Not a single one of these activities require points to be spent.

 

With the animal spawn mechanic you can't expect to bag a hog or deer in the same area every day. So you need to go further afield. Travel time takes time, leaving less for other chores.

 

Yes travel takes time but it doesn't require points. Plus as you said as you travel you will find nests and harvest rocks and wood while out hunting for animals and new POI's that might have that more-precious-than-pearls iron pot.

 

I can't make seeds without spending a point. I can't plant those seeds without some crazy good RNG luck (I haven't looted a single hoe in all of a17), or having to spend a point to enable crafting of iron tools. Which is lvl-20, so no early gardens, and a fair amount of leveling required.

 

Is tilled soil still a requirement? There was talk about it not being a requirement any longer but I haven't tested planting on regular soil. Making seeds do cost a point but you get four from doing the starter quest and if early gardens is important to you then one of those four can go on this. As you can tell I haven't planted a garden yet myself and yet I never am suffering for food. Worst case scenario I buy food from the trader. But you are correct (unless you're mistaken about tilled soil being a requirement) that early gardens are super tough now.

 

Any leveling up you do will increase gamestage, making the primary adversary tougher. And more numerous in hordes.

 

From my point of view every single mechanic in a17 is either encouraging, pushing or requiring me to level up. Except one; gamestage increase.

 

Encouraging you and pushing you I can agree with and depending on the personality and preferences of each individual that pushing and encouraging will feel more or less. But REQUIRING? nope. We will have to agree to disagree on that. But I do understand that not everyone is the same as me and will strongly desire to level up quickly for the reasons you stated.

 

At the moment, to me, the very early games singular 'reward' is being done with it.

I have read scattered dev posts and it looks like a number of bits are getting tweaked. Which is very welcome news.

 

If at some point we're born into the world with a few basic skills (gardening, basic campfire cooking without a pot), or a method of gaining them that isn't leveling is introduced, travel isn't an exercise in frustration, then I'll gladly take the time to stop & smell the flowers a bit.

 

Yet after all of this writing I don't think I've said anything you didn't already cover as to reasons.

Guess all I can add is that I'm kinda-sorta trying to -not- level. Hit lvl-40 day 19, on 90-min days, so ~30 hours in. I really wanted the Concrete Mixer.

 

Early game rewards to me are surviving in a world in which I am extremely vulnerable and my survival is tenuous. One wrong move or bad misjudgement WILL mean my death. Once I get to the point that if I make a tactical error it doesn't matter because between my armor, my stack of medkits, my AK-47, and my 150+ health that error isn't going to get me killed. It's just going to use up one of my many medkits.

[crazyduck]

Right. And do you know what the Enraged do when I post information I know from the devs? They attack me and say that I am shilling, and being a yes man, and making proclamations with my inflated ego, and bullying...etc.

 

Someone: The new AI sucks. It is so easily exploited. The zombies always know right where you are. I'm going to uninstall this until it gets returned to the way it was in A16.

 

Roland: The new AI is just the first version. It is not the intended final product. faatal has plans to make it better. The developers are aware of the exploits and the issues and they are working on solutions.

 

Someone: You just have to say that stuff Roland as a company man! How far up TFP's ass is your head these days?!?! Why do you have to dictate to us and stifle criticism so much?!?!??!! Stop telling me to shutup and go away!!!!!!

 

Nobody asks questions when they are livid. They just make accusations and leap to wild conspiracies and they don't want to hear actual real information from the developers. They just want to hear that they are going to get their way.

 

Roland, sure there will always such someones as you describe in your Post.

But to be honest if a First AI Version is added and is such a big exploit as it currently is why it was already added ? Sure its Alpha its Early Access i know it, but if something is only one big Exploit like the current AI and can only work with "Godlike" powers as the current AI why not keep it more into Closed Alpha make it work better and then put it into the Open Alpha Release?

Cause i dont think the Devs did not know before the AI has so many Issues , if the Game is played and Testet from Devs and QA People then its hard to believe no one did see this Issues before.

 

And other thing with Questions , i asked many Questions in different threads and not one really not one was Answered. As example i asked Madmole after he told me to give Examples and told me i shoudl mod it if i dont like it why i cant add a Custom Item Description to something or why Localization.txt is not shared by Server cause both would be needed to really Modifiy the Game and at same time keep it User Friendly. Answer was hmm nothing, in other Threads i also asked and not answers. Last Answer i got was from a PM i wrote to Alloc and his answer was that there is currently no Modding Support for Localiziation File.

 

So i ask you now the Same possible you answer to this Question

How should i mod the Game like adding back Recipe Books if i have no Option to add a Description to the new Items so the Users know what this Book or Item does? Cause there is no CustomDescr Paramter for Items.xml or Blocks.xml. Possible you know a Answer to this Question.

[Kage848]

I'm not worried for myself because I'm satisfied that I'm able to understand my own position and your position. I comprehend that some people hate the beginning of the game because they hate sucking and that others enjoy the beginning of the game regardless of the suckiness of their starting character. This is because I honestly get that not everybody is secretly me in a different skin. When you make statements like "No one enjoys the early stages enough to linger in them once they've experienced what it is to be leveled up", it really makes it seem like you can't see beyond your own views. That is worrisome.

 

Help me understand. Why would anyone want to prolong the early game? Why avoid leveling? Why beat on boulders with a stone axe, getting virtually no exp, and 1 piece of iron every 4 hits? Its not challaging and its certainly not fun.

 

Help me roland because this is just foreign to me.

[Bluebella]

Help me understand. Why would anyone want to prolong the early game? Why avoid leveling? Why beat on boulders with a stone axe, getting virtually no exp, and 1 piece of iron every 4 hits? Its not challaging and its certainly not fun.

 

Help me roland because this is just foreign to me.

 

The problem isn't the early game itself but rather the balance and flow of it. For example take Subnautica as an example of a game which balances the progression to keep it both enjoyable early on whilst still encouraging you to push further into the game. In the beginning you have limited oxygen to explore yet the areas you explore are shallow so it doesn't actually gimp you too much. The rest of the game's mechanics are introduced at a reasonable pace so you never get too bored grinding or exploring.

 

When I first tried the alpha 17 (I didn't enjoy 16 for the record as I found it too easy and bland), I had some of the most fun in the game during the first days trying to defend my position in a POI with my limited skills and resources. I feel they wanted to make players make better use of the material progression - wood/cobblestone/concrete/steel - but even I found myself instinctively trying to find concrete from day one as I knew it would be easier to upgrade in the long run - so I think it's hard to avoid the fact that most people will be compelled to find the quickest route to progress, often side-stepping part of the content in the process (especially on multiple play-throughs).

 

I think where TFPs have made a miss-step is with relying too heavily on the stamina system to control the speed of the game when they actually have a lot of scope to add content and progression via looting, POIs, questing and other mechanics. For example adding rare decor items, item/vehicle skins, and lots of special recipes would help keep looting compelling.

 

I think they really have a great foundation here to add lot's of enjoyable content and "progression" without making the game feel sluggish or grindy.

[Ornias]

This is what I find interesting as well. It really is amazing how differently designed systems will affect different people and how our minds and imaginations are either engaged or disrupted by changes made. As much as I will be glad once TFP settles on one system forever I also will miss the changes and how they affect how I and others play. Like it or hate it the last five years have been fascinating to be able to witness.

 

I agree with TFP settling on one system and going gold. That would allow the modders to create mods for many different playstyles. Patch in the NPC bandits and call it please.

[WolfyBlah]

People call the early game a tedious boring slog because thats what it is. Levelig systems and XP are specificly designed for people to dump time into.

 

Not everyone enjoys using ♥♥♥♥ tools and weapons, the shorter ammount of time you force people to watch a block HP tick down by tiny ammounts the better because as it turns out, when an activity takes longer than it should that is he very definition of tedium. Thats whats 7days early game is, the exact same as the late game but you are nerfed to do little damage, have no stamina and heavily limited in what you can craft.

 

People will always rush through XP systems because they dont like wastig time watching an XP bar tick up.

 

As far as how roland is treated on these forums... hes arrogantand condecending and brings it on himself.

I rember reading one of his responses a while back:

 

Did that feel good. You feeling a bit higher now because you made Joel out to be a bit lower? I hope so because this statement has nothing to to do with the topic so it would be nice if it serv some sort of purpose for you.

 

Now what the person he was speaking to said was this:

 

Ehhhh.... maybe get someone who isn't Joel to make the dev videos then? Because watching him, it's easier to believe that the devs don't even know HOW to play the game, let alone that they love all the stages.

 

So yeah roland, if you want people to be nicer to you dont treat them like ♥♥♥♥, in the example above someone made a valid critisim that you took as a personal attack.

[WolfyBlah]

Sorry to have let you down

 

 

 

None of this requires you to spend any points in order to get it done for the very first 7 day horde. You will, of course, gain points as you go about accomplishing these objectives and certainly spend them to improve in areas you wish but you could hold onto those points and do just fine for first blood moon. Everything you mentioned was done before there ever were experience or skill points to spend. Yes, we were more capable by default back then but not very much more so. And I'm not saying that you shouldn't spend points, I'm just saying there is nothing that forces you to go out and only kill zombies for 2-3 days as quickly as you can to gain as many points as you can in order to be ready for Day 7.

 

 

 

Let's be real. It's really a 14 day countdown timer because bloodmoon 1 doesn't really count does it and if you are playing 90 minute days and not afraid to go out and do some boulder mining and tree chopping at night then by golly that is one timer with pleeeeeeenty of time.

 

 

 

Not a single one of these activities require points to be spent.

 

 

 

Yes travel takes time but it doesn't require points. Plus as you said as you travel you will find nests and harvest rocks and wood while out hunting for animals and new POI's that might have that more-precious-than-pearls iron pot.

 

 

 

Is tilled soil still a requirement? There was talk about it not being a requirement any longer but I haven't tested planting on regular soil. Making seeds do cost a point but you get four from doing the starter quest and if early gardens is important to you then one of those four can go on this. As you can tell I haven't planted a garden yet myself and yet I never am suffering for food. Worst case scenario I buy food from the trader. But you are correct (unless you're mistaken about tilled soil being a requirement) that early gardens are super tough now.

 

 

 

Encouraging you and pushing you I can agree with and depending on the personality and preferences of each individual that pushing and encouraging will feel more or less. But REQUIRING? nope. We will have to agree to disagree on that. But I do understand that not everyone is the same as me and will strongly desire to level up quickly for the reasons you stated.

 

 

 

Early game rewards to me are surviving in a world in which I am extremely vulnerable and my survival is tenuous. One wrong move or bad misjudgement WILL mean my death. Once I get to the point that if I make a tactical error it doesn't matter because between my armor, my stack of medkits, my AK-47, and my 150+ health that error isn't going to get me killed. It's just going to use up one of my many medkits.

 

None of this requires points my ass.

Nobody wants to mine without minig skills. Nobody wants to carry ♥♥♥♥k all in thier inventory.

Can you mine without spendig points? Sure if you are mentality deficient. Any sane person who wants to mine is going to put points into it because its not balanced to be fun if you dont, choice is

A) spend 10x the resource (time) for a fraction of the item yield

B) Spend points so mining isnt a ♥♥♥♥ing chore.

Thats not a choice anyone it thier right mind is going to choose the former in.

 

You are REQUIRED TO LEVEL to unlock crafting recipes.

 

There is nothing forcing you to grind XP. Just your nerfed stats and slow speed. Oh and if you want to craft a forge, or steel, and be able to boil a bloody egg.

Iv already made a list of the skils that are mandatory for my enjoyment of the game, without them the game is not enjoyable.

-motherload (all +harvest skills)

-pack mule

-stamina

-all crafting recipes.

[quyxkh]

Wow, it's so amazing to me that people think so differently. I never used to think about XP, or felt driven to do anything to increase it in previous Alphas. I just played - of course I got a little kick when I would see I had inadvertently leveled up my athletics / scavenging / pistol skills or whatever, but I wasn't trying, I was just enjoying myself.

 

Now though...way different story. The level and skill gates keep me from actually playing the game

 

Huh? Get through the early game once and save-scum for it if you want, I've done lots of exploring different week-1 playthroughs for fun, finding the perfect startup perks for me, figuring out what's always needed, what's situational, what to save for later. The early game is interesting and fun all on its own as you get your bearings, but yeah, I've kept a baseline save squirreled away.

 

I do think in SP there's a minimal set that should maybe be suggested at the easier levels, maybe even the default level, somebody's going to have to do a lot of mining and chopping and a good bit of zombie-killing on any team and if that's you, then you're going to want str 3 s.tyr 2 right from the start. That latter name is sure attention-getting, but I'm not sure it has the intended effect, I avoided it because it looked like it was a meant to attract little boys, it took a while to realize my mistake.

 

Again for somebody on the team, that's you in SP, two points in 69er and one in chef seem to me to be more or less indispensable as next steps, you're going to be doing a lot of bashing doors and walls and rocks and trees, and there's really not enough scrounge-able food around to do without bacon and eggs for very long. But I'm not as sure of this as I am of the first four picks, I can imagine someone going the pure ranger route, sticking close to water, hunting and following the rivers and doing just fine with charred meat and wicked archer skills, though I don't know how you'd survive horde night in the open if you get unlucky with the weather.

 

And everything after that's purely situational or playstyle choice. You don't need cardio if you're setting up someplace like Diersville where everything's close, you don't need healing factor early once you learn to watch your back, you don't need pack mule once you get some discipline, you can boost perception/headshot to make sleeper-sniping your main squeeze or go straight for mother lode if you're building a base from scratch or boost the strength and 69er some more if you want to graduate from t.rex to godzilla, the game tells you over and over how to attract as many zombies as you want, it's (surprise!) "make a lot of fire and noise".

 

, so I find myself specifically concentrating on leveling up so that I can unlock the things I really want to do, or more precisely how I want to be.

 

If you don't want to do home invasions and mass zombie slaughter for early progression, either do it once and save scum or turn on creative mode and giveselfxp 10000 from the F1 console until you're where you want to be, it's easy.

 

In A17, I keep thinking to myself: "Why is my character such a f*cking spaz?" What adult doesn't know how to boil an egg? What person gets food poisoning from literally everything? What person becomes almost incapacitated from a skipped meal or two? My whole game focus now is to earn XP so I can buy points in different areas to eventually get my player to resemble a normal functioning human being...so that THEN I can actually start playing.

 

Early game's the tutorial level, you learn how things work by making obvious choices. Yeah: you do the tutorial, then start playing. This is unusual? If you're repeating the early game a lot and not voluntarily, then there's something left for you to learn there, because it's not hard once you get it. It turns out there's choices to be made even that early, though, like, where to set up shop, and whether to focus on trader quests or self-direct. Me, I don't like the trader quests so much, I see people talking about slamming straight for barter skills to get the top gear fast but meh. Is there loot you can only get that way? I'd be sad if it turns out that's the only reliable way to get schematics. But there's some pretty damn sweet set-piece loot out there.