Game feels like its punishing me for levelling up

[new7daylive]

Another solution for endless numbers of green zombies might be the appearance of significantly more normal zombies moving faster in some cases? Not sure what this would do to performance, but bullet sponge greens in multiples in every poi makes scavenging a very expensive affair (if you are more comfortable with a gun of some sort). im at gamestage 300 and while i love the game, im avoiding many pois because of the green menace.

 

Just seems over-done

[RipClaw]

Also stop rushing to gain levels, take your time, it's easier that way.

 

The only way to stop rushing through the levels would be stop playing the game.

You get XP for everything. Even if you are not killing zombies you get XP for mining, wrenching stuff and even upgrading blocks or selling stuff to the trader.

 

Of course you could stop going to PIOs and just work at your base and farm resources instead, but that might be too boring for some.

 

The fundamental problem is transition. Actually there should be an extended phase in which one gets ferale zombies but no radioactive zombies yet and then the number of radioactive zombies slowly increases.

At the moment it's more like first the normal walking zombies are in the POIs and then suddenly the radioactive zombies appear without any real transition phase.

[lord_ahriman]

That's why I couldn't care less about houses and nerd pole big POI's so if loot is there I can deal with zombies from distance and done. I'm not wasting hundreds of bullets for a meh loot, specially now (I'm lvl 187, day 90).

 

Looting POI's isn't rewarding mid/late game, so I think you shouldn't get only better items, but a lot more ammo. I'd say easily 150 7.62mm + 150 9mm rounds and 200 - 250 7.62mm + 200 ~ 250 9mm if top tier POI. If it's guaranteed I get at least my bullets back, POI's would be much more interesting.

[Foxley]

That is one of the reasons why I kill most zombies with melee weapon (just one of many, cutting their heads off is fun ) ... you just need first aid bandages, weapon and fast legs , neither of those is a problem. I reserve ammo for bloodmoon (usualy I use around 2500-3000 AK rounds) and/or when someone in my party (or me) is in trouble, but that is just my playstyle, it is the way I like it.

 

I agree with you, there should be more ammo in the game, but I would not want to see to much of it, it would become to easy. I think this would be hard to balance.

 

About those rads: Maybe adding a new option in the game could be cool, to change

gameStage = ( playerLevel + daysSurvived ) * gameDifficultyMultiplier

into

gameStage = ( playerLevel + daysSurvived ) * gameDifficultyMultiplier * X

where X would be something you could set on server/SP game. So you could have radiated zombies rly late game, or rly soon. I also think that this is something that would not be hard to do.

[xXBadDreamXx]

I'm not understanding this concept of having any game punish you for any reason. People keep saying the game is punishing for X. Others respond that its not but instead punishing you for trying to grind too fast? People play these games to level up and get better at things. This entire concept of punishing is wrong and should not be accepted as a functioning game mechanic because it just isn't. This is a game balance issue most likely caused by far too many zombies in a POI in the first place AND far too many irradiated zombies spawning according to gamestage. If people can't leave their base past a certain stage or even feel this way at all then there's some kind of problem that needs to be addressed. Either apply quick easy bandaid by vastly increasing ammo drops OR finally admit that POI's have too many zombies in them and it doesn't make the game more fun and causes many extra problems later on.

[Greymantle]

Lower the difficulty problem solved.

[LuckyStar]

Lower the difficulty problem solved.

 

 

Lol kidding aside.

 

People who are playing on Default difficulty are having troubles.

 

That's on TFP not the players.

 

So .... either default needs to be lowered or they need to adjust the settings.

[Kirtonos]

I'm just gonna ask a few questions about gamestage calculation before giving my 2 coppers worth:

 

1) Is it strictly level or does it account for perks purchased?

 

2) I know death will reduce gamestage level, does anything else effect it either positively or negatively?

 

3) What sort of calculation is done based on multi-player if any?

[Cirion]

Gamestage is primarily defined in my experience from player level, difficulty, and # zombies killed

 

Death doesn't really have much of an impact on gamestage

 

In MP it does some kind of average of all players. I think the raw math is shown in the gamestages.xml file if you want to learn all the nitty gritty math

[sadpickle]

I think the problem here is you are expected to put some points into combat skills; but because the player starts so badly handicapped and must spend tons of points not only in INT (to unlock crafts) but also STR (to carry more/mine with some efficiency) that by the time you get those where they need to be, your gamestage is heavily advanced and you are only maybe beginning to spec out firearm/survival skills. I can easily get to level 50 spending points in nothing but STR/INT and I still can't unlock everything I want fast enough.

 

At a bare minimum, voxels like concrete shouldn't require points to gain access to. Anyone with mix, a wheelbarrow, a shovel and some lumber can make concrete forms. That's just barely scratching the surface of the problem, but right now the game demands you dump points into INT so you can make better blocks, and points into STR so you can get raw materials faster. I've put about 30-40 hours into this 17A and I never got around to putting points into PER. At times I forgot that PER was even a thing.

[Cirion]

I think the problem here is you are expected to put some points into combat skills; but because the player starts so badly handicapped and must spend tons of points not only in INT (to unlock crafts) but also STR (to carry more/mine with some efficiency) that by the time you get those where they need to be, your gamestage is heavily advanced and you are only maybe beginning to spec out firearm/survival skills. I can easily get to level 50 spending points in nothing but STR/INT and I still can't unlock everything I want fast enough.

 

At a bare minimum, voxels like concrete shouldn't require points to gain access to. Anyone with mix, a wheelbarrow, a shovel and some lumber can make concrete forms. That's just barely scratching the surface of the problem, but right now the game demands you dump points into INT so you can make better blocks, and points into STR so you can get raw materials faster. I've put about 30-40 hours into this 17A and I never got around to putting points into PER. At times I forgot that PER was even a thing.

 

Preach it man. This right here is the main problem with the current system as it is IMHO.

 

In A16, it was a non issue. If you wanted to get better at mining? Just mine. Now, you have to get mining 69er, and the only way to get that is to spend points on strength, and points are at a premium. Mining is almost the most important thing you need to do in this game, making mining 69er NOT OPTIONAL, but MANDATORY, thus pointing points in STR is literally required. Well between that and INT which is also mandatory to function in this game (especially single player) you're left with no HP, armor resistance, or ranged weapon damage, nor stealth. However, you're at a high gamestage, which leaves you facing green zombies with little to no points in HP, damage resistance, stealth, or ranged weapon damage.

 

I suppose the consolation prize is that you have melee weapon damage, and can use a sledgehammer. HOWEVER, again - you have no points in stealth, so you maybe will get one or two kills before you wake everybody up. And good luck against high end zombies with no HP especially on hard difficulties. Green Cops can do 100+hp damage a hit easily with no armor. And did I mention you have no HP or armor? So, one hit = RIP

 

I mean let's think about it from another angle.

 

The max level is 300, right? SO logically, you should start maaaybe getting end-game content in the 200's, right? WRONG. You easily start getting green zombies regularly long before even level 100. At level 100 you only have enough skill points to have about 1/3 of the skills you need.

 

Does this make sense to anyone else?

 

We're not debating whether or not you "can" win with this setup (Obviously you can), but this does not change the fact there is an imbalance here. I should not be getting end-game zombies until I'm level 200+. Full stop IMO.

[Royal Deluxe]

My current skills are 7,7,5,5,10

This moment i skill Strenght, next i will skill Defense more. And then i still have many perks i want like gardening. So no more skillpoints for the next ?80? level in perception. And the Leveling at 129 is allready slower.

 

I have nearly 1000 Hours Death is Death gameplay in A17 and it is not so that i have no clue or i cant succeed.

All i say is that the gameplay with armys of Green Bulletsponges in all Dungeon pois destroys the gamefun for me and force me to spend 3 time so much time for harvesting and mining to get ammo than clearing the pois

[RipClaw]

I'm just gonna ask a few questions about gamestage calculation before giving my 2 coppers worth:

 

1) Is it strictly level or does it account for perks purchased?

 

The gamestage is composed of the number of days played, the level and the degree of difficulty.

 

2) I know death will reduce gamestage level, does anything else effect it either positively or negatively?

 

The level of difficulty is a big factor in gamestage. Death itself reduces gamestage only slightly. For every death, two days of playing time are subtracted.

 

The formula for the calculation can be found in gamestages.xml:

 

gameStage = ( playerLevel + daysSurvived ) * gameDifficultyMultiplier

 

daysSurvived should correctly be called daysPlayed because the number is not set to 0 at death but only 2 days are subtracted as described before.

 

gameDifficultyMultiplier is based on the difficulty level.

For example, Nomad is 1.5 and Insane 2.5.

 

3) What sort of calculation is done based on multi-player if any?

 

This is also explained in the gamestages.xml but roughly speaking the 5 highest single gamestages in a group are added together and a group gamestage is calculated.

[Kresdja]

If you're using guns do clear POIs, you're doing it wrong. Waking up everything at once is bad. Using a silencer reduces your damage, this is also bad. Guns should be your "oh ♥♥♥♥" weapon. I'm around level 150 and only use guns for horde night. All of my POI clearing is done with a sledgehammer and compound bow /w steel arrows and lots of sneak attacks.

[Cirion]

I think that silencer on a pistol or marksman rifle should at least be one way to use guns effectively, but its not.

 

What is the point of the silence. Serious question?

 

Right now it is pointless, because it still wakes zombies up nearby.

[Jackelmyer]

What day was it? I’m wondering how quickly you are leveling up. If you level faster than it takes you to collect good gear then you could get in trouble.

 

I think that's part of the challenge.

 

Some people will collect the gear way before they can make it. Some people won't really ever go hunt down that gear or buy it, rather working towards the point they can craft it themselves. I'm more the latter.

 

I get kind of annoyed getting a steel pickaxe and struggling to find the steel to loot or buy just so I can keep it functional. Same for any gear that requires steel.

[Jackelmyer]

When did deaths stop being a notable impact on game stage? That was something I swear I saw preached for a while and was supposed to be part of how the game kept from outpacing a player.

[Greymantle]

 

Lol kidding aside.

 

People who are playing on Default difficulty are having troubles.

 

That's on TFP not the players.

 

So .... either default needs to be lowered or they need to adjust the settings.

 

Why? There is know why they can balance default to work for all skill levels. I have a friend that can only play on the easiest setting should they try to balance it around her?

[AtomicUs5000]

I find it hysterical that so many people complained that there wasn't enough xp for doing other things besides killing zombies... and now that we have it, there are complaints like these.

Gotta be careful of what you wish for around here! haha

[Cirion]

I find it hysterical that so many people complained that there wasn't enough xp for doing other things besides killing zombies... and now that we have it, there are complaints like these.

Gotta be careful of what you wish for around here! haha

 

No, the fact is that green zombies appear way faster in A17 than they did in A16 on a per level basis. This is the source of complaints.

 

Also, the fact that green zombies appear even before level 100, which is only 1/3 of the way to max level (300) and green zombies should be end-game creatures not low-mid to mid-game creatures.

[AtomicUs5000]

No, the fact is that green zombies appear way faster in A17 than they did in A16 on a per level basis. This is the source of complaints.

 

Also, the fact that green zombies appear even before level 100, which is only 1/3 of the way to max level (300) and green zombies should be end-game creatures not low-mid to mid-game creatures.

 

No, what I said is fact is well.

How they would decide what xp would influence in the game was never thought about in those complaints.

[Royal Deluxe]

No, what I said is fact is well.

How they would decide what xp would influence in the game was never thought about in those complaints.

 

Its allways nice if others know what people considered and what not.

let me ask the other way, how many ask now for reducing the XP to solve the green army issue ?

No one ?!

 

Sure no one, because the issue is NOT that you level too fast. The issue is the existence of Green armys in (normal) pois at all.

 

It simply doesnt work as intended.

Or was the intention to make player avoid pois after they reached a decent level ?

I guess not

[RestInPieces]

I find it hysterical that so many people complained that there wasn't enough xp for doing other things besides killing zombies... and now that we have it, there are complaints like these.

Gotta be careful of what you wish for around here! haha

 

Completely irrelevant.

 

Rigid, overtuned level scaling is the problem (combined with POI spawning nonsense). Also the way enemies scale, becoming green cartoony bullet sponges.

[fishjie]

holy crap this thread exploded. yesterday i was really frustrated when i made this new thread and posted my rant and it was cathartic. update - so i stubbornly (stupidly) tried to do quests again because i didn't like that i had wasted so many skill points into daring adventurer. i died again lol.

 

however i had an epiphany. as i went to collect my body, because i had placed my bed so far away, i had a long walk. i looted bird nests along the way. i almost had gained half a level at that point, because it appears looting XP scales with your level. so my game plan - because i can't "git gud" is simply - hide in base at night and mine - the XP is pretty damn good with steel tools. simultaneously craft iron armor or whatever. my defense set up is a pit trap as mentioned. in a previous horde night zombies tunneled down into my base. i used that against them by then converting their tunnel into a cobblestone shaft, and putting spikes at bottom with concrete pillars all around. its held so far on horde night, but sometimes they'll still dig an alternative route. but its mostly ish safe to mine at night for me. during day, sell iron armor for mad XP and money, then walk around collecting bird nests and trash bags. i find that at my level (85 ish now with gamestage 250 or so) there aren't irradiated or ferals in the wilderness so its pretty risk free. my motorcyle allows a quick getaway if necssary.

 

NOTE i dont really want to play this way, however at default difficulty im not good enough to take on irradiated. my build has been mostly INT because even though i play online with my friends, i like to do my own thing, and craft my own stuff without reliance on others. so my combat and survivability isn't that good. once i have enough skill points in fortitude, strength and etc, then ill explore the POI.

 

Again, I LOVE the quests, I LOVE the new POIs, and the new quest system is pretty cool (and its easy to see it can be extended in future for cooler and more varied quests), just please please please tone down game stage. i hate irradiated, they are not fun. please make them only appear in POIs like the abandoned nuclear silo - where you know its a tough fight - or at the top of skyscrapers (speaking of which, i haven't found any in RWG). please nerf irradiated. feel free to make them even tougher and plentiful in harder difficulties. i had no problem with default difficulty in A15 and A16, but A17 its gotten to the point i'm literally collecting feathers from bird nests to level up lol. I want to explore the POIs, they are awesome as is the new motorcycle, but at this rate it makes more sense for me to start a new game and keep my level low on purpose so i can see all the cool new stuff.

[Ranzera]

I haven't seen game stage increase as a function of days played in A17. Is that a hidden effect on game stage? On the Nomad server I played on, it was a flat [Game Stage = level * 3]. You could look at every player logged in on the stats board and every single one of them whether 0 deaths or 53 would have [Game Stage = level * 3].

 

I played on a Survivalist server and a Warrior server as well and the game stage increased at a faster pace than that. The increments were less consistent though, sometimes 3 for a level and sometimes 4 for a level.

 

The cadence of leveling seems to suggest that TFP consider level 100 to be end game because that's when the level caps end and everything feels maxed out difficulty wise. Everything after that is kinda "Veteran Levels" in feeling. By then you've already unlocked everything that will help you survive.

 

I think it'd make more sense if Radiated Zeds started appearing around game stage 200 (but rarely) and scaling from there. That said, I think the number of radiate per volume should be capped somewhere, let the rest be feral if need be. It would reduce the bullet spongeness of POIs.