Catering to New Players hurts Replayability for Experienced Players

[ZombieSurvivor]

I don’t think that’s accurate at all. This game has stayed above 25k peak consecutive players for going on five months now. That has never happened before and while not absolute proof of more people than ever remaining pasted to the game it is a damn good indicator of it. In my opinion more people have stuck to A18 for longer than any previous alpha.

 

Agreed. A18 is amazing and with the help from Youtubers traffic will keep coming to this game. I'm glad TFP figured out the value of what content creators can do for a product. They can destroy a product or there influence can help push it in popularity. Whoever at TFP had the wisdom to start bringing in content creators deserves a raise, that was one of the smartest things done to boost this games sales and popularity thats for sure.

[ZombieSurvivor]

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Sorry but the eye rolling i think is us towards some of the things like how easy and boring this game gets quickly.

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Sounds like your a bit defensive man. I was one of the people MM probably rolled his eyes at regarding cement comments...and thats cool. I'd rather know our voices are heard and eye rolling rather than our voices never being heard. It's all good baby, you cannot take rejection personally, it's only business.

 

Note: The word baby, in this context is not meant as your a child crying, its just slang. Like come on baby you gots to chill. sucks I gotta point that out for other readers, I do not want them getting there panties in a bunch lol.

[stallionsden]

Sounds like your a bit defensive man. It's cool. I was one of the people MM probably rolled his eyes at regarding cement...and thats cool. I'd rather know our voices are heard and eye rolling rather than our voices never being heard. It's all good baby, you cannot take rejection personally, it's only business.

 

Note: baby is not meant as your a child crying, its just slang. Like come on baby you gots to chill. Sorry I felt the need to explain that since some I know will read that wrong and get defensive.

 

nope not defensive at all. Just speaking giving feedback on what the game is lacking that never use to.

 

Thought you were a psychologist....

 

Simply speaking how i and some others feel. I can play vanilla skyrim and fallout 4 continually replayable and never gets boring. and i have thousands of hrs on them to.

 

rejection dont phase me lol they have my money so dont matter if i delete the game or not.... but whether i look at any other games they create IDK...

[stallionsden]

Agreed. A18 is amazing and with the help from Youtubers traffic will keep coming to this game. I'm glad TFP figured out the value of what content creators can do for a product. They can destroy a product or there influence can help push it to popularity. Whoever at TFP had the wisdom to start bringing in content creators deserves a raise, that was one of the smartest things done to boost this games sales and popularity thats for sure.

 

 

content is totally different to challenge, difficulty, replayability etc hey..

[ZombieSurvivor]

nope not defensive at all. Just speaking giving feedback on what the game is lacking that never use to.

 

Thought you were a psychologist....

 

Simply speaking how i and some others feel. I can play vanilla skyrim and fallout 4 continually replayable and never gets boring. and i have thousands of hrs on them to.

 

rejection dont phase me lol they have my money so dont matter if i delete the game or not.... but whether i look at any other games they create IDK...

 

I just woke up and still having my morning bowl while skimming through the comments. My bad man, I'm not dismissing anything you are saying.

Here is a little secret though. 1 individual can have a profound affect on future sales of a game never forget the value 1 customer can have over a product. You have more value than you know.

 

The Butterfly Effect

Image if you mouthed off to a customer and that customer decided to never pick up the game again and play it. What if you could see the what if. What if that person was never disrespected and kept playing the game. telling friend after friend, who in turn tell there friends and in turn tell there friends.

 

Leading to sale after sale after sale. What if one of those friends is an influential figure that spreads the word to hundreds of thousands of others that otherwise would have never bought the game. If the original person had never told his friend, this influential figure never would have known about the game. By disrespecting the one person you could lose hundreds of thousands of dollars in profit. The impact 1 customer could have over your product. It's crazy to think of right.

[Kage848]

I do use my bow more then guns. Guns arent the problem and your not reading what i am saying. The play of the game is to simple the how to make this or how to make that the answers are given to you. The challenge of the game is easy one can easily go into a poi with a bow (not hard to build enough arrows to how many you require to clear a poi)

 

the base defense or the objects and items in the game has nothing to do with what I am saying at all. build those things without needing or being told what you require for starters. the old crafting grid was great you had to place each requirement in the exact box to make what you needed. this is an example of what i mean. more challenges rather then rinse and repeat. yes collecting ingredients you cant avoid but better challenges like quests go here get this. go here get this. really do that 4 times and it is boring.

 

bring back the scared factor of the game. not many jump out your pants situations unlike previous alphas. when you truly did crap yaself. These but examples of making the game more leveled for everyone.

 

Just going to address the end of this post.

 

Nothing in this game has made me as scared as knowing demloisers are coming at gs 150. Maybe that's just me but it's the truth.

[stallionsden]

I just woke up and still having my morning bowl while skimming through the comments. My bad man, I'm not dismissing anything you are saying.

 

Here is a little secret though. 1 individual can have a profound affect on future sales of a game never forget the value 1 customer can have over a product.

 

The Butterfly Effect

Image if you mouthed off to a customer and that customer decided to never pick up the game again or play it. What if you could see the what if. What if that person was never disrespected and kept playing the game. telling friend after friend, who in turn tell there friends and in turn tell there friends. Leading to sale after sale after sale. What if one of those friends is an influential figure that spread the word to hundreds of thousands of others but if that original person had never told his friend, this influential figure never would have known about the game. By disrespecting the one person you could lose hundreds of thousands in sales.

 

I have worked retail most my life i know how it goes.... but what if i tell you you can give negative feedback and it is actually good for the game where the developers make the game more levelled not hard not easy more challenging more needing to use ones brains and cause the fwedback from long time players whom been here from the start or near the start whom have seen the greatness of the game and then watch it being made to easy and no brain work required game.

 

Whether good or bad criticism all criticism is positive for the game. When a developer gets butt hurt (not saying tfp are just generalising) then that shows they only want people's money not their input. Which is what alphas and eas are for...

 

Again the last part wasnt aimed at tfp... one such was dead linger... but anyway negative feedback is as needed as positive feedback.

 

For example... i a modder i not a great modder but i not a bad modder. Some people like my mods others hate em and others some give good feedback others tell me the mods crap per say so i look at it and see what needs fixing what can be done to better it. The negative feedback hekps the mod to become better.

[stallionsden]

Just going to address the end of this post.

 

Nothing in this game has made me as scared as knowing demloisers are coming at gs 150. Maybe that's just me but it's the truth.

 

Just dont hit the trigger and make sure you arent close use them to your advantage when there are 3 other zs in the horde sonthe demolishers blow up them or deal damage to them easy peasy

[ZombieSurvivor]

I have worked retail most my life i know how it goes.... but what if i tell you you can give negative feedback and it is actually good for the game where the developers make the game more levelled not hard not easy more challenging more needing to use ones brains and cause the fwedback from long time players whom been here from the start or near the start whom have seen the greatness of the game and then watch it being made to easy and no brain work required game.

 

Whether good or bad criticism all criticism is positive for the game. When a developer gets butt hurt (not saying tfp are just generalising) then that shows they only want people's money not their input. Which is what alphas and eas are for...

 

Again the last part wasnt aimed at tfp... one such was dead linger... but anyway negative feedback is as needed as positive feedback.

 

For example... i a modder i not a great modder but i not a bad modder. Some people like my mods others hate em and others some give good feedback others tell me the mods crap per say so i look at it and see what needs fixing what can be done to better it. The negative feedback hekps the mod to become better.

 

You are a smart man or woman. I totally agree. This was an intellectually stimulating conversation, thank you for that.

[RipClaw]

Just dont hit the trigger and make sure you arent close use them to your advantage when there are 3 other zs in the horde sonthe demolishers blow up them or deal damage to them easy peasy

 

I'm not a fan of this tactic. It usually leaves a cratered landscape behind.

[Kage848]

Just dont hit the trigger and make sure you arent close use them to your advantage when there are 3 other zs in the horde sonthe demolishers blow up them or deal damage to them easy peasy

 

Glad you brought this up. I have been reading your posts. And I must ask, why do you think theres so few zombies on horde night? You can raise them to 64 but you keep saying theres only, like 3. I mean 8 is the fewest you can have.

 

What am I missing?

[Noctoras]

Just going to address the end of this post.

 

Nothing in this game has made me as scared as knowing demloisers are coming at gs 150. Maybe that's just me but it's the truth.

 

I don't like them, since they are OP and the enemies of creative base building. Few will bother with elaborate bases, when pooof, 6000hp gone. The idea is okay, the damage over the top.

 

I'd also prefer suicide vest style. Hit it and boom it goes. The timer is just an artificial obstacle for the player, an explosion on hit or impact is more realistic and offers more opportunities.

 

It can hit the base wall and damage it, but it also serve as horde control, triggering the explosive west within the horde.

 

And if it really needs to produce a moon landscape, well..

[ZombieSurvivor]

you do know being a brown nose dont look good hey...

 

content is totally different to challenge, difficulty, replayability etc hey.. Psychologists should know the difference

 

You do know I agree with what you have been saying right? It's ok to give a compliment to people in order to make them feel better and possibly have a better day and still not be on there side. I never brown nose. I give credit where credit is due and I strongely voice my opinions, the good and the bad. I think TFP know I have no problem stating my mind on the stuff I disagree with.

[Kage848]

I'm not a fan of this tactic. It usually leaves a cratered landscape behind.

 

Not only that but theres alot that can set off a demolisher. And 2 go off your steel blocks, traps and everything else is gone. They are no joke.

[RipClaw]

Not only that but theres alot that can set off a demolisher. And 2 go off your steel blocks, traps and everything else is gone. They are no joke.

 

I know. That's why I do a lot of testing to find base designs that have a low risk of triggering the explosion but at the same time are as resource efficient as possible.

 

The problem is not even the demolishers but that many designs are only designed for 8 or 16 zombies at the same time. I usually play with 32 zombies at a time but lately I've reduced it to 8 for my melee base.

[Kage848]

I know. That's why I do a lot of testing to find base designs that have a low risk of triggering the explosion but at the same time are as resource efficient as possible.

 

The problem is not even the demolishers but that many designs are only designed for 8 or 16 zombies at the same time. I usually play with 32 zombies at a time but lately I've reduced it to 8 for my melee base.

 

Yea. People talk ♥♥♥♥ to me for not having the zombies set at 64. But the fun pimps seem to be balancing the difficulty of the game based on 8 zombies at a time.

 

All this seems to be accomplishing is the widespread use of exploit bases. And when demolishers are what they are I cant blame players for using them.

[stallionsden]

Glad you brought this up. I have been reading your posts. And I must ask, why do you think theres so few zombies on horde night? You can raise them to 64 but you keep saying theres only, like 3. I mean 8 is the fewest you can have.

 

What am I missing?

 

The number was irrelevant more meaning there not alot of zs. Like in blood moon they come in spatters. I have mine set on 64 vanilla game. (Modded i have a mod that increases that exponantially)

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

You do know I agree with what you have been saying right? It's ok to give a compliment to people in order to make them feel better and possibly have a better day and still not be on there side. I never brown nose. I give credit where credit is due and I strongely voice my opinions, the good and the bad. I think TFP know I have no problem stating my mind on the stuff I disagree with.

 

Yeh i misinterpreted your comment sorry and comment retracted

[Thecolours]

Not only that but theres alot that can set off a demolisher. And 2 go off your steel blocks, traps and everything else is gone. They are no joke.

 

Create a base design that has the turrets only shoot them in the back. They won't explode that way.

[stallionsden]

Create a base design that has the turrets only shoot them in the back. They won't explode that way.

 

To add on that. When it comes time for the demolitioners to show up create traps and deterrents away from your base maybe 5 to 20 blocks away all around (obstacles, spikes, barbed wire, ditches etc) to slow em down so you can shoot them with nore time.

[canadianbluebeer]

You can also turn DOWN the zombie block damage.

 

I've done that because:

 

1) Demolisher damage IS over the top. If it was 1 or 2 per night, then hrmm.. multiple at once? nope.

 

2) Zombie stacking/group damage is also over the top. 10 zeds standing in one place, beating on a block and geting group bonus damage?

 

3) all of the above.

 

Damage etc gets tweaked up/down all the time. We CAN compensate one way or the other. Want zeds doing more damage and be harder? Crank UP the damage/difficulty. Want less? Ayup, turn it down.

 

As for dungeon POI getting boring after the umpteenth time of doing it? Derp! Of course it does. It will always do that. In ANY game.

(yes molten core, I'm looking at you)

 

Try a different build (we'll it an alt. hmm....)

 

As for 10k hrs. grats. have a cookie. (hey, there's an achievement you could use. heh)

[RipClaw]

Yea. People talk ♥♥♥♥ to me for not having the zombies set at 64. But the fun pimps seem to be balancing the difficulty of the game based on 8 zombies at a time.

 

I also think that the game is balanced for 8 zombies at a time.

 

All this seems to be accomplishing is the widespread use of exploit bases. And when demolishers are what they are I cant blame players for using them.

 

You can build bases that can handle 64 zombies + demolishers without using exploits but you will have to spend a lot of resources on this type of base.

 

I have a dart trap funnel base that can handle 32 zombies at a time. But it consumes about 90000 iron per horde.

 

For me this is not a problem because I like to spend time in the mine but when you stream or make videos the work in the mine is not very exciting for the viewer.

 

I love watching your videos and the number of zombies during the horde doesn't matter to me.

[ginc]

As someone that's been playing on and off since before RWG even existed, the game used to be much more simple and easy back in the day. There were fewer options in terms of base building and weapons, but Wood Log Spikes and a Shotgun were all you needed for any difficulty at any game stage. You could loot POIs without killing any zombies and enter/exit through a 1-block gap. There was more RNG in terms of loot and mining, but it was really common to get everything you need well before Day 7.

 

Only real danger was cops and the occasionally janky animations of dogs lol.

 

Also, the original Auger was OP as ♥♥♥♥

[uselessjunkaccount]

It's a video game, not quantum physics. It's impossible to supply endless theory-crafting and discovery after you put 1k+ hours into it.

 

I started playing in A17 and now have over 1k hours. I can report that there was still a steep initial learning curve in A17. I remember crafting my first forge and putting it in my horrible Working Stiff base and looking at the crafting menu inside it for probably 30 minutes before I understood how the heck to actually craft anything in it. Trust me, it was still plenty convoluted enough for a new player even in A17.

 

So I learned. Now I have five of every work station before the first two weeks are up and play not only on the hardest difficulty settings but challenge myself in many ways that go beyond the given difficulty settings because the game got too easy which meant it got boring to me.

 

The only genre out there that escapes this pattern are MMORPG's with content that is increasingly scaled up over years and years with theme-park style content curated for veteran players. But that old content still exists for new players. You can't do that in a sandbox crafting game because by definition the content is not a curated Disney World for veterans but needs to be accessible for all from day one. The only other popular 'constant new content' games have the most banal and contrived 'updates' of all like GTAV Online and Fortnite or even worse yet mobile games. I'm in the industry myself and this game has given me much to think about which is quite rare for me and on this point specifically I say bravo to the developers.

[Odetta]

All I have to say is the game feels far more like a ghost town then it ever has. little to no roaming zombies, everybody is asleep, and wandering hordes are so incredibly lame as they are now. The only time the game feels out to get you is on horde night. Pre A17 it never felt quite like this.

 

Game is still fun but seems to be lacking that "relentless enemy" feeling that got me hooked in the first place. I know MM mentioned a dynamic something or other but that's no guarantee.

[bobrpggamer]

I have to agree that its too simple to get what you need or want. One of my favorite things was mining and the above ground stones that appear for every mineral is taking away my fun of exploring deep mines for my needed minerals. As well a the fact that you can buy everything at a trader, Gyrocopters to Chemistry Stations means less to look forward to in later game stages. the books are cool but some recipes could be locked for a later game stage. In other words there is not much to look forward to in the future and its become a bit more like a FPS with elements of survival, base building and crafting, when it was much better as a survival, base building and crafting game with FPS elements.

 

Its kind of a hand holding Oblivion with fast travel and quest markers compared to Morrowind, well that's an exaggeration of course as it is still a good game (as was Oblivion), it just seems now its taken a step back from previous versions IMO.

 

If I had a wish list it would be:

1) Go back to deep exploration mining to find the best sources of materials especially oil shale, and bring back iron ore instead of only scrap iron.

2) Cut down on the recipes for advanced crafting.

3) Allow players to build purple items in late stages.

4) Do not sell certain items such as vehicles, chemistry stations and the like at traders.

 

Sorry if this sounds like a whiny rant, I just agree with the boredom the OP is experiencing. Although it may more than likely be just me bored in gaming in general, in which case its not the games fault. I was playing Jagged Alliance: Back In Action and that game did get me way addicted the way 7 Days used to, so I don't know, maybe like BB King and "the thrill is gone" type-thing.