Is it just me or are item modifications changed?

[Jaythomas]

I just noticed that mods are limited to,

 

Tier 1-3 : 1 mod

Tier 4-5: 2 mod

Tier 6: 3 mod

 

Used to be,

 

Tier 1-2, 1:mod

Tier 3-4, 2 mod

Tier 5, 3 mod

Tier 6, 4 mod

I can't find any mention of this so I'm wondering if it's just me.  If this is real, it's a terrible change.

[Euzio]

It was mentioned in the patch notes. But they did not indicate how it was changed. So I did some quick testing as I was curious about this too.
 

Stone Axe (T1)   Q1 - 1 mod slot Q2 - 1 mod slot Q3 - 1 mod slot Q4 - 2 mod slot Q5 - 2 mod slot Q6 - 3 mod slot

Iron FireAxe (T2   Q1 - 2 mod slot Q2 - 2 mod slot Q3 - 2 mod slot Q4 - 3 mod slot Q5 - 3 mod slot Q6 - 4 mod slot

Steel Axe (T3)   Q1 - 3 mod slot Q2 - 3 mod slot Q3 - 3 mod slot Q4 - 4 mod slot Q5 - 4 mod slot Q6 - 4 mod slot

 

 

Pipe Pistol (T1)   Q1 - 1 mod slot Q2 - 1 mod slot Q3 - 1 mod slot Q4 - 2 mod slot Q5 - 2 mod slot Q6 - 3 mod slot

Pistol (T2)   Q1 - 2 mod slot Q2 - 2 mod slot Q3 - 2 mod slot Q4 - 3 mod slot Q5 - 3 mod slot Q6 - 4 mod slot

SMG (T3)   Q1 - 3 mod slot Q2 - 3 mod slot Q3 - 3 mod slot Q4 - 4 mod slot Q5 - 4 mod slot Q6 - 4 mod slot

 
Overall, I think its actually a decent change. They've also adjusted the damage and block damage values such that a Q1 Pistol is better than a Q6 Pipe Pistol supposedly according to the patch notes. Based on what I've seen from spawning in those weapons, it seems to be the case as well. Considering the current system where we need books to progress tiers, it makes alot more sense too.

*Edited to compress the test results*

Edited June 30, 2023 by Euzio (see edit history)

[Jaythomas]

Thanks!  I'll agree with you.  It actually makes sense now.

[Khalagar]

Good change over all then,  now we just need it to be backwards where you can't find Q6 items and can only craft them.

 

The trader just handed me a Q6 Drone and Q6 M60, which completely invalidates the entire magazine lines. It would make a lot more sense imo if the trader gave you only parts and materials rather than the full item, so you still needed to find the books

[Survior]

The change is mod slots. Who wanted that? If anything all items should have the same amount of mod slots (except maybe stone limited to 2), that way a t1 iron/steel item will always be an upgrade.  Another trash tier change imho.

 

[hiemfire]

19 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

The trader just handed me a Q6 Drone and Q6 M60, which completely invalidates the entire magazine lines. It would make a lot more sense imo if the trader gave you only parts and materials rather than the full item, so you still needed to find the books

 

I could live with this. 😁

[Euzio]

29 minutes ago, Survior said:

The change is mod slots. Who wanted that? If anything all items should have the same amount of mod slots (except maybe stone limited to 2), that way a t1 iron/steel item will always be an upgrade.  Another trash tier change imho.

 

The thing is, it is now as well. The patch notes said so and based on what I've initially seen, there is a linear upgrade now. A Q1 Steel Shovel will be better than a Q6 Iron Shovel now. I mentioned it in my reply above. 

I definitely won't mind as well if we could craft Q6 items. 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Euzio (see edit history)

[Survior]

Reading the second poster's data more carefully I would say it's two steps in the right direction and one step back in typical TFP style, as players cannot craft t6, they have added yet another aspect to how badly thought out the magazine system is.

 

[theFlu]

3 hours ago, Survior said:

as players cannot craft t6, they have added yet another aspect to how badly thought out the magazine system is.

They seem to have actually solved half of that problem as well, the craftable Q5 at T3 will have the same amount of mods as the Q6, so all of the difference is a few percent stats.

[SylenThunder]

Chart I yoinked out of a developers pocket...

 

[fragtzack]

Noticed this change in game play also, I like it!

 

SylenThunder, thanks !

[OgreSlayeR]

Definitely a good change, one I have been hoping they would implement since the start of A21 exp.  Feels like a good linear progression now,

[Jihh]

11 hours ago, Survior said:

Who wanted that?

I wanted that. Actually in another thread (with the poll about the progression systems) I made a comment that I find it quite difficult to compare those systems, because the tier progression is (was) pretty flawed due to power balance and mod slots. For some alphas now I always progressed through tier 1 and then always skipped each tier until their level 5/6 items, because level 1-4 were weaker than level 5-6 from the previous tier. As long as that isn't fixed (and I hope this patch did a good first step, I'll have to try it first) every progression system feels flawed, because there isn't a smooth progression.
So I'm very happy about that change. Imho that's one of the best and most important changes in terms of progression they did in a long time.

 

10 hours ago, Survior said:

Reading the second poster's data more carefully I would say it's two steps in the right direction and one step back in typical TFP style, as players cannot craft t6, they have added yet another aspect to how badly thought out the magazine system is.

I don't agree at all. While I also dislike that level 6 items aren't craftable (at least I dislike it in the current and past states of the game), I think it's less of a problem now than before. Before we had a progression gap from one tier level 5+ to the next tier level 5+, so level 6 items from lower tiers were used for quite some time. With the change those level 6 items aren't as important anymore, because you'll be able to craft the level 1 item from the higher tier and it's actually better. Of course that means that making level 6 items from lower tiers craftable would make the progression even smoother, and maybe that change will follow, but at least there isn't such a huge gap anymore. It's just a small one that doesn't hurt anyone.

Level 6 on the highest tier is another story imho. At least with how the game works now I think it should be craftable, but let's see if them being non craftable will make sense in the future.

15 minutes ago, OgreSlayeR said:

Definitely a good change, one I have been hoping they would implement since the start of A21 exp.  Feels like a good linear progression now,

I was waiting for that change since they made the change from all items having 6 mod slots to the amount of mod slots being dependent on the item quality. It never made sense to me, because of the progression gaps it created. I just weren't vocal about it, because I'm not that active in this forum and am usually rather chilled and wait for what's coming.

[BFT2020]

12 hours ago, Survior said:

The change is mod slots. Who wanted that? If anything all items should have the same amount of mod slots (except maybe stone limited to 2), that way a t1 iron/steel item will always be an upgrade.  Another trash tier change imho.

 

 

Comparison of items between the various tiers (especially between a T1 Q6 item and a T2 Q1 item) has been ongoing for a very long time in the forums.  There has been a lot of suggestions on what to do about it (removing mod slots from T0 gear, removing some of the quality levels, etc.), but it has been discussed.  This was TFP's way of addressing that issue based on the system they have in place. 

 

And no, I don't agree that all items should have the same amount of mod slots.  If anything T0 gear should have none, T1 should be limited to 2 slots only, T2 should only go to around 3 slots, and T3/T4 should have 4 slots.  However, my opinion, just like yours, is just one of many out there, and ultimately it is TFP game so they are going to go with a route that they feel is the best.

 

Fortunately, I can mod those things into my game so I can tweak it to the way I think it should be.

[Jihh]

2 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

If anything T0 gear should have none

I disagree. At least as long as mods drop on the same gamestage as T0 gear. I mean it would be pretty frustrating to find some nice mods and not being able to use them for quite some time.
If you are still at 2 slot items and find 3 mods than you have to prioritize, make decisions. That's interesting. But not being able to use it at all isn't.

[Gazz]

17 hours ago, SylenThunder said:

Chart I yoinked out of a developers pocket...

 

So DVulture/SMG are T3 ranged, yet they are treated even worse than other T2 ranged.

 

If they dropped on a T2 loot table it could be reasonable but no, they are actually harder to find than other weapons since Vulture/SMG share the slot when an agility firearm is rolled to drop.

Compound bows do use the T2 quality and loot template so they drop much earlier and at higher quality.

 

Your preferred weapon already dropped half as likely and now you get shafted on mod slots compared to other T3 ranged.

Who hates the agility attribute so much?

[Kosmic Kerman]

9 minutes ago, Gazz said:

 

So DVulture/SMG are T3 ranged, yet they are treated even worse than other T2 ranged.

 

If they dropped on a T2 loot table it could be reasonable but no, they are actually harder to find than other weapons since Vulture/SMG share the slot when an agility firearm is rolled to drop.

Compound bows do use the T2 quality and loot template so they drop much earlier and at higher quality.

 

Your preferred weapon already dropped half as likely and now you get shafted on mod slots compared to other T3 ranged.

Who hates the agility attribute so much?

Hi Gazz. Hope you are doing well. With the changes to trader rewards and the changes to loot tables taking such a hard line on mod slots for the .44 pistols does seem a little weird.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Kosmic Kerman (see edit history)

[bloodmoth13]

Oh this is interesting, I just assumed my smh could only hold 1 mod at t1

This change is actually good, mods make up such an important part of weapon progression 

[Khalagar]

On 7/1/2023 at 12:27 AM, Gazz said:

Who hates the agility attribute so much?

 

Agility and Int are wonky as hell and seriously need a full pass over imo, because it really does seem like nobody on the balance team actually plays either attribute as a build.

 

Agility has weapons competing with itself like Pistol vs Bow and Int has no tier 0, tier 1, or tier 3 ranged weapon and no tier 2 or 3 melee one. I need to check my robotic turrets again, but I'm pretty sure the level 5 sledge and turret I crafted only have 3 slots, I know the sledge definitely only had 3.

 

Their weird reluctance to fill in the tier gaps on int leave it really painful to use for most of the game where you just outright don't have a weapon of your tier. On my current run I'm reaching late game, and stun baton is falling off fast and basically relying 100% on the 10% instant kill chance and dismember chance, and robotic turrets are taking absurd amounts of resources to even kill small groups compared to just pulling out a shotgun and clearing the room with 5 shells

 

I've been doing an Int / Agility build this time and SMG just seems horribly weak compared to an equivalent machine gun and crossbow is basically just a hunting rifle side grade / worse than the sniper in most situations

Edited July 2, 2023 by Khalagar (see edit history)

[Gazz]

Handguns vs bows is firepower vs stealth.

 

Bow vs crossbow is obviously a sidegrade where you choose high mobility vs maximum sneak attack damage. If you really like bows and run&gun often, a bow can actually work well while a crossbow gets your ass bitten.

If you're not the sneaky type then yes, a rifle will beat a crossbow in most cases. But then you should go Perception.

 

It's rather the magnum/vulture that have no real niche in the game and were added purely for coolness, bloating the attribute even more. =P

[Roland]

On 7/4/2023 at 12:53 AM, Gazz said:

It's rather the magnum/vulture that have no real niche in the game and were added purely for coolness, bloating the attribute even more. =P

 

We just need a wrist rocket added so we can have:

 

Vulture vs Wrist Rocket is coolness vs nerdy.

[fragtzack]

On 7/4/2023 at 1:53 AM, Gazz said:

 

It's rather the magnum/vulture that have no real niche in the game and were added purely for coolness, bloating the attribute even more. =P

 My first a21 play through was full agi build. I did find the magnum/vulture quite useful. However the 9mm pistol was used more often tthan he magnum/vulture  because the  9mm has so many special perks plus high rate of fire. In addition 9mm ammo drops very frequently.   I would end up only using the magnum/vulture  for really nasty greens where  high damage per shot is most important. Other use cases for Magnum/Vulture over 9mm is longer range shots.