The question is... where are the zombies?

[theFlu]

57 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Because I sometimes make mistakes like everyone else

Yeh, I know, it's horrible.. I once thought I was wrong, but that was a mistake. What a disgrace that was!

Just messing with ya

[pApA^LeGBa]

4 player MP only is a pain in the butt btw. Sadly there is a bunch of good games with that restrictions lately. Wich means we either have to deceide wich 2 of us can´t play it or we don´t play it at all.

[Matt115]

20 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

4 player MP only is a pain in the butt btw. Sadly there is a bunch of good games with that restrictions lately. Wich means we either have to deceide wich 2 of us can´t play it or we don´t play it at all.

It's good thing - cod zombies 4 players,  l4d1 4 players etc So it's pretty fun. i usually play only with my friend so... idk even how it's possible to play in 8 

[AtomicUs5000]

I think you guys are having a communication breakdown, mixing up games that require 4 players and games that are up to 4 players.

[Sellsents]

No matter if movie or game, I always liked my zombies classic romero style, very plentiful, slowly, stupid and only to kill when you aimed right for the head. I can´t stand the smart zombies. Why does it always have to be "special zombies" for game designers, I don´t get it.  As if "special" zombies like the demolition guy makes the game any better. The only thing they do is making the game more annoying, because they do unreasonable damage to your defenses and buildings. You grind and farm a lot to be able to finally get some defenses up and running and if you accomplished that goal they get destroyed immediatly. For what? Just because some people feel the game isn´t hard or grindy enough? But how hard can a game be if there are only a handfull of zombies? Zombies becoming dangerous in numbers. If there are no hordes, almost no zombies in the world, how can that world be dangerous then? The special zombies are no replacement for the overall lack of generall zombies. Right now it is as if the designers have choosen to reduce zombies more and more with every update. And the remaining ones now need to make unnecessary damage and be smart.

 

I am beeing honest here. Without mods I wouldn´t play the game anymore. The game has a great building system, farming, looting, leveling and crafting is fun, the houses are getting better and more realistic with every update, the quests are ok and I just love love love trader Jen. She is my favorite.  But the zombies are driving me nuts and so does the lack of content and without mods, which give me this extras, I would have already quitted. New cars, new decorations, new workstations. Why still no fishing? Why can´t I dry meat or craft caned food? Why is there no rain collector? Why is Farming and cooking so limited. Why can´t I raise chickens or other animals? Why can´t I produce my own honey? Why does this game has no seasons? This is stuff I expect a survival game to have. Do not get me wrong, I think the developers did a great job on the game so far, but I think its time to get more content out that expands the overall gameplay.  I personally do not care about special zombies that are more immersive breaking then actually usefull or this new bandits or the whole gun here and there and everywhere thing. I just want content that I can actually use in my survival world that makes sense for the genre I play.

 

Its sad that I have to dowload a mod for beeing able to see actuall zombies around my base. At least there should be an ingame option to turn more zombies on and the specials, ferals off. This would at least be a big step forward.

[pApA^LeGBa]

8 hours ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

I think you guys are having a communication breakdown, mixing up games that require 4 players and games that are up to 4 players.

 

I mean up to only 4 players sucks. We had short periods where we had 10 players on our private 7 days server.

[asmosnuts]

Unfortunately we are well into Resi Evil and the ilk in terms of "special" zombies. The yoof have decreed it so ( " I want bigger and badder zombies and i want them NOW, oh and make some green, some jumpy and some spitty and give me everything i need from day 1. I dont have time for slow zombies inexorably destroying all of my hard work and tearing me to bite sized chunks!!!" )

     The mindset and lack of imagination is staggering , but no , see that bloke? he died with a colossal bomb strapped to him which totally coincidentally will explode right before your walls unless you hit him with large amounts of heavy fire before he gets here.

    Now im all for disbelieving willy suspension, but my imagination just begins to shut down at the bright colours and explody zombies.( Tongue firmly in cheek before the keyboard road warriors weigh in and , of course, our resident apologist!!!)

[Nevergrey]

11 hours ago, Sellsents said:

Why does this game has no seasons?

If there would be seasons there could be special Zombies for every season. And I don't talk about Zombie bikini girls and undead red nosed Reindeers now.... 🙂

 

Oh, wait ... Zombie bikini girls? ☺️

 

Typical example would be Zombie bears. Most likely you would see them in Spring, when they are even more aggressive because of hunger, and in Summer - but not in Winter. In Winter you'd probably see more roaming Zombie wolfpacks.

 

Like in Subsistence seasons could also effect your stamina (heat slows you down and dehydrates you quicker). When there is more rain in autumn, you can find more water then (puddles), but in Summer you can cross lakes on foot because of the low water level. And so on...

 

You get the idea.  

 

And, most important: Can we have hordes of Zombie bikini girls please?

 

😉

[Rince]

Zombie bikini girls?

 

In the distant future can we have a beach DLC with beach themed zombies, POI and items?

 

Even with the distant future tag, will surely come before Dead Island 2.  😅

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, Nevergrey said:

 

22 minutes ago, Rince said:

Zombie bikini girls?

 

In the distant future can we have a beach DLC with beach themed zombies, POI and items?

 

Even with the distant future tag, will surely come before Dead Island 2.  😅

Well yoga girls is more likly because navesgane don't have soooo bye bye beach themed welcome redneck theme!

1 hour ago, Nevergrey said:

If there would be seasons there could be special Zombies for every season. And I don't talk about Zombie bikini girls and undead red nosed Reindeers now.... 🙂

 

Oh, wait ... Zombie bikini girls? ☺️

 

Typical example would be Zombie bears. Most likely you would see them in Spring, when they are even more aggressive because of hunger, and in Summer - but not in Winter. In Winter you'd probably see more roaming Zombie wolfpacks.

 

Like in Subsistence seasons could also effect your stamina (heat slows you down and dehydrates you quicker). When there is more rain in autumn, you can find more water then (puddles), but in Summer you can cross lakes on foot because of the low water level. And so on...

 

You get the idea.  

 

And, most important: Can we have hordes of Zombie bikini girls please?

 

😉

Well people play maybe 20- 30 days on one map probably so.... this would be pointless because only 5% would see this.

@SnowDog1942 i think nervergrey can be your next friend XD

[PoloPoPo]

I have only read the opening post of that topic and I cannot agree more. The reason that more Zombies cannot be added due to performance issues seems like bs to me. Currently I am playing darkness falls that has much more Zombies and animals alive (or spawning more frequently, don't know), there are Zombies everywhere, there are huge random hordes anytime and guess what... exactly same performance like vanilla game for me.

[8_Hussars]

12 hours ago, Sellsents said:

 Why does this game has no seasons?

Was just listening to a radio program discussing Seasons as a cultural construct.  The concept of four seasons is not universal across the globe.

7D2D in fact has two seasons...

The Rainy Season and the Not So Rainy Season, both experienced multiple times per in game day hour.   😉

[Nevergrey]

1 hour ago, 8_Hussars said:

The Rainy Season and the Not So Rainy Season, both experienced multiple times per in game day hour.   😉

Rain? Multiple times per hour? In Navezgane? Then I missed something...

2 hours ago, PoloPoPo said:

I have only read the opening post of that topic and I cannot agree more. The reason that more Zombies cannot be added due to performance issues seems like bs to me. Currently I am playing darkness falls that has much more Zombies and animals alive (or spawning more frequently, don't know), there are Zombies everywhere, there are huge random hordes anytime and guess what... exactly same performance like vanilla game for me.

Reducing Zombies because of performance would make sense to me in coop where every player get his/her 'own' zombies. But I don't see this issue in (offline) solo play. Never had performance problems with too much zombies apart from Blood moon nights (maybe just because there are many Zombies grouped in a small radius).

 

Unity should be able to handle much more Zombies on the map without performance drops, even when voxel based.

 

I started Darkness Falls too a few days ago and regarding the amount of Zombies it is better than Vanilla. We don't need another Painkiller, but Zombie Apocalypse should be more 'swarmed'.   

[Roland]

14 hours ago, Sellsents said:

Right now it is as if the designers have chosen to reduce zombies more and more with every update.

 

And yet the truth is that A20 has increased the zombies and also added the feral sense option that brings more zombies in from your surroundings thus increasing them even more. I'm not saying that A20 increased the numbers enough for full satisfaction but your statement that every update has been a decrease is not true and once they have finished adding things that cost performance they will be able to finalize their zombie spawn numbers and I bet they will be higher than they are currently.

 

Also, they increased sleeper populations quite a bit for A17 and were met with a huge backlash of complaints that there were too many zombies packed in the houses. I, personally, thought people were crazy for complaining about that but there was no denying that a lot of people hated more zombies inside POIs and it was scaled back in A18. 

 

So the number of zombies have fluctuated over time as one would expect for a game that is still under active development.

 

14 hours ago, Sellsents said:

Its sad that I have to dowload a mod for beeing able to see actuall zombies around my base.

 

Hard disagreement on this one. It is something to celebrate and thank the developers for opening up their code and making it so easy to mod. The things you don't care for other people like. The things you really want and think are integral to a zombie survival game others feel meh about. The developers know they can't please everyone and they have a plan for the scope of this game and they will stick to it but also allow modders the ability to increase the scope of the game in ways they wish.

 

So be glad that you get to download a mod to get the features you think are important. I certainly am glad for mods, modders, and the way TFP planned from the beginning to make the game a playground for modding. You say you would have quit this game without mods. Fantastic. You have done exactly what the TFP developers hoped that you would do: Find further enjoyment of the game through the mods they always planned and hoped would emerge for the game. Nobody feels bad or ashamed that the default game would not have kept your attention forever.

 

In short, on behalf of TFP, I would like to say, "You're Welcome!!" for the fantastic experiences you have gotten from using mods. 

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, PoloPoPo said:

I have only read the opening post of that topic and I cannot agree more. The reason that more Zombies cannot be added due to performance issues seems like bs to me. Currently I am playing darkness falls that has much more Zombies and animals alive (or spawning more frequently, don't know), there are Zombies everywhere, there are huge random hordes anytime and guess what... exactly same performance like vanilla game for me.

 

Well, would you have read further you would have read my explanation. In short, the numbers of zombies is geared to a minimum spec machine and to 8 player multiplayer. Why? Because TFP has to guarantee what it promises on the steam page for default vanilla.

 

That a mod can exeed that by ignoring minimum specs is an advantage to all of us players. But no counter-proof, because I'm quite sure a minumum spec machine would not be able to play DF.

 

Something like DF can't be vanilla default. Not at the moment.

 

[Matt115]

11 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

And yet the truth is that A20 has increased the zombies and also added the feral sense option that brings more zombies in from your surroundings thus increasing them even more. I'm not saying that A20 increased the numbers enough for full satisfaction but your statement that every update has been a decrease is not true and once they have finished adding things that cost performance they will be able to finalize their zombie spawn numbers and I bet they will be higher than they are currently.

 

Also, they increased sleeper populations quite a bit for A17 and were met with a huge backlash of complaints that there were too many zombies packed in the houses. I, personally, thought people were crazy for complaining about that but there was no denying that a lot of people hated more zombies inside POIs and it was scaled back in A18. 

 

So the number of zombies have fluctuated over time as one would expect for a game that is still under active development.

 

 

Hard disagreement on this one. It is something to celebrate and thank the developers for opening up their code and making it so easy to mod. The things you don't care for other people like. The things you really want and think are integral to a zombie survival game others feel meh about. The developers know they can't please everyone and they have a plan for the scope of this game and they will stick to it but also allow modders the ability to increase the scope of the game in ways they wish.

 

So be glad that you get to download a mod to get the features you think are important. I certainly am glad for mods, modders, and the way TFP planned from the beginning to make the game a playground for modding. You say you would have quit this game without mods. Fantastic. You have done exactly what the TFP developers hoped that you would do: Find further enjoyment of the game through the mods they always planned and hoped would emerge for the game. Nobody feels bad or ashamed that the default game would not have kept your attention forever.

 

In short, on behalf of TFP, I would like to say, "You're Welcome!!" for the fantastic experiences you have gotten from using mods. 

1. about A17 - and people were right. Even now in few POI number of zombie is too big. i will try to explain : " people was complaining about small number of enemy snipers in our game so in remake in mission 5 we increase number of sniper into 8 ( but rest of the game have usualy 0-1 snipers when all game have 20 missions). So increase number of zombies in POI don't help - because streets are empty and put 3 zombies into small room looks... stupid. 

2.  Well 8 players idea was... wrong - idk how even have so many friends that have this same game - maybe streamers or yt- guys. 

3. again modders- mods are is not solving problem - it's like - your friend have terrible job so you suggest him to start drinking in bar .  When i see mods made for 7dtd i think " what the hell go wrong??". So  mods will just change 7dtd into enemy front ( game killed by mods) that help.  I know it's 5-6 years to late- but i think the best option here would just - reduce player number into 4 , focus on expension packs after gold and if mods could be added in future cool if not well happens

4 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Well, would you have read further you would have read my explanation. In short, the numbers of zombies is geared to a minimum spec machine and to 8 player multiplayer. Why? Because TFP has to guarantee what it promises on the steam page for default vanilla.

 

That a mod can exeed that by ignoring minimum specs is an advantage to all of us players. But no counter-proof, because I'm quite sure a minumum spec machine would not be able to play DF.

 

Something like DF can't be vanilla default. Not at the moment.

 

Well i agree that TFP guarantee this but still - 8 eight people is too much. 

[Roland]

19 hours ago, Matt115 said:

this zombie in yellow thirt

 

How do you think the unthinkable?

 

Spoiler

with an itheberg!

 

[meganoth]

30 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

1. about A17 - and people were right. Even now in few POI number of zombie is too big. i will try to explain : " people was complaining about small number of enemy snipers in our game so in remake in mission 5 we increase number of sniper into 8 ( but rest of the game have usualy 0-1 snipers when all game have 20 missions). So increase number of zombies in POI don't help - because streets are empty and put 3 zombies into small room looks... stupid. 

2.  Well 8 players idea was... wrong - idk how even have so many friends that have this same game - maybe streamers or yt- guys. 

3. again modders- mods are is not solving problem - it's like - your friend have terrible job so you suggest him to start drinking in bar .  When i see mods made for 7dtd i think " what the hell go wrong??". So  mods will just change 7dtd into enemy front ( game killed by mods) that help.  I know it's 5-6 years to late- but i think the best option here would just - reduce player number into 4 , focus on expension packs after gold and if mods could be added in future cool if not well happens

Well i agree that TFP guarantee this but still - 8 eight people is too much. 

 

Whether I agree or not (I don't), the decision for 8 players was made and can't be easily changed retroactively without inviting lawsuits or pitchforks. Also changing it to 4 players max will not suffice, they would have to increase minimum specs as well to be able to increase zombie numbers massively.

 

But I'm always glad that you are here to tell the developers how many bad decisions they have made to have created one of the best selling indie-games. They must be absolutely crushed with despair about their failure. 😁

 

[Matt115]

7 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Whether I agree or not (I don't), the decision for 8 players was made and can't be easily changed retroactively without inviting lawsuits or pitchforks

 

But I'm always glad that you are here to tell the developers how many bad decisions they have made to have created one of the best selling indie-games. They must be absolutely crashed about their failure. 😁

 

1. I know about that. I just complain about that for "future " because i don't think TFP will end with making games after finishing 7dtd.

2. 7dtd is not failure but some thing can be done better right?  let's take biding of issac for example - some thing were better some worst but most of them were fixed in next dlc/ new games in series.  COH2 it good  RTS but people complaning about commanders so they will be change in COH3  etc So - Mount and blade is one of the best selling indie game too but warband change a lot of things better - well TFP said there will be not 7DTD 2. So - they can just make idk RTS, Racer ,  hobo similuator ,whaterever but ..- until there is a chance for let  say 7dtd pirates i will complain because i hope thing will be avoided in future.  Well LBD was added and now is scrapped right?

[Jugginator]

You're just missing them. As suggested, feral sense will make sure you aren't left alone outside of POI's. End of day 1 starting in a snow biome in a test new test run I started a little over an hour ago:

 

And I avoided quite a few, likely could have had 150-160 kills if not, but I was testing balance for something.

[Roland]

2 hours ago, Jugginator said:

You're just missing them.

Well I think we all miss them and want them back in greater numbers… 😉

[AtomicUs5000]

Regarding the player count, I know a few streamers who stream during the day but then at night everybody gets together in Discord and they start up their community servers. Most of the time it is over 4 players. I think 8 is better because you can have 2 rival teams of 4 and that is great fun.

[meganoth]

15 hours ago, Matt115 said:

1. I know about that. I just complain about that for "future " because i don't think TFP will end with making games after finishing 7dtd.

2. 7dtd is not failure but some thing can be done better right?  let's take biding of issac for example - some thing were better some worst but most of them were fixed in next dlc/ new games in series.  COH2 it good  RTS but people complaning about commanders so they will be change in COH3  etc So - Mount and blade is one of the best selling indie game too but warband change a lot of things better - well TFP said there will be not 7DTD 2. So - they can just make idk RTS, Racer ,  hobo similuator ,whaterever but ..- until there is a chance for let  say 7dtd pirates i will complain because i hope thing will be avoided in future.  Well LBD was added and now is scrapped right?

 

But the problem is to find the good decisions. If those were obvious all developers would always create excellent bestselling games.

 

And your method of finding "good desicions" is fundamentally flawed. You look at a feature and when a successful game you like does that differently you post TFP should do that too. Well, guess what, there are dozens of games who made the same decision as that successful game and they turned out bad.

 

Example 1) You once said 7D2D should be much darker because l4d, DS, ... are dark and they are successful. But there are lots and lots of unsuccessful dark games as well. The intelligent move is to find a big market niche, not follow everyone else. If 7D2D had followed all those dark games into their full niche, maybe it would have entered a saturated market and never reached the success it has now.

 

Example 2) You said recently that 8 players was a bad idea because all the other successful games you played have 4 players. But maybe 7D2D did get more players simply **because** it built for 8 and even allowed for more players unsupported. Market niche again. By the way, TFP has numbers that show them how many people actually play MP with >4 players. They know a relevant fact about 7D2D players, we don't.

 

Example 3) You argue against mods and name Enemy Front as a game that was killed by mods. So what? Bethesda games, minecraft and many other games are evergreen smash hits because of mods. In fact I myself don't know a single game that did worse because of mods but only games that got longevity through mods. So why should TFP look at Enemy Front for guidance but not at Bethesda or Minecraft or all the other games were mods didn't hurt at all ? 

 

 

 

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

But the problem is to find the good decisions. If those were obvious all developers would always create excellent bestselling games.

 

And your method of finding "good desicions" is fundamentally flawed. You look at a feature and when a successful game you like does that differently you post TFP should do that too. Well, guess what, there are dozens of games who made the same decision as that successful game and they turned out bad.

 

Example 1) You once said 7D2D should be much darker because l4d, DS, ... are dark and they are successful. But there are lots and lots of unsuccessful dark games as well. The intelligent move is to find a big market niche, not follow everyone else. If 7D2D had followed all those dark games into their full niche, maybe it would have entered a saturated market and never reached the success it has now.

 

Example 2) You said recently that 8 players was a bad idea because all the other successful games you played have 4 players. But maybe 7D2D did get more players simply **because** it built for 8 and even allowed for more players unsupported. Market niche again. By the way, TFP has numbers that show them how many people actually play MP with >4 players. They know a relevant fact about 7D2D players, we don't.

 

Example 3) You argue against mods and name Enemy Front as a game that was killed by mods. So what? Bethesda games, minecraft and many other games are evergreen smash hits because of mods. In fact I myself don't know a single game that did worse because of mods but only games that got longevity through mods. So why should TFP look at Enemy Front for guidance but not at Bethesda or Minecraft or all the other games were mods didn't hurt at all ? 

 

 

 

1. Yep it's true and i'm 100% sure about that.  if you mean by success a lot of players bought and play in this game. But you have game like Pathologic - it visual, gameplay and story success but.... a small number of people bouught this game. Why? Because this is not game for everyone, Well... even more. But it was success.  I agree - if 7dtd would be  much darker  maybe 1/8 of actual playbase would bought this game. But if it would done good  7dtd would be even better know for players , more info about 7dtd in media etc. Well this is hard to say "what if...." and there is no chance for 7DTD 2 so it's a little bit pointless

2.  I don't have number - is just see that people saying number of zombie is small - you wrote about min spec for 8 players , in diffrent POI right? So if number of player would be reduced to  4 it would allow to add more zombies on streets right? Ofc this would change  a lot - zombie hp and dmg etc. So... probably nobody expect in let say 2014 that 7dtd will get HD redesign. But IF there will be idk - sci fi , medieval , pirate whatever 7DTD i future i hope there will be more zombies - probably  diffrent solution how to implement zombie would be use so x2 more zombie will be possible with 8 players. 

3. Bethesda game are smash because.... this is TES and Fallout- i think when SKYRIM was annouced nobody was thinking about mods but about - what will happens now? ( i mean lore and story). TES was game series with expended lore - dragons were something strange because there was skeleton dragon in redguard so this mean that queen.... ( this same thing with SW) so people liked this universe. I'm not into Fallout so i will not say a lot of about this series - i just remember that F3 was bad game. If mods were imposible or hard to made for skyrim we would get   TES 6  probably MUCH MUCH FASTER. But we don't get TES6 yet  so... story is death after last dlc released but you can play with  NEKO ANIME BIG TITS GIRLS MOD! xd  Minecraft is... just for fun - i think nobody care about minecraft lore. So minecraft is like.... Lego as game so mods for this game are like "bootleg "sets - it is fun and nobody care if WW2 tank is near medival castle with space marines.  it will be mixed with  example 1 - if 7DTD get darker setting it would be still got longevity. How? Lore + theories. Example - you find  dead body of girl in wardrobe and woman zombie in rich house - you are looting this house and find a note about boy who ran away because her mother became zombie and he want to find his father to save his sis. So you can make theory that this boy was a Duke son but in this time Duke was in his cassino ( and in cassino in his office you can find woman clothes that suggest he was cheating his wife etc) so now he is mad because he feld guilty about that. And every updated = more lore so 7DTD would be still alive even after years because people will still looking for clues. But - when i see how 7DTD looks like i feel something go wrong - even star wars and  skyrim have more "in this  same style " mods - immersive armors and creature for skyrim or  the clonse wars mod for SW batllefront 2. What 7dtd have? Darkness fall mod with succbuss and laser guns , snufkin weapon expansion or snufkin custom server side zombies which looks like enemies from some asia  F2P bootleg of CS 

[pApA^LeGBa]

I am sick of games that we can´t play because we are 5 people who pretty much always play together. Ofc there is games that not evereyone likes and we might end up only being three but that doesn´t happen too often. If everyone comes together we are even over the 8 player limit. That is pretty rare though.

 

And there is a lot of people who enjoy playing on public servers.

 

Saying the 8 players idea was wrong because you don´t have enough friends playing this or don´t like public servers is a pretty egocentric view.

 

But there should be a solution where the spawns are adjusted to the number of players so that the game simply doesn´t assume it´s 8 players and tries to optimize for perfomance for no reason at all. Or simply a slider in the menu so everyone can deceide for themselves. It already existed and was taken out for balancing purposes. But someone from the team or the mods back then said it´s very likely to make a comeback. I think it was Roland, but don´t nail me on that. It´s been quite a while since then.

 

@meganoth DF doesn run on a i5 6600/GTX1060 6GB/16 GB RAM pretty well on medium. Can´t tell for older CPU´s as that´s the weakest in the group. That´s not too far away from a 2.9Ghz quadcore as listed in minimum. (Yeah, RAM and GPU are way worse in the minimum specs, but we all know that the CPU is the most importnant in this game) And tbh a CPU like the i5 6600 should be the minimum specs. We look at least like it´s  another 2 years i would assume, including beta. Making 2015 the minimum specs wouldnt´really hurt. Maybe even later tbh. Unless they can optimize it really really well ofc.