Scyris Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) So I was in a mine right? Just started it, feral comes in, its early game, wasn't much room to evade, I died to a single feral because it couldn't make up its mind about standing or crouching, and it was able to hit me with 0 animation as it teleported between the 2 while I was unable to hit it the hits just didn't register as it was teleporting between standing and crouching. This animation needs to go, or it needs to be fixed, there needs to be a in between animation, or some delay where they cannot attack when crouching or standing for a few seconds. I cannot count how many times i've gotten cheap shotted with the zombie having 0 attack animation when going between the 2 walk modes. Not to mention they seem to have double the range too when crouched for some reason, you'd think they'd have LESS range not more. At least it feels like they have a longer reach when crouched for some reason. Anyone else having issues with this? I can't be the only one, its just really starting to aggravate me to no end because there is basically no counter to it if they close to you, your getting hit with a 0 animation attack from the zombie. Now you could say Git Gud (I know someone will say it now), but sometimes your just in a bad spot. Edited March 20, 2022 by Scyris (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pApA^LeGBa Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) Yeah, it´s annoying. Literally a death trap when that happens. I started to avoid fighting when there is even a slight chance of them getting stuck. I rather retreat and lure them elsewhere if i can, even if that´s timeconsuming sometimes. Even started to cheese with putting frames down so they can´t get to me because there is a chance they get stuck if they get trough the door. And i really don´t like that kind of cheesing with the frames. Edited March 20, 2022 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDudorino Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 It is super buggy and I've gotten hit plenty of times by 0-frame position change attacks but they JUST added the function, right? So I figure it'll be straightened out before long. The way it works against you in combat actually isn't even my biggest complaint about this feature. It's the way zombies routinely get trapped and frozen in falling positions in crouchable spots. Happens every time I hit the Crack-A-Book store with the boss/treasure room you drop into. I figure that's not an intended feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doughphunghus Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 I read on these forums they just put in the crouching to get the feature "in" for a21 (I guess to get through 1 block holes?) and they know the animation transition is missing and needs to be put in, but none of the models had it already and (my guess) its a fair amount of work to add in 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFT2020 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 @doughphunghusexplained it pretty well. faatal had the AI ready to start testing in Alpha 20, but the animation was still a work in progress. faatal then decided to go ahead and include it in Alpha 20 so they can start bug testing this new feature. In order to do that, he had to utilize the current animation in the game which is what we are seeing in Alpha 20. I believe this was discussed during one of the Alpha 20 development streams (if I am not mistaken). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 On 3/20/2022 at 12:38 AM, Scyris said: its just really starting to aggravate me to no end Please remember that you are playing an unfinished game. The crouching feature is still a work in progress. Part of playing a game while it is concurrently in development is that issues such as this will come up. Thanks for your feedback. It is a known issue and there are plans to continue development. If you understand that there are still features that are not completely done yet it should help you feel less aggravated. But if not, it might be best for your blood pressure to wait until all features are finalized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyris Posted March 21, 2022 Author Share Posted March 21, 2022 Just now, Roland said: Please remember that you are playing an unfinished game. The crouching feature is still a work in progress. Part of playing a game while it is concurrently in development is that issues such as this will come up. Thanks for your feedback. It is a known issue and there are plans to continue development. If you understand that there are still features that are not completely done yet it should help you feel less aggravated. But if not, it might be best for your blood pressure to wait until all features are finalized. Oh I know that, its just its not often they release a feature that this... whats the word.. undone? Even for an alpha, I been around since a9-10 ish. Glad to know it should be fixed for a21 though. How about letting players have 1 block crouch walking too? I know you see thru the world, but couldn't something be done code wise so it renders x untouched blocks around the player when crouched? So you cannot see thru the world? or better, add a "crawl" animation where the char gets on their stomache this way you shouldn't be able to see thru the terrain. Kinda gonna be unfair in my eyes if zombies can walk thru 1 block holes but the player who should be easly able to do that as they are not a rotting corpse can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Just now, Scyris said: How about letting players have 1 block crouch walking too? I don't think any entities currently have 1 block crouch walking. Can snakes even move through 1-block holes horizontally? Zombies crouch to move through greater than 1 block but less than 2 block holes now. Currently, I believe we can already crouch and move through any hole the zombies can and they can now as of A20 move through the same tight spaces we could always crouch through but which they previously could not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyris Posted March 21, 2022 Author Share Posted March 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Roland said: I don't think any entities currently have 1 block crouch walking. Can snakes even move through 1-block holes horizontally? Zombies crouch to move through greater than 1 block but less than 2 block holes now. Currently, I believe we can already crouch and move through any hole the zombies can and they can now as of A20 move through the same tight spaces we could always crouch through but which they previously could not. Ahh so thats what it is, they can get thru 1.5 block gaps like we can. Well either way, I hope when zombies being able to walk thru 1 block gaps like its planned is out, that players will be allowed to do the same thing, as I said, i'd be silly if a rotting corpse can do it but the player cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, Scyris said: Kinda gonna be unfair in my eyes if zombies can walk thru 1 block holes but the player who should be easly able to do that as they are not a rotting corpse can't. I would love for us to be able to move through a 1-block hole horizontally once again. But I wouldn't see it as unfair. Zombies have so many disadvantages compared to us that I'm okay with them gaining an ability or two that we can't do. I don't think that player abilities and zombie abilities need to be symmetrical. If you think about it, when they add the "play as a zombie" feature, it would make it that much more fun to play in that mode to be able to slither through 1-block holes when you can't do it as a living human. 2 minutes ago, Scyris said: i'd be silly if a rotting corpse can do it but the player cannot. faatal mentioned that it is a balance to being able to hold a jeep, 40 tons of concrete, a gyrocopter, and 30 trees worth of lumber in your backpack. Sure, you might get through normally but your backpack gets stuck 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFT2020 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Scyris said: Ahh so thats what it is, they can get thru 1.5 block gaps like we can. Well either way, I hope when zombies being able to walk thru 1 block gaps like its planned is out, that players will be allowed to do the same thing, as I said, i'd be silly if a rotting corpse can do it but the player cannot. As Roland mentioned, there are a lot of things we can do that the Z's can't do. The only difference is, I haven't heard them complain once that I can build reinforced walls that they can't get through, or shoot them with a gun, or place a landmine on the ground for them to step on, or...... 😄 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Data Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 4 hours ago, Roland said: Please remember that you are playing an unfinished game. The crouching feature is still a work in progress. Part of playing a game while it is concurrently in development is that issues such as this will come up. Thanks for your feedback. It is a known issue and there are plans to continue development. If you understand that there are still features that are not completely done yet it should help you feel less aggravated. But if not, it might be best for your blood pressure to wait until all features are finalized. thats true and we all know that, but it would be best if TFP fixed broken/bugged things 1st before introducing new bugged broken things 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 31 minutes ago, Data said: thats true and we all know that, but it would be best if TFP fixed broken/bugged things 1st before introducing new bugged broken things Well that would be best for players who only showed up to play a game and either don't understand or don't care that the game is being actively developed. For those of us who recognize that the game is unfinished and there are a lot of moving parts that are going to sometimes remain in an unfinished state from one update to the next or even across a few updates, what we see as best is for the developers to be allowed to move forward without having to pause and spend extra wasted time fixing every single thing because some people don't want to be confronted by anything broken or bugged during their playtime. In my opinion they spend too much time polishing up these alphas that are dead-end builds. Think about how much time they spent polishing and optimizing Alpha 15 (for example). Who plays that any longer? None of these alpha versions are the final game but you want them to put in the time and resources to make each one a finalized product before moving on to the next version. Do you know how many years that would add to development time? No...the best is to keep moving forward and make each of these stepping stones we call Alpha 19 and Alpha 20 just play "good enough" so that they can get what they need from those of us who can forgive some buggy behavior and unfinished features and give feedback for those unknown issues and what we believe to be the intended design. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pApA^LeGBa Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 In theory they can´t get trough one block openings. Reality is different. They squeeze themselves trough 1 block often enough. A single zombie in front of a 1 block opening never does it. But at a thight place when they pile up a bit in front of the 1 block gap they get trough regulary. Hopefully that glitch also gets fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Man Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 3 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said: In theory they can´t get trough one block openings. Reality is different. They squeeze themselves trough 1 block often enough. A single zombie in front of a 1 block opening never does it. But at a thight place when they pile up a bit in front of the 1 block gap they get trough regulary. Hopefully that glitch also gets fixed. Personally, they should make that behavior a feature if it's not intended. Adds more depth to the tower defense aspect. Sorta like a dam leaking before bursting. Consequences of leaving a group zeds alone for too long. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicUs5000 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 21 hours ago, Roland said: faatal mentioned that it is a balance to being able to hold a jeep, 40 tons of concrete, a gyrocopter, and 30 trees worth of lumber in your backpack. Sure, you might get through normally but your backpack gets stuck Players crawling through 1 block gaps when the backpack is empty... confirmed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pApA^LeGBa Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) @Laz Man Well if i know they are able to, i can adapt to that, no problem, wouldn´t mind it. The problem is not that they are doing it, but that i didn´t calculate with it when building. Time is precious. And that´s one of the glitches that can cost a lot of time. Edited March 22, 2022 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Man Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) On 3/21/2022 at 10:03 AM, Roland said: I would love for us to be able to move through a 1-block hole horizontally once again. But I wouldn't see it as unfair. Zombies have so many disadvantages compared to us that I'm okay with them gaining an ability or two that we can't do. I don't think that player abilities and zombie abilities need to be symmetrical. If you think about it, when they add the "play as a zombie" feature, it would make it that much more fun to play in that mode to be able to slither through 1-block holes when you can't do it as a living human. faatal mentioned that it is a balance to being able to hold a jeep, 40 tons of concrete, a gyrocopter, and 30 trees worth of lumber in your backpack. Sure, you might get through normally but your backpack gets stuck There will be cases where compromises are made for gameplay reasons and this is one of those situations in my mind where gameplay > realism. Could they add a mechanic for player crawling? Sure, but how much time will it take to do so and also update every other aspect of the game that is impacted by it? Probably a feature best planned/developed for the next game imo... Edited March 22, 2022 by Laz Man (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaeliorin Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 On 3/21/2022 at 11:38 PM, Laz Man said: Personally, they should make that behavior a feature if it's not intended. Adds more depth to the tower defense aspect. Sorta like a dam leaking before bursting. Consequences of leaving a group zeds alone for too long. The problem is that they do it even when you're actively fighting them. The number of times I've been engaged in melee with a horde of zombies at my defensive position only to have one get up from having fallen/crouching and now be inside my walls instead of outside is pretty numerous. And it's usually through a less than 1 block opening. Not a big deal if it's something weak, but if it's something strong... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinkPloyd Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 I like the new crawling behaviour. My horde base forces all the zombies to start crawling, makes head shots easier and hitting demolisher buttons much harder. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentOwlz Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 I could never AGREE more. IT HAS TO GO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamida Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 On 3/21/2022 at 2:33 PM, Roland said: I would love for us to be able to move through a 1-block hole horizontally once again. But I wouldn't see it as unfair. Zombies have so many disadvantages compared to us that I'm okay with them gaining an ability or two that we can't do. I don't think that player abilities and zombie abilities need to be symmetrical. If you think about it, when they add the "play as a zombie" feature, it would make it that much more fun to play in that mode to be able to slither through 1-block holes when you can't do it as a living human. faatal mentioned that it is a balance to being able to hold a jeep, 40 tons of concrete, a gyrocopter, and 30 trees worth of lumber in your backpack. Sure, you might get through normally but your backpack gets stuck Ok is this correct as I haven't seen it mentioned for a while. Is there for sure going to be a "play as a zombie" feature added to the game at some point. Or is it a more "We'll see" thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Gamida said: Ok is this correct as I haven't seen it mentioned for a while. Is there for sure going to be a "play as a zombie" feature added to the game at some point. Or is it a more "We'll see" thing. I'm not certain. I was going to go with "I can't say" to make it ambiguous and keep people wondering if I meant I'm not allowed to say but....I'm not in the mood. This is kind of a necroed-thread btw although nothing has changed since it was started so I guess we can keep it. Sylen is the necro thread sniper so we'll see if it withstands his scrutiny. Edited March 17, 2023 by Roland (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamida Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Roland said: I'm not certain. I was going to go with "I can't say" to make it ambiguous and keep people wondering if I meant I'm not allowed to say but....I'm not in the mood. This is kind of a necroed-thread btw although nothing has changed since it was started so I guess we can keep it. Sylen is the necro thread sniper so we'll see if it withstands his scrutiny. lol I never realized how old the posts were. I wouldn't have asked if I had seen. Carry on as usual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramethzer0 Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 Hell has truly frozen over. Something that both myself and Scryris actually agree upon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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