Farming not very viable even with living off the land 3.

[WayneFrancis]

As is, it is stupid to make and plant seeds as it cost more plants than it will produce.

Farming is a net loss at least until you get living off the land 3 and can be even then.

Takes 5 plants to get 1 seed.
 

Say you have 10 planted crops (cost 50 plants)
You harvest and get 40 plants (enough for 8 seeds)
You get back 5 seeds to replant if you get the 50%
You have to use 25 of the 40 crop to replant, more if you were unlucky.

So for 10 plants you end up getting 15 usable plants.  1.5 plants per planted crop.

Say you have living off the land 3

Say you have 10 planted crops (cost 50 plants)
You harvest and get 60 plants (enough for up to 6 seeds)

You get back 5 seeds.  So to replant you only have to use 25 of the plants.

So for 10 plants you get 3.5 plants per harvest

 

Note first 15 plants I harvested I got only 4 seeds back.  So I'm not even confident about the 50% seed drop is working.

 

Harvesting planted crops should either 
A) Always return a seed

or 

B) Just revert back to the seed version of the planted crop.

 

[hiemfire]

Base harvest without perks should be 2 ears/tubers/gourds/flowers/caps/fruit. Was changed for A20.

LotL crop returns were also adjusted.

LotL 1 ups it to 4. So Double.

LotL 3 ups it to 6. So Triple.

[WayneFrancis]

3 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

Base harvest without perks should be 2 ears/tubers/gourds/flowers/caps/fruit. Was changed for A20.

LotL crop returns were also adjusted.

LotL 1 ups it to 4. So Double.

LotL 3 ups it to 6. So Triple.

Ooops got my math wrong ... I'll fix but doesn't help much.

 

[myrkana]

Plants dont replant automatically anymore?

[hiemfire]

2 minutes ago, myrkana said:

Plants dont replant automatically anymore?

Nope. They changed it because farming was too much of a fire and forget food source.

[Lenny Lettuce Lips]

They've heavily increased your seed loot rate, I've noticed. I would go literal weeks in game without finding a seed that wasn't a flower or corn and I've already found pumpkin and potato seeds in day one. Day two I was up another potato and mushroom. Loot your seeds!

 

You're gaming the numbers harder than needed: you get three back per harvest at max LotL. So you might need 5 to a seed, but with two plots you get enough per seed plus one for recipes. It wouldn't take long to make a farm if you focused on strictly seeds to get a plenty sufficient farm if you also loot and plant. I wouldn't complain about a mild nerf, say to 3 or 4, but as is, I've never worried if I spec into farming. 

 

The new food system makes it a bit more critical to get food, so I'll report back with some results after more mileage. 

[hiemfire]

1 minute ago, Lenny Lettuce Lips said:

You're gaming the numbers harder than needed: you get three back per harvest at max LotL. So you might need 5 to a seed, but with two plots you get enough per seed plus one for recipes. It wouldn't take long to make a farm if you focused on strictly seeds to get a plenty sufficient farm if you also loot and plant. I wouldn't complain about a mild nerf, say to 3 or 4, but as is, I've never worried if I spec into farming. 

Harvesting player planted crops in A20 now breaks them completely with no return to seedling stage and each harvest has a 50% chance not to return a seed for each plant. Also:

Quote

Base harvest without perks should be 2 ears/tubers/gourds/flowers/caps/fruit. Was changed for A20.

LotL crop returns were also adjusted.

LotL 1 ups it to 4. So Double.

LotL 3 ups it to 6. So Triple.

2 farm plots ain't going to cut it unless you're at LotL 3 even with the increased seed drops. No matter how much clay you use to mash them together you can't combine a few taters with a couple shrooms to get a tater or shroom "seed".

[Lenny Lettuce Lips]

Just now, hiemfire said:

Harvesting player planted crops in A20 now breaks them completely with no return to seedling stage and each harvest has a 50% chance not to return a seed for each plant.

REALLY?!? That's a better point. 

[Vaeliorin]

Yeah, I just harvested my farm for the first time (have LotL 2) and I actually had negative gain of crops.  I was lucky I'd found some mushrooms and a pumpkin, or I wouldn't have been able to replant those.  Basically, there's no point in farming unless you get LotL 3, seems like.  Which, admittedly, I normally do, but now I'm going to have to wait until I get at least 3 more points before I dare harvest my crops again.

 

Meat is plenty available, but I don't want to be wholly dependent on eggs to make a decent meal.

 

ETA:  This will also make farming super tedious.  My last world before A20 I had 400 farm plots planted (I had a 4X4 grid of 5X5 farm plots...yes I play single player, but I like having a big farm.)  Harvesting, crafting necessary replacement seeds, and replanting is going to be a major pain.

[bilibili-wayne]

7 hours ago, hiemfire said:

不。他们改变了它，因为农业太火了，忘记了食物来源。

On agriculture, in fact, I wonder why don't you make a balance of nutrition requirements?
Hunger degrees only guarantee period of time they will not die, but the nutrient unbalance, can cause more DEBUFF, these debuffs states only need continuous 3 to 7 days of a balanced food can fade.
So the potatoes, pumpkin, mushroom, corn is a plant nutrition; Meat and eggs is eggs nutrition meat.
This farm is not strong, the dependence of players will stick to go out because of no meat or eggs.
=====

关于农业，其实我在想为什么不做成一种营养摄入的平衡需求？
饥饿度只能保证玩家段时间内不会死亡，但营养失衡的话，则会造成更多的DEBUFF，这些减益状态只需要连续吃3-7天的营养均衡的食物就可以消退。
所以目前土豆，南瓜，蘑菇，玉米是植物类营养；肉和鸡蛋是肉蛋类营养。
这样农场的依赖性就不强了，玩家会因为没有肉或者蛋而坚持外出的。

[Stroichik]

U still needed eggs, animal fat and meat for good food supply. And i do remember Devs posting something like "sell excess of food from farming to traders to get brass for bullets" or something like that. Now they nerf farming into tedious replanting routine, but give u machineguns made from pipe and glue on day 1. Wtf? They had replanting before, but u didnt need a farming plot to plant stuff, and u could add fertilizer to get more crops, it was tedious but at least u could mssively increase yield by using fertilizer. Now u need to get workbench to even start farming, and then u need LotL level 3 to make it useful.

 

Crafting a plant seed from 5 units of harvest? Have u seen corn? U should be able to plant 50 corn plants from a single corn cob. Why do we need to use up 5 out of 6 harvested plants just to make 1 seed? Farming is useles and tediuos chore now. wasting 3 skill point on LotL is no point anymore. Just go hunting and make ton of grilled meat, since its the only reliable food source now.

[Orclover]

Well this has been informative and disturbing.  The main complaint from our group of players last night has been the constant hunger and thirst pains, we are all eating like sumo wrestlers getting ready for a match just to keep negative modifiers at bay.  We secured a location and were ready to transport dirt last night just so we could set up a farm to take care of ALL 6 OF US since we had a good start of seeds.  Now I get to tell them that idea is doa and that farming is broken.  There is no way a farm will sustain 6 of us no matter how big we make it, at least not for another month.

 

I tell ya this is not going to go over well, anybody know the file edit to change seed return until they "fix" this?

 

In the meantime its back to bear hunting.

[IgnyteZero]

11 hours ago, hiemfire said:

Base harvest without perks should be 2 ears/tubers/gourds/flowers/caps/fruit. Was changed for A20.

LotL crop returns were also adjusted.

LotL 1 ups it to 4. So Double.

LotL 3 ups it to 6. So Triple.

Considering that you don't get seeds back 50% of the time (theoretically at least, in game I seem to get seeds back only 30% of the time), farming is completely pointless unless you have maxed it. Even with raised seed drop rate, that rate is still way too low.

While farming was WAY too easy before, it's a bit too punishing at the moment. There is really no point in bothering with farming at all unless you have maxed out LotL at 3, as 1 and 2 is a game of guaranteed loss. And at 3 you are barely scraping by unless you can get past critical mass, ie having at least 10 working farm plots for each seed type active at all times.

I would consider a solution like letting LotL 2 raise seed drop chance to 75% and LotL to 100% OR let LotL give triple harvest and LotL raise seed drop chance to 90%. Either that or rethink farming completely once again.

 

[canadianbluebeer]

Haven't gotten to farming yet, but I always waited until I had LotL 3 anyway.

 

Tedious is the way Valheim does it.  Takes a long time to get the crops up to good yields, and even then..

 

start:

Plant 300 barley seeds.

Harvest 600 barley. 

Plant 150 to get 300 seeds, net 450 to turn into flour for food.

goto start

 

Now, you start with very very few seeds to begin with, so it's a lot of plant for seeds, plant all seeds repeat until decent numbers.

(and ONIONS  gaahh!  That one was worse than turnips!)  😛

 

I will grant the old way was plant and forget.

Have to turn SOME of the harvest into seeds, but it's a balancing act.

 

[Stroichik]

Turn 5 to 1 ratio of seed crafting into 1 to 5 and it will be all good.

[ElCabong]

you're going to have to make a farm big enough to cover your seed loss. I'm not sure yet how big this is with living off the land 2. All I put into it.

[BFT2020]

If your only source of seeds is from crops you planted, then yes you won't be able to sustain the farm.  However, looting has increased the number of seeds.  There might be changes to percentages after a lot more testing, but the reaction today is solely based on a single aspect of farming and not accounting for the other changes made in the game.

[Orclover]

2 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

If your only source of seeds is from crops you planted, then yes you won't be able to sustain the farm.  However, looting has increased the number of seeds.  There might be changes to percentages after a lot more testing, but the reaction today is solely based on a single aspect of farming and not accounting for the other changes made in the game.

 

Well now the problem is we will be forced to turn loot respawn back on or we will run out of seeds very fast if there are any other players.  Sure you can hop from town to town but even that is not sustainable in the long run, eventually in the reasonable area you have stripped the local cities and towns for seeds just to sustain crops.  Forget realism, its just absurdism.  You are no longer even looting for other things, the game becomes a seed hunt simulator.  Pretty sure thats not the direction they wanted to go.  I know the previous version made food too easy to get with crops staying the ground during harvest (we called at a key moment during play, when we stopped worrying about food and focused on other things like horde base building) but they may have pushed a bit too far in the other direction without pausing in the middle.  A single vegetable SHOULD return multiple seeds, how many is debatable.  

 

If this isnt going to be patched then does anybody know which config file to edit to change the seed return values?  That at least is the easy fix.

[Stroichik]

Since Devs scrapped Wellness system in favor of loosing a bit of XP, we can all just suicide every night and forget about having to look for food. Looks like game slowly turns into arcade shooter with firearms on day 1 and 80 rounds per 1 ammo crate on day 1. Just run around, shoot everywhere, get hurt/disease/hunger - just die and get better.

[Fox]

It's called forced difficulty. The devs think growing food is too easy now so they're making it even more of a pain in the butt to get, as if we didn't already have enough problems to worry about in-game.

[Stroichik]

3 minutes ago, Fox said:

It's called forced difficulty. The devs think growing food is too easy now so they're making it even more of a pain in the butt to get, as if we didn't already have enough problems to worry about in-game.

If they wanted more difficulty, why they scrapped Wellness system and added pipe weapons for day 1? They had farming system with replanting after harvest before. They scrapped it in favor of farming plots with regrowing crops. Now they scrap regrowing crops, but don't give back fertilizer to increase harvest yield. Its illogical.

Without Wellness system, we dont really need food, we can just die without any penalty. So why bother replanting god knows how many farm plots for tiny food output?

 

Devs made farming like it was in A19 so that players could sell crops to Traders to get brass for making ammo, they stated it in their own videos when they scrapped fertilizers in favor of farming plots and added traders. As a source for getting brass and income to buy stuff from traders.

[Orclover]

2 minutes ago, Stroichik said:

If they wanted more difficulty, why they scrapped Wellness system and added pipe weapons for day 1? They had farming system with replanting after harvest before. They scrapped it in favor of farming plots with regrowing crops. Now they scrap regrowing crops, but don't give back fertilizer to increase harvest yield. Its illogical.

Without Wellness system, we dont really need food, we can just die without any penalty. So why bother replanting god knows how many farm plots for tiny food output?

 

Devs made farming like it was in A19 so that players could sell crops to Traders to get brass for making ammo, they stated it in their own videos when they scrapped fertilizers in favor of farming plots and added traders. As a source for getting brass and income to buy stuff from traders.

 

 

I actually really liked the wellness system, it gave a nice bite for messing up in the game and if you played well you were rewarded with a ton of HP/Stamina.

 

 

[Stroichik]

Wellness system fitted 7d2d perfectly. U needed lots of good food and not dying to get high Stamina for melee fighting to preserve ammo, or mining. 

Without Wellness, u can just go jump from radio tower everytime u got disease from vulture, or run out of food due to broken farming in A20.

[Orclover]

From steam user That Blind Person: 

 

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\7 Days To Die\Data\Config

Use Notepad or Notepad++ to open Blocks.xml

Hit F3 and paste "3harvestplayer" search twice and you'll see

<!-- NOT_A_SHAPE -->
<block name="plantedMushroom3HarvestPlayer">

scroll down and change the prob="0.5" to prob="1", in the following line;

<drop event="Destroy" name="plantedMushroom1" count="1" prob="0.5"/>

search twice again for the next player harvest block for the crop you want and change those prob="0.5" to prob="1" for whatever plants you want.

Personally I find 0.75 to be a pretty good sweet spot especially if you don't go for living off the land tier 3 right away. (I always do because I like me some farmin'.


Always remember to create backups of your xml's before modding them.

 

 

 

We will probably try this before everybody logs in tonight.   Otherwise 1 person running a farm will never be able to keep up with 6 other players unless we make a farm the size of a small city.  Anything is better than the current system even with skill points invested, talk about a grind.

 

 

[meganoth]

There is no bug in the farming.

 

Even with Living of the Land 1 you get a self-sufficient farm going with on average 1.5 plants per seed (down from 2 plants per seed in A19, if I remember correctly). With LotL3 you are even getting more food on average than in A19 !! The only difference is that it is a bit random and you get sometimes more and sometimes less from a single season.

 

And with 6 people in A19 you had to use hunting massively in the first few weeks before a sufficient farm got up. This did not change.

 

About the work load: Yes, that could be a problem if 1 person needs to supply all 6. A possible solution is that replanting is done round-robin  by everyone, only harvest is done by the farmer