[A17 Feedback From Twitch Streamer]

[Tank]

7) Trying a Random Gen world this time. Either you removed the Find a Trader quest from putting a marker on the nearest trader, or there actually isn't a trader anywhere in the world. If it's the first, umm... that's pretty annoying to just have to wander around aimlessly before finding a trader, with the tutorial quest unable to be completed quickly, so please fix that. If it's the second, well, I found a bug, please fix that

 

If it is the first it's a good thing.

I never liked it that the trader quest directly pointed to the next trader. I prefer to search and find it on my own.

Thus not showing the next trader is much better in my opinion.

 

 

7a) Found a trader, so for sure no quest marker going to it. Took me a long time, even flying around in creative. No way to complete the quest when I finally did find a trader.

 

I would assume they only removed the "show the next trader", but they didn't remove the code of the trader quest that selected the next trader.

In other words you probably found another trader, but this other trader doesn't trigger the "you found the next trader".

[BloodDeacon]

the only thing i dont like so far about a17 siveria is the new combat system it seems way worse

 

How so? Beyond some of the bugs (double-swinging, etc.) that will hopefully be cleared up in due time, it seems much better than it used to be -- melee combat against more than one or two zombies now seems legitimately dangerous, rather than just an affair of "Let me make sure I have enough stamina and clear space behind me while i thump on these guys and back-pedal."

[Chronosphere]

i love how they made leveling alot harder, but lvl 60 for bike? hmmm if zombies dont drop loot that gonna be long road

[Jedo]

but on 2nd reading... do you mean that levelgating gives you MORE replayability? Because it seems to me to be the opposite!

Because every game now will start either with you putting points into low level perks, because you cant put more into highlevel perks (because levelgated) so every game you will have about the same skills the first 14-21 days...

OR

you start xp farming day 1 to get the good stuff right away...

 

The levelgate will be the absolute same every game, so there is even LESS replayability.

 

My comment was meant to indicate that timegating would result in less replayability, so levelgating is at least better than that.

 

Still, I don't see things the way you do. Maybe people figure out how to survive without forges because they don't want to wait for level 20. Because there are so many different paths, it seems unlikely that people would buy the same perks each time. I know that I won't.

 

(I do wish that there were things still gated behind RNG books. I never once found an augur in A15-16, so I just figured it out! The required adaptability was great!)

[ColdGate]

7 Days to Grind.

I feel like this starting exp grind should be must boring game stage in A17.

[meganoth]

Forge is a basic thing. Yes you can find it, but you also have to find a poi that is in an area that you like, which has access to the city and a trader if possible.

 

And its not about it beeing "easy". I already always played on the hardest difficulties in A16 (except lootabundance and respawn), but this isn't about difficulty. Its about grinding. Now the first 5 days will be simply killing zombies for xp. YAY FUN. After that I can start building a base...

 

You always seem so focused on xp that you never seem to play the game. The game is set up so that whatever activity you do (scavenging, mining, building? and yes, killing zombies) you get xp. Do whatever is necessary to stay alive, the xp comes naturally.

 

And you can use the XP for perks that are for the most part optional. And even the ones who are not really optional have alternate sources, for example the forge. And with or without forge there is nothing wrong with building a temporary base for the first weeks with wood and cobblestone (at least in A15 cobblestone was very good for that, in A16 it was too weak, more balancing needed).

 

Since the difficulty curve is heavily linked to your xp progress, you even have a disadvantage if you just focus on xp. Since you presumably level faster that way you will have scavenged/mined less resources at level 20 than someone who focuses on collecting the right equipment, weapons and building materials.

 

I'm not sure I will like this auto-leveling of difficulty (smells like "Oblivion"), but at least it makes xp-grinding a pretty useless task except for people who desperately want to skip the early stages of the game.

 

7 Days to Grind.

I feel like this starting exp grind should be must boring game stage in A17.

 

Perfect example, someone who probably focuses on and sees only xp in the early game and as a result is bored by early game.

 

If you don't know what do do in early stage except level grinding then the game becomes a grinding game for you. Either use a mod or creative menue to skip early game. Or maybe ignore xp for a while and see if you find the fun that others find in early game.

[Laz Man]

I love what I've seen so far. The skill tree has trade offs now. From watching kage848's stream it was interesting to see him struggle in melee combat (warrior difficulty) but then he came to realize it was because he focused solely in the intelligence stat/branch.

 

It makes total sense to me that you should have a harder time in melee compared to someone who focuses on strength/fortitude.

 

Skill choices should have trade offs and now it looks like it does.

 

Super excited really dig into the game come this thanksgiving break.

 

Thank you fun pimps.

[Laz Man]

Forge is a basic thing. Yes you can find it, but you also have to find a poi that is in an area that you like, which has access to the city and a trader if possible.

 

And its not about it beeing "easy". I already always played on the hardest difficulties in A16 (except lootabundance and respawn), but this isn't about difficulty. Its about grinding. Now the first 5 days will be simply killing zombies for xp. YAY FUN. After that I can start building a base...

 

 

Levelgating only does one thing: it forces you to grind levels instead of doing things you want to do, because without the levels you cant do them(or only less efficiently).

I have never heard anyone with any experience in gamedevelopment say "levelgating is a good thing." They mostly say "it is a possibility if other options cost too many ressources" It does the job of making it harder for the player... but only in the way that he has to counteract the levelgating by farming.

 

You know what WOULD be better?

Timegating.

Unlock forge after your first 72ingame hours

Unlock 'xxx' after 'xx' ingame hours.

 

10x better system. Yes you can unlock stuff by standing around, but standing around does:

raise gamestage

drain food/water

not give you any ressources whatsoever

 

 

But I guess they dislike it, because you can unlock it without doing anything... Ive heard too many insane things from TFPs to not see that they might actually give me this reason

 

Change is tough, especially when it effects the ways you have enjoyed the game previosuly.

 

I challenge you to approach the game differently than previous alphas and see if you can adapt.

 

Half the fun is figuring it out isn't it?

[MacTX]

I watched Gage's stream and the impression I got was that they wanted players to do more scavenging, more fighting zombies and less base building early on, as if it were a zombie apocalypse. It would explain why a lot of what used to be basic skills are now locked away until much higher player levels.

 

Having said that, what doesn't seem to make sense if that was the intention is the inventory slots. In A16, you start out with 32 slots while in A17 it's 18 slots with slots 19 through 45 available but highly penalized. Sure, you have more slots totally, but overall, they're much less useful. Before, in A16, it was difficult enough to go on a scavenging outing for any length of time before having to return to base. With the default of just 18 slots now, it makes scavenging more useless than before especially if base building is being discouraged early on.

[ColdGate]

Perfect example, someone who probably focuses on and sees only xp in the early game and as a result is bored by early game.

 

If you don't know what do do in early stage except level grinding then the game becomes a grinding game for you. Either use a mod or creative menue to skip early game. Or maybe ignore xp for a while and see if you find the fun that others find in early game.

 

I know what I may do in early game, with A15 and A16 I played 20+ servers for each alpha, and after all early game just become routine. Some kind of preparing to main game. With new alpha it should be fun play early game few times, but in A16 all I need to start playing normal game was level 20-25. And in same time when levelling, I make other preparations, so time looks balanced. Now , in A17 I noticed that I must got level 50 before "grinding tutorial" ends.

[LuckyStar]

Change is tough, especially when it effects the ways you have enjoyed the game previosuly.

 

I challenge you to approach the game differently than previous alphas and see if you can adapt.

 

Half the fun is figuring it out isn't it?

 

Yeah I like that attitude.

 

It's going to be fun feeling like a noob again and being scared of zombies.

Can't wait!

[Vechs]

9) Some of the core gameplay loops are broken. I assume TFP intended this, otherwise they've made some bad oversights. I am very curious what they think the most common loops will be now in A17. I would really like to see an unedited LP from someone on TFP staff, just to see how they are playing the game.

[Poojam]

It does prevent rushing through the early progression. Those who don't like playing as a weak character for very long won't be happy and if you want to specialize in just one area then you will have to save points rather than spend them.

 

Yep. I lasted about an hour. It's reallllly slow. Combined with the enormous level gates (Auger @ Lvl 100), I think I would rather have toothpicks inserted under my fingernails than play A17.

 

I hate Oblivion, Elder Scrolls, Skyrim, and anything Bethesda. It all makes sense now, because apparently it's heavily modelled after them.

[giltirn]

How so? Beyond some of the bugs (double-swinging, etc.) that will hopefully be cleared up in due time, it seems much better than it used to be -- melee combat against more than one or two zombies now seems legitimately dangerous, rather than just an affair of "Let me make sure I have enough stamina and clear space behind me while i thump on these guys and back-pedal."

 

I've not found it any harder than before. With a level 1 club I can quite easily down roaming hordes and clear POIs without getting hit. Just gotta time the hit like before and be a bit better with the aim. Walking backwards is still fast enough to stay out of the zombie's reach so with some patience and spatial awareness you can take down any amount of zombies. I fact in 2 hours play earlier I only got hit once and that was when I got cornered by zombies leaping out of cupboards and from an overhead trapdoor (which was pretty cool).

[Roland]

Different strokes for different folks. Hopefully not too difficult to loosen the level gating.

[saulysw]

The focus of the game has changed, and not surprisingly some people don't like this change. The move is away from a quick concrete fort building towards more moment-by-moment survival. Before, looting a POI was fairly trivial, a few head shots here and there and then see what you got. Now you have to fight for every square inch, and running away in failure is a real possibility.

 

I'm yet to play it but I watched some streams and know that I like the way this is headed - but I appreciate those who like the concrete fort style of mid-end game will struggle with this long and hard early game. You may well need to dial back the difficulty a lot compared to A16. This is not a loss of honour! It is effectively a different game, so start again.

 

I can't wait to finish work and fire it up.

 

Edit : It seems to me that also there is a shift more towards melee style of play over stealth/ranged attacks. I prefer the stealth bow myself, so this is not so welcome. Still, I will try and adapt. What is not clear is if the "Boom! Headshot" perk applies to bows as well as guns. I hope so. There is a lot to learn about the best mix of perks and when to take them. That will take at least a few playthroughs, I reckon.

[Aldranon]

It does prevent rushing through the early progression. Those who don't like playing as a weak character for very long won't be happy and if you want to specialize in just one area then you will have to save points rather than spend them.

 

My problem and maybe I'm spoiled, but most people who don't get lucky and find a working forge early on need to think about restarting their game. With me, restarting sucks something from the game (I'll here typing and not playing).

[Xandyr78]

I guess I don't understand what all the grousing is about. Yes, early game is a bit grindy...it is, after all, the apocalypse. How quickly do you think the average Joe would be able to get themselves up and running, survival-wise, once the zombies outnumbered the living?

 

I've only played for a few hours (into day 3 on my RWG game), and I typically get frustrated when a game feels too grindy, or too difficult right out of the gate.

 

However...I am loving A17. Sure, I'm only level 3 (nearing 4!), but I am having an absolute blast. Got dropped into the frozen biome (how's that for a giant F-U from the game?), then had to run my nearly-naked self until I found something more palatable (and survivable---I mean, lumberjacks? Day 1?). Didn't have enough inventory space to carry everything, so I had to be strategic about what I kept (food/water/wellness priority 1, then weapons/armor/clothing, then whatever).

 

I killed a few zombies with some well-placed headshots (and a LOT of random body shots), collected a few of my arrows back (that was nice). Found a small POI outside of a city, cleared it of its 5 zeds (a small, single-room POI with 5 sleepers. I was SO anxious!). Tried to aggro just one at a time...was successful for the first few, then the last two got up and came at me simultaneously, so I was bobbing and weaving and trying to fire off arrows. It was intense, a little manic, and a LOT of fun.

 

Started leveling STR, PER, and INT. I like archery, I enjoy melee when I need to do it, and I am a building aficionado. Can I dive right in and start ANY of that right out the gate? Nope. I have to scrounge, sneak, and scavenge what I can. I have to be mindful of EVERYWHERE I go. I cleared out a Pop-N-Pills on day 2. Took me nearly the entire day, as it was FULL of sleepers (and I'm only playing on Adventurer mode -- I want to get a feel for how it all works together before I ramp up my difficulty), and more than one of them would wake at a time (can't wait 'til I get my Stealth perks up!).

 

There was a lot of running, turning to fire off a shot, clubbing a zed if I needed to, trying to stay behind different objects for cover while my stamina was regenerating...it was an actual challenge, even on just-below-default difficulty.

 

Just my two cents...but I really am enjoying this build. A ton.

[Vechs]

10) On B197 now. It seems TFP have increased the drop rate of special loot. I got 6 bags to drop, where I only got 1 in my early streamer release in b194. This is a very welcome change. I'm not sure what the exact % chance is they went with, but a 3 to 5% drop rate seems about right to me.

 

I really enjoy getting zombie loot less often, but when it does drop, it is much higher quality and more impactful. It's like all the loot drops have been compressed. I appreciate the time saving.

 

This aspect probably warrants a little tweaking on the drop rate to where it feels good for the most amount of people, but the general idea (less frequent drops that are more impactful) is very solid.

 

Good job with this change.

[Vechs]

11) I am not really focused on base building in this b197 playthrough, as all the good options for basebuilding are level-gated. So all I can really do is run around and loot and kill zombies, and grind out quests. This is fun, although it is the only real source of XP.

 

I don't know if TFP intends for more varied playstyles, but I think harvesting, building, and crafting XP might need to be bumped up, because harvesting 7 trees is way more work for the same XP as killing a single zombie. l personally have no issue running around killing zombies for XP, I like fighting. I am concerned, though, that players who want to focus more on other aspects of play won't be able to get enough XP to level up enough to keep up with horde days. As a tester I am trying my best to think about other playstyles, even when something doesn't affect me personally.

[Laz Man]

11) I am not really focused on base building in this b197 playthrough, as all the good options for basebuilding are level-gated. So all I can really do is run around and loot and kill zombies, and grind out quests. This is fun, although it is the only real source of XP.

 

I don't know if TFP intends for more varied playstyles, but I think harvesting, building, and crafting XP might need to be bumped up, because harvesting 7 trees is way more work for the same XP as killing a single zombie. l personally have no issue running around killing zombies for XP, I like fighting. I am concerned, though, that players who want to focus more on other aspects of play won't be able to get enough XP to level up enough to keep up with horde days. As a tester I am trying my best to think about other playstyles, even when something doesn't affect me personally.

 

That's a great observation. The tricky part with Awarding xp for non combat activities is figuring how much is too much. In my opinion zombie killing should be the highest xp sources otherwise game will be 7 days to tree chop....

 

Edit: unless they make tree chopping dangerous again, other wise people will grind trees instead.

 

Edit: XP gain should be balanced with the risk vs reward mentality. Low risk = low xp and vice versa.

[DrTeath]

For point 2 and 2.a . You dont loose points if you save them. Bank those bitches till you can spend them where you want .

 

Its like money man . Just because you cant afford that new pc with what you got from your last paycheck doesnt mean you have to go out and spend it all at the bar . Save that ♥♥♥♥ . And just because the next gen console isnt out yet doesnt mean you cant save for it . Put the cash away , and buy it when it comes out instead of wasting it elsewhere.

[JCrook1028]

11) I am concerned, though, that players who want to focus more on other aspects of play won't be able to get enough XP to level up enough to keep up with horde days. As a tester I am trying my best to think about other playstyles, even when something doesn't affect me personally.

 

To be fair tho. Days don't up the horde strength much, Gamestage does. If you're earning less xp by not killing as much your horde is weaker too.

[Vechs]

12) I've started a server for my Patrons. Acid is too rare. People are leveling way past bicycle before they find enough acid to craft the tires.

[Vomkat]

Come on Vik.

 

At least PLAY the game first....

 

 

this^

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

12) I've started a server for my Patrons. Acid is too rare. People are leveling way past bicycle before they find enough acid to craft the tires.

 

In a real zombie apocalypse, I always find lots of acid, it's a common household commodity. I have no idea why acid would be considered an uncommon commodity. In the last zombie apocalypse, a real one in real life, I crafted tires on the first day.