Optimization

[TheNoob]

Optimization in 7DTD is average, it's bad and some good. But not ideal.
 

In blood moon i have 30-40 fps. But before blood moon start i have 59-60 fps (on minimal settings, monitor is 1600x900), and it's uncomfortable when your fps drops sharply to 30-40. Can devs make unusual optimization for blood moon? I have an 1 idea: blocks outside the fog will not be rendered, which will not load the video card. Or, they will be rendered, but in very poor quality.
 

My pc: AMD Phenom II X6 1035T Processor (6 yards), 8.0 GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce 750Ti.
 

So, in 20A there will be a multi threaded render (I forgot what it's already called, but it distributes work across processor cores).

Almost forgot, In what alpha the WHOLE code will be redone and finished? Just because of Unity update 7DTD code is old and it's need to be redone.
 

P.s: I need any commands for optimization (F1 menu), but not those that make the graphics worse, but something passive or something that will not be visible to the eye

[Boidster]

AMD Phenom II X6 1035T - May 2010

GeForce 750Ti - February 2014

 

I'd say you're actually doing pretty well running on very old hardware with bare-minimum specs for the game. I'll root for them to optimize something here or there that helps you, but I wouldn't put all my eggs in the optimization basket if I were you. Save some eggs for upgrading (not easy nowadays, I know).

[Maharin]

The requirements for this game are likely to increase before release considering what they will be adding (bandits, for example).  They continue to optimize but it will always be a game that requires a lot of CPU and GPU performance.  As was said, upgrading is going to be your best bet, now or later is up to you.

[TheNoob]

7 hours ago, Maharin said:

The requirements for this game are likely to increase before release considering what they will be adding (bandits, for example).  They continue to optimize but it will always be a game that requires a lot of CPU and GPU performance.  As was said, upgrading is going to be your best bet, now or later is up to you.

yes, i need to upgrade my PC. But im saving up for new pc. And my budged is 70.000-100.000 rubles for a new pc.

8 hours ago, Boidster said:

AMD Phenom II X6 1035T - May 2010

GeForce 750Ti - February 2014

 

I'd say you're actually doing pretty well running on very old hardware with bare-minimum specs for the game. I'll root for them to optimize something here or there that helps you, but I wouldn't put all my eggs in the optimization basket if I were you. Save some eggs for upgrading (not easy nowadays, I know).

yes, but. Graphics quality... We will see in 20A and 21A. a matter of time and work of coders

[meganoth]

The game has been optimized by Fataal the last few alphas. But a voxel game with changeable terrain is always a heavy load and many optimizations that can be done in normal static games can not be done in a game with a dynamic landscape.

 

For horde night I would guess there is still the hope that they find a way to make instantiation of zombies less FPS-heavy, but if they actually find a way they could instead turn up zombie numbers, because that is critizised a lot by players.

 

A19 already uses up to 6 cores, as far as I know there is nothing new in A20, sorry. There won't be large gains in FPS, just more of the spikes to lower FPS will vanish as that is what Fataal as been optimizing lately. The whole code won't be redone either, changing to a newer version of Unity changes only some glue code. Faatal said multiple times that they won't change to a newer render engine Unity provides because it would take too much time and effort.

 

Here some of that info in Faatals own words:

 

https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/22366-alpha-20-dev-diary/page/99/?tab=comments#comment-444979

https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/22366-alpha-20-dev-diary/page/93/?tab=comments#comment-443926

https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/22366-alpha-20-dev-diary/page/92/?tab=comments#comment-443925

 

Any which way, I don't think the FPS will change much from now until release. So good luck with your money saving effort. If you don't buy your graphics card before 2022 your budget will be enough to provide quite a different play experience. Just remember that 7D2D is CPU bound so get a good CPU (at least ryzen 5600x) because your CPU will determine what FPS you get for this game, not the GPU.

 

You might even buy anything except the GPU first for some FPS boost as the prices for CPU, motherboard, RAM... are ok and buy the GPU later when the price has dropped.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Roland]

17 hours ago, TheNoob said:

In what alpha the WHOLE code will be redone and finished?

Alpha Never.  A lot of the code is considered done and finished already. They will continue to optimize but spend an entire Alpha cycle going through all the code to redo it in its entirety? Nope.

 

17 hours ago, TheNoob said:

Just because of Unity update 7DTD code is old and it's need to be redone.

They may update Unity once more but doing so isn't always a guaranteed positive. TFP have modded Unity for their needs so the benefits to work ratio is something they always look at before updating Unity and it doesn't always pan out because it isn't a simple update. It is an update and then a lot of time fixing their mods to work with the new version of Unity. There are also aspects of Unity that they don't use and sometimes Unity updates those features and in those cases it makes no sense to update.

 

As an example that you might relate with.... What if the only thing A20 added was Twitch Integration? Would you erase your map and saved game and start all over for A20 if you never stream the game on twitch? TFP look at Unity updates the same way. Is it worth having the latest and greatest update if it involves a lot of work with no real benefit to 7 Days to Die? 

[BFT2020]

Almost makes me think TheNoob is management.

 

"So, can you go ahead and redo the entire code to the latest and greatest Unity updates?  Shouldn't take that much time really, seems pretty easy to me"

 

Walks away before Fataal's head explodes

 

😁

[Sarakatunga]

On 10/11/2021 at 9:08 PM, TheNoob said:

Optimization in 7DTD is average, it's bad and some good. But not ideal.
 

In blood moon i have 30-40 fps. But before blood moon start i have 59-60 fps (on minimal settings, monitor is 1600x900), and it's uncomfortable when your fps drops sharply to 30-40. Can devs make unusual optimization for blood moon? I have an 1 idea: blocks outside the fog will not be rendered, which will not load the video card. Or, they will be rendered, but in very poor quality.
 

My pc: AMD Phenom II X6 1035T Processor (6 yards), 8.0 GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce 750Ti.
 

So, in 20A there will be a multi threaded render (I forgot what it's already called, but it distributes work across processor cores).

Almost forgot, In what alpha the WHOLE code will be redone and finished? Just because of Unity update 7DTD code is old and it's need to be redone.
 

P.s: I need any commands for optimization (F1 menu), but not those that make the graphics worse, but something passive or something that will not be visible to the eye

haha that about the fog I think I had said it in the forum, I remember that in the operation flashpoint an old game had a mission editor. when creating a heavy mission I would set the fog 100 meters just to gain fps performance and compensate for it. In 7 days it is seen that everything is still seen to the horizon of the map and the fog is an ornament does not help anything, it would be good if you can choose the fog distance and help in fps as you say.
Also from what I see the players' models drop a lot the fps when they are all together and disappear from 100 meters as if the work of the "LOD" would be done all in half and with most of the trees. Oak pines that did not retexturing on the alpha 19 consume too much fps. Pines like "treeFirLrg01", "treeMountainPine31m" I can put thousands that do not lower the fps! If they would render all the trees it would help a lot in terms of fps! and for me it would be a dream to build a biome with a dark forest full of oaks! haha.

 

Examples:

[Roland]

41 minutes ago, Sarakatunga said:

In 7 days it is seen that everything is still seen to the horizon of the map and the fog is an ornament does not help anything, it would be good if you can choose the fog distance and help in fps as you say.

 

I believe you can. In the options menu you can set the view distance to low which means it will only render a minimum number of chunks around you. High is probably 10 chunks since that is what we used to be able to select as the highest view distance. Beyond those chunks everything else is simply distant terrain and not actually rendered. DIstant terrain can also be turned off, btw.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Roland (see edit history)

[warmer]

hey I got a secret for you...

If you aren't looking at the source code, anything you say about optimization is conjecture and you are guessing...

I would say something about how your newest piece of Hardware being 7 years old, but you don't seem to agree that is an issue. I had a massive improvement in my FPS when I upgraded my CPU. It was bottlenecking my video card, and so is yours because the CPU can't actually provide the GPU data as fast as it can process it.

https://pc-builds.com/calculator/Phenom_II_X6_1035T/GeForce_GTX_750_Ti/06g0Jp8A/8/100/

You CPU is 4 years older than your video card. Your ram is probably DDR3 which is WICKED slow compared to current ram. EVERYTHING is stacked against you. What you are asking for is literally next to impossible with modern graphics and physics and complex multi entity AI.

It ain't happening dude.

Edited October 14, 2021 by warmer (see edit history)

[Sarakatunga]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

 

I believe you can. In the options menu you can set the view distance to low which means it will only render a minimum number of chunks around you. High is probably 10 chunks since that is what we used to be able to select as the highest view distance. Beyond those chunks everything else is simply distant terrain and not actually rendered. DIstant terrain can also be turned off, btw.

If I used the "gfx dt" command but when it is a dedicated server, it gets complicated. My idea is that players can use all the "gfx" commands, and block only the "gfx pp enable 0" command which is responsible for removing the fog. But it can not be done. in serveradmin.xml I tried it like this <permission cmd = "gfx pp enable 0" permission_level = "0" />. it only lets "gfx" block in general and players can no longer use any command.

[TheNoob]

6 hours ago, Sarakatunga said:

haha that about the fog I think I had said it in the forum, I remember that in the operation flashpoint an old game had a mission editor. when creating a heavy mission I would set the fog 100 meters just to gain fps performance and compensate for it. In 7 days it is seen that everything is still seen to the horizon of the map and the fog is an ornament does not help anything, it would be good if you can choose the fog distance and help in fps as you say.
Also from what I see the players' models drop a lot the fps when they are all together and disappear from 100 meters as if the work of the "LOD" would be done all in half and with most of the trees. Oak pines that did not retexturing on the alpha 19 consume too much fps. Pines like "treeFirLrg01", "treeMountainPine31m" I can put thousands that do not lower the fps! If they would render all the trees it would help a lot in terms of fps! and for me it would be a dream to build a biome with a dark forest full of oaks! haha.

 

Examples:

What hud you using it's looks handy for noob like me :OOO. Send link in dm (if in this site have DM)

[SylenThunder]

1 hour ago, TheNoob said:

What hud you using it's looks handy for noob like me :OOO. Send link in dm (if in this site have DM)

That looks like Riles HUD+. Recommended to use the latest beta version because the one previous has some compatibility issues with the current version of the game client.

[7daystodierocks]

On 10/11/2021 at 7:15 PM, Boidster said:

AMD Phenom II X6 1035T - May 2010

GeForce 750Ti - February 2014

 

I'd say you're actually doing pretty well running on very old hardware with bare-minimum specs for the game. I'll root for them to optimize something here or there that helps you, but I wouldn't put all my eggs in the optimization basket if I were you. Save some eggs for upgrading (not easy nowadays, I know).

i win

Operating System
    Windows 10 Home 64-bit
CPU
    Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 @ 3.00GHz    49 °C
    Wolfdale 45nm Technology
RAM
    4.00GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 531MHz (7-7-7-20)
Motherboard
    Hewlett-Packard 3048h (XU1 PROCESSOR)
Graphics
    DELL 1704FPV (1280x1024@60Hz)
    DELL 1704FPV (1280x1024@60Hz)
    2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 610 (ZOTAC International)    62 °C
Storage
    465GB Seagate ST3500413AS (SATA)    38 °C
    465GB Seagate ST3500630NS (SATA)    44 °C
Optical Drives
    HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GH22NS50

[TheNoob]

1 hour ago, 7daystodierocks said:

i win

Operating System
    Windows 10 Home 64-bit
CPU
    Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 @ 3.00GHz    49 °C
    Wolfdale 45nm Technology
RAM
    4.00GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 531MHz (7-7-7-20)
Motherboard
    Hewlett-Packard 3048h (XU1 PROCESSOR)
Graphics
    DELL 1704FPV (1280x1024@60Hz)
    DELL 1704FPV (1280x1024@60Hz)
    2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 610 (ZOTAC International)    62 °C
Storage
    465GB Seagate ST3500413AS (SATA)    38 °C
    465GB Seagate ST3500630NS (SATA)    44 °C
Optical Drives
    HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GH22NS50

wdym

[Roland]

23 minutes ago, TheNoob said:

wdym

 

He is saying that his setup is even worse than yours. It's a sarcastic win.

[TheNoob]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

 

He is saying that his setup is even worse than yours. It's a sarcastic win.

Big F for him tbh

[Roland]

44 minutes ago, TheNoob said:

Big F for him tbh

Well….yeah..

 

His rig is even worse than yours. He’s completely F’ed rather than just moderately F’ed.

[7daystodierocks]

4 hours ago, Roland said:

Well….yeah..

 

His rig is even worse than yours. He’s completely F’ed rather than just moderately F’ed.

well my completely f'ed is still kicking the games ass XD and i honestly dont even know how lol

[SylenThunder]

The specs for my minimum hardware test rig.

 

Motherboard: Intel DG33BU
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 @ 2.4GHz
RAM: 8GB Dual-Channel DDR2 @ 800MHz
GPU: MSI GeForce GTX 770 2GB Twin Frozr Gaming OC
Storage: 1TB WD Black

 

I was using a GTX 660Ti 2GB by MSI, but fried it using the cable for a different PSU. Apparently it fit, but the pinouts were different.

It's currently capable of a relatively stable 60FPS. FPS does drop in about half for the dusk/dawn shadow issue, and fluctuates a bit during bloodmoon.

Before a19 went stable I ran a series of tests on it comparing the differences between a bloated system, and one that is properly clean and optimized. The details are here.

[Maharin]

Just wait until they do the 1mm voxel version with ray tracing.

[warmer]

moderately F'ed...

 

completely F'ed...

[Magnus33john]

The game is very poorly optimized due tot the fact there is 13 years of coding  to deal with and no plans to do real optimizations tell its beta.

 

Toss in the fact it's a voxel based game and it gets bad on even the best hardware.

 

Better hardware can make this less painful but not a great experience.

 

It's a alpha game so this is hardly unexpected though and we shouldn't be too surprised.

 

Single player is not great but playable but the multiplayer is a train wreck at this point.

 

When it does come time to optimize i wouldn't want to be the Dev's as waiting so long to do so is going to leave them with a nightmare mess to deal with and possible one they can't fully fix.

 

 

 

[Riamus]

26 minutes ago, Magnus33john said:

The game is very poorly optimized due tot the fact there is 13 years of coding  to deal with and no plans to do real optimizations tell its beta.

 

Toss in the fact it's a voxel based game and it gets bad on even the best hardware.

 

Better hardware can make this less painful but not a great experience.

 

It's a alpha game so this is hardly unexpected though and we shouldn't be too surprised.

 

Single player is not great but playable but the multiplayer is a train wreck at this point.

 

When it does come time to optimize i wouldn't want to be the Dev's as waiting so long to do so is going to leave them with a nightmare mess to deal with and possible one they can't fully fix.

Pretty much all game developers wait to do serious optimization until it is almost complete.  Doing otherwise means a lot of wasted time redoing optimizations every time you add our change something.  This is no different and won't really be any more challenging than it is for any other game.  Yes, voxels may add some more difficulty but you are otherwise in the same boat as any developer in any game.

 

That said, I can play the game at 60fps even during blood moon and on almost ultra settings (motion blur are disabled because I hate that and a few others are reduced simply because I really don't care about them and see no reason to have them high). I also run the graphics at 1080p and not 4k.  And I have an older computer... AMD Ryzen 5 2400 with Radeon RX 580 GPU.  After updating to 32GB RAM and installing a Samsung 870 EVO SSD, I get the really good fps.  The times it drops are only when certain textures that have a lot of detail or shadows are focused on.  This is true even in MP, though I don't use a server.  It is even true when I host others.

 

Now, I'm not saying the game is optimized well.  However, considering they haven't really gotten into optimization too much yet, it is pretty good.  Of course, everyone will have different experiences, especially with servers, and this is just what I have seen.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Gamida]

33 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Pretty much all game developers wait to do serious optimization until it is almost complete.  Doing otherwise means a lot of wasted time redoing optimizations every time you add our change something.  This is no different and won't really be any more challenging than it is for any other game.  Yes, voxels may add some more difficulty but you are otherwise in the same boat as any developer in any game.

 

That said, I can play the game at 60fps even during blood moon and on almost ultra settings (motion blur are disabled because I hate that and a few others are reduced simply because I really don't care about them and see no reason to have them high). I also run the graphics at 1080p and not 4k.  And I have an older computer... AMD Ryzen 5 2400 with Radeon RX 580 GPU.  After updating to 32GB RAM and installing a Samsung 870 EVO SSD, I get the really good fps.  The times it drops are only when certain textures that have a lot of detail or shadows are focused on.  This is true even in MP, though I don't use a server.  It is even true when I host others.

 

Now, I'm not saying the game is optimized well.  However, considering they haven't really gotten into optimization too much yet, it is pretty good.  Of course, everyone will have different experiences, especially with servers, and this is just what I have seen.

 

That gives me some hope. I am thinking of updating to 32GB ram and an an ssd. I can play the game pretty well with what I am using now but thought doing that might help. With my settings most times I get around 60fps.

This gives me another slight nudge toward pulling the trigger on ram and ssd.