Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[madmole]

Woah.

 

I've heard that's the secret 8th seal, I wouldn't attempt that...

 

Let's just be happy the two of us have agreed on three things this week and not temp fate.

 

(Modders role, new skill point gate ideas, and that you're not suddenly going to take away 2500 hours of content to target the 30 hour players).

 

...I've been laughing at this whole thing because the thousand hour players arguing with you are the proof against their own argument.

Lol Jax will come around. Yes lol we're not removing anything except maybe the old perk books that were kind of temp filler content that only last half an hour or whatever.

[madmole]

You can increase the % of players who play more than 2 hrs but you can't get rid of SOME people not playing more than 2 hrs. Even if you literally made THE best survival game in the world, not to be topped by any game in the past, present, or future, there will STILL be people who shelve it after 2 hrs because survival games aren't their cup of tea, they bought it and forgot about it, or some other reason. I think that's the point he was trying to make.

 

I KNOW though, that if we could get people past the first couple of hours there would be more 500+ hour guys out there. I tried Ark and thought it was pretty stupid, punching dinos and waiting literally 3 hours for it to wake up because I didn't have some ungodly amount of tranquilizers. Finally I played some coop with my kid and learned there were options to make it better (faster dino tames, more xp, etc) and got hooked on it, then played with friends hosting a server with a few mods and racked up like 1350 hours I think. My brother who never played it again like I did still thinks it sucks for the same reasons I did.

 

So if you can get past some klunky things a game you kind of like the premise of (you wouldn't buy otherwise) but didn't like the implementation or game play can become a great game. So we need to remove as many addiction blockers as possible so people can discover what a great game it is.

[madmole]

Dead Island 1 and Riptide...But that was more of a skill tree/borderlands style perk system with 4 different playable characters...

 

That game was pretty damn fun , loved using Sam B and 2 handed hammer smashing everything...would play online occasionally

and always had people laughing how I would just charge in and smash stuff...Who do you voodoo bitch!

 

I probably should have included open world... I only play open world games. I bought dead island and didn't like being told what to do and never made it out of the hotel. Oblivion and GTA ruined me lol I just love freedom and sandbox ability in a game.

[JaxTeller718]

Finally Guppy and I can agree to agree! This is truely an amazing day. Now I'm just waiting for Jax to see the light in what I said.

 

Ok let's try this.

 

As a creator who would never put myself in your circle (because you are way more talented than I) I respect your opinion on what you want for the game you created. I always have. Doesn't mean I won't push a little at times for the chance to see some stuff I like too. Usually a pipe dream with other companies, with you and TFP you are very consumer centric and take a lot of time to interact with us and I respect the hell out of it.

 

I also appreciate the modding capabilities. Its my passion now, and you can say with certainty you have inspired a generation of people who never even thought about modding. Look at all the names here who never opened an XMl now doing asset work, scripting etc. That's you big man. That's YOUR Arnold inspiration that you leave behind to US.

 

Do i agree that i want this game to ever focus on casuals etc? No. But i recognize its my opinion. And I will never hate you or this game to allow that to prevent me from enjoying it. You have given us the tools to take a massively entertaining game and add and twist it to our desires. For that I will eternally be grateful. Because I plan on being here with this community and game for years to come. And Im even dabbling in to the possibility of creating a small game to challenge myself so who knows where that will go.

 

I have a feeling we are a lot alike. I am constantly talking to my team about what the future is, what we can add and how big we can get and they often have to bring me down to reality and remind me we don't have 5 years to release the next update to my mod. I believe you to be similar. You're seeking the next challenge. You crushed this one. We are both obviously passionate. And we LOVE to stir the pot

 

I may criticize but in the end its In Pimps We Trust. Even a master chef has customers who use salt or ketchup every now and then. Doesn't mean they dont enjoy the meal, just means preference in flavors are a bit different.

 

So go Gold. And I promise as my way of showing thanks I will do my damndest to continue hyping and supporting this one way after the next project is underway. It is the least I can offer back as a way of saying thank you for all the memories and experiences you have given to me.

 

 

Edit - Wanted to add that i think I understand the 20 hour thing now. Its like an appetizer. Give them a great experience in the first 20 hours, and the ones who truly love it will turn that 20 into 1000.

[madmole]

You see I fit into the context of playing the game a lot but love starting again a lot...

 

So I am personally glad that things are not to far ahead blocked behind level 345 say... ><

 

Yeah after the first few go arounds with fallout and skyrim I tend to start over a lot. The beginning is the best part for some reason.

[Jackelmyer]

So in your opinion, game developers are 100% powerless when it comes to making people play their game for more than 2 hours? Man, I wonder how the successful games pull it off. It can't just be sheer luck, can it?

 

Don't know exactly what's wrong with you but that's not at all what I said.

[madmole]

Ok let's try this.

 

As a creator who would never put myself in your circle (because you are way more talented than I) I respect your opinion on what you want for the game you created. I always have. Doesn't mean I won't push a little at times for the chance to see some stuff I like too. Usually a pipe dream with other companies, with you and TFP you are very consumer centric and take a lot of time to interact with us and I respect the hell out of it.

 

I also appreciate the modding capabilities. Its my passion now, and you can say with certainty you have inspired a generation of people who never even thought about modding. Look at all the names here who never opened an XMl now doing asset work, scripting etc. That's you big man. That's YOUR Arnold inspiration that you leave behind to US.

 

Do i agree that i want this game to ever focus on casuals etc? No. But i recognize its my opinion. And I will never hate you or this game to allow that to prevent me from enjoying it. You have given us the tools to take a massively entertaining game and add and twist it to our desires. For that I will eternally be grateful. Because I plan on being here with this community and game for years to come. And Im even dabbling in to the possibility of creating a small game to challenge myself so who knows where that will go.

 

I have a feeling we are a lot alike. I am constantly talking to my team about what the future is, what we can add and how big we can get and they often have to bring me down to reality and remind me we don't have 5 years to release the next update to my mod. I believe you to be similar. You're seeking the next challenge. You crushed this one. We are both obviously passionate. And we LOVE to stir the pot

 

I may criticize but in the end its In Pimps We Trust. Even a master chef has customers who use salt or ketchup every now and then. Doesn't mean they dont enjoy the meal, just means preference in flavors are a bit different.

 

So go Gold. And I promise as my way of showing thanks I will do my damndest to continue hyping and supporting this one way after the next project is underway. It is the least I can offer back as a way of saying thank you for all the memories and experiences you have given to me.

 

 

Edit - Wanted to add that i think I understand the 20 hour thing now. Its like an appetizer. Give them a great experience in the first 20 hours, and the ones who truly love it will turn that 20 into 1000.

Thanks Jax. Glad I can inspire people. I can say that everyone at TFP is all for a steam workshop as soon as possible after we go gold, because mods extend the life of games and can influence developers. I made beards, followers, romance and vampires for Oblivion, and they got massive downloads and Bethesda added all three of those things to Skyrim. Coincidence? I don't think so.

 

My point is modding is probably the best way to influence a developer. I'm looking forward to making that easier for modders so we can really see a lot more content.

[Jackelmyer]

Exactly. The guys with 5000 hours are screaming "more content" the new players are saying one or more of the following" Bad graphics, bad framerate, stutters, too hard" etc. We're doing our best to make everyone happy but we've been told over and over again if we can just polish up what we have its a hell of a game already "if you can get past the bugs, performance, etc". That shouldn't even be a thing. So we're focusing on bringing up the quality of the game. Sure we're adding mid and late game content, but we need to focus on all the issues instead of add tons of new stuff. Tons of new stuff is getting added now though, but meanwhile we're scrutinizing everything and making it better if we can.

 

Just saying, I'm only asking for more settings/options really. Content wise, I think I've asked commercial deco stuff get added but that's just wishful thinking. I get that.

 

The settings/options adds I think are right up the alley of what you're looking to do.

 

Being able to adjust more dramatically and specifically game stage progression.

Being able to adjust more dramatically and specifically zombie health.

Being able to turn on/off digging.

Being able to turn on/off radiated zombies or ferals.

 

I think this goes right along with what you've stated the advice has been in helping new players and gives more replayability with the exact content you already have.

 

Player starts out the game... After a week or two, hits some ferals. Wtf? Okay. Turn them off (wait, what's Rads?, Oh turn that off too).

 

New player happily digging a hole and cleverly thinks to plug the entrance so he/she can dig in more peace and safety, zombie digs down. Wtf? Digging zombies? Nope!

 

 

Some people aren't going to understand the feature till it scares or kills them. And they may just not like that feature. Not saying everything needs this. But some stuff, yeah.

 

 

Personally, Ferals and Rad zombies are something I think a lot of players would like to ease into. Getting used to the whole crazy night running zombies can be challenging for some enough as it is.

 

Not to mention the people who would absolutely LOVE simply a much much more take 7 days to die. Which, I think has an enormous audience too.

 

That's all. I hear what you're saying. Just think options are right in line with it.

[Demonoid74]

I probably should have included open world... I only play open world games. I bought dead island and didn't like being told what to do and never made it out of the hotel. Oblivion and GTA ruined me lol I just love freedom and sandbox ability in a game.

 

See its the same thing stated here by you and statistically...your first little bit of play time made you not like it! But Dead Island IS an open world game , once you get past the hotel and do the first little bit of story mission down on the beach...you just have to play it longer .

 

Once you got past that , driving around the island , doing what you wanted...going back and doing the story missions when you felt like it...the game was pretty fun...

 

 

I myself did what you and your brother did with ARK , played it for like 2 hours...and will never touch that stupid #$#^$%$ again! lol

 

Just like in Skyrim...that whole first part is slogging , slow and annoying! One you get out...its all good!

[Tin]

Thanks Jax. Glad I can inspire people. I can say that everyone at TFP is all for a steam workshop as soon as possible after we go gold, because mods extend the life of games and can influence developers. I made beards, followers, romance and vampires for Oblivion, and they got massive downloads and Bethesda added all three of those things to Skyrim. Coincidence? I don't think so.

 

My point is modding is probably the best way to influence a developer. I'm looking forward to making that easier for modders so we can really see a lot more content.

 

Can you make it easier to alter/add/modify the atlas, without needing to do the current voodoo we need to?

[Odetta]

We need a cannibal book so we can eat zombies, "the hunter becomes the hunted"

 

(in Bubba's voice)

Zombie gumbo

Zombie and potato

Zombie stew

Zombie a la mode

Zombie steak

Zombie zombie

 

That's... That's about it.

[Jackelmyer]

Can you make it easier to alter/add/modify the atlas, without needing to do the current voodoo we need to?

 

I kinda hope modders get an Alpha at the end of everything all dedicated to them and small clean up of other features and optimizations.

[Tin]

I kinda hope modders get an Alpha at the end of everything all dedicated to them and small clean up of other features and optimizations.

 

ehh they are doing fine, but it won't stop me from asking for more

I'm just being lazy..

[Drithyl]

Don't know exactly what's wrong with you but that's not at all what I said.

 

There's nothing wrong. I was simply surprised that someone could disagree with the idea that the more engaging and well-made a game is, the more it catches the player's attention. Sure some people just don't like that genre and got it for cheap or free, but the average hours spent on the game per player will still go up as those who do like it will do it for longer. And even those who aren't fond of the type of gameplay might get lured in if it's good enough.

[Jackelmyer]

There's nothing wrong. I was simply surprised that someone could disagree with the idea that the more engaging and well-made a game is, the more it catches the player's attention. Sure some people just don't like that genre and got it for cheap or free, but the average hours spent on the game per player will still go up as those who do like it will do it for longer. And even those who aren't fond of the type of gameplay might get lured in if it's good enough.

 

People who play 2 hours or less are common and not to be counted in statistics as they're simply window shoppers.

 

Whatever else you're talking about, I have no idea.

[Drithyl]

People who play 2 hours or less are common and not to be counted in statistics as they're simply window shoppers.

 

Whatever else you're talking about, I have no idea.

 

I fundamentally disagree that window shoppers cannot be counted in those statistics. Window shoppers go inside a shop if the displays look good, the products are enticing, the shop itself looks/smells/sounds nice, etc. Same case with a game. Window shoppers that buy a game for cheap or get it for free still have the potential to become regular players if the game is engaging and provides a smooth experience from the beginning. For example, I bought Undertale knowing that it wasn't really my kind of game, but I knew it was very well rated and people were talking a lot about it. When I got around to playing it, the way it presented the story piqued my interest and kept me playing until I got to some of the good parts of the game (one of the big things with it being the soundtrack).

[Can'tadian]

We have no planned pay for DLCs yet.

 

Hey, I'm just saying, after continually adding content to the game for 6 years, If you guys did put out $5 dlc's after gold has been pushed? I would not judge what so ever. Also I would by every single one even if you came out with 20 of 'em lol.

 

IMHO you guys have gone far beyond what you promised in your kickstarter so if anyone deserves to make a few bucks for the extra content. It's TFP. Hope you guys will always have a soft spot for this game the way Me and my girl do!

[madmole]

Can you make it easier to alter/add/modify the atlas, without needing to do the current voodoo we need to?

 

There is no atlas for blocks any more, just a texture array. I'm sure we'll make it easy to add your own or add new textures to it at some point.

[Tin]

There is no atlas for blocks any more, just a texture array. I'm sure we'll make it easy to add your own or add new textures to it at some point.

 

Yeah that! I'm not a texture guru, but I now some people who are. So this should make them happy to read. Thanks!

[Jackelmyer]

I fundamentally disagree that window shoppers cannot be counted in those statistics. Window shoppers go inside a shop if the displays look good, the products are enticing, the shop itself looks/smells/sounds nice, etc. Same case with a game. Window shoppers that buy a game for cheap or get it for free still have the potential to become regular players if the game is engaging and provides a smooth experience from the beginning. For example, I bought Undertale knowing that it wasn't really my kind of game, but I knew it was very well rated and people were talking a lot about it. When I got around to playing it, the way it presented the story piqued my interest and kept me playing until I got to some of the good parts of the game (one of the big things with it being the soundtrack).

 

Sounds like you played more than a few hours. So... You weren't a window shopper.

 

Sorry dude. Don't really feel like explaining how to read meaningful data out of numbers.

 

Agree to disagree.

[Drithyl]

Sounds like you played more than a few hours. So... You weren't a window shopper.

 

Sorry dude. Don't really feel like explaining how to read meaningful data out of numbers.

 

Agree to disagree.

 

I was a window shopper, as you call it, first, then I turned into a player, because the game was well set up.

 

Up to you.

[Guppycur]

Sounds like you played more than a few hours. So... You weren't a window shopper.

 

Sorry dude. Don't really feel like explaining how to read meaningful data out of numbers.

 

Agree to disagree.

 

By that same logic you also don't have a say. One could easily say as an outlier of those stats, you are the anomaly who should not be taken into consideration.

 

Statistics work both ways, especially the interpretations.

 

Not saying you're wrong or right; no clue...

[BioFringe]

There are no zombie games with perks or attributes are there?

 

How to Survive 2 has a very similar system to what you have now in a17.

 

RE: New Book Art...Love It!

 

I made a suggestion a long time ago that you could make old-time posters like that and put them up around the world where they would make sense. Obviously only if you had the extra time but I personally would love to see more of your artwork in the world as art itself. You'd have to make them look more worn out than the books since they would have been on walls exposed to the elements for years post-apoc and all but they sure would add a very nice personal touch to the world outside of the normal game world assets that one would expect. Getting each artist to come up with 2-3 shouldn't be all that much work and the visual payoff would be huge IMO of course. This would give modders a more personal way to showcase some of their artwork as well.

 

Peace

[Odetta]

I wonder if Madmole is creating all the arts for the books, 100+ books, that's a lot of arts. At least 20 arts after taking into account volumes.

[archergod]

I don't want to sound negative, but I like Book system that is one new, one new type of zombie, couple of new weapon and RWG seems the only thing for A18 as of now. Do you have any list which are game changing or impact game like books. It seems so little for naming A18. But seems more of A17.xx something .. Not that I am complaining, just been curious what you guys plan to work for a18.