Combat crafting and survival.

[fragtzack]

Decided to step away from this game for a while as too many things are changing for my tastes these days, understand this game in development so I have patience to wait until a18 gets to a polished state to play again.

 

As I step away for a bit, want to point out something 7D2D game direction:

 

What 7D2D does have that most other survival games don't is a fully destructible and buildable world.

 

Plenty of other games that do a lot of things better, the list of games and the aspects those games do better than 7D2D is huge. A destructible world (voxels) is what sets 7D2D apart and I suspect keeps most hard core fans still here and coming back.

 

I love the a18 direction and balancing, but am concerned that 7D2D is getting away from the thing that most drew me to this game in a15 years ago: A better minecraft with robust crafting and zombies. Turning 7D2D into a combat/loot fest focused game seems a non-win situation because there is other games that do this way better. Yes, I want zombies and to have challenging survival but not at the expense of crafting/building goodness.

[HungryZombie]

There are more things you can craft in the game now than there ever was.

[Hollowprime]

There are more things you can craft in the game now than there ever was.

 

Quality > quantity

[Jeraal]

Quality > quantity

 

Exactly! I would rather be able to build a bunch of nice things rather than a crap ton of... well, crap.

[Reth]

Decided to step away from this game for a while as too many things are changing for my tastes these days, understand this game in development so I have patience to wait until a18 gets to a polished state to play again.

 

As I step away for a bit, want to point out something 7D2D game direction:

 

What 7D2D does have that most other survival games don't is a fully destructible and buildable world.

 

Plenty of other games that do a lot of things better, the list of games and the aspects those games do better than 7D2D is huge. A destructible world (voxels) is what sets 7D2D apart and I suspect keeps most hard core fans still here and coming back.

 

I love the a18 direction and balancing, but am concerned that 7D2D is getting away from the thing that most drew me to this game in a15 years ago: A better minecraft with robust crafting and zombies. Turning 7D2D into a combat/loot fest focused game seems a non-win situation because there is other games that do this way better. Yes, I want zombies and to have challenging survival but not at the expense of crafting/building goodness.

 

Agree.

 

To me, the most important feature of 7D2D is and has always been the ability to change your entire world. Every single block of it. To take it all apart and rebuild it. That's what so few other games have.

 

I believe TFP is making a mistake trying to outdo other games in terms of survival mechanics, quests, backstory and such. That's not where 7D2D strengths lie.

[JCrook1028]

There are more things you can craft in the game now than there ever was.

 

Source for that assertion?

[HungryZombie]

Quality > quantity

 

Then people need to be more elaborate on the feedback. Saying they are taking crafting away doesn't make sense without perspective.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Source for that assertion?

 

My eyes.

 

Ok how about confirmation from a game dev?

 

 

Originally Posted by HungryZombie

 

Is it just me or does there seem to be more things you can craft now than there were in A16?

 

Reply from Gazz: Yes, there is and crafting perks like engineering are useful to anyone doing serious base building.

They are more useful like ever before because they don't just reduce crafting time but actually decrease ingredient cost.

(Science is due for a bit of an upgrade)

 

From <https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?133169-A18-1-(b6)-Changes-Mining-iron-ore-yields-iron-!&p=1057685#post1057685>

[Jedo]

Then people need to be more elaborate on the feedback. Saying they are taking crafting away doesn't make sense without perspective.

You mean like "basebuilding is pointless," but when you ask them to elaborate they can't? *eye roll*

[GhettoNinjaStar]

Can I get just a few from that HUGE list of games that are all doing things so great?

[JCrook1028]

Then people need to be more elaborate on the feedback. Saying they are taking crafting away doesn't make sense without perspective.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

My eyes.

 

Ok how about confirmation from a game dev?

 

 

Originally Posted by HungryZombie

 

Is it just me or does there seem to be more things you can craft now than there were in A16?

 

Reply from Gazz: Yes, there is and crafting perks like engineering are useful to anyone doing serious base building.

They are more useful like ever before because they don't just reduce crafting time but actually decrease ingredient cost.

(Science is due for a bit of an upgrade)

 

From <https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?133169-A18-1-(b6)-Changes-Mining-iron-ore-yields-iron-!&p=1057685#post1057685>

 

Well, I went and downloaded A16.4 and actually counted the recipes. Want the facts?

A18 recipes - 505

A16.4 recipes - 539.

[Roland]

Well, I went and downloaded A16.4 and actually counted the recipes. Want the facts?

A18 recipes - 505

A16.4 recipes - 539.

 

Loads of recipes were deleted thanks to the shape selector tool for blocks. Every shape for every block type was reduced to a single recipe for that block type. If A18 only has a total recipe count that is shy of 16.4 by 34 recipes they must have added about a hundred new recipes that were of much greater significance than outside corner wood frame.

 

Quality > quantity....

[JCrook1028]

Loads of recipes were deleted thanks to the shape selector tool for blocks. Every shape for every block type was reduced to a single recipe for that block type. If A18 only has a total recipe count that is shy of 16.4 by 34 recipes they must have added about a hundred new recipes that were of much greater significance than outside corner wood frame.

 

Quality > quantity....

 

That's debatable and highly subjective in what recipe is worth more than another. I personally would call all the added clothing recipes useless as I never use em. I'd not count the resource bundles that A18 added. We could go on getting lost in d4etails all we want but to a lot of us, meaningful crafting has been hit and hit hard. When I can play the game and never feel the need to craft a single tool or weapon beyond the stone age something is broken.

[Jugginator]

Loads of recipes were deleted thanks to the shape selector tool for blocks. Every shape for every block type was reduced to a single recipe for that block type. If A18 only has a total recipe count that is shy of 16.4 by 34 recipes they must have added about a hundred new recipes that were of much greater significance than outside corner wood frame.

 

Quality > quantity....

 

Right. For instance, all of the shape blocks now combined into one craftable item (all blocks, furniture, etc). That's prob 100-200 recipies right there. A 16 had all of those as individual recipies, so being less 34 recipies shows there's a ton more to craft in A18.

 

A18 way more crafting than any before lol

[Doctor3D]

A lot of recipes in the previous versions were blocks that we don't have anymore like adobe peach and adobe white. We also had all the molds you had to craft for the items, as well as all the gun parts you created. Those things would pad the numbers for previous alphas quite a bit. Plenty to craft in the game, just not much overall depth to it.

[HungryZombie]

Well, I went and downloaded A16.4 and actually counted the recipes. Want the facts?

A18 recipes - 505

A16.4 recipes - 539.

 

Many of those recipes were moved to the shape selector and are still available. It's an interesting try but I'm not going to count the things moved to the selector as being removed since you can still in fact make them.

[Roland]

That's debatable and highly subjective in what recipe is worth more than another. I personally would call all the added clothing recipes useless as I never use em. I'd not count the resource bundles that A18 added. We could go on getting lost in d4etails all we want but to a lot of us, meaningful crafting has been hit and hit hard. When I can play the game and never feel the need to craft a single tool or weapon beyond the stone age something is broken.

 

I agree completely that it is unfortunate that crafting is the part of the game being simplified. As to the necessity of crafting for survival I hope they can balance things a bit more. I’d like to see them go further with the rarity of anything better than brown or orange being found in loot. That will make the rare find of yellow and higher items that much more precious and allow players to craft most yellow through blue gear themselves before it is ever found.

[JCrook1028]

I agree completely that it is unfortunate that crafting is the part of the game being simplified. As to the necessity of crafting for survival I hope they can balance things a bit more. I’d like to see them go further with the rarity of anything better than brown or orange being found in loot. That will make the rare find of yellow and higher items that much more precious and allow players to craft most yellow through blue gear themselves before it is ever found.

 

We can hope but frankly I don't see it happening. Seems loot is king now. All else must bow, player choice be damned. It's loot or nothing these days. The only way I see the tool weapon issue being balanced again is if nothing but lvl 1's and 2's drop til you hit high gamestage (350 or so?) then the lvl 6's appear. That way all the middle stuff gets crafted.

[Kalarro]

 

What 7D2D does have that most other survival games don't is a fully destructible and buildable world.

 

Plenty of other games that do a lot of things better, the list of games and the aspects those games do better than 7D2D is huge. A destructible world (voxels) is what sets 7D2D apart and I suspect keeps most hard core fans still here and coming back.

 

Exactly. Well, look madmoles comment (grab your chair if you dont want to fall):

 

If I could do it all over again I'd have thrown out the diggable terrain. Alpha 1 could have had static Unity terrain, a simple water plane, ran 30% better, used way less ram, console wouldn't have been so beat down, allowed faster vehicles, looked as good as 18's terrain does now, (Minus the Justin talent) and we wouldn't have wasted energy on mining, cave systems, multiple versions of trees, etc. Mining could have been mining POIs with respawning nuggets like rust/skyrim/subnautica with a nice model. We'd anger 10% and gain 200% new players that don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about deformable terrain and buggy water.

 

At some point we might release a static terrain option for 7 days just to see the performance gains. IMO most people would run it for the performance gains and better pvp, none of this wimpy underground base business, fight like a man like in TWD. You don't see those guys living in caves/mines.

 

What may have made us great has also slowed us down and kept us indy looking/performing. I think mining is ok but its not part of the secret sauce, we'd still have mining it just wouldn't be ugly 3d mining. At this point we'd kind of solved it mostly but it could have saved us a lot of time and headaches, allowing us to focus on cool stuff like we are able to now.

 

The first thing I say when "selling" this games to others is, it is a 100% destructible world. Even better, not only destructible but everything returns something useful when gathered/scrapped.

You think I can sell this game to others bc of the shooting it has? Or the mele combat? Hey Mat, come check this game out, it has an amazing combat, look how I hit zombies in the head with this club. Obviously not. I show them how I can dig/scrap/destroy everything, how I get useful thigs from all that, and how I can build so many things incuding awesome defenses. Why? BC if I just showed them the combat, they would say... sooooo why are you playng this game again?

[minisith]

Exactly. Well, look madmoles comment (grab your chair if you dont want to fall):

 

 

 

The first thing I say when "selling" this games to others is, it is a 100% destructible world. Even better, not only destructible but everything returns something useful when gathered/scrapped.

You think I can sell this game to others bc of the shooting it has? Or the mele combat? Hey Mat, come check this game out, it has an amazing combat, look how I hit zombies in the head with this club. Obviously not. I show them how I can dig/scrap/destroy everything, how I get useful thigs from all that, and how I can build so many things incuding awesome defenses. Why? BC if I just showed them the combat, they would say... sooooo why are you playng this game again?

 

if you actually read madmole's post he only mentioned underground. above ground would still be destructable. stop trying to sabotage what madmole says for your own narrative.

[Doctor3D]

Exactly. Well, look madmoles comment (grab your chair if you dont want to fall):

 

The first thing I say when "selling" this games to others is, it is a 100% destructible world. Even better, not only destructible but everything returns something useful when gathered/scrapped.

 

 

No doubt..same here

 

I was shocked to read that too. That's like the foundation of the game. A random phrase that came to mind when I read that was 'damn, he just committed developer-blasphemy' lol..dramatic, i know..

 

I can't imagine that many people playing this game as much as they do without the voxels. Maybe I am living in the worlds most isolated bubble and only 10% of the people out there are like me and you like he claims, but I highly doubt that..I truly think the success of the game is greatly owed to the voxels...Ah, well...what can you do..

[JaxTeller718]

if you actually read madmole's post he only mentioned underground. above ground would still be destructable. stop trying to sabotage what madmole says for your own narrative.

 

We all "actually read" it. And it STILL sucks. We WANT underground.

[RipClaw]

if you actually read madmole's post he only mentioned underground. above ground would still be destructable. stop trying to sabotage what madmole says for your own narrative.

 

But that includes the landscape above ground as well. When I flatten a hill to make room for a base, it's no different than when I dig a basement or a mine.

 

The POIs would still be destructible and you could probably cut down trees and destroy rocks because they are separate objects but otherwise nothing could be changed in the landscape.

 

I know games where you can't change the landscape but have a building system. You always have to work with foundations to have a level ground.

[Kalarro]

if you actually read madmole's post he only mentioned underground. above ground would still be destructable. stop trying to sabotage what madmole says for your own narrative.

 

Not sabotaging anything. First, mining underground is awesome. he talks about another type of mining. So what, the typical bad survival game where there is a rock and you hit it until depleted? Sucks balls.

Second, underground affects the above ground too. There are mountains and irregular terrain, how the hell can you modify the above ground and not underground.

[Jeraal]

Exactly. Well, look madmoles comment (grab your chair if you dont want to fall):...

 

After reading his comment, I just threw up in my mouth a little bit there.

[Ghostlight]

I for one would not be playing this game if it weren't for the voxels.