Ac75 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Because I truly think it was the high point of this games production. That's wonderful if you think A17 and 18 are good. I think all A16 ever needed was the new GFX and the new POIs and I would have been happy forever. The utter proof of the game taking a very strange turn is how stamina works in A17 = It's very broken. The second example is cooked food giving you food poisoning in A18. Along with the absolute over-flood of loot in A18, even with loot at 25%, and the very-very messed up and inaccurate melee, I have no choice but to consider A16 the best version so far. Removing Learn by Doing was also an extremely huge mistake, IMO - so was taking away zombie loot. Very, very bad decisions IMO. I'm sure there will be a community for A16 for a while longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hek Harris Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Don't be just glad : be thankful. TFP is one of the rare devs that let you play in previous versions. And it's a good thing for people who stay stuck on a specific gameplay and don't like the new ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzHawkeye Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Yes, I'm also glad you can still play A16, and so can I again if I can ever tear myself away from A18. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalarro Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 A16 meta with a17 and 18 added content. Id sign that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphaniner Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 While I respect preferences for old versions, I fail to understand the unwillingness to use mods to tweak things to one's liking. All of the things you preferred about A16 can be implemented with mods. For most, mods already exist or existed for A17. Even learn by doing, probably the most complicated thing to implement, was part of the overhaul mod Darkness Falls (at least in its A17 incarnation). I'm also a fan of that mechanic, but not enough I've felt compelled to re-implement it standalone. I believe loot has already been confirmed for an overhaul, and I wouldn't be surprised if melee mechanics get further attention - though I don't have problems with it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synvastian Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I still think its funny people don't get the cooked food chance for sickness...I mean, you are living in filthy conditions, using tools to cook you may have used recently to kill a zombie (hunting knife on zombie and deer? cross contamination at the very least...ew) and not once have you washed your hands...ever any contamination in the water is in every veggie and animal in the world of 7dtd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipClaw Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I still think its funny people don't get the cooked food chance for sickness...I mean, you are living in filthy conditions, using tools to cook you may have used recently to kill a zombie (hunting knife on zombie and deer? cross contamination at the very least...ew) and not once have you washed your hands...ever any contamination in the water is in every veggie and animal in the world of 7dtd You can always come up with an explanation. Much more important is that it fits in the gameplay and that's where I see problems. Apparently, a lot of the players now only feed from the vending machine. I am no exception. In the past, the disadvantages of canned food led players to move from canned to homemade food as quickly as possible. Now they just stick to eating canned food and if they have vitamins they even eat old sandwiches. There is no real progression anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostlight Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 A16 meta with a17 and 18 added content. Id sign that. Absolutely agree. A16 was the pinnacle of the game as far as mechanics went. Gun part assembly, workbench combinations, surface boulder mining, wellness, learning by doing perks, convincing and fun zombie AI. LOVED IT. A16 with the graphics overhaul and new content of A17/18 would be the dream version for me too. I think a lot of old timers feel that. A16's mechanics were not just great in themselves but some of the best I have seen in my 40+ years of video gaming - especially the LBD perk system which felt organic and very very satisfying. [And made actual sense unlike this current abomination]. Such a shame they threw it all in bin and decided to go with such underwhelming generic and inferior mechanics. I still think its funny people don't get the cooked food chance for sickness...I mean, you are living in filthy conditions, using tools to cook you may have used recently to kill a zombie (hunting knife on zombie and deer? cross contamination at the very least...ew) and not once have you washed your hands...ever any contamination in the water is in every veggie and animal in the world of 7dtd Ever watch any bushcraft videos on youtube? Those folks cook their meat on flat stones they just hauled out the ground, and the food is often covered with dirt, moss, worms and dead things. Yet once it's been over the fire charring for 10 minutes, it's FINE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalen Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 You can always come up with an explanation. Much more important is that it fits in the gameplay and that's where I see problems. Apparently, a lot of the players now only feed from the vending machine. I am no exception. In the past, the disadvantages of canned food led players to move from canned to homemade food as quickly as possible. Now they just stick to eating canned food and if they have vitamins they even eat old sandwiches. There is no real progression anymore. If you stick to canned foods you have to keep eating.... which is possible but annoying. If you go with the higher tier cooked foods you only have to eat once a day. I usually buy 1 or 2 points of Iron Gut and so far, I've never had food poisoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeraal Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Ever since A17 came out, it has never been easier for me to stop playing for the evening(if I've bothered to start at all). Through A16, I would start playing almost as soon as I got home from work. A16 plus quests, poi's and vehicles? That sounds fun to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalarro Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Agree with Ghostlight. A16.4 was the perfect point to stop reworking and just start adding a ton of stuff. And fixing problems ofc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipClaw Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 If you stick to canned foods you have to keep eating.... which is possible but annoying. If you go with the higher tier cooked foods you only have to eat once a day. I usually buy 1 or 2 points of Iron Gut and so far, I've never had food poisoning. You'd be surprised how much canned food you find with questing and looting. You eat while you loot. Very rarely my food is at a point where the game tells me that I'm hungry. I have a minibike since day 4. That's why I don't need a lot of stamina anymore. Only when I work in the mine I have to eat more. I've watched other players and most of them almost exclusively eat canned food. Look at Kage 848, for example. He said it recently in a stream himself that he is living out of the vending machine. Iron Guts should have been combined with Master Chef. The higher the quality of the food, the lower the likelihood of food poisoning. Then the players would invest points in Master Chef. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalen Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 You'd be surprised how much canned food you find with questing and looting. You eat while you loot. Very rarely my food is at a point where the game tells me that I'm hungry. I have a minibike since day 4. That's why I don't need a lot of stamina anymore. Only when I work in the mine I have to eat more. I've watched other players and most of them almost exclusively eat canned food. Look at Kage 848, for example. He said it recently in a stream himself that he is living out of the vending machine. Iron Guts should have been combined with Master Chef. The higher the quality of the food, the lower the likelihood of food poisoning. Then the players would invest points in Master Chef. Oh, I agree that canned food is plentiful. I just don't want to spend my day eating. I like eating in the morning and not worrying about it again. I keep a stack of canned food on me in case I need to top off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maynard69 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Oh, I agree that canned food is plentiful. I just don't want to spend my day eating. I like eating in the morning and not worrying about it again. I keep a stack of canned food on me in case I need to top off. I mean really neither food fills you up more than the other. You can get just as full on the canned food by spending an extra 2 seconds spamming cans before heading out. Same as eating the cooked food. Your fullness still caps where it caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazywildfire Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 If you stick to canned foods you have to keep eating.... which is possible but annoying. If you go with the higher tier cooked foods you only have to eat once a day. I usually buy 1 or 2 points of Iron Gut and so far, I've never had food poisoning. I got around 100 hours in A18 right now and not once have I gotten any negative side effects from food or water. I only spent 1point in iron gut. I hardly eat can food unless I have to as well. Others on the server have gotten sick eating and drinking but rarely. Personally I don't think it is that bad of a mechanic but again just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazywildfire Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I mean really neither food fills you up more than the other. You can get just as full on the canned food by spending an extra 2 seconds spamming cans before heading out. Same as eating the cooked food. Your fullness still caps where it caps. Don't think that is what he was meaning. Some foods only fill you up a few points where other food fills you up a decent amount. Don't have the game up in front of me but example say I wanna get 20 points up on food i need to eat like idk 3 to 5 can food depending on what can food it is. Beacon and eggs only have to eat idk like 2 of them. That is what he was meaning not to top off to the max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalen Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I mean really neither food fills you up more than the other. You can get just as full on the canned food by spending an extra 2 seconds spamming cans before heading out. Same as eating the cooked food. Your fullness still caps where it caps. To each their own. Depending on the foods, you may need 5-10 cans of something to equal one higher tier cooked food. Gives me something to do with all the meat I get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipClaw Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I got around 100 hours in A18 right now and not once have I gotten any negative side effects from food or water. I only spent 1point in iron gut. I hardly eat can food unless I have to as well. Others on the server have gotten sick eating and drinking but rarely. Personally I don't think it is that bad of a mechanic but again just my opinion. Maybe I'm just over-cautious, but even if something has a low probability is a possible event after all. I've seen this with other players who have e.g. eaten bacon with eggs in the middle of a quest and suddenly they were down to 30 maximum stamina and wouldn't have survived a fight. Of course they didn't have any spare food with them. If I eat something I've made myself, it's only in the base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maynard69 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 To each their own. Depending on the foods, you may need 5-10 cans of something to equal one higher tier cooked food. Gives me something to do with all the meat I get. 10-15 max stamina for the cans, unless you are eating pet food. Better crafted foods are 38-58 max stamina. So its more like 4-6 unless you happen to have a buttload cat food. (which still takes like 2 seconds to eat, spamming it quick) The dog food can be used for crafting, better to save the ones that are ingredients. But mainly, you said you dont want to be eating all day, I was just pointing out that you arent getting more over-full or stopping yourself from eating more often, like you implied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2n1 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 A16 is still relevant to me, and it will continue until the next AlphaXX in the aggregate will not be better than A16. I study new releases but play for fun so far only in A16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auger Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Ever since A17 came out, it has never been easier for me to stop playing for the evening(if I've bothered to start at all). Through A16, I would start playing almost as soon as I got home from work. A16 plus quests, poi's and vehicles? That sounds fun to me. Funny cause I feel the same way about A18. I just hated A16 for it grindy, boring game play. I've played more hours into A18 now then all of A16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipClaw Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Funny cause I feel the same way about A18. I just hated A16 for it grindy, boring game play. I've played more hours into A18 now then all of A16 Whether you prefer A16 or A18 depends on your playing style. If you like to loot A18 is probably better than A16. If you like to build then A16 is better. I had the impression that the LBD system was designed for players who like to build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtrakicking Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 You can always come up with an explanation. Much more important is that it fits in the gameplay and that's where I see problems. Apparently, a lot of the players now only feed from the vending machine. I am no exception. Not only is this quite an exaggerated solution, but a completely unnecessary one as well. It's a 4% chance, people, it's not the end of the world... Well, it is, there's zombies, but you know what I mean. Currently day 19. Haven't had dysentery/food poisoning at all, not even once, and I didn't even try to avoid it at all. You can even use vitamins to completely nullify the possible food poisoning effect or tea for dysentery, but if you don't want to do that either then let me just tell you that most players are reporting to only have experienced food poisoning once, then never again in their entire playthroughs. Really comes to show how small the chance is. Even if you do get food poisoning, just eat more crappy food. The chance is so small, you'll most likely fix the damage of the food poisoning anyways. The matter of fact is, no players will ever try to get better food items if the basic ones are all you need for the rest of the game. The funny part is, you can still only feed from basic items if you want, too. The most abundant food in the world (canned food) doesn't even have any chances of food poisoning anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipClaw Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Not only is this quite an exaggerated solution, but a completely unnecessary one as well. It's a 4% chance, people, it's not the end of the world... Well, it is, there's zombies, but you know what I mean. Actually, it's the most convenient solution. The vending machines are refilled every day, the food is not expensive if you do quests anyway and it is safe. You can also find a lot of food in every POI. And as for necessity, the probability says nothing about whether it happens to you or not and how often it happens to you. 4% only says that it happens on average every 25 meals. But it can also happen twice in a row or after 100 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricorius Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I’m glad you can play A16 too! I very commonly eat cooked food, but with a strategy in mind. I allow myself to drop down to 85 or so (depending on what cooked food I have vs max stamina) then I eat a cooked food item. If I don’t get sick I top it off with canned food (you can easily control bumping up by small increments with no chance of accidentally loosing the cooked food you just ate). On the rare occasion I get sick, I didn’t lose much (one item of cooked food max). But like others have said getting sick is still pretty rare. Though I do invest in iron gut (the degree I invest depends on which tree is primary for the given play through). Edit: I also expect canned food to be nerfed a bit in the incoming loot balancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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