Destroying the game

[7 days to die fan]

I wanna know how the fun pimps have managed to destroy a already great game? Alpha 16 was the best version of the game. But it seems they make an adjustment to make another adjustment to end with another adjustment, that all counter the first one in the first place. I dont know if the devs are drunk all the time or what. but the process they have made on this game is trash at the least. 

[Riamus]

Another one of these?  How tiresome.  You can keep playing whatever version you prefer.  I quite enjoy the current version, with only a few things I don't much like.

[8_Hussars]

Got to love this fresh take on things...

[Roland]

2 hours ago, 7 days to die fan said:

but the process they have made on this game is trash at the least.

 

You meant "at best" but what you actually wrote was the truer statement...heheh

[SylenThunder]

10 hours ago, 7 days to die fan said:

I wanna know how the fun pimps have managed to destroy a already great game? Alpha 16 was the best version of the game. But it seems they make an adjustment to make another adjustment to end with another adjustment, that all counter the first one in the first place. I dont know if the devs are drunk all the time or what. but the process they have made on this game is trash at the least. 

 

Why to people always focus on Alpha 16?  That was probably one of the absolute buggiest versions that existed. Drive down a road and your minibike would teleport into a hill next to you with you on it. Managing servers was almost a complete nightmare unless you used several API mods to counter a number of the games issues in the world.

It was probably the first version that started taking away most of the survival aspects. Oh wait.. THAT"S why you like it so much. Alpha 16 was basically easy mode with no challenge and infinite food and ammo.

[theFlu]

17 minutes ago, SylenThunder said:

Alpha 16 was basically easy mode with no challenge and infinite food and ammo.

Unlike the current iteration...?

[Suxar]

51 minutes ago, theFlu said:

Unlike the current iteration...?

I can't say about A16 - I haven't played it. But in A17, survival was easier than it is now. There was water everywhere, and empty cans came across regularly. Seeds are eternal, plant once and harvest forever, no need to level up a farmer.

[RipClaw]

1 hour ago, SylenThunder said:

Why to people always focus on Alpha 16?  That was probably one of the absolute buggiest versions that existed.

I didn't really have any particular problems under Linux. The only thing that happened to me was that if the game crashed while I was sitting on the minibike, the minibike reappeared where I had last dismounted after restarting.

 

My reason why I like Alpha 16 so much is that there was still learning by doing and I could build really big bases without having frame drops. From Alpha 17 onwards I had to limit myself to small bases if I didn't want the horde night to become a slide show. And it was also the last time you could mine resources in peace without a screamer bothering you every 5 minutes.

 

[theFlu]

Just now, Suxar said:

But in A17, survival was easier than it is now.

In A22 I dug myself into the ground on D3, with a couple dew collectors. Popping my head out of the ground to do a buried supplies daily, the couple daily chickens/rabbits and random eggs have fed me just fine, digging. I have farm plots 60m deep down, they're purely decorative.

 

Easier? Maybe. Moar Easier Enough to justify the context of "why you guys So Weak to want to go back to the easiest version of the game"? Nah. I ain't arguing difficulty between 1/10 and 1.1/10 ... I'm countertrolling a point without aim.

[Krougal]

Game has never been easier than it is now. It is also so much more an RPG and less a survival game than it has ever been.

 

[warmer]

Right click and download A16 and leave us out of it.

[Vaeliorin]

10 hours ago, SylenThunder said:

Why to people always focus on Alpha 16?  That was probably one of the absolute buggiest versions that existed. Drive down a road and your minibike would teleport into a hill next to you with you on it. Managing servers was almost a complete nightmare unless you used several API mods to counter a number of the games issues in the world.

It was probably the first version that started taking away most of the survival aspects. Oh wait.. THAT"S why you like it so much. Alpha 16 was basically easy mode with no challenge and infinite food and ammo.

Personally, playing single player only, I never found it particularly buggy.

 

Anyway, my preference for A16 is simply that horde nights (and consequently base building) were much more fun because they weren't easily exploitable.  I've said this before (and I'll most likely say it again) but in A16 I loved coming up with base designs, building them, and seeing if they worked.  Since A17, I've had a base not work as intended a total of once, because I was unaware they'd changed the length of the path AI would follow, and thus built my base too large.

 

Horde night has become entirely predictable, and therefore boring.  There's no more trying to find ways to control the zombie's movement, instead you just control it easily.  Now I dream up horde base ideas, and then never bother to build them because I already know if they'll work or not.  That wasn't the case in A16.

 

Also, my favorite mod of all time (Valmar's Overhaul, I really loved how improving your skills was what unlocked more recipes) was for A16, so...I'm a bit biased there.

 

That said, there are changes since A16 that I like, so if I could just have unpredictable zombie AI again, I'd be fairly happy, I imagine.

 

As an aside:  As someone who actually doesn't like survival games particularly, I'd have probably put less than a hundred hours into 7 Days if it was a hardcore survival experience, instead of the thousands I have put in.  I don't mind that kind of thing once in a while, but it's not something I want to play regularly.  I largely bought the game because I was looking for Minecraft with more challenge, and there weren't really any Minecraft mods at the time that made any sort of base defense necessary.

[Javabean867]

Alpha 16.4 was my first experience with the game.  And I absolutely hated it at the beginning.  I was dying constantly and just did not know the systems.  It took forever for me to get used to the game.  I ended up digging tunnels between all of our different bases, leveled up enough to actually survive combat lol.

We had so many bases spread out all over the world it was great.  We also had a good 4-6 people playing together in the world, each of us had our own little mega structures we were building.

That is why i will always love A16.  BUT i prefer Version 1 the most so far.  The loot balance, the crafting, the new armor system.  I would love for a few more weapon types within the same tiers, as well as other vehicles.  other than that i am good.

[slicksister]

Vanilla is for the masses, and appears targeted for the 9-12 year old.  If you want a more challenging 7d2d experience, try some of the overhaul mods.  Last I checked, Ravenhearst mod had a component of learn by doing.  I especially enjoyed its slower character progression thru the skill trees where you really appreciated every advance in the weapon tiers.  Some find it too grindy, but for me the difficulty (more difficult and numerous zombie spawns) and pacing was more immersive and enjoyable.  If you want more complex and tiered crafting, there's Undead Legacy.  Not sure the gameplay is more difficult, but it's got a gorgeous UI and definitely a deeper technology tree and resulting more immersive game experience.  There was also the True Survival mod, much more difficult than vanilla, and much more survival oriented (duh).  But none of them are yet available for release 1.0.  As they're all heavy overhaul mods it takes considerable time to adapt them to each new release.  Hopefully, it's just a matter of time.

 

I'm not a fan of R1.0's fixed trader discovery progression, where Rekt is always in the forrest, Jen in the Burnt biome, Joel in the wasteland, etc. and you have to "discover" them in that order.   Much preferred not knowing who was where and having the trader's "special" mission send you to the next nearest trader as opposed to the next biome in the list order.  If TFP want players to experience all the biomes, a much more natural and interesting way would be to have different items found in different biomes, be it loot, or raw resources, or special ingredients required to build something.  Potentially even better would be quests that advanced some sort of story from one biome to another (to get players to explore all biome types) and not just a single linear story that hits all biomes (which is currently: discover the next trader on this fixed list), but many separate smaller stories that build altogether (in any order) to create the player's full epic adventure.  I suppose that's rather difficult where the only npc's the player interacts with are traders.  But maybe with bandits there'll be a few more twists on the clear/fetch quests that merchants currently offer and with the potential to build more complex gameplay stories.

[Suxar]

8 hours ago, Vaeliorin said:

Anyway, my preference for A16 is simply that horde nights (and consequently base building) were much more fun because they weren't easily exploitable. 

I think it's the other way around. They used to try to run to you in the most direct trajectory. And if they couldn't get to you, they would just stand as close to you as possible and do nothing. Which allowed them to just throw bombs at that bunch. Now they don't stand there, they try to run and break things.

[Vaeliorin]

1 hour ago, Suxar said:

I think it's the other way around. They used to try to run to you in the most direct trajectory. And if they couldn't get to you, they would just stand as close to you as possible and do nothing. Which allowed them to just throw bombs at that bunch. Now they don't stand there, they try to run and break things.

Yes, there were exploits back in A16 as well.  But if you didn't do a stilt base or underground base, it was actually a challenge to try and control the horde.  Now I could do a day 7000 horde with a wooden base if I wanted to, and I wouldn't be in any danger.

[8_Hussars]

4 hours ago, Vaeliorin said:

Yes, there were exploits back in A16 as well.  But if you didn't do a stilt base or underground base, it was actually a challenge to try and control the horde.  Now I could do a day 7000 horde with a wooden base if I wanted to, and I wouldn't be in any danger.

It's still a challenge for many players to control a horde, regardless of the AI version and base design.

At the end of the day its nice players can approach the game, with their favorite alpha, do their favorite things, and leverage their game mechanic knowledge in whatever way.

[bandersnatch]

They took away learn-by-doing and gave us books, which was a huge immersion-killer.  They took away weapon parts and gave us mods, and while I would have preferred both, it was tolerable (although having more slots on higher tier equipment makes no sense).  Then we got magazines, which turned the game into "Mailbox Raider".  They took away clothes.  They took away head items, forcing you to sacrifice a mod slot for your cigar or what-have-you.  Weather barely matters now.  Static defenses are worthless - a concrete log spike lasts about 10 seconds.  You can't even rotate boxes vertically and they don't have the text on every side, either.  We have magical armor sets like every other generic arena shooter.  New T5 instances are terrible..there's no way to solve some of them without tunneling through the place, which takes forever without an auger.  I can't imagine how bad T6 must be.  They made male character faces even more horrible and took away body customization.  Biome and trader progression is on a rail.  Next up will undoubtedly be skins you pay for.  Except for the "tap or hold" options for running, nothing about the game's development is improving.  And now my game controls are f'd up on PC and nothing will fix it, not even full re-installs and repairs.  At this point its obvious that console gamers are all the devs care about.

Edited September 18 by bandersnatch (see edit history)

[moses221]

Which was the one where you broke your leg if you jumped too high or fell off a frame?  That was awesome😁  Seriously, I disliked the LBD system because it made no sense.  You craft 1000 wood clubs and suddenly you are an expert at crafting every type of weapon?  It would be the equivalent of needing a heart surgery and trusting the local podiatrist because he has scraped corns from 1000 patients.

I think I came in around A11 or A12.  Those were fun, but had issues.  Some of the zombie spawns were buggy.  I did like caves.  I like having control of map sizes now way more than the infinite maps.  I have several Alphas backed up and like having the luxury of tickling my nostalgia bone when I want.  The thing I liked most is that by being in Alpha as long as it was, we got a lot of updates.  Its been almost two years since I played and I look forward to getting back into the game, just as soon as I can find some time.

[khzmusik]

On 9/17/2024 at 7:53 AM, SylenThunder said:

 

Why to people always focus on Alpha 16?  That was probably one of the absolute buggiest versions that existed. Drive down a road and your minibike would teleport into a hill next to you with you on it. Managing servers was almost a complete nightmare unless you used several API mods to counter a number of the games issues in the world.

It was probably the first version that started taking away most of the survival aspects. Oh wait.. THAT"S why you like it so much. Alpha 16 was basically easy mode with no challenge and infinite food and ammo.

 

Bite your tongue. I still have a soft spot for A16, since that's when I first started playing 7D2D, and first started playing the huge number of mods for it. It's still great in its own way. (And it wasn't nearly as buggy as A15 from what I've been told.)

 

...Not that I'll ever go back to it now. I tried to do that relatively recently, and it just seems like amateur hour today. Graphics are sub-par, there is a huge lack of features (only one vehicle!), etc.

 

But there are still a bunch of game mechanics that I am sorry were removed, like weapon parts, or LBD, or planting crops directly into terrain blocks, or possibly "stupid" zombie pathing. Even though 1.0 is a better game overall, I can absolutely understand people who think that A16 was the highlight of the game's mechanics.

 

EDIT: I should really mention that there are mods out there which will bring back many of these mechanics (to the degree possible). It is to TFP's credit that they made the game easy to mod so that people can do this. For players it is the best of both worlds: you can get the improvements to the game that TFP implemented, but you can also find ways to revert the game mechanics if you want to.

Edited September 21 by khzmusik (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

On 9/17/2024 at 1:53 PM, SylenThunder said:

 

Why to people always focus on Alpha 16?  That was probably one of the absolute buggiest versions that existed. Drive down a road and your minibike would teleport into a hill next to you with you on it. Managing servers was almost a complete nightmare unless you used several API mods to counter a number of the games issues in the world.

It was probably the first version that started taking away most of the survival aspects. Oh wait.. THAT"S why you like it so much. Alpha 16 was basically easy mode with no challenge and infinite food and ammo.

 

V1.0 is buggier than anything i remember also had more game crashes in V1.0 than all the time before. And i got the game 2013. Also A16 still had LBD. Not perfect, but as we can see in mods, it had potential to be developed more so that you can´t abuse it. Now we have a system ideal for min/maxing that centers around getting magazines and can be abused easily.

 

It could be called 7 days of magazines right now.

 

A16 was a good base that should have been perfected instead of reworking existing mechanics. And don´t even start with place holders. Why would you take a placeholder that works in way you never intended the game to work? Why not take a place holder that is more similar to what you want the game to be?

 

Also did you even properly play V1.0? Because you can easily come home from infested quests with more ammo than you entered it. Ammo is a non issue in V1.0

 

 

Edited September 21 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Wjiiv]

 

[Slingblade2040]

The game has changed for the worse. It's been dumbed down a lot and the excuse used was to make it easier for new players which is ridiculous. Maybe if this was 1995 but these days players have access to youtube guides or have watched streamers play it. Proof being that the pimps have a literal streamer weekend to show off the game and updates to attract new players or old players which these viewers see how the game plays and learn at the very least the basics. 

 

Lots of over haul mods have managed to implement systems to cater to both sides of the aisle and keep the game new player friendly but also offer veterans a challenge.

 

Rather certain people want to admit it or not the pimps are horrible at balance for this game.  They can't even make up their minds on what kind of loot the dungeons should give because we don't have PoIs anymore we have quest dungeons like fantasy RPGs. 

 

The weather system is going to be another terribly implemented idea just like the traders and quest system.

 

Also before folks say stuff about modders don't have to fix issues or others nonsense yes they do. 

[7 days to die fan]

On 9/17/2024 at 5:41 PM, warmer said:

Right click and download A16 and leave us out of it.

I think you just included yourself

[Cr0wst0rm]

On 9/17/2024 at 1:53 PM, SylenThunder said:

 

Why to people always focus on Alpha 16?  That was probably one of the absolute buggiest versions that existed. Drive down a road and your minibike would teleport into a hill next to you with you on it. Managing servers was almost a complete nightmare unless you used several API mods to counter a number of the games issues in the world.

It was probably the first version that started taking away most of the survival aspects. Oh wait.. THAT"S why you like it so much. Alpha 16 was basically easy mode with no challenge and infinite food and ammo.

Because alpha 16 was one of the latest alphas that had somewhat decent random gen. Then it was thrown away with flat worlds which on other hand have more interesting cities, but terrain variance is at square one basically. Other features were simplified (removed jars, non-throwable spears). This game has become simply repetitive, only thanks to the fact the POIs are dungeon based now, they are very easy to remember, which was very different in alpha 16, it simply felt more open. But lets turn another page. The book situation is simply a disaster. Who would ever design a game in a way, that you need to loot books 100 times just to get a certain skill? Where is the fun and actually where is sense in that, when you also keep getting stuff you have already read?
I would also disagree it was too easy, from what I remember there was much higher change to get stunned from just single hit, the zombies would then tear you apart. The combat was decently challenging. Only buggy things I remembered from the times were brass being stuck in forge and dead zombies stuck in animation mode, but that's it, you simply cannot condemn previous version based on the fact that there are newer, shinier ones.

Another argument I often see a lot is that if we dont like it, we should mod it. But why? Why should we, the players fix things that worked before? Isn't t that job of the developer to align such things? And what about multiplayer, do you really think all modders are capable of providing fixes for the mess while keeping the game playable on hosted servers?

I am really dissapointed that the moderators always keep shilling for the latest release and never have objective stance when it comes to other opinions. I would really love to see some honesty in that, but all i see are excuses and arguments in the benefit of the Fun Pimps.