playlessNamer Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 (edited) New Places of Interest <--I play with mods anyway, so this feature is standard implemented, but 1 of the better patchcontent New Decorations <--I play with mods anyway, so this feature is standard implemented, but 1 of the better patchcontent Cars, trucks, tractors <-- The always same car all over the world was meanwhile a running gag anyways Furniture and many many new items Additional Advanced World Generation Options <-- to specific, i want a good working standard setting. No buggy cliffs, nice panoramas, just a beautyfull map. Not interested in sliders to make maps extreme. Biome Percent Sliders (included in Alpha 20.6) Learn By Reading System <-- The third rework of progression and skill system? It was fine like it was before, it has just to work. A tree or skillmap would be fine too, any basic skilltech like its standard since decades in videogames. This one looks very special, lets see how it plays. It removes sadly a gamestyle to stay at home and make your progress there. 23 new skills to govern crafting (photo in gallery below) 23 new magazines added to loot Perks no longer unlock recipes or govern crafting at all The only schematics that still unlock recipes are mod attachments. Crafting skill is increased by finding and reading magazines Skill increases unlock recipes at certain points as well as increase quality of crafting for items with quality Each tech level has a separate range in the skill spectrum so that you have to work up through primitive tech and then iron tech and then steel tech and being able to craft a blue stone axe no long means you automatically can also craft a blue iron axe. Some skills have 100 levels but others have less depending on how many unlocks there are for recipes and quality tiers. A new skill page showing your progress has been added to the player interface (photo in gallery below) Skill magazines can be found, bought, and/or received as quest rewards. The topic of the magazine matches the location you would expect to find it in the world. Perks slightly affect the probability of finding like-themed magazines and parts for those recipes. Perk into shotguns and you will notice more shotgun magazines and shotgun parts appearing in the world. It isn't a significant bonus but it does prevent the player from being screwed over. When you max out a skill, that slight probability bonus granted by perks for finding the corresponding magazine for that skill drops off. The magazine will still show up randomly in loot but no longer have a boost. The probability boost for finding matching parts will remain. Interactive Environmental Hazards https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0mgZ9zB9m4 <-- nice gimmick, some trigger elements, its ok but sounds missplaced in a world where i can remove every single block. Its a new core mechanic in the basecode, maybe modable, thats cool! Flaming broken gas pipes blocking the way. A valve to turn off the gas flow is located elsewhere. Doors Double Doors <-- Thats cool little thing. Partially damaged doors with large holes can be shot/meleed through to damage enemies on the other side <-- very cool, feels more like a fix than a feature. Water Simulation <-- I know in every game the devs seem to have big trouble with waterbehaviour, for me it would be enough to fix the ugly holes in the water happening sometimes. Nice to have. All new water coding--water is no longer a block but a water voxel Water voxels flow into neighboring voxels that are marked to allow it. Water can be in the same space as a block Water does not flow or fall continuously like a river or a waterfall Player movement in water has been enhanced Armor <--just models or any deeper mechanic behind it? Simple best in slot system or affects gameplay? New Iron Armor New Commando Military Armor More details to come. Drinking Water Rebalance <-- I am concerned... not really a big content and couldt be annoying pretty fast. Murky water is the only water found in loot and water sources. Empty Glass bottles removed from game to match all the rest of the containers in the game Dew collector work station added Players can drink murky water directly from water sources with empty hand by pressing "e". Drinking murky water causes 5 hp of damage and has a chance to give dysentery Pot is now required to boil murky water into boiled water Glue crafting taken into consideration Spears <-- Removed Spear! Was a cool mechanic in some runs when you find a good spear early. Had fun with it. Why remove features? Spear damage increased Spear power attack is a thrust instead of a throw Throw attack for spears removed Chunk Reset Option <-- Standard mod since around 3-4 alphas. Default is disabled Options for days all the way up to 70 days Chunk resets to its pregenerated state if no player has entered the chunk after the number of days selected. An active LCB or bedroll will prevent a chunk from resetting. Trader Changes <-- Balance changes, trader / secret stash is op, necessary point. New Trader compounds Trader inventories rebalanced with the new crafting progression Removal of Secret Stash Further specialization of traders and what they carry Electricity Changes <-- Standard mod since around 2-3 alphas. Wires only visible when holding wire cutting tool Player HUD changes <-- I am again concerned. Every HUD is bad but its necessary. Keep it to the absolut minimum. I see more and more brightcolored stuff popping up on the screen like questmarkers. Fit this anyhow into the enviroment instead to the HUD. Immersionbreaking alert. Danger Meter added to show danger level of biomes and POIs Crafting Recipe Tracker can be toggled to show on the HUD to help players as they gather materials needed for crafting Perk Rebalancing <-- Balance changes Sexual T-Rex removed. Stamina improvement now incorporated into the separate perks for each relevant weapon Each attribute will get its own version of Flurry of Blows as an additional perk for the melee weapons within that attribute Grease Monkey now increases the amount of health that repair kits restore to vehicles. (One repair kit no longer restores a vehicle back to max health) Vehicle Changes <-- Balance changes Repair kits restore a fixed amount of health and each level of Grease Monkey adds 10% of the vehicle's total health to the amount restored. Increased vehicle damage to blocks, terrain, and entities by various amounts. Increased vehicle damage received from collisions by various amounts Improved vehicle block collision calculations Greatly increased damage given and received to and from block collision. Increased bicycle, gyro, and 4x4 helath Vehicle spark effects on bigger self damage hits Vehicle blood splatter effects on high damage collisions with entities Entity Activity Throttling System <--backgroundwork, sounds like 1 of the best patchnotes. Stability is 1 of the most important topics in this game. I like to crank up the amount of zeds ingame to get horde feeling. Zombie pathing updates less frequently (server-side) based on distance from player Jiggle components disabled (client-side) based on distance from player Each player can always have some fully simulated zombies Helps with large numbers of zombies from Blood Moon & sleeper volumes New Terrain Tool <--creative mode feature? Sphere-shaped brush with adjustable size Grows terrain in all directions instead of just upwards Can fill space with any block (including non-terrain) Undo function Graphics Improvements <-- is daylight still enlighten caves? Small detail. Shadows re-enabled on grass, based on quality settings I dont wanna rant here and i dont want to under value the work it needs in the background to make things happen wich look small on the surface. BUT where is the headline? The core feature of the alpha? The big thing we waiting for over and over again more than a year? I know it was bandits and they are canceld but what is left? Actually it feels for me like there is nothing to wait for in this patch and better skip to A22 but then i am again 2 years older than now +6month to fix it properly and wait for mods to work again. Everyone has different prioritys whats important for them in the game. From my point this patchlog sounds like a small fixpatch with some balancechanges and lot of backgroundwork but with some concerning changes for the gameplay. Do i miss something or will this patch still be big? I miss the banger. Maybe the overall feeling changes a lot with the sum of all this little changes. How would you describe the banger of this patch? The impact we will remember when we talk about the A20 realease after a year? Edited April 8, 2023 by playlessNamer (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 What will be the banger of the final beta that leads to the release? You guessed it, there probably won't be any. This is not a service game. TFP's job ist not to create entertainment with the alphas. They don't need to check which mods are available to avoid duplicating them. I personally like the change to how crafting recipes are learned. It is not a redesign of the perk system, it only changes the craft progression so it finally works like a smooth progression. Yes, the new method has drawbacks as well, but the old way was definitely broken. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riamus Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 (edited) As mentioned, this isn't a subscription game like an MMO and these aren't DLCs. There is no requirement to have some big new feature in each alpha. They are getting close to when they release gold and so the final alphas are going to be focused on getting everything cleaned up for that. Other than bandits in A22, you probably won't see any major new features in the final alphas. The biggest thing for me in this alpha are the new art assets and new POI. I like much of the rest and there are some changes I'm not too sure about until I get a chance to test them, but overall I think that A21 will be good. Just don't look for big stuff in the final alphas. They are going to be more focused on cleaning up code, optimizations, tweaking features already in the game, adding assets, etc. That isn't to say they won't add anything big other than bandits, but that isn't what you should expect in the final alphas before gold. Edited April 8, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Crow Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 8 hours ago, meganoth said: What will be the banger of the final beta that leads to the release? You guessed it, there probably won't be any. This is not a service game. TFP's job ist not to create entertainment with the alphas. They don't need to check which mods are available to avoid duplicating them. I personally like the change to how crafting recipes are learned. It is not a redesign of the perk system, it only changes the craft progression so it finally works like a smooth progression. Yes, the new method has drawbacks as well, but the old way was definitely broken. Won't be a banger, or won't be a beta? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 The art update is what took a year and a half. The feature list doesn't and can't do it justice. It has been a comprehensive overhaul. You are absolutely correct that not everyone values the same things and what is exciting for one person may be dismissed by another. The developers view the changes in art that they made for A21 as necessary and critical to get done before gold and it has eaten up the most time. Bandits have not been canceled. They and the new character models are well underway but just not finished in time for A21. Unlike past alphas where they just got punted, the developers have been actively working on them this time. While the feature list may not look like it contains any bangers, the changes they have made to water survival and crafting have definitely freshened up the gameplay for the early to mid game. Hopefully, you will enjoy those changes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crypted Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 (edited) The words in red are something I don't like about Alpha 21, the rest i'll have to wait and see how it plays out with the dev streams and overall, in my opinion. A21 Release Date: 2023 CONFIRMED A21 FEATURES New Places of Interest New Decorations Cars, trucks, tractors Furniture and many many new items Additional Advanced World Generation Options Biome Percent Sliders (included in Alpha 20.6) Learn By Reading System 23 new skills to govern crafting (photo in gallery below) 23 new magazines added to loot Perks no longer unlock recipes or govern crafting at all The only schematics that still unlock recipes are mod attachments. Crafting skill is increased by finding and reading magazines Skill increases unlock recipes at certain points as well as increase quality of crafting for items with quality Each tech level has a separate range in the skill spectrum so that you have to work up through primitive tech and then iron tech and then steel tech and being able to craft a blue stone axe no long means you automatically can also craft a blue iron axe. Some skills have 100 levels but others have less depending on how many unlocks there are for recipes and quality tiers. A new skill page showing your progress has been added to the player interface (photo in gallery below) Skill magazines can be found, bought, and/or received as quest rewards. The topic of the magazine matches the location you would expect to find it in the world. Perks slightly affect the probability of finding like-themed magazines and parts for those recipes. Perk into shotguns and you will notice more shotgun magazines and shotgun parts appearing in the world. It isn't a significant bonus but it does prevent the player from being screwed over. When you max out a skill, that slight probability bonus granted by perks for finding the corresponding magazine for that skill drops off. The magazine will still show up randomly in loot but no longer have a boost. The probability boost for finding matching parts will remain. Interactive Environmental Hazards https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0mgZ9zB9m4 Flaming broken gas pipes blocking the way. A valve to turn off the gas flow is located elsewhere. Doors Double Doors Partially damaged doors with large holes can be shot/meleed through to damage enemies on the other side Water Simulation All new water coding--water is no longer a block but a water voxel Water voxels flow into neighboring voxels that are marked to allow it. Water can be in the same space as a block Water does not flow or fall continuously like a river or a waterfall Player movement in water has been enhanced Armor New Iron Armor New Commando Military Armor More details to come. Drinking Water Rebalance Murky water is the only water found in loot and water sources. Empty Glass bottles removed from game to match all the rest of the containers in the game Glass bottles should have stayed in but I guess this makes a little more sense because the rest of the containers. Dew collector work station added Players can drink murky water directly from water sources with empty hand by pressing "e". Drinking murky water causes 5 hp of damage and has a chance to give dysentery Pot is now required to boil murky water into boiled water Glue crafting taken into consideration Spears Spear damage increased Spear power attack is a thrust instead of a throw Throw attack for spears removed I think the whole point of a spear is to throw in my opinion Chunk Reset Option Default is disabled Options for days all the way up to 70 days Chunk resets to its pregenerated state if no player has entered the chunk after the number of days selected. An active LCB or bedroll will prevent a chunk from resetting. Trader Changes New Trader compounds Trader inventories rebalanced with the new crafting progression Removal of Secret Stash I wish this stayed in but make it to where you had to do enough quests or get your reputation up for that specific trader in order to unlock the stash and get better loot. Further specialization of traders and what they carry Electricity Changes Wires only visible when holding wire cutting tool Player HUD changes Danger Meter added to show danger level of biomes and POIs Crafting Recipe Tracker can be toggled to show on the HUD to help players as they gather materials needed for crafting Perk Rebalancing Sexual T-Rex removed. Stamina improvement now incorporated into the separate perks for each relevant weapon I liked the Athletics perk where the stamina would drain slower as the perk leveled up, to me it makes sense but i'll wait and see in the dev streams for further judgement. Each attribute will get its own version of Flurry of Blows as an additional perk for the melee weapons within that attribute Grease Monkey now increases the amount of health that repair kits restore to vehicles. (One repair kit no longer restores a vehicle back to max health) Vehicle Changes Repair kits restore a fixed amount of health and each level of Grease Monkey adds 10% of the vehicle's total health to the amount restored. Increased vehicle damage to blocks, terrain, and entities by various amounts. Increased vehicle damage received from collisions by various amounts Improved vehicle block collision calculations Greatly increased damage given and received to and from block collision. Increased bicycle, gyro, and 4x4 health Vehicle spark effects on bigger self damage hits Vehicle blood splatter effects on high damage collisions with entities Entity Activity Throttling System Zombie pathing updates less frequently (server-side) based on distance from player Jiggle components disabled (client-side) based on distance from player Each player can always have some fully simulated zombies Helps with large numbers of zombies from Blood Moon & sleeper volumes New Terrain Tool Sphere-shaped brush with adjustable size Grows terrain in all directions instead of just upwards Can fill space with any block (including non-terrain) Undo function Graphics Improvements Shadows re-enabled on grass, based on quality settings ROADMAP TO GOLD AND BEYOND Bandits Armor Weather Factions & Story Steam Workshop Support Edited April 11, 2023 by Crypted (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zztong Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 What is a banger in this context? Is it some marketing concept? Otherwise, I'm going to think of it as sausage and drift through life forever confused. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazgrel Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 I'd rather have the contents of an whole alpha/patch/xpac/whatever be considered a banger rather than having 1-2 features or whatever that tower over everything else. Sure, there are features of A21 I may look forward to more than others (spear and perk reworks) and some I'm a bit skittish on (drinking water changes), but I'll give it a good ol' college try and go from there. Others may look forward to or dread other parts of the patch more, and that's ok. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catdaddy Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobrpggamer Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 (edited) Well my 2 cents is that I wish the skill and perk section did not change. I like the way it is now and I believe that resorting to looting to find schematics will kind of suck for base builders, simply because we look forward to maxing most INT and Miner 69er and Salvage Operations among others to get the resources and unlocks to be allowed to make concrete and steel and allowing you to build your base somewhat earlier on, rather than waiting for a schematic do drop. Also the idea of Loot Stage, may make these schematics seem harder to find. Its just my opinion and seeing how I do not have a PC to play, my opinion may not matter as I am not actively playing the game right now - but I am really bummed out about that. I really do not know most of these changes to really make a statement, but I wish the skill and perk setting would not change at all. Yes I know I could play A20.6 to my hearts content, but I miss out on the other things added that I really like in the update. Now that I think about it, it would be quite a bit better to allow random schematics to be found early on, but if the loot stage is low, I am not sure how often a crucible or workbench would be found. So I hope the loot is a little more generous than that of A20.6. Edited April 10, 2023 by bobrpggamer (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaeliorin Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 55 minutes ago, bobrpggamer said: Well my 2 cents is that I wish the skill and perk section did not change. I like the way it is now and I believe that resorting to looting to find schematics will kind of suck for base builders, simply because we look forward to maxing most INT and Miner 69er and Salvage Operations among others to get the resources and unlocks to be allowed to make concrete and steel and allowing you to build your base somewhat earlier on, rather than waiting for a schematic do drop. Also the idea of Loot Stage, may make these schematics seem harder to find. Yeah, if I don't have max craftable iron tools by Day 2 or Day 3, that's really freaking annoying. I spend most of my nights (and a lot of my days) mining, and not having decent tools to do it with sucks, a lot. I do not look forward to having the early game dragged out even further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobrpggamer Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Vaeliorin said: Yeah, if I don't have max craftable iron tools by Day 2 or Day 3, that's really freaking annoying. I spend most of my nights (and a lot of my days) mining, and not having decent tools to do it with sucks, a lot. I do not look forward to having the early game dragged out even further. I think I was wrong, it was Motherload not Miner 69er, sorry about that, I have not played for a while so I forgot some of the perks and skills. Of course having Iron tools is great too, I was referring to mining for stone and iron to make concrete, forged iron and forged steel. I used salvage operations to make minibike handlebars so I could (after some points into Better Barter) buy some of the things I want to add to my base (ofcourse after Advanced Engineering 2 or 3 I forgot which) you need to make electronic equipment for traps and generators and the like with wrenched mechanical, electrical and scrap polymers and also engines for generators. Edited April 10, 2023 by bobrpggamer (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaeliorin Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 (edited) Yeah, I'm just saying that I'm not going to spend much time mining with a stone axe or low level iron tools. It's way too slow and unproductive. As a fellow base builder, I'm never going to have the amount of resources I'd like early game (I want a minimum of 30k cobble by Day 7) without quick access to quality iron tools (and repair kits.) Edited April 10, 2023 by Vaeliorin (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobrpggamer Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Vaeliorin said: Yeah, I'm just saying that I'm not going to spend much time mining with a stone axe or low level iron tools. It's way too slow and unproductive. As a fellow base builder, I'm never going to have the amount of resources I'd like early game (I want a minimum of 30k cobble by Day 7) without quick access to quality iron tools (and repair kits.) Yeah I forgot the Iron and duct tape to fix all of your tools with repair kits. I am OK with using stone tools for a while but wrenches and hammers are the best things to have early on, and I think they drop fairly early in loot. Clicking the stone axe to repair and too build is kind of irritating I agree. As far a Salvage Operations, It took me quite a while save radiators and headlights and not to sell them for a few bucks. I even used to scrap radiators and batteries, I did not know you could smelt directly, which was a waste of lead and brass. For building a large base you need forges (a lot of them), cement mixers and workbenches. Without being able to get these from perks, I do not know how long it will be to find them in loot. Which is why I wish to keep the perks & skills the way they are. Edited April 11, 2023 by bobrpggamer (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaeliorin Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 47 minutes ago, bobrpggamer said: For building a large base you need forges (a lot of them), cement mixers and workbenches. Without being able to get these from perks, I do not know how long it will be to find them in loot. Which is why I wish to keep the perks & skills the way they are. Yeah, I guess I hadn't even considered that. I usually perk into those right from the beginning, though I don't usually rush cement before Day 7. But if it's going to take me in game weeks to get access to those things, that would be absolutely awful. I tend to use at least hundreds of thousands (often millions) of concrete to build my base, and not being able to do that until much later in game would be absolutely terrible. 8-10 forges and at least 4 cement mixers are my standard, though I often end up using mods for more advanced mixers, because I can go through concrete incredibly fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 Well if you guys are playing single player then just enable the creative menu and give yourselves the best mining tools. The default game is designed as a progression and with the new system you will have to progress through all the quality levels of stone and then start over and progress through all the quality level of iron and then start over and progress through all the quality levels of steel. There isn't going to be high quality top tier mining and building tools by Day 2 in Alpha 21 unless you use the creative menu. There isn't really an effective method of rushing to the top of a particular crafting skill tree since you can't control what magazines you will find so you will spend some time at each stage of tool quality and tier. I personally enjoy the progressive nature of the game and am fine with it being a slow but steady growth of my character and abilities but it sounds like you guys can't stand playing with the low level stuff and are perhaps playing the game more like a sandbox anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaeliorin Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 32 minutes ago, Roland said: Well if you guys are playing single player then just enable the creative menu and give yourselves the best mining tools. The default game is designed as a progression and with the new system you will have to progress through all the quality levels of stone and then start over and progress through all the quality level of iron and then start over and progress through all the quality levels of steel. There isn't going to be high quality top tier mining and building tools by Day 2 in Alpha 21 unless you use the creative menu. There isn't really an effective method of rushing to the top of a particular crafting skill tree since you can't control what magazines you will find so you will spend some time at each stage of tool quality and tier. I personally enjoy the progressive nature of the game and am fine with it being a slow but steady growth of my character and abilities but it sounds like you guys can't stand playing with the low level stuff and are perhaps playing the game more like a sandbox anyway. To be fair, when I bought it (after watching the game for several years) it was a sandbox. And I don't necessarily mind the progressive nature of the game for weapons/armor, but if you've ever spent several hours mining with stone tools (or even low level iron) you'd know how frustrating and unproductive it is. I know most people won't spend multiple hours mining in the first week (heck, from watching youtubers it seems like I do more mining in the first week then they'll do in a 100+ day playthrough) but it's been the way I've played for years, and it's basically going away now. Like I said, I usually have 30k+ cobblestone by day 7, and spend the night of day 5, all of day 6, and most of day 7 building (sometimes not even finishing what I was building before horde night starts, and I always play on 2 hour days) so I know I'm not exactly a typical player. But it was the building/tower defense aspect that brought me to the game, and that's what I enjoy, so that's what I do. The fact that the devs seem to want to minimize/disincentivize that style of play is their prerogative, and I've certainly gotten more than my share of enjoyment out of a game I got for $7, but I can't help but feel a bit sad/disappointed that they've decided to go in a way that severely hampers my enjoyment of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFT2020 Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 You can mod the game if you want to. I don't mod that aspect (like Roland, I like the slow progression), but I do on occasion build the bigger bases or build one from scratch. However, until I am ready to do the mining necessary to support such a large project, I have a temporary base I setup until I am ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Vaeliorin said: To be fair, when I bought it (after watching the game for several years) it was a sandbox. And I don't necessarily mind the progressive nature of the game for weapons/armor, but if you've ever spent several hours mining with stone tools (or even low level iron) you'd know how frustrating and unproductive it is. I know most people won't spend multiple hours mining in the first week (heck, from watching youtubers it seems like I do more mining in the first week then they'll do in a 100+ day playthrough) but it's been the way I've played for years, and it's basically going away now. Like I said, I usually have 30k+ cobblestone by day 7, and spend the night of day 5, all of day 6, and most of day 7 building (sometimes not even finishing what I was building before horde night starts, and I always play on 2 hour days) so I know I'm not exactly a typical player. But it was the building/tower defense aspect that brought me to the game, and that's what I enjoy, so that's what I do. The fact that the devs seem to want to minimize/disincentivize that style of play is their prerogative, and I've certainly gotten more than my share of enjoyment out of a game I got for $7, but I can't help but feel a bit sad/disappointed that they've decided to go in a way that severely hampers my enjoyment of the game. To be doubly fair, the game has always been envisioned as a progression but the progression has always been able to be easily circumvented and rushed by those who wanted to do that. It still can be circumvented and rushed but you will have to do it by blatantly enabling the creative mode rather than exploiting the loopholes that once allowed people to rush the progression. The game can still be played as a pure sandbox but that is going to be increasingly through the use of creative mode. Remember that just because you use creative mode, it doesn't mean you have to fully use it for everything. Someone like me enjoys using a wood base for the first bloodmoon and then a cobblestone base for the next two to three, and then a concrete base and finally a steel base for the higher bloodmoons. So I probably would never enable the creative mode since the amount of mining I need to do in the beginning is minimal. By time I'm going for concrete it is around day 30 and I've progressed to the point where I'm ready-- and (IMO) getting a concrete base for the first few bloodmoons is totally overkill defense-wise and makes them so boring (for me). Someone like you who enjoys mining but only with the best tools and wants to get to concrete as early as possible and is probably going for a much more massive build than I might use the creative menu only for getting those tools and that it. Then there is sure to be someone who hates mining in any form and they just want the blocks. They can open the creative menu and take 20,000 concrete blocks out and get to building without going through the grind of mining and crafting those blocks. In single player I don't see any harm in using the creative mode as much or as little as you wish in order to make the game a fun sandbox experience. In this way those that want a progression to the game can do that and those that want less rules and more sandbox can option in the creative mode to get that. In fact, if it was my game I would re-label "Creative Mode" in the options to "Sandbox Mode". That would remove any doubt about what option to toggle in order to get the full sandbox gameplay back into the game. Edited April 11, 2023 by Roland (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crypted Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 (edited) To me I like progression In 7 Days To Die because I don't want to go from a stone tool to a steel tool in less than five days, It just makes the game get boring faster. I can definitely see why some people would want to get better tools early on because of the bloodmoons and big bases and all. Edited April 11, 2023 by Crypted (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Crow Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 53 minutes ago, Crypted said: To me I like progression In 7 Days To Die because I don't want to go from a stone tool to a steel tool in less than five days, It just makes the game get boring faster. I can definitely see why some people would want to do that because of the bloodmoons and big bases and all. Some of this should be mitigated with the new learning system in A21, but there's still always looting such items as well. One thing you can do is keep yourself out of higher level biomes for a longer period of time, or restrict yourself to looting only certain types of containers until you reach self-set levels. 21 hours ago, bobrpggamer said: Yeah I forgot the Iron and duct tape to fix all of your tools with repair kits. I am OK with using stone tools for a while but wrenches and hammers are the best things to have early on, and I think they drop fairly early in loot. Clicking the stone axe to repair and too build is kind of irritating I agree. As far a Salvage Operations, It took me quite a while save radiators and headlights and not to sell them for a few bucks. I even used to scrap radiators and batteries, I did not know you could smelt directly, which was a waste of lead and brass. For building a large base you need forges (a lot of them), cement mixers and workbenches. Without being able to get these from perks, I do not know how long it will be to find them in loot. Which is why I wish to keep the perks & skills the way they are. You won't have to find the workstations in A21 though, you'll just need to find enough magazines in the appropriate trees in order to build them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 18 minutes ago, Old Crow said: Some of this should be mitigated with the new learning system in A21, but there's still always looting such items as well. One thing you can do is keep yourself out of higher level biomes for a longer period of time, or restrict yourself to looting only certain types of containers until you reach self-set levels. This is a great point also for those wanting to find the better gear earlier. You can still go into the tougher biomes and find better stuff and you might prefer this method to cracking open the creative mode. Those who like to craft their own gear before they find better should steer clear of the tougher biomes as Old Crow suggested. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowDog1942 Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 10 minutes ago, Roland said: This is a great point also for those wanting to find the better gear earlier. You can still go into the tougher biomes and find better stuff and you might prefer this method to cracking open the creative mode. Those who like to craft their own gear before they find better should steer clear of the tougher biomes as Old Crow suggested. what if i like everything handed to me easily on day 1 and i dont want to be a creative mode cheater or stoop so low as to turn down the difficulty. TFP have ruined my playstyle! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 2 minutes ago, SnowDog1942 said: what if i like everything handed to me easily on day 1 and i dont want to be a creative mode cheater or stoop so low as to turn down the difficulty. TFP have ruined my playstyle! Send me a join game invite and I'll come into your game and give you everything you want. ...er....on second thought.... Send Meganoth a join game invite 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowDog1942 Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 1 minute ago, Roland said: Send me a join game invite and I'll come into your game and give you everything you want. ...er....on second thought.... Send Meganoth a join game invite Bring your banana hammock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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