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[A17 Feedback From Twitch Streamer]


Vechs

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Just streamed some A17 experimental today.

 

Mostly positive feelings towards Alpha 17 from my time streaming it! I do have some feedback:

 

1) When you click while swinging a weapon, it will make you swing it again and you can't stop it. Please PLEASE don't accept weapon swing requests during the swing animation, because if you accidentally click during a swing, you will swing again and probably waste stamina, not be aimed correctly, miss, and waste a swing cooldown in addition to the stamina. This drove me frickin crazy while fighting.

 

2) Please cut the level requirements for the skills in half. Because you can't really rush any particular skill, you are forced to spend your points out over a lot of different ones, and that makes it so that you can't really specialize in something. It was frustrating looking at the cool abilities that kicked in at 3rd rank of many skills, but knowing it would be a very long time until I hit high enough level to use ANY of them, due to the level requirements.

 

2a) Edit: My complaint about the skill level-gating is not that it exist, but just that it's quite severe. Like I said, cut it in half or something. The issue is that if I play in a group of people, all of us are forced to spread out our points, because nobody can focus on leveling up one thing. I thought that was the entire point of how they've set this up, that you have an RPG experience, so you have a tank guy, a ranged guy, a crafting and traps guy, a builder, etc.

 

But because we are level-gated so severely, there won't be any impactful specialization. Instead, we'll just have everyone having all the skills late game.

 

3) I did a Clear Out Zombies quest, and it bugged. I couldn't turn the quest in.

 

4) The graphics look great. Love the new lightning engine. Good job guys.

 

5) I killed 60 zombies and got 1 loot bag. A lot of viewers in chat were not happy about the lack of loot from zombies, I tried to tell them the zombies drop loot bags now, but 1 out of 60 was pretty lame.

 

6) The semi-restricted inventory spaces are kind of a pain. I would rather see the STR tree get a 2nd inventory page at rank 7+ or something rather than have these restricted spaces. Nobody would miss them if they were gone.

 

That's all for now! Thank you guys so much for your hard work, I hope Alpha 17 brings in a lot of players

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7) Trying a Random Gen world this time. Either you removed the Find a Trader quest from putting a marker on the nearest trader, or there actually isn't a trader anywhere in the world. If it's the first, umm... that's pretty annoying to just have to wander around aimlessly before finding a trader, with the tutorial quest unable to be completed quickly, so please fix that. If it's the second, well, I found a bug, please fix that :)

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2) Please cut the level requirements for the skills in half. Because you can't really rush any particular skill, you are forced to spend your points out over a lot of different ones, and that makes it so that you can't really specialize in something. It was frustrating looking at the cool abilities that kicked in at 3rd rank of many skills, but knowing it would be a very long time until I hit high enough level to use ANY of them, due to the level requirements.

 

OH DEAR GOD!!!

It is worse then even I feared... and I was declared fearmonger...

 

What were they thinking... levelgating was one of the most hated features of A16... and now they thought "huh what do we need more of... LEVELGATING!!! Thats it! Players just hated it, because it wasn't levelgated ENOUGH!!

 

Why tfps... If you want me to continue to play A16, just tell me... don't do this where you give me nice graphics but crap all over the gameplay :'(

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OH DEAR GOD!!!

It is worse then even I feared... and I was declared fearmonger...

 

What were they thinking... levelgating was one of the most hated features of A16... and now they thought "huh what do we need more of... LEVELGATING!!! Thats it! Players just hated it, because it wasn't levelgated ENOUGH!!

 

Why tfps... If you want me to continue to play A16, just tell me... don't do this where you give me nice graphics but crap all over the gameplay :'(

 

Come on Vik.

 

At least PLAY the game first....

 

naI988g.gif

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Come on Vik.

 

At least PLAY the game first....

 

naI988g.gif

 

 

 

No. A bad concept is a bad concept, no matter how well integrated it is... (it doesnt seem very well integrated from what I've seen but even if it was)

 

But I wont repeat myself... its just scary that they actually went with levelgating as a "better" option instead of fixing a broken but immersive and innovative system. I just hope they bring it back some day... even though i doubt it... :(

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It does prevent rushing through the early progression. Those who don't like playing as a weak character for very long won't be happy and if you want to specialize in just one area then you will have to save points rather than spend them.

 

But what about my freedom to skip the early game? ;)

 

*puts the mirror down*

I mean I do like the early game... I just don't want to grind levels... and yes there is a difference between training skills and raising your level. And while it was possible in A16 to grind and get some reward... it sounds like its a mandetory thing to do, if you want to survive on the hardest difficulties.

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My complaint about the skill level-gating is not that it exist, but just that it's quite severe. Like I said, cut it in half or something. The issue is that if I play in a group of people, all of us are forced to spread out our points, because nobody can focus on leveling up one thing. I thought that was the entire point of how they've set this up, that you have an RPG experience, so you have a tank guy, a ranged guy, a crafting and traps guy, a builder, etc.

 

But because we are level-gated so severely, there won't be any impactful specialization. Instead, we'll just have everyone having all the skills late game.

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Personally, I want the early game to last more (and especially the mid game), because so much is skipped by players having end-game materials/tools/etc so early that it seems like a huge waste of content. But I would prefer if essential perks were gated by exploration or something else other than grinding to get levels. As for the rest, I don't know if gating harms specialization but I guess it's a matter of fine-tuning.

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As long as I heard, was Fataal responsible for the AI?

My personal congratulations to you and everyone who worked on the pathfinding. Awesome. Really good Job.

Didn't expected this after so many years of AI-Disappointment.

 

AI and Pathfinding was the most important thing for me.

Overall the best Alpha I have ever seen since A8.

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OH DEAR GOD!!!

It is worse then even I feared... and I was declared fearmonger...

 

What were they thinking... levelgating was one of the most hated features of A16... and now they thought "huh what do we need more of... LEVELGATING!!! Thats it! Players just hated it, because it wasn't levelgated ENOUGH!!

 

Why tfps... If you want me to continue to play A16, just tell me... don't do this where you give me nice graphics but crap all over the gameplay :'(

 

I say leave them as they are, you'll get used to it, stop whining that you need everything right away. Try using the trader more. I play mods where you don't get iron tools till 50 and steel till 90 or 100 in a16. However you can use the trader and a workbench to use iron or steel tools long before then. I hope they don't change them. Concrete by day 5 on 60 min days (or less) was kinda stupid.

 

I seen some streamers whining over having to wait till lv 20 for forge.. I am like: "You do know you can find forges in quite a few poi's right? try using them."

 

Please TFP: don't change the lv requirements for the skills, let people mod it if they want to. All I see is people whining because they still want baby mode. In Vanilla 7dtd a16 I am bored by lv 50, because I have steel tools already and can craft anything better than i'd ever find in the world, other than buying off trader of course.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I think the points and abilities doesn’t need to be change. I think it’s balaced.

 

I agree as I've said already. People are just used to how much of a joke a16 is. They'll get used to a17 eventually. Remember a17 is bascally a entirely new game with how much was overhauled.

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I seen some streamers whining over having to wait till lv 20 for forge.. I am like: "You do know you can find forges in quite a few poi's right? try using them."

 

Please TFP: don't change the lv requirements for the skills, let people mod it if they want to. All I see is people whining because they still want baby mode. In Vanilla 7dtd a16 I am bored by lv 50, because I have steel tools already and can craft anything better than i'd ever find in the world, other than buying off trader of course.

 

 

Forge is a basic thing. Yes you can find it, but you also have to find a poi that is in an area that you like, which has access to the city and a trader if possible.

 

And its not about it beeing "easy". I already always played on the hardest difficulties in A16 (except lootabundance and respawn), but this isn't about difficulty. Its about grinding. Now the first 5 days will be simply killing zombies for xp. YAY FUN. After that I can start building a base...

 

 

Levelgating only does one thing: it forces you to grind levels instead of doing things you want to do, because without the levels you cant do them(or only less efficiently).

I have never heard anyone with any experience in gamedevelopment say "levelgating is a good thing." They mostly say "it is a possibility if other options cost too many ressources" It does the job of making it harder for the player... but only in the way that he has to counteract the levelgating by farming.

 

You know what WOULD be better?

Timegating.

Unlock forge after your first 72ingame hours

Unlock 'xxx' after 'xx' ingame hours.

 

10x better system. Yes you can unlock stuff by standing around, but standing around does:

raise gamestage

drain food/water

not give you any ressources whatsoever

 

 

But I guess they dislike it, because you can unlock it without doing anything... Ive heard too many insane things from TFPs to not see that they might actually give me this reason :D

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Forge is a basic thing. Yes you can find it, but you also have to find a poi that is in an area that you like, which has access to the city and a trader if possible.

 

And its not about it beeing "easy". I already always played on the hardest difficulties in A16 (except lootabundance and respawn), but this isn't about difficulty. Its about grinding. Now the first 5 days will be simply killing zombies for xp. YAY FUN. After that I can start building a base...

 

Maybe you're just really good at grinding, but I feel like it would take less time to walk a mile or so to a trader every once in a while than it would be kill 20 levels worth of zombies. Yes, it's going to be irritating, but seriously, inconvenience is part of survival games.

 

Besides, you can craft forges earlier in the game for a short time if you find a forge magazine.

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My complaint about the skill level-gating is not that it exist, but just that it's quite severe. Like I said, cut it in half or something. The issue is that if I play in a group of people, all of us are forced to spread out our points, because nobody can focus on leveling up one thing. I thought that was the entire point of how they've set this up, that you have an RPG experience, so you have a tank guy, a ranged guy, a crafting and traps guy, a builder, etc.

 

But because we are level-gated so severely, there won't be any impactful specialization. Instead, we'll just have everyone having all the skills late game.

 

Cutting it in half takes us back to square one. You hit end game in half the time. I think the change is fantastic, it will keep people guessing and promote a longer game world.

 

I mean you will get there. You just wont get there in 5 days and thats a change that can only be positive for the overall gaming experience.

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I say leave them as they are, you'll get used to it, stop whining that you need everything right away. Try using the trader more. I play mods where you don't get iron tools till 50 and steel till 90 or 100 in a16. However you can use the trader and a workbench to use iron or steel tools long before then. I hope they don't change them. Concrete by day 5 on 60 min days (or less) was kinda stupid.

 

I seen some streamers whining over having to wait till lv 20 for forge.. I am like: "You do know you can find forges in quite a few poi's right? try using them."

 

Please TFP: don't change the lv requirements for the skills, let people mod it if they want to. All I see is people whining because they still want baby mode. In Vanilla 7dtd a16 I am bored by lv 50, because I have steel tools already and can craft anything better than i'd ever find in the world, other than buying off trader of course.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

I agree as I've said already. People are just used to how much of a joke a16 is. They'll get used to a17 eventually. Remember a17 is bascally a entirely new game with how much was overhauled.

 

This.

 

Its amazing to me how many people are complaining. These are the same people who play new mods every week because they get bored. Isnt the point to WANT to play your game world for more than 2 weeks or a month?

 

And the amount of people I am seeing that refuse, outright refuse, to change their play style and then moan under their breath about how things are so different is amazing. Its like people cant THINK outside the box even for a second and then want to blame the game for their failures. After hearing Gazz poke fun at some of this in a stream I am hopeful they can separate the early whining from the actual problems and wont rush to nerf everything.

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...I feel like it would take less time to walk a mile or so to a trader every once in a while than it would be kill 20 levels worth of zombies. Yes, it's going to be irritating, but seriously, inconvenience is part of survival games.

.

 

 

Once they have the beginning quest fixed, [apparently doesn't show Trader anymore... hope that's a bug],

you've now got a Trader on your map.

You can choose to set up near the trader "if" it's got a working forge.

If not... there's always restart. [hehehe]

 

 

 

Cutting it in half takes us back to square one. You hit end game in half the time. I think the change is fantastic, it will keep people guessing and promote a longer game world.

 

I mean you will get there. You just wont get there in 5 days and thats a change that can only be positive for the overall gaming experience.

 

Yeah what's wrong with grinding a little anyway?

 

I played Runescape for seven years.

I've YET to see anything in 7DTD that I would ever consider grinding.

Try doing the same boring activity for 3 months .... just to earn a 16 bit Java cape!

That's grinding!

 

DLlsVAG.gif

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One word, Vik: replayability. If every game goes the exact same way without any need for adaptation to new circumstances then there isn’t much need to replay.

 

Yup. That is also my concern...

 

but on 2nd reading... do you mean that levelgating gives you MORE replayability? Because it seems to me to be the opposite!

Because every game now will start either with you putting points into low level perks, because you cant put more into highlevel perks (because levelgated) so every game you will have about the same skills the first 14-21 days...

OR

you start xp farming day 1 to get the good stuff right away...

 

Thats the only two ones I can see.

 

Replayability would be:

"get book x" (books now make far more sense then back in A...whenever! there could be vending machines in bookstores, traders can sell them AND have them as a questreward!)

"perk 'xx' unlocks, once you have cleared 10 poi's; killed 30 zombies or farmed 30 crops (unlock based on achievements)

 

The levelgate will be the absolute same every game, so there is even LESS replayability.

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