Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
stallionsden

Catering to New Players hurts Replayability for Experienced Players

Recommended Posts

Polls can be reasonably accurate if they are a representative sample of the whole user base. For this poll not to be somewhat accurate we'd have to prove the sample was biased. Do you think that people who post on these furms are unusually prone to playing on easier levels? I don't. Or at least have no reason to think that.

 

The polls. The sales of the game can never be truly measured. Only true measurement would be a complete inclusion. Current players on the forum and Ex players as well as all those not on the forums.

 

There is complete reasons many long timers whom have devoted alot of their time with this game have left. Others whom carry on cause mods are saving this game.

 

Ofc the kids of this generation will buy the game cause they dont need to near on do anything to win. Dont forget sales of the game some bought 7 dtd multiple copies also cause they were keen on the game when it was a challenge and scary and offered real threats and crap your pants moments.

 

Yes modding ability of a17 and a18 is far superior. But the gameplay aka as mentioned prior challenges fear factor threat etc are gone. Adding bandits wont change this.

 

Cause as stated many times apparently the game cant handle many zs or bandits or a combo of both.

 

Vanilla should be scary not a breeze. Have the setting for newbie and have different results. Ie: newbie setting - easy how the game plays now. Hints every thing given to the pkayer to make it easy for them dungeon poi path direction clues etc.

 

Next level - twice maybe three times the challenge scare and threat value of newbie setting.

 

3rd hardest setting chaos from the get go no easy hints no here go this way in dungeon poi. How the game was pre a17.

 

4th and 5th and 6th settings again difficulty above again of its predecessors.

 

That way new players can get a feel for the game and then move up.

 

Currently the threats dont equate to anything other then a hiccup.

Edited by stallionsden (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, I think that almost none really bothers to distill stallionsden's root problem here! And him being rather hyperbolic doesn't help much. And I think his root problem is more about unpredictability, rather than flat difficulty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Again, I think that almost none really bothers to distill stallionsden's root problem here! And him being rather hyperbolic doesn't help much. And I think his root problem is more about unpredictability, rather than flat difficulty.

 

Absolutely wrong i am afraid. Not exagerating anything. What the hell does unpredictability got to do with anything.

 

Maybe i dont like the easy ... oh wait i have already stated the issue with the game if you dont want to read and just throw in wong assumptions etc go for it lol... i am correct i stand by my statements.

 

Read the first post on the first page for starters. Nothing to do with blocks items etc. The long timers never got babied we got thrown in to chaos crafting on the run where you had to actually place the ingredients into the correct slot of the crafring grid was difficult. We didnt have assist recipes to know how to make things etc. We learnt it by playing and using our brains.

 

Again repeat i am not saying make it only so only long time players can play. Just remove the challenge and difficulty blockers such as the lamps pointing you which way to go in a dungeon poi.

 

Making zs a threat and scare factor again. Populate the cities on the st more. Plus other chest sheet assit stuff.

Edited by stallionsden (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again repeat i am not saying make it only so only long time players can play. Just remove the challenge and difficulty blockers such as the lamps pointing you which way to go in a dungeon poi.

 

Making zs a threat and scare factor again.

 

Not antagonizing you, the opposite actually. The quote above has everything to do with unpredictability and randomization, especially in dungeon POIs. But then again, I may have been the one who somehow misunderstood what you are saying, who knows.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hence why the game is boring and many only can play for a bit or play for 5 min then go nope need mods. Not like alphas ago when the game was a leveled plain where you had to actually learn the game and people would be plastered to the game figuring out recipes figuring out different things to make.

 

Now its just oh the answer is easy as the game babies players... we all were new once and most the long timers learnt the game and was still pasted to the game. New players yeh they will find it easy but they will get bored after a few hrs knowing everything is handed on a plate.

 

Sorry but the eye rolling i think is us towards some of the things like how easy and boring this game gets quickly.

 

Fallout skyrim borderlands all have replayability over and over cause its not easy it doesnt hand the easy route to players.

 

 

While i don't agree with everything that TFP do i understand that its their game and they could do whatever the Heck they want with it, and i try to give feedback on what i like or Dislike and try to give ideas (idk if they Generally look at them but its fun to think them up)

 

and while sometimes in-game it can get boring there's nearly always something to do. Mostly around horde nights thats my favorite part of the game, getting prepped for a Giant horde of Zombies is fun! and if you have them on max Spawn and Nightmare Running. Its like WWZ!

 

Can the Game get a Little easy? yes but i think a few small changes can be fixed to that.

 

Is it game Breaking? No

 

and if your Bored of the Game, play a later alpha or play another game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didnt really plan to make any more posts on this forum... I do however feel I need to stand up and show my support to OP. I totally agree with stallionsden! And I really do hate all the comments that is stating how wrong he/she is.. Roland is as usual leading the "you are wrong, this is a great game" faction.

 

I for one hate to have to mod a game to make it fun. I am a casual gamer and don't want to figure out how to change things. I like to click on an icon and play.

 

What really puzzles me is that Roland defends this game so hard and then creates a mod that is far from what the games stand for... But I also know he will have some good response for the reason that I wont have the intelligence to bother to reply to.

 

Vanilla game sucks cause TFP wants more money. Totally fine by me. I don't play anymore anyway.

The usual suspects keep defending the game development no matter what. Sure, have fun, but you are way out of line a lot of times.

 

@stallionsden, for whatever it's worth I'm all with you and agree to 200%.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wasn’t defending the game. I was stating that the game can’t be developed to cater to people with 1000s of hours. That’s all. I don’t think it is a simple for new players as stallions makes it out to be. That was pretty much the limit of my comments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wasn’t defending the game. I was stating that the game can’t be developed to cater to people with 1000s of hours. That’s all. I don’t think it is a simple for new players as stallions makes it out to be. That was pretty much the limit of my comments.

 

I heard a rumor that the Fun Pimps have a publisher now(company wide, not just console). Is this true?

Edited by Odetta (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I heard a rumor that the Fun Pimps have a publisher now(company, not just console). Is this true?

 

Not that I know of. I think there is a reason for such a rumor (as in there IS an interesting development afoot) but either the message from your source got a little garbled or your source is better placed than I am.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was seriously reading this thread until I realized it was solely based upon the game no longer using minecraft style crafting.

 

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

 

 

I expected a debate about how late-game resources like cement mixers and pallets of cement are lying in the front yard of 30% of basic POIs, when cement used to be midgame level achievement.

 

I expected comments about how AKs are found by day 4 when they used to be non-existent until day 35 (or you found only half the parts to one until day 50).

 

I expected some comments about how starting from scratch and replaying now requires most people to up the difficulty or make self-imposed rules/skill builds in order to stay interested for one more playthrough, when previously I looked forward to getting to late-game so I would start a new playthrough without the need to change anything.

 

.

.

.

.

.

 

Manual crafting.

 

Huh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I didnt really plan to make any more posts on this forum... I do however feel I need to stand up and show my support to OP. I totally agree with stallionsden! And I really do hate all the comments that is stating how wrong he/she is.. Roland is as usual leading the "you are wrong, this is a great game" faction.

 

I for one hate to have to mod a game to make it fun. I am a casual gamer and don't want to figure out how to change things. I like to click on an icon and play.

 

What really puzzles me is that Roland defends this game so hard and then creates a mod that is far from what the games stand for... But I also know he will have some good response for the reason that I wont have the intelligence to bother to reply to.

 

Vanilla game sucks cause TFP wants more money. Totally fine by me. I don't play anymore anyway.

The usual suspects keep defending the game development no matter what. Sure, have fun, but you are way out of line a lot of times.

 

@stallionsden, for whatever it's worth I'm all with you and agree to 200%.

 

Thank you shin. Your not the only one who doesnt play this game anymore or losing interest etc. Do tfp care..... You hit alot of good points Thank You and agree with all.

 

No matter how many hours one has in a vanilla game a developer shouldnt state the game requires mods to stay interested. I play both modded and vanilla games. but glad more people are speaking up :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wasn’t defending the game. I was stating that the game can’t be developed to cater to people with 1000s of hours. That’s all. I don’t think it is a simple for new players as stallions makes it out to be. That was pretty much the limit of my comments.

 

If a game cant be catered for the mass inc those that have stuck by tfp since the begining and make a game that caters for everyone. They are in the wrong business.

 

MM stated many times this game has to cater for everyone not just the seasoned. But now it only caters for beginners leaving out the seasoned. But we all know why they catered for the new players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I was seriously reading this thread until I realized it was solely based upon the game no longer using minecraft style crafting.

 

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

 

 

I expected a debate about how late-game resources like cement mixers and pallets of cement are lying in the front yard of 30% of basic POIs, when cement used to be midgame level achievement.

 

I expected comments about how AKs are found by day 4 when they used to be non-existent until day 35 (or you found only half the parts to one until day 50).

 

I expected some comments about how starting from scratch and replaying now requires most people to up the difficulty or make self-imposed rules/skill builds in order to stay interested for one more playthrough, when previously I looked forward to getting to late-game so I would start a new playthrough without the need to change anything.

 

.

.

.

.

.

 

Manual crafting.

 

Huh.

 

The workbenches and how easy it is to get guns does need to be addressed in vanilla, imo. I used to celebrate when I found a basic pistol or shotgun. Now it's like "Oh, an AK."

 

I only brought up the old style of crafting because it made it WAY harder to craft what you need mid-combat. Now if folks are bleeding and have no bandages, they run off and quickly craft some. Out of arrows? Run off and quickly craft some, etc. I feel it's kinda taken the wind out of the sails for combat in the game.

 

Having said that, I do miss the old mold system we had for the forges, where you had to sacrifice gun parts in order to make molds so you could make your own guns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This game has changed a lot. It is better in my opinion with this update but only due to the modding community.

 

The game is clearly being developed / modified to appease the "console" crowd. A17 was terrible but A18 did make a few improvements and I certainly can't blame TFP for doing so even if I disagree. It IS about money as it always is and while the atmosphere surrounding many of the comments is seriously bs it is what it is. I have a fair amount of hours in this game. I have run several servers as well. Sure, nothing as fancy as the Guppy has or others, but still it has drawn players to the game.

 

The arrogance of some of the posts is clear. Then, the poster trys to back tread and pretend they were only kidding. No, things have changed here and not in a better fashion. It is what it is. When dollar signs cloud judgement no amount of conversation will fix the issues or change minds. It is what it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This game has changed a lot. It is better in my opinion with this update but only due to the modding community.

 

The game is clearly being developed / modified to appease the "console" crowd. A17 was terrible but A18 did make a few improvements and I certainly can't blame TFP for doing so even if I disagree. It IS about money as it always is and while the atmosphere surrounding many of the comments is seriously bs it is what it is. I have a fair amount of hours in this game. I have run several servers as well. Sure, nothing as fancy as the Guppy has or others, but still it has drawn players to the game.

 

The arrogance of some of the posts is clear. Then, the poster trys to back tread and pretend they were only kidding. No, things have changed here and not in a better fashion. It is what it is. When dollar signs cloud judgement no amount of conversation will fix the issues or change minds. It is what it is.

 

I agree with your post on many things. A17 i played little due to a personal tradegy but back in a18 and i loved the modding capabilities the new items and blocks. But that is as far as anything in the game goes. Not gonna repeat my thoughts as i posted it already and backed up by others as well.

 

I never back tracked once and stand by everything i have stated and posted. I dont back down even with attempts to shut me up. Never have never will but i know who you were talking bout with that and thank you for contributing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So this thread took a turn, and is now summarized as "A16 (or insert your favorite pre-A17 alpha here) was better than this".

 

I think many of us knew this.

 

I think many of us have been saying it for a long time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a new player, I would like to clarify some points. I'm now at maybe 170-200 hours.

 

I played my first couple of hours on MP with some IRL friends on A16 just before the A17 get out. I was afraid of my shadow and didn't understand anything we were doing.

 

We then hoped on A17 and we were struggling to collect resources in an efficient way; fight BM in a good place (firsts one were done in an even field with torches and bedroll not far away to come back to fight). It took us 3 weeks to get ONE bicycle... Why ? Cause we were learning how to game. We hadn't any ideas about useful skills at the beginning, dropping an AK was a debate to who was to carry it and ammo was spare cause we didn't know how to make it.

 

Next game was solo and even if GS was easier, it felt hard (Nomad + standard build). Why ? Cause guess what, I was just getting the beginning for mining and forgeS. I wasn't doing good but it was better. I get up to 110 GS before getting back on MP.

 

Several MP games later which were interrupted for different reasons (corrupted save, server [miss]management, etc.)

Now we are at a point were by day 7-10 we have a functional base/treasure box; a POI modified to handle BM which will grow with GS, a couple of mines and weapons of choice (low quality obviously). By day 14 we now have a basic supply of ammo and the closest city cleaned.

And guess what : we still know we could greatly improve on some subjects (base building, electricity and traps, traders quests [what are G5 quests btw]) and do better. How long did it take us to reach this point ? I'll say at least 100 hours. How do we learn ? Trial and error mostly and 2 of us following the forum.

 

My point ? I begin to really enjoy the game because I'm feeling I get a grab on it.

How do we play ? By having fun and doing so stupid ♥♥♥♥ (let's just form the POI during the BM because there is loot down there !) !

 

I can fully understand the fact that game could be repetitive after 1000h ; only game I've spent more than 1000h is DotA and i'm playing since v6 (DotA 1 for peasants :p). I still cannot understand that some people complain about denying and map awareness in DotA, but guess what ? I've spent more than 3000h on this f*****g game...

I would even say that you know the game mechanic so well, you know which base design is most efficient by day 7/14/21 based on your GS and near POI and will not spent one extra bullet more than necessary. That's normal

 

Is this game too easy on newbies ? No, the easier difficulty come from the fact that if you watched 50 hours of game-play from a guy who play at GS 200 on nightmare; you'll pick some of his methods or understand the fact that you can and have to craft ammo (took us 20h to get that while only looting). For me that mean, you begin with a 40h of game knowledge and you are not a new player at this point.

Is the game too hard ? Neither, you can tweak almost everything you want to suit your play-style and even do that while in game...

Edited by Nyecto
typo (see edit history)
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Putting aside opinions about how easy or hard the gameplay is, I really can't believe that someone is complaining that they've spent $24.99 (ish - possibly much less if you bought it on sale) on a game which they've had 1000 hours worth out of, and probably more to come. That works out to a measly 2.5 cents per hour! 1.5 cents per hour if you bought it on sale.

 

Compare this to AAA games, which realistically are more at $29.99 - $49.99, where you'd be looking at 8 - 16 hours of single player content and then a few hundred hours of online content (if there is any and if you enjoy it), which in some cases is just repeating the exact same tasks, on the exact same maps over and over and over again.

 

I honestly don't know what kind of answer you're looking for here :distrust: Is this just a bait thread?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is this game too easy on newbies ? No, the easier difficulty come from the fact that if you watched 50 hours of game-play from a guy who play at GS 200 on nightmare; you'll pick some of his methods or understand the fact that you can and have to craft ammo (took us 20h to get that while only looting). For me that mean, you begin with a 40h of game knowledge and you are not a new player at this point.

Is the game too hard ? Neither, you can tweak almost everything you want to suit your play-style and even do that while in game...

 

Exactly this balance that is not too easy for beginners but also not too difficult must be maintained. Hardcore players often do not consider this.

 

I have over 3000 hours in 7 Days to die but I don't consider myself a hardcore player. My main interest is building and I hope that the developers will pay more attention to this in the next versions. Killing zombies and looting POIs gets boring very fast. I know almost every POI by heart by now. But if you can be creative then you can enjoy the game much longer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Baratan
Hence why the game is boring and many only can play for a bit or play for 5 min then go nope need mods. Not like alphas ago when the game was a leveled plain where you had to actually learn the game and people would be plastered to the game figuring out recipes figuring out different things to make.

 

Now its just oh the answer is easy as the game babies players... we all were new once and most the long timers learnt the game and was still pasted to the game. New players yeh they will find it easy but they will get bored after a few hrs knowing everything is handed on a plate.

 

Sorry but the eye rolling i think is us towards some of the things like how easy and boring this game gets quickly.

 

Fallout skyrim borderlands all have replayability over and over cause its not easy it doesnt hand the easy route to players.

 

You got your money's worth. What is the problem?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So this thread took a turn, and is now summarized as "A16 (or insert your favorite pre-A17 alpha here) was better than this".

 

I think many of us knew this.

 

I think many of us have been saying it for a long time.

 

Meh...I think it’s a few of you saying it over and over and over again and using every thread you can—even someone just asking for tips on how to play— to repeat yourself again. I’m a little shocked stallions finally said he wasn’t going to repeat himself again....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont back down even with attempts to shut me up.

 

lol...what attempts were those? This very thread is evidence to the contrary.

 

But viva la revolucion...I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...