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stallionsden

Catering to New Players hurts Replayability for Experienced Players

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You can't expect first timers to know stuff, so when a guy with 10k hours experience wants it harder for everyone you have to just roll your eyes.

 

Hence why the game is boring and many only can play for a bit or play for 5 min then go nope need mods. Not like alphas ago when the game was a leveled plain where you had to actually learn the game and people would be plastered to the game figuring out recipes figuring out different things to make.

 

Now its just oh the answer is easy as the game babies players... we all were new once and most the long timers learnt the game and was still pasted to the game. New players yeh they will find it easy but they will get bored after a few hrs knowing everything is handed on a plate.

 

Sorry but the eye rolling i think is us towards some of the things like how easy and boring this game gets quickly.

 

Fallout skyrim borderlands all have replayability over and over cause its not easy it doesnt hand the easy route to players.

Edited by Roland (see edit history)

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I have over 1000 hours and the game is boring now!

 

Hence why the game is boring and many only can play for a bit or play for 5 min then go nope need mods. Not like alphas ago when the game was a leveled plain where you had to actually learn the game and people would be plastered to the game figuring out recipes figuring out different things to make.

 

Now its just oh the answer is easy as the game babies players... we all were new once and most the long timers learnt the game and was still pasted to the game. New players yeh they will find it easy but they will get bored after a few hrs knowing everything is handed on a plate.

 

Sorry but the eye rolling i think is us towards some of the things like how easy and boring this game gets quickly.

 

Fallout skyrim borderlands all have replayability over and over cause its not easy it doesnt hand the easy route to players.

 

Perhaps you should rephrase it to, "[You] don't find the game enjoyable anymore and maybe [you] should move on to something that satisfies [your] time. Or maybe roll back a few alphas."

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Hence why the game is boring and many only can play for a bit or play for 5 min then go nope need mods. Not like alphas ago when the game was a leveled plain where you had to actually learn the game and people would be plastered to the game figuring out recipes figuring out different things to make.

 

Now its just oh the answer is easy as the game babies players... we all were new once and most the long timers learnt the game and was still pasted to the game. New players yeh they will find it easy but they will get bored after a few hrs knowing everything is handed on a plate.

 

Sorry but the eye rolling i think is us towards some of the things like how easy and boring this game gets quickly.

 

Fallout skyrim borderlands all have replayability over and over cause its not easy it doesnt hand the easy route to players.

 

I don’t think that’s accurate at all. This game has stayed above 25k peak consecutive players for going on five months now. That has never happened before and while not absolute proof of more people than ever remaining pasted to the game it is a damn good indicator of it. In my opinion more people have stuck to A18 for longer than any previous alpha.

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I don’t think that’s accurate at all. This game has stayed above 25k peak consecutive players for going on five months now. That has never happened before and while not absolute proof of more people than ever remaining pasted to the game it is a damn good indicator of it. More people have stuck to A18 for longer than any previous alpha.

 

He did make a good point though; the fan base wasn't exactly small prior to the simplification for new players, so obviously there was/is a market for a tougher/more complcated game, otherwise it wouldn't have grown the way it did prior to the simplification process.

 

Plus, modding is a WHOLE lot easier than it was in earlier alpha's, and a lot more players are playing mods, so although I'm not foolish enough to say that there aren't more vanilla players than before, I will say that there is still a decent sized base of players who enjoyed and understood the more complicated game play.

 

I've always said it's a good business decision for the pimps to dumb it down and make it like every other game out there, but it still makes me sad. =)

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He did make a good point though; the fan base wasn't exactly small prior to the simplification for new players, so obviously there was/is a market for a tougher/more complcated game, otherwise it wouldn't have grown the way it did prior to the simplification process.

 

Plus, modding is a WHOLE lot easier than it was in earlier alpha's, and a lot more players are playing mods, so although I'm not foolish enough to say that there aren't more vanilla players than before, I will say that there is still a decent sized base of players who enjoyed and understood the more complicated game play.

 

I've always said it's a good business decision for the pimps to dumb it down and make it like every other game out there, but it still makes me sad. =)

 

Hey, it worked for Firaxis when they redid Xcom and now there is Xcom: Long War for those who want the longer more complex game. :)

 

Reference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_War_(mod)

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I don’t think that’s accurate at all. This game has stayed above 25k peak consecutive players for going on five months now. That has never happened before and while not absolute proof of more people than ever remaining pasted to the game it is a damn good indicator of it. In my opinion more people have stuck to A18 for longer than any previous alpha.

 

Thats cause all the new players need the answers given to them. Cant think how to make something with out the game giving them the answer.

 

I will stand on my words that alot of people. Alot of the long timers who once loved this game passionately.

 

Earlier alphas gave challenges. It made us use our brains In every aspect. Dont need to now rinse and repeat rinse and repeat rinse and repeat. Sorry if this butt hurts a few but this game has dropped a lot to many. Many have quit cause of it being boring and offering very little.

 

When a mod offers more challenges then the base game there os somethong wrong. When long timers are leaving and getting bored cause the game has turned to easy and offers no challenges or needing to use the brain. So damn right we want to see this game harder go back to people needing to use their brain.

 

25k. anyone will buy a $2 game whether they continue playing it after the first time or 5th time is a different story.

 

I do understand the need for new players to learn the game but isnt that what the starter quests were brought in for.

 

Give the new players a play of how it use to be and see their thoughts.

 

Oh when ya move this to general and give it a silly name cause it saves face give it a serious name....

Edited by stallionsden (see edit history)

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Thats cause all the new players need the answers given to them. Cant think how to make something with out the game giving them the answer.

 

I will stand on my words that alot of people. Alot of the long timers who once loved this game passionately.

 

Earlier alphas gave challenges. It made us use our brains In every aspect. Dont need to now rinse and repeat rinse and repeat rinse and repeat. Sorry if this butt hurts a few but this game has dropped a lot to many. Many have quit cause of it being boring and offering very little.

 

When a mod offers more challenges then the base game there os somethong wrong. When long timers are leaving and getting bored cause the game has turned to easy and offers no challenges or needing to use the brain. So damn right we want to see this game harder go back to people needing to use their brain.

 

25k. anyone will buy a $2 game whether they continue playing it after the first time or 5th time is a different story.

 

I do understand the need for new players to learn the game but isnt that what the starter quests were brought in for.

 

Give the new players a play of how it use to be and see their thoughts.

 

Oh when ya move this to general and give it a silly name cause it saves face give it a serious name....

 

What you describe is unavoidable and probably common for many early access games. Once your a veteran at this game it will become increasingly harder to be challenged and keep playing especially if you don't like any aspects of modding.

 

Hopefully many of the veterans will continue to come back periodically with each and every major release and find joy/entertainment on the the overall changes that occur.

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What you describe is unavoidable and probably common for many early access games. Once your a veteran at this game it will become increasingly harder to be challenged and keep playing especially if you don't like any aspects of modding.

 

Hopefully many of the veterans will continue to come back periodically with each and every major release and find joy/entertainment on the the overall changes that occur.

 

Some of that was my own views and thoughts true. But i not asking for it to become hard so only seasoned players can play it. Just make the gane so we have a actual challenge and have to use our brains. Before mods are added. I seriously play for like 15 min and am bored starter quests take 2 minutes and get rid of rinse and repeat. But those 10k hrs players even 2k and 5k etc have a legitamate reason and they also have a say and opinion to.

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Thats cause all the new players need the answers given to them. Cant think how to make something with out the game giving them the answer.

Old people have been saying this about young people for thousands of years.

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Old people have been saying this about young people for thousands of years.

 

Well true i didnt word that right. Lemme explain. Previous alphas before it became dumbed downed we had to use our brain on most the game. Now its just game gives the player the game so to speak. So of course bew players are gonna play cause its easy and the game gives them the answers.

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And what "old players" like to leave out is how much new stuff didn't even exist back then so they didn't have to learn about it. =P

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And what "old players" like to leave out is how much new stuff didn't even exist back then so they didn't have to learn about it. =P

 

None of this is to do with the new stuff added. Xpath is awesome. The new items and blocks are cool.

 

Gazz you need to stop giving non related and poor responses like you did with the realism difference of opinion and conflicting responses . Never said the new stuff was what was causing the boredom. Its to do with the simpleness of this game the no need to use our brains to play the game. I am sure you want this game replayable more then just once or twice. Not bored after 1 play thru or 15 min.

Edited by stallionsden (see edit history)

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Oh when ya move this to general and give it a silly name cause it saves face give it a serious name....

 

Never fear. If I move your posts to GD, I will be sure to give them a wholly appropriate title....

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But i not asking for it to become hard so only seasoned players can play it. Just make the game so we have a actual challenge and have to use our brains.

 

Then throw away your guns and use the bow or crossbow. Then you have to use your brain because you can't run into a POI with guns blazing. You have to be sneaky and careful and think strategically. You can also set the zombies to alway run which requires to be even more cautious.

 

If you don't use a guns anymore, this will also have an effect on the construction of the horde base. You will have to use traps and strategy instead of just making tons of ammunition for the M60 and shooting the zombies from a tower.

 

Guns are the problem. They make everything too easy because you don't have to think. You just have to shoot and that doesn't require thinking, just reacting.

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Then throw away your guns and use the bow or crossbow. Then you have to use your brain because you can't run into a POI with guns blazing. You have to be sneaky and careful and think strategically. You can also set the zombies to alway run which requires to be even more cautious.

 

If you don't use a guns anymore, this will also have an effect on the construction of the horde base. You will have to use traps and strategy instead of just making tons of ammunition for the M60 and shooting the zombies from a tower.

 

Guns are the problem. They make everything too easy because you don't have to think. You just have to shoot and that doesn't require thinking, just reacting.

 

I do use my bow more then guns. Guns arent the problem and your not reading what i am saying. The play of the game is to simple the how to make this or how to make that the answers are given to you. The challenge of the game is easy one can easily go into a poi with a bow (not hard to build enough arrows to how many you require to clear a poi)

 

the base defense or the objects and items in the game has nothing to do with what I am saying at all. build those things without needing or being told what you require for starters. the old crafting grid was great you had to place each requirement in the exact box to make what you needed. this is an example of what i mean. more challenges rather then rinse and repeat. yes collecting ingredients you cant avoid but better challenges like quests go here get this. go here get this. really do that 4 times and it is boring.

 

bring back the scared factor of the game. not many jump out your pants situations unlike previous alphas. when you truly did crap yaself. These but examples of making the game more leveled for everyone.

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I do use my bow more then guns. Guns arent the problem and your not reading what i am saying. The play of the game is to simple the how to make this or how to make that the answers are given to you. The challenge of the game is easy one can easily go into a poi with a bow (not hard to build enough arrows to how many you require to clear a poi)

 

the base defense or the objects and items in the game has nothing to do with what I am saying at all. build those things without needing or being told what you require for starters. the old crafting grid was great you had to place each requirement in the exact box to make what you needed. this is an example of what i mean. more challenges rather then rinse and repeat. yes collecting ingredients you cant avoid but better challenges like quests go here get this. go here get this. really do that 4 times and it is boring.

 

bring back the scared factor of the game. not many jump out your pants situations unlike previous alphas. when you truly did crap yaself. These but examples of making the game more leveled for everyone.

 

Can you give any specific examples? Just don't go overboard.

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Can you give any specific examples? Just don't go overboard.

 

Everyone can agree that 7 Days to Die has evolved drastically since its inception, and will continue to change. It's a whole new animal now. Whether you're into it or not is another matter.

 

Edit: Quoted myself again. Darn it.

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I don’t think that’s accurate at all. This game has stayed above 25k peak consecutive players for going on five months now. That has never happened before and while not absolute proof of more people than ever remaining pasted to the game it is a damn good indicator of it. In my opinion more people have stuck to A18 for longer than any previous alpha.

 

As a content creator doing mostly 7 days to die, this definitely is the case, and it's easily seen in views for us who make videos. A16 was pretty good for a fair while. A17 initially 1 month or so was good, but 2-3 months down the line dropped to a trickle of players actually playing (and watching) 7dtd content.

 

A18 shows how solid it is by bringing back much of the magic, adding new magic... removing some (we need better paint textures! :p but it's been much more positive than A17, people are playing, viewing, discussing, and enjoying :)

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Can you give any specific examples? Just don't go overboard.

 

i did give examples...

 

i can add some and i am sure others can to.

 

the zombies are not a threat either 5 or 10 zs are easily handled. these are not hordes more so stragglers from a horde that couldnt be bothered. bring in herds where we really are threatened. not this 3 zs at a time. The blood moons like really zs coming in stages easy. The biomes are dead one z here one z there. ooohhhh i worried.

 

thanks to jaxxteller he has made zs in biomes more but vanilla is simply boring and to easy and not how i imagine this game would end up.

 

build 4 layer walls each side of your base with a platform on the outter up 10 blocks and bam you can kill them before they destroy and enter your base. herds you wont get a chance even fortifying it and boobie trapping your base you are under greater threat.

Edited by stallionsden (see edit history)

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As a content creator doing mostly 7 days to die, this definitely is the case, and it's easily seen in views for us who make videos. A16 was pretty good for a fair while. A17 initially 1 month or so was good, but 2-3 months down the line dropped to a trickle of players actually playing (and watching) 7dtd content.

 

A18 shows how solid it is by bringing back much of the magic, adding new magic... removing some (we need better paint textures! :p but it's been much more positive than A17, people are playing, viewing, discussing, and enjoying :)

 

not what i saying. roland gave a blinded answer. nothing of what i said again i will repeat has to do with the new blocks or items added.

Take for example the dungeon POIS. how many times before they get boring and non interesting a couple play thrus maybe a few more. but after it is like argh yep this this and this.... dont stand here the floor gives way etc.

 

yes a18 has brought more players in ($$$ wise) and player base but like i said anyone will buy a easy game for $2 (obviously not the actual price) so while you have lots of newbies the game play is simple and gives false positives. alot of long timers have left or got fed up with the lack of challenges so they mod it but the vanilla game should be challenging by itself.

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how about a man driven Lime stone mill where you run in a circle to grind the limestone ^^

 

Or

 

Ignore realism and have fun ^^

 

Someone started talking about rocks?

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roland gave a blinded answer.

 

I'm not the one who is insisting that old timers like me were real gamers who liked things complex and stuck with this game because we weren't stupid and the game was close to impossible to grok but now all the new gamers are simplistic idiots who buy the game because it is cheap and easy now and that is the only type of game they like because it is so dumbed down.

 

I think it is obvious that you are the one blinded by your own experience with the game and can no longer see the complexities because they have become routine for you. I think you are completely out of touch with how new players experience this game and how challenging and interesting even vanilla is for many experienced gamers who want to be challenged.

 

Take for example dungeon POIS. You say they get boring and non-interesting after a few playthroughs because the player will learn where the false floor is, where the zombies will pop out of their hidden closet, rafter, or blind corner, etc. But what you fail to remember is that the POIS of yore had none of these features in the first place. They were so simplistic and basic that you could stand in a doorway and see and clear everything. In many cases all the zombies would exit the POI as you approached leaving a barren and derelict shell to loot without a single trap or worry for the player. Oohh how complex and challenging we had it back then....

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I'm not the one who is insisting that old timers like me were real gamers who liked things complex and stuck with this game because we weren't stupid and the game was close to impossible to grok but now all the new gamers are simplistic idiots who buy the game because it is cheap and easy now and that is the only type of game they like because it is so dumbed down.

 

I think it is obvious that you are the one blinded by your own experience with the game and can no longer see the complexities because they have become routine for you. I think you are completely out of touch with how new players experience this game and how challenging and interesting even vanilla is for many experienced gamers who want to be challenged.

 

Take for example dungeon POIS. You say they get boring and non-interesting after a few playthroughs because the player will learn where the false floor is, where the zombies will pop out of their hidden closet, rafter, or blind corner, etc. But what you fail to remember is that the POIS of yore had none of these features in the first place. They were so simplistic and basic that you could stand in a doorway and see and clear everything. In many cases all the zombies would exit the POI as you approached leaving a barren and derelict shell to loot without a single trap or worry for the player. Oohh how complex and challenging we had it back then....

 

The game was more challenging. But if you cant see playing a dungeon poi over and over and over again gets tedious amd well boring.

 

Its obvious that if i were a new player i still be saying the same thing. I can get from. The new ones only know this as the game and hadnt played the more challenging prior alphas when it was.

 

You say "I think it is obvious that you are the one blinded by your own experience with the game and can no longer see the complexities because they have become routine for you" but isnt it upto the game developers to keep a game exciting challenging replayable. When you have long timers getting bored of a game it begs the question was dumbing down the game worth it. Yes the newbies are probably enjoying it atm at this time but give em past the "honeymoon" period and see them going to play other games.....

 

If the dungeon pois were in back when the game was challenging they would be alot more fun.

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<snip>.

 

Don`t know what made you so frustrated mate, my friends have the opposite feedback, among newbs and people that have more than 4k hours, I closed up 2k on my brothers account recently and same on my own acc. Game is more enjoyable than before, balance is a bit out of the way, but the devs are on their right path.

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Don`t know what made you so frustrated mate, my friends have the opposite feedback, among newbs and people that have more than 4k hours, I closed up 2k on my brothers account recently and same on my own acc. Game is more enjoyable than before, balance is a bit out of the way, but the devs are on their right path.

 

I didnt say every long timer. I simply said alot of em

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