Alpha 18 zombies are too tanky early on.

[psychatix]

I found an Iron spear, and an iron sledgehammer, and brass knuckles. It is taking me at least a dozen blows to the head in order to kill them. Now, they can occasionally burst into a sprint after you, which I love by the way, makes Hordes feel threatening, even a single zombie is threatening now, but you can't exactly fight a zombie when it's in a sprint.

 

This makes you turn and run for a bit until it stops, or slows to a jog so you can back peddle while striking. The problem is with how tanky zombies are now, a single zombie fight is taking too much time to actually finish. I have an Iron spear and a sledgehammer, the zombie should be going down much quicker than this, and scale up with my level so that if i don't keep my damage on par with my level by whatever calculations the game makes, THEN the zombies start turning into sandbags and bullet sponges. At the moment I"m level 3 and it's difficult with iron weapons I"ve looted.

 

I get that I need to put points to increase damage and effectiveness, but even so it shouldn't take this long to defeat a single basic zombie (not the big biker one who obviously has more health than the others as it should be) with an iron spear, that SHOULD also be causing bleed damage (on a zombie somehow lul) to it.

 

I fought a zombie bear after walking into a bar called the Bear's den that is just caging 2 massive bears in a cage on the second story. First off, ♥♥♥♥ing beautiful POI. It was funny, threatening, made me think there were bears freely walking around the bar, I'm climbing to the second story to peek into windows. Good job on this one, I love it....BUT...

 

I got a high ground advantage, shot the bear with..4 arrows and 3 hits of my iron spear and it dropped dead. All body shots, no head shots. A BEAR was easier to kill than a basic zombie. A zombie seems to take 5-6 headshots with arrows to kill , possibly more, but that was the last time I shot one with stone arrows at the head as best as I could. So I think basic zombies have too much health right now and should be nerfed slightly since they now have the ability to go feral for a random amount of time, which helps them actually do their job and force players to disengage and run to safety and kite out. I've had a feral cahse me for a second, and I've had a feral chase me for twenty seconds of full sprint with me just running around a rooftop jumping air conditioners until she stopped. This feels good, the health doesn't.

 

Don't get me started on the dogs. I've always hated and loved the zombie dogs in this game. I still do, I'm glad dog day isn't a thing (I think?) anymore. Dogs are still unbalanced in this game from what I"ve seen. I could be wrong, but it felt like to me I can outrun them now, that's good. Yet if I try to fight one, it's eating 6-8 headshots with my iron spear before it drops dead. I've had a zombie dog take upwards of 12 blows (frantically hitting it as it attacked me, so not all were in the head) to drop. I want the dogs in the game beecause it adds a unique flavor ot the world, and makes for some great jump scares and ♥♥♥♥ your pants moments, but with their speed, how they're positioned in the world (check every ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ fence, don't blindly walk into a backyard) and the ability to come in packs, and fast attacking speed with bleed damage, infection, the chance to stun you, etc...

 

I think the dog's health needs to be lowered quite a bit. I should be able to kill a dog in no more than 3 hits with an Iron spear early game, maybe 4. The vultures suck too, but they feel kinda ok. Took me 5-6 hits with an iron spear to kill one, used to take 3 with a stone axe.

 

I'm aware weapons get weaker the lower quality AND durability they are. considering most of what we find in the world is low quality and durability to start, makes for an already tough time early on to fight these creatures. Just my two cents on the matter. I'm new to Alpha 18, so maybe i'm missing stuff, I do see we can make more stone tools, maybe a constant upkeep on a stone weapon at max durability for as much damage as I can pump out of it will solve my issue.

 

Otherwise, so far this update is pretty amazing.

[Scyris]

Iron sledge even a tier 1 one with no mods should be killing a standard male zombie in 3-4 headshots and this is on warrior difficulty. Rest of the werapons thou? yeah, expect it to take forever as their damage values for most of them other than steel/baseball bat are just too low for the melee. I do agree the dogs bleed chance is way to high, I swear they bleed me virtually every time they hit me no matter what armor I am wearing.

[Roland]

There’s an easy fix for this but I know you won’t want to hear it.

[AtomicUs5000]

You're probably right. It doesn't last very long though... maybe the first couple days.

With no perks applied and with a primitive bow, a single zombie can sometimes take 6 shots to the head with stone arrows... that is true.

For the most part, I usually avoid most zombies the first few days and level up mainly from getting a base started and level 1 trader quests... doing the buried goods quests first.

I'll enter house POIs and just raid the kitchens for food, water, jars, and hopefully a cooking pot and run out.

 

When I do have to face zombies the first few days, I find that mixing things up to be best. I normally shoot a couple arrows, throw a stone spear as they get closer, then power attack with the club. I don't mess with sledgehammers early game, even if I happen to find a higher tier steel one. It's too draining and due to your low level, likely to get you in hairy situations.

 

Dogs and wolves are brutal during the first days if you don't have a firearm. Wolves especially... and they're sneaky too. They are supposed to howl now before attacking, but I don't think it works all the time like that. It's really cheesy, but I find the easiest way to deal with a surprise wolf attack is to not run. Place a 2-high stand of frames and from the top reach the ground and place a couple more stands. Bandage up if needed and shoot arrows. They can break the frames, but it's really slow. Plenty of time to repair, or even upgrade them. Like I said, it's cheesy... but being that they can sneak up on you and make you bleed out so fast is the making of a cheap death in my eyes.

[psychatix]

I might be missing something here, don't the level 1 trader quests still send you a GREAT distance away to find something? Normally I walk until I find a city, and I start raiding the important POIs like bookstores, gun shops, and gas stations. I've been playing since Alpha 7, maybe my method is wrong now, but I still firmly believe zombies have too much health and should SCALE with you. Dogs and Wolves need to be killed much quicker or have their damage heavily reduced. Even without bleed damage, they can 2 or 3 shot you at first.

[Scyris]

I might be missing something here, don't the level 1 trader quests still send you a GREAT distance away to find something? Normally I walk until I find a city, and I start raiding the important POIs like bookstores, gun shops, and gas stations. I've been playing since Alpha 7, maybe my method is wrong now, but I still firmly believe zombies have too much health and should SCALE with you. Dogs and Wolves need to be killed much quicker or have their damage heavily reduced. Even without bleed damage, they can 2 or 3 shot you at first.

 

So... don't mess with them without a gun? or proper gear? I generally stay away from dogs/wolves until I have at least a padded armor set (has 39 armor total with full set), and preferably when I have a gun. Early game in a18 I often ignore as many zombies as I can at first and just loot what I can. My first goal is to find the poi I like to base in, in the forest biome, hopefully with a trader decently close. I hate building a base in 7dtd I never liked it. In a16 I used to live underground, but thats not as viable in a17 and 18 as it used to be. Can still be done, just gotta make sure your far enough down (30+ blocks) so zombies won't hear you down there. Horde night though you need to get out of the underground as they will dig straight down to you.

 

As for the trader quest its random, it depends if there is a tier 1 poi close, and if there is several then its just rng hoping it picks one close. Tier 1 buried supplies quests are usually 200-400m from the trader, I usually do a few of those first early game. The t1 buried supply quest has a very small search area compared to normal buried tresure quests. I think its a 5 block wide area abouts with no perks or lucky goggles.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

There’s an easy fix for this but I know you won’t want to hear it.

 

Let me guess: Turn down difficulty? XD

[AtomicUs5000]

I might be missing something here, don't the level 1 trader quests still send you a GREAT distance away to find something? Normally I walk until I find a city, and I start raiding the important POIs like bookstores, gun shops, and gas stations. I've been playing since Alpha 7, maybe my method is wrong now, but I still firmly believe zombies have too much health and should SCALE with you. Dogs and Wolves need to be killed much quicker or have their damage heavily reduced. Even without bleed damage, they can 2 or 3 shot you at first.

 

Some are far, but most of the time for me they seem to range between 600 meters to a km away.

Getting those quests in the first few days have been key for me. It's a good source for starter med kits, vitamins, and anti-biotics fromn the rewards, as well as a lot of canned food from the treasure.

 

That method could still work just fine, but I think it's risky.I always play dead is dead... so I tend to not take risks until after the first week. The hp on dogs and wolves were decreased significantly. A dog is like 1 arrow and 1 thrown spear then dead. A wolf maybe twice that. The regular spear attack on them is crap though. If you just sat there stabbing it with a spear, the bites will probably kill you first. The bleed is brutal, but yeah their attack damage is pretty strong. However, there is usually a lot of time in between bites. If there's nothing around to run to and climb on before it can get a second bite in, still gonna recommend having frames handy.

[psychatix]

Hard not ot mess with zombies when....they're sleeping in the buildings I'm trying to loot?...Or when they aggro me outside so I have to run away far so they drop aggro and therefore can loot nearby buildings because the'yll just follow and break in? What do you mean don't mess with them lmao. I literally can't avoid zombies if I want to loot. Like I said, there's some POIs that have a dog literally sitting there perfectly still around a corner to jumpscare you.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I was under the impression spear melee was causing bleed, and had high range which is great. I'm not aware how much more damage you get from throwing them, but I wasn't keen on tossing a long range melee weapon and being left with a stone axe or a bone knife.

[warmer]

I play of default difficulty and it takes 2 power attack headshots max on average zeds with a stone spear...

 

This is as long as the first head shot knocks them down. Then hit them with the 2nd while they are trying to get up. Works 80%+ for me minus the two bigger health dudes we encounter. They take 4-5 with a stone spear.

 

A dozen hit with an iron spear? I can one shot most zombies in the head with a power attack.

 

I guess you just aren't being very tactful with your combat are you?

[Aldranon]

I was under the impression spear melee was causing bleed, and had high range which is great. I'm not aware how much more damage you get from throwing them, but I wasn't keen on tossing a long range melee weapon and being left with a stone axe or a bone knife.

 

Well there's the problem: Make four or five spears, put them all on your belt and throw them. Done!

[HungryZombie]

If you hit 'E' right after you throw it you get your spear back right away. Range does count but you can get the spear back from much further than you'd think and it's pretty instant after the throw, assuming you hit the zombie.

[SickPuppy]

Feels head hitbox is real small now and if the zombie is raising it's arm it'll block yr perfectly aimed head shot.

 

Iron sledge can take zombies on insane with a few hits, so it sounds like they're blocking yr swing, no way should it take a dozen hits. Best strategy I found is:

 

* get just close enough to trigger their swing, u can be quite far and they start attacking;

* backup and wait till their arm is out the way then go in with yr melee;

 

I kinda like how it's not a hack n slash and more a strategic fight, but some of the sledge misses seem a bit too drastic.

[Scyris]

Melee combat has honestly never been right for the longest time, in A16 you had to aim the crosshair ABOVE the zombies head to score a headshot. Think in a15 it was like that too. A17 comes and suddendly every melee is raycasting like a gunshot requiring perfect accuarcy to hit, and then a18 hits, and it somehow.. is worse than A17 was. They did fix it a bit, but it still feels weird and a lot of the times hits miss that should have clearly clipped the side of their head for a headshot.

[SickPuppy]

I'm not a programmer, guessing it's a voxel issue. They're still working on zombie pathing and moonwalking, hopefully it gets better.

 

If I'm on a 2 high platform they sometimes still run back and forth to a nearby boulder or tree and start smacking it for 2minutes before they decide to focus on me again. Zombies are stupid though so it's all good.

[beHypE]

The biggest issue I have with low damage melee weapons (at least early game) is that you need such a tremendous amount of hits that you actually trigger their rage all the time.

 

I've started a pure Fortitude build yesterday and even though I got very lucky on day 1 to find Q3 Iron knuckles, with 3 points in Fortitude and 1 in brawler, they still only had 9 dmg and 19 power attack damage. The knuckle wraps I crafted first had 6 dmg and 12 power attack damage; my Q1 stone spear has a power attack damage of 39, with no points in perception/spears. When you can't properly trade blows yet because of a lack of armor/pain tolerance, I can't help but think I'd be better off playing the spear for now : better range, no repair cost, better damage.

 

I'll keep on playing because I think overtime knuckles will feel amazing, but early game, not so much.

[Ghostlight]

OP either you are missing a lot or you are playing on a very high difficulty. On default zombies go down easy with a few hits from a wooden club. So, lower the difficulty or stop missing. And Spears are crap btw.

[Katitof]

If we only had some kind of setting that would allow us to adjust how difficult and durable zombies are HMMMMMMMMMMM.

[JaxTeller718]

The biggest issue I have with low damage melee weapons (at least early game) is that you need such a tremendous amount of hits that you actually trigger their rage all the time.

 

I've started a pure Fortitude build yesterday and even though I got very lucky on day 1 to find Q3 Iron knuckles, with 3 points in Fortitude and 1 in brawler, they still only had 9 dmg and 19 power attack damage. The knuckle wraps I crafted first had 6 dmg and 12 power attack damage; my Q1 stone spear has a power attack damage of 39, with no points in perception/spears. When you can't properly trade blows yet because of a lack of armor/pain tolerance, I can't help but think I'd be better off playing the spear for now : better range, no repair cost, better damage.

 

I'll keep on playing because I think overtime knuckles will feel amazing, but early game, not so much.

 

I feel like what you wrote is a perfect example of why we need some kind of gamestaging for wilderness zombies. Beginning zombies could be a touch easier, then it can increase every 25 or so gamestages so you get that gradual difficulty without just throwing you zombies that you are expected to handle at both level 1 and level 25.

[beHypE]

I feel like what you wrote is a perfect example of why we need some kind of gamestaging for wilderness zombies. Beginning zombies could be a touch easier, then it can increase every 25 or so gamestages so you get that gradual difficulty without just throwing you zombies that you are expected to handle at both level 1 and level 25.

 

Mhhhh I don't really agree with that solution. I like the fact that early game is a struggle for even the most basic of zombies, and I believe the fact those zombies do not change over time is what actually gives that feeling of progression. If the zombies just scaled their HP with your damage, it would simply become a numbers game and there would be no feel of progression.

 

That being said I definitely think base damage values of certain weapons are badly balanced. The stone spear being a prime example of being way too powerful for a Day 1 no requirements weapon in comparison to the rest (expect maybe the stone sledgehammer).

[Roland]

I feel like what you wrote is a perfect example of why we need some kind of gamestaging for wilderness zombies. Beginning zombies could be a touch easier, then it can increase every 25 or so gamestages so you get that gradual difficulty without just throwing you zombies that you are expected to handle at both level 1 and level 25.

 

Goodbye to all sense of progression. Leveling enemies along with the player is not great for feeling like you are getting anywhere. It’s good that the same enemies that were tough to kill at level 1 are easy to kill at level 25.

 

The way TFP introduces new tougher enemies is better than leveling up the same enemies.

 

(This next part isn’t directed toward Jax)

I’m sorry but I have to call it like I see it. This is a classic example of someone selecting a difficulty level that is beyond what they find to be fun and then complaining about it instead of backing off on the difficulty.

 

Tanky enemies vs primitive weapons is supposed to be a challenging endeavor. The game is balanced for Nomad. At nomad the primitive weapons down the zombies pretty quickly. Higher than that and it is a battle with lots of opportunities for zombie rage to occur which makes close quarter fighting when trying to clear a POI more challenging. That’s why it’s a higher difficulty.

 

Play the game on the new default and zombies go down even quicker to primitive weaponry. The balance is fine. Stop selecting options that you don’t like.

[AtomicUs5000]

I have to say that I like it where it's at too. The first few days can be a real struggle, and it's great!

It is my favorite part of the game. I wish I felt the same throughout an entire playthrough, but it quickly switches from a struggle to survive to how fast can I refill my ammo supply.

 

If this ever changes, it probably would not mean that I stop playing entirely... mainly because I would have hope that it would get changed back, and there is always the modding possibility. If the changes did stick and lasted to gold release, and for some reason it just could not be modded back, I'm pretty sure it would be over for me.

[SickPuppy]

The biggest issue I have with low damage melee weapons (at least early game) is that you need such a tremendous amount of hits that you actually trigger their rage all the time.

 

I've started a pure Fortitude build yesterday and even though I got very lucky on day 1 to find Q3 Iron knuckles, with 3 points in Fortitude and 1 in brawler, they still only had 9 dmg and 19 power attack damage. The knuckle wraps I crafted first had 6 dmg and 12 power attack damage; my Q1 stone spear has a power attack damage of 39, with no points in perception/spears. When you can't properly trade blows yet because of a lack of armor/pain tolerance, I can't help but think I'd be better off playing the spear for now : better range, no repair cost, better damage.

 

I'll keep on playing because I think overtime knuckles will feel amazing, but early game, not so much.

 

I really like how weak we are early game now, it feels like true surviving a zombie apocalypse.

 

I find it helps to pick your fights, target the slower/weaker ones, turn the other way if you see that day 1 biker lol. Fortitude is ridiculously fun to play, has most of the survival perks, jab and hook combos all day, once leveled up I was keeping 3-4 zombies constantly on the ground on insane/nightmare. It doesn't hit as hard as the sledge but boy does it feel good.

[Ghostlight]

I would not want zombie HP scaled with our progression. That's anti-progression. I welcome the fact that increased GS starts to add the more dangerous zombies to the mix, but that's not enough....it needs to increase the number of zombies, and the frequency and size of wandering hordes. I've been to GS 500+ in A18 and the only difference I saw from day #1 was more Cops, Ferals, Wights and Irradiated etc and less normal zombies. I did not see increased zombie numbers in total; the world was still mostly empty and dull.

[Hollowprime]

Spears are garbage, club perks are weak ,knives are crop harvest gimmicks and axes are mediocre .

 

Sledge hammers are the only melee weapon worth taking exclusively for their crowd control ability. Everything else feels garbage. Zombies just tank too much hits and headshots deal laughable damage to zombies.

[Sakurambo]

I might be missing something here, don't the level 1 trader quests still send you a GREAT distance away to find something?

T1 and T2 buried supplies quest are usually within 500 meters, T1 have 1 recipe every time(very good if you plan on skipping master chef) and T2 usually a gun or a mod