What am I doing wrong?

[Survior]

During alpha 19 my longest play though was like 150 days and had 7-ish deaths. Now in alpha 20 I've died 7 times in 5 days, I don't even get 7 days to die. I took over a house at the edge of a farming town, I've never built a campfire and I don't have any torches and even if I don't move,  still, my base it attacked every night. It's usually zombies, but once it was 2 brown bears, once it was a single brown bear another time it was a black wolf and yet another time it was five smaller dogs/wolves. Mind you I'm only on day 5.  That house was also ridiculous to clear out as it contained 2 feral zombies on day1.

 

It is not really fun to know that you cannot avoid death (as in the case of the two brown bears that attacked me at 4am on the 3rd day), there wasn't really anything I could do, they take something like 50 stone arrows and 10 hits with a spear (both).

 

Additionally it seems everything was nerfed, farming, stumps, skills (need more, get less).

 

I'm concerned that the Funpimps are now designing their game balance around those people with over a thousand hours in who probably play dark soul games when they are not playing 7d2d otherwise the game is heavily skewed towards 4-8 man groups and single player efforts kind of suck.  I consider being able to build the basic stuff, farm the basic stuff, cook the basic stuff and craft the basic stuff while fighting with basic abilities to be early game, but now you need to a ton of levels.

 

Funpimps by all means make your game brutal on the highest settings to challenge groups of heavily experienced players, but don't forget the the casual players and new players who probably don't find spam deaths to be enjoyable or balanced on normal settings.

 

 

[Fox]

While I haven't had the experience you had so far, (probably because I'm running a server with different settings), I have died several times so far within 20 days which is completely unusual for me, especially while only on nomad difficulty settings. It is becoming much easier as I level up though, which is still usual. In A19, I'd maybe die 2 or 3 times within the first several days and then become indestructible afterwards. Seems to me like they decided to extend it by making zombies even more spongy than they already were and do more damage than before which I've always found to be r3tarded given that they attack with their bare hands. They can't be creative, so they just force it like all devs inevitably do. I mean, those bears aren't even worth attacking at all anymore. Just run away when you see one as they're not worth 7.62mm ammo as they require a lot of shots from an AK and only provide a small amount of meat which can't even feed 1 person for a day unless you have eggs or the skills and ingredients to make something proper with it. Any other animal are far easier to deal with and are much more worth the trouble, including those illusive rabbits.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Fox (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

47 minutes ago, Survior said:

During alpha 19 my longest play though was like 150 days and had 7-ish deaths. Now in alpha 20 I've died 7 times in 5 days, I don't even get 7 days to die.

It happens from time to time. You get off to a bad start. I have over 4000 hours of gameplay and yet I was unlucky and died in the first week due to a dog horde that unfortunately showed up at the worst possible time.

 

I've been playing the game since alpha 15 and every alpha I die a few times until I get used to the new balance and mechanics. In Alpha 17 I died a lot, but I also learned a lot about how to best fight the zombies and what skills are helpful.

 

[Survior]

9 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

It happens from time to time. You get off to a bad start.

 

This was my 3rd start in alpha20, each with similar results. It's just f-ing brutal and I can't do @%$# because of the skill requirements.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Survior (see edit history)

[PoloPoPo]

What settings are you talking about? Difficulty? Biome? Feral sense on or off?

 

I play on survivalist difficulty with feral sense enabled at all times. When I don't move at night and don't make any noises my base won't be attacked in the forest biome, even if animals and zombies walk nearby.

 

That is another story in the wasteland though, where zombies knock on your door at 22 PM for no particular reason and deliver carnage until 4 AM consistently. Like horde every night.

[Survior]

1 minute ago, PoloPoPo said:

What settings are you talking about? Difficulty? Biome? Feral sense on or off?

 

I play on survivalist difficulty with feral sense enabled at all times. When I don't move at night and don't make any noises my base won't be attacked in the forest biome, even if animals and zombies walk nearby.

 

That is another story in the wasteland though, where zombies knock on your door at 22 PM for no particular reason and deliver carnage until 4 AM consistently. Like horde every night.

I'm not sure exactly what it's called but it's a "green forest biome, farmer village". Default settings, feral sense is definitively off.

[PoloPoPo]

Go to your base at 21 PM. Kill all zombies nearby. Close all doors and windows at 21:50 PM. Turn off all campfires, forges etc. and stand still until 4 AM. Nothing should attack your base.

 

You got a point that the game got harder with A20. I die a lot more frequently than I did in A19 myself but my settings are pretty hard and that's how I like it. With your settings however, you should not have your described problems. If it is not your fault maybe you just got a very unlucky spot and start.

[Survior]

11 minutes ago, PoloPoPo said:

Go to your base at 21 PM. Kill all zombies nearby. Close all doors and windows at 21:50 PM. Turn off all campfires, forges etc. and stand still until 4 AM. Nothing should attack your base.

 

You got a point that the game got harder with A20. I die a lot more frequently than I did in A19 myself but my settings are pretty hard and that's how I like it. With your settings however, you should not have your described problems. If it is not your fault maybe you just got a very unlucky spot and start.

I have none of that stuff in my base, as you advise, I have killed everything within a couple hundred meters. I have NEVER had any campfire or forge or any other "heat' from my base, not even a single torch.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Survior (see edit history)

[Deceptive Pastry]

I think I have 4 deaths by day 27. 3 of them were from a direwolf that attacked me on day 2. Would've been one death but I kept running back, hoping around on fences, thinking "just a few more hits" until I finally got him. They have SO MUCH HEALTH.

But yea, animal spawns used to be too rare, now they've gone a little too far in the other direction. And they're quite dangerous early game. At one point I had to sneak past 3 cougars in 200 meters going out for a supply crate. Also had 3 dog hordes pop up out of nowhere in the first 1-1/2 weeks.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Deceptive Pastry (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

57 minutes ago, Survior said:

This was my 3rd start in alpha20, each with similar results. It's just f-ing brutal and I can't do @%$# because of the skill requirements.

Since I don't know your play style, it's hard to give advice here. What I have learned for myself is to use the skill points at the beginning only for skills that help you in combat.

 

Maybe these two videos will help you a bit.

 

 

[Ghostlight]

3 hours ago, Survior said:

my base it attacked every night. It's usually zombies, but once it was 2 brown bears, once it was a single brown bear another time it was a black wolf and yet another time it was five smaller dogs/wolves. Mind you I'm only on day 5.

 

Well this is weird. There are (as usual) so few zombies in the world that I am not even bothering to cower in a base at night in A20, other than night #1. A few zombies and a wolf wandered past, fought each other, then the remaining zombies attacked my house to no avail for the rest of the night).

 

Since then, I am hopping outside at night and just digging clay or mining without a care in the world. Day 9 now. Feral Sense is at All, and difficulty is default + 2 (forget what it's called).

 

I haven't felt any increased difficulty beyond a cop on day 2 which I just avoided. In fact this is smoothest start to any alpha in terms of the skills I've needed and how frequently I get them.

 

Also worth mentioning, my day 9 (concrete box) base is running 4 Forges all night and is surrounded on its outer walls with 12 Torches (3 per side, as I have always done). And my base is rarely attacked by anything (as usual). I've heard a couple of Screamers but I just ignore them if I can and let them die on my spikes.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Ghostlight (see edit history)

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, Survior said:

During alpha 19 my longest play though was like 150 days and had 7-ish deaths. Now in alpha 20 I've died 7 times in 5 days, I don't even get 7 days to die. I took over a house at the edge of a farming town, I've never built a campfire and I don't have any torches and even if I don't move,  still, my base it attacked every night. It's usually zombies, but once it was 2 brown bears, once it was a single brown bear another time it was a black wolf and yet another time it was five smaller dogs/wolves. Mind you I'm only on day 5.  That house was also ridiculous to clear out as it contained 2 feral zombies on day1.

 

It is not really fun to know that you cannot avoid death (as in the case of the two brown bears that attacked me at 4am on the 3rd day), there wasn't really anything I could do, they take something like 50 stone arrows and 10 hits with a spear (both).

 

Additionally it seems everything was nerfed, farming, stumps, skills (need more, get less).

 

I'm concerned that the Funpimps are now designing their game balance around those people with over a thousand hours in who probably play dark soul games when they are not playing 7d2d otherwise the game is heavily skewed towards 4-8 man groups and single player efforts kind of suck.  I consider being able to build the basic stuff, farm the basic stuff, cook the basic stuff and craft the basic stuff while fighting with basic abilities to be early game, but now you need to a ton of levels.

 

Funpimps by all means make your game brutal on the highest settings to challenge groups of heavily experienced players, but don't forget the the casual players and new players who probably don't find spam deaths to be enjoyable or balanced on normal settings.

 

 

 

Farming perk and stumps were nerfed sure, but which other skills (aka perks) are you refering to?

 

For bear defense you could use the pipe rifle and independant of weapon make sure to get headshots. Sure, it takes a while with a bow. But there are not many games where you can have the satisfaction of killing a mid-game level enemy at day 1 with a primitive bow and some caution.

 

I assume you took over an upper floor, so just add wood blocks shaped like the former wood frames to your walls and you have a nice platform to shoot from while the bear is still outside. Inside the house you can also substitute floor tiles with the wood frame shaped blocks and can kill the bear in all leisure while it rampages a few blocks of the house.

 

I would disagree that you need to get combat related skills asap, except for sexrex. One of the most important starting perks is one point in daring adventurer so you have a better chance at getting a useful item (or ammo) from quests. One point in hunter is great to have an easy food source because you see all the chickens running around.

 

 

 

[ricp]

4 hours ago, Survior said:

.. I've never built a campfire and I don't have any torches and even if I don't move,  still, my base it attacked every night. It's usually zombies, but once it was 2 brown bears, once it was a single brown bear another time it was a black wolf and yet another time it was five smaller dogs/wolves.

 

I think most people would look at that and wonder what difficulty level you are playing at. I'll happily up the difficulty and turn on feral sense but even then that seems somewhat OP for the first few days - a caveat for the RNG gods needs to be place here, of course!

 

I don't know exactly how the animal spawning works in the game, but I wonder if your PoI is located in a spot that for whatever reason is more likely to spawn in wildlife, and dangerous wildlife at that.

 

As for dying, I'll be honest, I'd count myself as "very experienced" (not to be confused with "very good"!) and if I am going to die, it's going to be in the very first days. A lot of that is because I play the first day of a new playthrough, like the last day of my previous playthrough, taking all the same gambles and risks yet with a much weaker, slower and poorly armed character. It's over extending, and I do it... 👏 every.. 👏 damned.. 👏 time! Once I'm passed that hump of the early days, I'll last weeks in game without coming close to death.

 

 

[Krougal]

All I can come up with is OP must be getting unlucky with the wandering horde spawns. Sometimes their timing is awful.

The first few nights I squat in the nearest 2 story house to the trader. I rushed a forge the first night even. Did some cooking too.

You would be very hard-pressed to raise the heat fast enough to get screamers in the first few days so don't even worry about that and other than that, those activities do not attract any additional attention.

 

Head down to basement, throw down a torch, do a little digging. The 2 important things here are to sneak (crouch) as you go about the house and to stop what you are doing if you hear mobs. Ok, maybe 3 important things, I didn't have feral sense turned on but then neither should a noob who is struggling with the game.

 

I did have a wolf at the door first night. I also got a bear on like day 3 which was not fun, but I managed to get up stairs even though I was in pretty bad shape. Now unfortunately at that stage of the game it isn't worth dealing with being infected and having a concussion and a broken leg, even if you have the supplies it isn't worth burning them if you are under level 6, just eat some glass; it will cure everything.

 

Other than that the zeds may come and go. Sometimes they will bang on the wall for a bit and then lose interest if you stop making noise. You still want to try to keep productive at night. Reading all those journal entries is a good use of time if all else fails, there are some good tips there. The first week tends to be hard but you will find yourself going out more and more at night as the game progresses until eventually your only concern about the night will be "why isn't the @%$#ing trader open?"

 

[canadianbluebeer]

I take over a rooftop for the first bit.  (there's a nice pass'n'gas station/store for that)

 

Removable frames to get up (remove the last one, so it's a 2 block jump)

 

Get pipe weapons asap!

 

Bears and wolves DO spawn more now early game.  Sneak headshots can take a wolf out in 1 hit. (direwolves... umf)

Bears I leave alone unless with the pipe mg.

 

I do cook at night, and yes, forge is going.

 

They cannot get to me though.

 

Ground floor?  fuggedaboutit!

 

(I use melee during the day as much as possible early on, to save on ammo)

 

[Survior]

5 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Farming perk and stumps were nerfed sure, but which other skills (aka perks) are you refering to?

 

 

I though advanced engineering got changed but after looking it up on the wiki it seems normal.. will have to check in-game again.

 

As you said bears are mid-game,  (along with black wolves and wolf packs)  I gotta ask what's the gotta do with my naked broken butt on those first days? 😝

I've got a couple of thoughts about my situation that could be causing my grief so I'll ask for feedback since not everyone has been a jerk and told me that after 10,000 hours of 7d2d alpha20 is too easy. 😅

 

1. The PoI had 2 torches on it and has several free lights inside maybe 10 or so, that along with it's strong walls (5k) is why I picked it, but it's possible the have heat (according to the wiki.

 

2. My PoI is just over 200 meters from a snow biome. 

 

3. My PoI is on the corner of a block of 9x9 PoIs (mostly farms).

 

I'm not sure if any of these are causing my undue grief but it's possible.

[Krougal]

45 minutes ago, Survior said:

 

I though advanced engineering got changed but after looking it up on the wiki it seems normal.. will have to check in-game again.

 

As you said bears are mid-game,  (along with black wolves and wolf packs)  I gotta ask what's the gotta do with my naked broken butt on those first days? 😝

I've got a couple of thoughts about my situation that could be causing my grief so I'll ask for feedback since not everyone has been a jerk and told me that after 10,000 hours of 7d2d alpha20 is too easy. 😅

 

1. The PoI had 2 torches on it and has several free lights inside maybe 10 or so, that along with it's strong walls (5k) is why I picked it, but it's possible the have heat (according to the wiki.

 

2. My PoI is just over 200 meters from a snow biome. 

 

3. My PoI is on the corner of a block of 9x9 PoIs (mostly farms).

 

I'm not sure if any of these are causing my undue grief but it's possible.

Nah, like I said above, you are just not putting out THAT much heat THAT fast, also what heat does is make screamers spawn. Nothing more, nothing less.

You'd see some tougher mobs from snow biome if you entered it, but I think 200 meters is too far. Lumberjacks and cougars would be the giveaway here.

Not the nearby POIs either.

 

There are wandering hordes every day, generally twice a day. They are different from the 7 day horde. They spawn in targeted at your current location but they aren't feral, so they might miss you altogether, especially if you've moved significantly by the time they get there. Besides the motley assortment of zeds there are themed hordes, such as hazmat, soldiers, girl zombies, etc. Also everyone's favorites: dogs and dogs & bears.

 

I'm not gonna lie, the early game is frequently harsh with the dogs and wolves and bears even for an experienced player if you get caught flat-footed and unprepared you are gonna have a bad time. Even mid game I still dread dog packs at night especially and bears at any time and I know how to deal with them. Wolves on the other hand are my favorite source of meat.

 

Midgame you will get angry at that horde not noticing you and walking away with your precious xp and start firing off your shotgun but early game they can be a source of trouble.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Krougal (see edit history)

[meganoth]

50 minutes ago, Survior said:

 

I though advanced engineering got changed but after looking it up on the wiki it seems normal.. will have to check in-game again.

 

As you said bears are mid-game,  (along with black wolves and wolf packs)  I gotta ask what's the gotta do with my naked broken butt on those first days? 😝

 

They are mid-game enemies, but early game boogiemen. A survival game can put the decision before you at any time whether to run or hide and when to fight. 7D2D had that for as long as I have been playing it. Walk through a forest and on day 3 a dog horde could surprise you in A15.

 

50 minutes ago, Survior said:

I've got a couple of thoughts about my situation that could be causing my grief so I'll ask for feedback since not everyone has been a jerk and told me that after 10,000 hours of 7d2d alpha20 is too easy. 😅

 

1. The PoI had 2 torches on it and has several free lights inside maybe 10 or so, that along with it's strong walls (5k) is why I picked it, but it's possible the have heat (according to the wiki.

 

Like Krougal said, heat is only for summoning screamers. I took over a poi, setup a fireplace, forge and workbench, but probably  less light than you and have (after 50 days) not seen a single screamer.

 

But wandering hordes (and because of feral sense) random visitors in the night are relatively common.

 

50 minutes ago, Survior said:

 

2. My PoI is just over 200 meters from a snow biome. 

 

That probably explains why you got two bears

 

50 minutes ago, Survior said:

 

3. My PoI is on the corner of a block of 9x9 PoIs (mostly farms).

 

I'm not sure if any of these are causing my undue grief but it's possible.

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Pernicious]

First few play throughs, I did get the feeling that it got a lot harder. It took me a while to figure out what it was.

 

1) It does seem like significantly more zombies spawn in general.

 

2) It does seem like wandering hordes are slightly more common.

 

3) Wild animals appear to be way more common, and I don't think I saw wolf packs in A19

 

Then there seem to be rebalancing of weapons:

 

A) Primitive bows seem to be less accurate

 

B) Although you get pipe weapons much earlier, the old tier 1 weapons seem to come a little slower.

 

I've had to adjust tactics to survive.

 

i) Stealth seems to be mandatory early game now, even without putting points into it. You won't always succeed, but stealth killing 50%, and getting hurt only 50% of the time is still better than 100% melee. This means POI and outside.

 

ii) Especially near anything I intend to spend any significant time in - home, mines, POIs, you can't afford to walk past single zombies any more. Too many times in my first few play throughs, I'd run or bike past a few zombies and think "Okay, they didn't see me, I'm good", only to find 5 minutes into the POI, there's 3 or 4 zombies all trying to get into the POI, which are not part of the clear.

 

iii) Melee is mandatory for longer early game now, as pipe weapons don't reload fast enough to be meaningful except 1 vs 1, and then it's just a waste of ammo.. They're your last ditch effort to survive.

 

iv) Instead of food just for hunger, food has to serve a medical purpose now. Instead of eating 5-10 steaks in one sitting, I now have to eat a steak to get a couple hit points back, and top up my hunger.

 

v) It did use to seem like "Animal = food!" even very early on, especially if you were willing to cheese it. You know, drop nerd pole, upgrade to 2nd level wood, then stealth arrow head shot (3.5x damage for stealth + 2x damage for headshot) and a few body shots netted you wolf meat. Maybe a 4x4 nerd pole if you had a bear. That's no longer viable. They seem to be able to take wood down, and a wolf pack can even take down cobblestone, so I've really had to decide whether I desperately need the meat or not, and then it's empty all pipe weapons before going back to bow.

 

Every time game mechanics change, you need to relearn your play style and tactics. I guess you could call that harder, or you could say that it's just the start of a new learning curve. I did a few play throughs to test new mechanics because I am a bit over-competitive with my friends, but it has meant that in my latest playthrough, I made it to day 21 before my first death - and that was just bad luck. Once you re-learn the mechanics and tactics, I think it'll go back to A19 difficulty for you.

[Whorhay]

If you found Feral zombies in the POI you were clearing on day 1, and before nightfall, then you were for sure not clearing out a Tier One PoI, possibly not even T2 to T3. Like others have said it sounds like you've been horrendously unlucky with wandering hordes, both in the type of them and the timing.

[G2manT]

@Survior When choosing your first POI it's best to choose one that's higher and preferably not wood.  Use the roof of the building and break all the stairs so they can't get to you. I put up ladders all the way to the top of the building on the outside of the building and skipping the first two blocks so the zeds would have to jump 3 blocks high to reach the ladder. 

Usually I try to dig underground every night and I always dig while in a squatted position to make less noise. You can monitor your noise level while in the squat position so if you hear a zed just stop for a little while until they pass by (Or go an kill it)

[Survior]

4 hours ago, Whorhay said:

If you found Feral zombies in the POI you were clearing on day 1, and before nightfall, then you were for sure not clearing out a Tier One PoI, possibly not even T2 to T3. Like others have said it sounds like you've been horrendously unlucky with wandering hordes, both in the type of them and the timing.

I just cleared out a normal house, because it was kind of big, I think at most it could have been T2.

[Tmodloader]

You definitely can avoid death, took a few runs for me to be able to, to be fair. It's a combination of luck and knowing the new updated gear (pipe weapons) and trying different builds. I have had way more success starting with strength than anything else so far. 

 

I also have only seen 1 wandering horde in 2 weeks strangely enough. 

10 hours ago, Pernicious said:

 

 

iii) Melee is mandatory for longer early game now, as pipe weapons don't reload fast enough to be meaningful except 1 vs 1, and then it's just a waste of ammo..

 

Pipe machine gun is definitely the exception here, it saved me in my first tier 4 (yes I started tier 4 in week one or very early week 2). I got to the treasure room and all of a sudden a flood of zombies came at me, I was jumping around the room, used a medkit, popped all the buffs I had and took out that pipe machine gun which did some good work at helping me take them out as fast as I could, survived with like 20hp. Easily would have died without that pipe machine gun. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Tmodloader (see edit history)

[Survior]

What a LOT of you are saying is that WEAPONS_SKILLS_N_STATs  is the only way to play now, and that sounds super lame.

[RipClaw]

20 minutes ago, Survior said:

What a LOT of you are saying is that WEAPONS_SKILLS_N_STATs  is the only way to play now, and that sounds super lame.

It's not the only way, but it's the one that I've found works best for single player, and I don't see how it's any different from A19.

 

As far as character development goes, it's an RPG. You start weak and get stronger through skills and better gear.

Before A17 we had learning be doing. The more you used something the better you got at it. But that has been replaced by the current skill tree.

 

The two key things that I think have changed in terms of progress compared to A19 is that you can't find working workstations anymore and that the lootstage is separated from the gamestage.

 

How did you play in A19?