Slingblade2040 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 So is this topic off hand because it seems weird no posts or anything about it. Mind you I'm lazy and didn't bother searching I wouldn't be surprised if certain folks got rid of these kinds of posts since the whole drama surrounding this doesn't paint TFP in a good picture. Not saying the others are totally innocent just that things could have been handled very differently and if you know anything about content creation a strike is a very serious and last resort kinda thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotor Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 Huh? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theFlu Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 I have no idea what the topic is, but if it includes mods and their decisions, ye, public discussions of those are out of limits on the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seven Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 It's not about moderators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theFlu Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 Well, if the EULA has changed and it involves game mods, I'm guessing copyright things..? I don't think that would entirely banned here as a topic, but as the title already includes "drama", I doubt it's going to be that fruitful either ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFT2020 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 Are you talking about mod creators who charge people to use their mods? If so, that isn’t new in the EULA and TFP are right to go after anyone that creates mods for 7D2D and charge others to use it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFT2020 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 And if anyone wonders, TFP made an announcement about it https://7daystodie.com/mischief-maker-usage/#:~:text=The Mischief Maker Twitch Extension,extension and by Mischief Maker. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warmer Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 People who don't add context to vague subjects in posts, really think we are all telepathic don't they.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Crow Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, warmer said: People who don't add context to vague subjects in posts, really think we are all telepathic don't they.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riamus Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 6 hours ago, BFT2020 said: And if anyone wonders, TFP made an announcement about it https://7daystodie.com/mischief-maker-usage/#:~:text=The Mischief Maker Twitch Extension,extension and by Mischief Maker. If that is what this thread is about, I don't see any problem with it. If the EULA states you can't monetize in that way, then you can't. Simple. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingblade2040 Posted July 23, 2023 Author Share Posted July 23, 2023 25 minutes ago, Riamus said: If that is what this thread is about, I don't see any problem with it. If the EULA states you can't monetize in that way, then you can't. Simple. What I'm wondering is if that means if certain youtubers or streamers who are big in the community have things like a private server but for patreons only would that be included since it's still monetization of this game through another platform like patreon? Technically it wouldn't be much different than the whole mischief maker mod thing. Would like to see the TFP give a more detailed explanation on this but I guess that would be kinda stuff lawyers handle. I'm on the fence since I'm a huge mod supporter and feel they don't get the respect they should from the team for helping keep this game alive, mind you this is across the board with alot of heavily modded games like anything from Bethesda, stardew valley also has a decent mod community and same goes for alot of other games like rimworld and terraria. What's worse is when the base game starts to implement alot of the modders ideas and not even bother giving them any credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riamus Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Slingblade2040 said: What I'm wondering is if that means if certain youtubers or streamers who are big in the community have things like a private server but for patreons only would that be included since it's still monetization of this game through another platform like patreon? Technically it wouldn't be much different than the whole mischief maker mod thing. Would like to see the TFP give a more detailed explanation on this but I guess that would be kinda stuff lawyers handle. I'm on the fence since I'm a huge mod supporter and feel they don't get the respect they should from the team for helping keep this game alive, mind you this is across the board with alot of heavily modded games like anything from Bethesda, stardew valley also has a decent mod community and same goes for alot of other games like rimworld and terraria. What's worse is when the base game starts to implement alot of the modders ideas and not even bother giving them any credit. I would think the EULA spells out what is not allowed (at least in legal-speak). I haven't read it as I never read EULAs, so I don't really know. But for it to be legal, it would need to be clear enough for a lawyer or judge. As far as implementing modder stuff... that's a gray area. If they see someone mention an idea in the forums and they like they idea and implement it, there isn't any need to credit anyone even if the original comment on the forum was about a mod doing something. If they were to get the mod, go through what it did and then copy it into the game, then that would need credit (and permission). I doubt they do that, though. They regularly say they don't play the mods. If that's true, then anything that is implemented that was first implemented in a mod is not really copied from the mod and is either an original idea that happens to also be available in a mod or they saw someone comment on it and used the idea without it being specifically copying the idea of a mod. Either way wouldn't require credit to be given. I don't use mods and have never tried DF or UL. Let's say I suggested that the game adds NPCs. I think at least one of those overhaul mods has NPCs, though I don't know for certain. Just because I had the same kind of idea that a mod creator had, it doesn't mean I copied the idea from them. I'm not saying they don't copy from mods but there's no evidence that they are, either. As far as showing respect for the modders... the devs have said they support modders and that modding is important for the game. Even if they aren't specifically saying that mod X is great or that modder Y is really helpful, they are still giving support to the modding community and continue to add more options for modders. I'm not sure what else they should be doing. But asking modders not to sell their mods is a legitimate requirement. I don't know about Pantheon but I think that's entirely optional. People can choose to "tip" them for some kind of bonus (some streamers for other things will offer behind the scenes streams for Pantheon supporters, for example) but it doesn't require payment for use of whatever it is. If the mod in question required payment to use it, then that would be a different thing. I didn't look beyond that statement from TFP so I don't know what that mod did for monetization. I'm just offering a comparison of possible differences. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annihilatorza Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 Every dev I know has the same rules, stream, make mods all you want. However if you monetize it in anyway shape or form you will fall foul of the EULA and this is not a new thing its been this way since 2016 for the TFP. They were warned and chose to ignore it nothing more to be said. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFT2020 Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Slingblade2040 said: What I'm wondering is if that means if certain youtubers or streamers who are big in the community have things like a private server but for patreons only would that be included since it's still monetization of this game through another platform like patreon? Technically it wouldn't be much different than the whole mischief maker mod thing. Would like to see the TFP give a more detailed explanation on this but I guess that would be kinda stuff lawyers handle. I'm on the fence since I'm a huge mod supporter and feel they don't get the respect they should from the team for helping keep this game alive, mind you this is across the board with alot of heavily modded games like anything from Bethesda, stardew valley also has a decent mod community and same goes for alot of other games like rimworld and terraria. What's worse is when the base game starts to implement alot of the modders ideas and not even bother giving them any credit. Streamers and youtubers who stream the game to Patrons only would not run afoul of the EULA agreement. The EULA states that you cannot mod the game and use that mod to generate income from. It is technically more different that the Mischief Maker modification as streamers as just getting paid for playing of the game, tutorials, and commentary. They earn money either through subscriptions or ad revenue shared by the streamer platform. MM's mod took a 20% cut from everyone that was using it. That is why the mod was illegal. There are several examples of mod makers out there that are not doing anything illegal, Khaine is a good example. His mod, Darkness Falls, doesn't run afoul of the EULA as long as he freely distributes it to everyone, and doesn't use copyright material in it. Because both his Patron subscribers and the general public at large are able to download and play his mod, it is does not go against the EULA. As for the streamer that got the strike when MM went down, they had a monetary agreement with MM to promote the MM mod. So they were actively promoting the mod that broke the EULA from TFP. Other streamers / content creators that were using the mod, but not officially promoting it, were notified that the mod was illegal. Edited July 23, 2023 by BFT2020 (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) In my experience, TFP draws a distinction between you being able to watch someone else playing their game and you being able to play the game yourself when it comes to monetizing. They don’t care that someone puts a video of themselves playing behind a paywall because that’s just watching and available to anyone on the planet whether they’ve purchased the game or not. But playable content is supposed to be free for everyone who purchased the game. TFP has put out many updates at no extra charge and they expect mods to be at no extra charge as well. They do allow authors to ask for donations, however. Edited July 23, 2023 by Roland (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElCabong Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 op needs to rephrase his comment. It is way way too vague. You're better off making a forceful point that people can read and understand even though it might get locked later. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotor Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 OiC now. I cant help but feel a great disturbance: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippy0330 Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Roland said: In my experience, TFP draws a distinction between you being able to watch someone else playing their game and you being able to play the game yourself when it comes to monetizing. They don’t care that someone puts a video of themselves playing behind a paywall because that’s just watching and available to anyone on the planet whether they’ve purchased the game or not. But playable content is supposed to be free for everyone who purchased the game. TFP has put out many updates at no extra charge and they expect mods to be at no extra charge as well. They do allow authors to ask for donations, however. Oh man, we all get it. We do, It was the way it went about. The PR is horrible. You're gonna get people who fanboy the crap outta developers and you're gonna get the ones that think everything should be free and immediate. what they did though, was full on corporate bully. Instead of releasing a mention publicly, they once again (RE: console), hid all of their business because there is zero transparency (once again, not arguing they can't do it, just mentioning the consequences of) and just went and took action on people THEN mentioned it. They just confirmation biased a whole section of casual players of the game. This type of behavior is very damaging to a business, and yes, they can do what they want. I'd 100 percent like to call out your phrasing " TFP has put out many updates at no extra charge and they expect mods to be at no extra charge as well" IF they charged for Alpha updates after people buy into a alpha that's lasted this long, they wouldn't exist as a company. That phrase is 100 true when the game is considered complete, runs well and all the original kickstarter features are in. No man's sky can say that, TFP can't. Alpha updates aren't free updates, they're part of why you bought into an alpha. The game's not even complete. you can't call finishing it free updates. And no, Mods shouldn't charge for access, we've seen TFP work with Modders before on this issue. If the developer of MM will full ignored the warnings, that's on him. Love ya. Missed ya. edited because i put everything into the quote. Edited July 23, 2023 by skippy0330 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rince Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 34 minutes ago, skippy0330 said: Oh man, we all get it. We do, It was the way it went about. The PR is horrible. You're gonna get people who fanboy the crap outta developers and you're gonna get the ones that think everything should be free and immediate. what they did though, was full on corporate bully. Instead of releasing a mention publicly, they once again (RE: console), hid all of their business because there is zero transparency (once again, not arguing they can't do it, just mentioning the consequences of) and just went and took action on people THEN mentioned it. They just confirmation biased a whole section of casual players of the game. This type of behavior is very damaging to a business, and yes, they can do what they want. I'd 100 percent like to call out your phrasing " TFP has put out many updates at no extra charge and they expect mods to be at no extra charge as well" IF they charged for Alpha updates after people buy into a alpha that's lasted this long, they wouldn't exist as a company. That phrase is 100 true when the game is considered complete, runs well and all the original kickstarter features are in. No man's sky can say that, TFP can't. Alpha updates aren't free updates, they're part of why you bought into an alpha. The game's not even complete. you can't call finishing it free updates. And no, Mods shouldn't charge for access, we've seen TFP work with Modders before on this issue. If the developer of MM will full ignored the warnings, that's on him. Love ya. Missed ya. edited because i put everything into the quote. I think that the casuals players of the game doesn't even know that something happened and probably never will know. Or care. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianbluebeer Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 sigh. It didn't cost anything to use MM. The 20/80 split is via twitch and it's rules. The current twitch integration uses the same formula. I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyTheAvali Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 So this is less about Mischief Maker and more about the threat made to DCMA content creators for MM (Mischief Maker) content, and if you look at their statement they do threaten DMCA strikes and they HAVE wielded the DMCA against creators already.. Content is FAIR USE first and foremost so please Fun Pimps unless you really wanna @%$# off the creator community keep your @%$#ing contest with MM to just MM and not get creators involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warmer Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 Oh boy.... You really want to stir the pot don't you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arma Rex Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 I love when people act as if they're legal experts and act indignant because of it. It doesn't seem like TFP is acting reckless by issuing DMCA takedown requests, these actions are probably informed by whatever legal counsel they have. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFT2020 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 Probably more than MM understood EULA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotpoon Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 Am I correct in saying that TFP take a 20% cut of all the streamers bits whilst integration is running? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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