New Update Food/Drink issue?

[LuckyStar]

...you need to put a point into the slow food and water perks. Half your starting points.

 

Yep!

 

100% agree with that.

[Ghostlight]

Two things I learned from this update.

 

1) Don't run until you have a lot of food and water. So, all Day 1 you walk to the trader and hope he has ether a cooking pot or a forge to make a cooking pot. Use "hip fire" with a bow as it uses the least amount of stamina. I have NO idea how many stone arrows I've made.

 

2) This one people will not like, but you need to put a point into the slow food and water perks. Half your starting points.

 

I don't like either. Having to get somewhere far off was painful before this, and that was just when you had to stop running now and again to let your stamina rebuild. Now you basically cannot run anywhere AT ALL unless you have a stockpile of food available. Once more the game got just a little bit more tedious.

[Kage848]

Devs have already admitted they pushed it too far. Internal build already has it rebalanced between what it was before and what is in 231.

 

ninja'd!!!

 

This is great news. Just woke up but was winding is 233 gonna need a restart?

[Kage848]

Iron reinforced clubs fetch a "decent" price if they are good quality.

Steel tools are good for sale too, if you can make steel.

Meat costs about 2 dukes a piece from vending machines.

 

Didnt know meat was so cheap? But that's still 1 Duke per hunger, charred meat. Do they sell eggs?

 

Also noticed the iron clubs were nice to sell. Good call. Too bad I can only sell 3.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Yep!

 

100% agree with that.

 

Nope. Perk should be helpful, not nessisary.

[BloodDeacon]

1) Food consumption rate should definitely be linked to difficulty, IMO. Something like

1.2 * the current E rate for insane

0.8 * the current E rate for survivor

0.5 * the current E rate for warrior

and so on.

 

Maybe in addition to the general combat difficulty setting that impacts damage taken/given, there should be a general survival difficulty setting that would incorporate existing options and impact details like the above, penalty for dying, buying/selling rates etc.

 

2) I also wouldn't mind seeing water consumption and food be consumed at drastically different rates according to heavy stamina usage as someone else has already hinted in this thread. Heavy exertion, particularly in warm weather, should reduce water far more quickly than food.

 

The second suggestion isn't necessarily something that needs to be implemented immediately. Just something to think about in the long run.

[Mephistopheles]

Food/Water/Stamina is STILL way too savage in b233. If this is the "fix" and I'm still at 50% stamina at 10am on Day 1 after just chopping down one tree and one boulder and running for 500m without finding any food, then I'm done for a while or going back to a16

[Gazz]

2) I also wouldn't mind seeing water consumption and food be consumed at drastically different rates according to heavy stamina usage as someone else has already hinted in this thread. Heavy exertion, particularly in warm weather, should reduce water far more quickly than food.

 

The second suggestion isn't necessarily something that needs to be implemented immediately. Just something to think about in the long run.

It's been working like that for the last month at least.

[Gazz]

Food/Water/Stamina is STILL way too savage in b233. If this is the "fix" and I'm still at 50% stamina at 10am on Day 1 after just chopping down one tree and one boulder and running for 500m without finding any food, then I'm done for a while or going back to a16

This is odd. I tried that and after these activities (plus some zombie killing on the way) I'm at 89 food and 98 water.

I didn't even buy any perks to help with that, which would have been the smart way.

[Guppycur]

You might have started the day overfilled or over hydrated not known it.

[Aerial]

You might have started the day overfilled or over hydrated not known it.

 

Would be really nice if the UI showed us this

[icehot]

honestly since b233 food and drink is pretty well balanced imho, it's going down at a rate that's manageable, but you also definitely need to keep hydrated and well fed too - I think the current balance is perfect.

[Gazz]

You might have started the day overfilled or over hydrated not known it.

 

Me? I would know.

[Mephistopheles]

Me? I would know.

 

In regards to your attempt to repro, my experience was a fresh start, Day 1 0700 start - 1000 end. Snow biome, overburdened, as well as some other variables that no doubt differ from what you experienced. I've seen no documentation about weather, temperature, burdened state, or many other factors that may gimp food/water/stamina, but I have no doubt that it was gimped even harder using those other variables. Oh, and I actually did spend my first few points on extra bag space and 10% decreased food/water loss, and was planning on speccing ASAP into 20% to see if it was any more bearable, but it was just too savage so I said ♥♥♥♥ it and just decided to wait until the "fix" is fixed, or maybe go back to A16 at some point.

 

And it wasn't 50%, that was a slight exaggeration. It was closer to 58-62% even after eating and drinking starter chili/water and having the 10% food/water perk.

 

The lack of documentation has got to stop at some point. So many things get changed. Recipes that have been the same for years are now different just in the last 2 days, like forges requiring nails and 1k iron and leather or w/e, and some food recipes now requiring animal fat when they never have before. It's just too much to keep up with if you don't tell us what you're changing and we have to learn the hard way about every single new change you're making for no apparent reason.

 

EDIT: To further clarify what I think we might like to see in patch notes or tooltips...

 

Tell us everything that drains stamina. If you're hot, it drains 5% faster. If you're swealtering it drains 10% faster. If you're cold, it drains 10% slower. If being burdened 3 slots over drains it 3% faster, tell us. If burdened 10 slots over = 10% faster stamina drain, tell us.

 

If you change a recipe, spell it out beforehand and maybe explain why you changed recipes all of a sudden.

 

If being in a tiny map which is now 80% foggy rain and smoke makes us more hungry, tell us by what percentage.

 

Whatever, just keep us in the loop if you want us to spend time testing instead of trying to relearn every ♥♥♥♥ing mechanic with every single experimental release, as attempts are made to vaguely "rebalance" things, but end up breaking things and being nearly unplayable because nobody on the dev/testing team spent more than 2 minutes actually seeing if the "rebalancing" makes any practical sense as you play the game.

 

Thanks!

[Ghostlight]

Would be really nice if the UI showed us this

 

I think it (kinda) does. I have noticed the game flashing '99% fullness' repeatedly (like every few minutes). I thought it was a bug at first, now I suspect it was over-filling.

[Exxodous]

Scenario 1... I must get to the trader.

 

Run full speed until my stamina is gone, wait, and repeat (while overburdened) - Complain that stamina usage is too high, they don't have enough food, and it's boring.

 

Scenario 2... I need to gather rocks and wood.

 

Chop boulders and 1200 hp trees with a stone ax until stamina is gone, wait and repeat - Complain that stamina usage is too high, they don't have enough food and it's boring.

 

I find it interesting the lack of critical thinking and problem solving some people display. If action X produces undesirable effects...stop doing the same thing over and over. Try a different approach.

 

Try walking towards the trader. Search some trash bags for useful items (empty jars), search nests for eggs, pick up single rocks, punch the bush that gives wood, avoid zombies.

It's not a race to get to the trader, enjoy the journey, have some patience. Using the above approach I reached my trader (2.5k away) by 1400 with 71 stamina left, bought some food, cleared a POI for the night and settled in with full stamina and 8 bacon and eggs cooking.

 

Seems simple to me, but I guess in this world of instant gratification and participation trophies no one wants to to put in the effort and actually earn their rewards.

[PoppaTot]

Scenario 1... I must get to the trader.

 

Run full speed until my stamina is gone, wait, and repeat (while overburdened) - Complain that stamina usage is too high, they don't have enough food, and it's boring.

 

Scenario 2... I need to gather rocks and wood.

 

Chop boulders and 1200 hp trees with a stone ax until stamina is gone, wait and repeat - Complain that stamina usage is too high, they don't have enough food and it's boring.

 

I find it interesting the lack of critical thinking and problem solving some people display. If action X produces undesirable effects...stop doing the same thing over and over. Try a different approach.

 

Try walking towards the trader. Search some trash bags for useful items (empty jars), search nests for eggs, pick up single rocks, punch the bush that gives wood, avoid zombies.

It's not a race to get to the trader, enjoy the journey, have some patience. Using the above approach I reached my trader (2.5k away) by 1400 with 71 stamina left, bought some food, cleared a POI for the night and settled in with full stamina and 8 bacon and eggs cooking.

 

Seems simple to me, but I guess in this world of instant gratification and participation trophies no one wants to to put in the effort and actually earn their rewards.

 

Roger that, play the game the way it's fun for you instead of suggesting how it would be more fun for us. Got it. /sarcasm

 

Kidding aside, just because the patience game is fun for you doesn't mean everyone enjoys the leisurely stroll to the trader. It's not about participation trophies and whining, it's about a build being in experimental and trying to help with balancing. You may not agree with some balances, I may not agree with some balances, TFP could do something that NOONE agrees with. Doesn't mean it's wrong of people to bring their constructive criticism and ideas to the table.

[Poojam]

Roger that, play the game the way it's fun for you instead of suggesting how it would be more fun for us. Got it. /sarcasm

 

Kidding aside, just because the patience game is fun for you doesn't mean everyone enjoys the leisurely stroll to the trader. It's not about participation trophies and whining, it's about a build being in experimental and trying to help with balancing. You may not agree with some balances, I may not agree with some balances, TFP could do something that NOONE agrees with. Doesn't mean it's wrong of people to bring their constructive criticism and ideas to the table.

 

Wanna know if it's fun or not?

 

Just install A16 and load up a game. If you're like me, you'll be really relieved to simply move. It feels like you've been carrying a big load, your legs were in jello, and then it's all taken off. Its fun again to move in the game.

 

It's a combination of the agility nerfs, stamina rework, and consumption rate. I can't understand why anyone would want them to spend a bunch of time slowing down your ability to move instead of implementing just about any other goal (ie bandits) in the game.

 

Edit - I felt like a horse that's been locked up in the barn all winter and finally let out to graze when I reloaded A16

[Aerial]

Kidding aside, just because the patience game is fun for you doesn't mean everyone enjoys the leisurely stroll to the trader. It's not about participation trophies and whining, it's about a build being in experimental and trying to help with balancing. You may not agree with some balances, I may not agree with some balances, TFP could do something that NOONE agrees with. Doesn't mean it's wrong of people to bring their constructive criticism and ideas to the table.

 

I'm honestly perplexed why people are trying to run everywhere still when the stamina changes obviously are intended to make "running" more like a sprint and therefore something you can't do all the time (without having to stop for a while and catch your breath). I know it's different from A16 but it's a perfectly reasonable mechanic and not all that hard to adjust to (IMO, of course).

 

Personally, I like the walk speed a lot. I can spot nests more easily and it lets me fluidly chop those little trees for wood, pick up stones and rifle through trash with little slowdown. And if I want to move faster I can walk/run/walk/run in spurts and get there faster without draining my stamina.

[PoppaTot]

Wanna know if it's fun or not?

 

Just install A16 and load up a game. If you're like me, you'll be really relieved to simply move. It feels like you've been carrying a big load, your legs were in jello, and then it's all taken off. Its fun again to move in the game.

 

It's a combination of the agility nerfs, stamina rework, and consumption rate. I can't understand why anyone would want them to spend a bunch of time slowing down your ability to move instead of implementing just about any other goal (ie bandits) in the game.

 

I did backup all my saves and have been kind of itching to get back into one of my kill zone bases. I stopped on day 140 I believe with fully stocked shotgun turrets.... Those late game horde nights are AWESOME!

[PoppaTot]

I'm honestly perplexed why people are trying to run everywhere still when the stamina changes obviously are intended to make "running" more like a sprint and therefore something you can't do all the time (without having to stop for a while and catch your breath). I know it's different from A16 but it's a perfectly reasonable mechanic and not all that hard to adjust to (IMO, of course).

 

Personally, I like the walk speed a lot. I can spot nests more easily and it lets me fluidly chop those little trees for wood, pick up stones and rifle through trash with little slowdown. And if I want to move faster I can walk/run/walk/run in spurts and get there faster without draining my stamina.

 

I don't mind either way to be honest. It just perplexes me that some of us on the forums decide that only "my" way is fun and shame on you for thinking different. It happens on both sides of the fence for every topic, I have been guilty of it too, though I try not to be. It's like I'm watching politics on the news here sometimes lmao. Everyone trying to shame everyone else because only they can be the person with the "correct" answers.

 

Disclaimer: this is honestly not directed at anyone personally.

[Poojam]

I don't mind either way to be honest. It just perplexes me that some of us on the forums decide that only "my" way is fun and shame on you for thinking different. It happens on both sides of the fence for every topic, I have been guilty of it too, though I try not to be. It's like I'm watching politics on the news here sometimes lmao. Everyone trying to shame everyone else because only they can be the person with the "correct" answers.

 

Disclaimer: this is honestly not directed at anyone personally.

 

My way was the way it was for the last 16 iterations/5 years. Advocates for A17 should be doing the selling here.

[Ghostlight]

Scenario 1... I must get to the trader.

 

Run full speed until my stamina is gone, wait, and repeat (while overburdened) - Complain that stamina usage is too high, they don't have enough food, and it's boring.

 

So now I have to walk most of the way or stop very regularly. Sorry but that IS boring.

 

Scenario 2... I need to gather rocks and wood.

 

Chop boulders and 1200 hp trees with a stone ax until stamina is gone, wait and repeat - Complain that stamina usage is too high, they don't have enough food and it's boring..

 

Blame TFP. Since the strike that destroys the tree or the stage of the boulder yields far more resource than all the other strikes, it is simply not efficient to mine only part of a tree/boulder.

 

Personally, I like the walk speed a lot.

 

Even if you have to walk 2km? Really?

[Exxodous]

Roger that, play the game the way it's fun for you instead of suggesting how it would be more fun for us. Got it. /sarcasm

 

Kidding aside, just because the patience game is fun for you doesn't mean everyone enjoys the leisurely stroll to the trader. It's not about participation trophies and whining, it's about a build being in experimental and trying to help with balancing. You may not agree with some balances, I may not agree with some balances, TFP could do something that NOONE agrees with. Doesn't mean it's wrong of people to bring their constructive criticism and ideas to the table.

 

Maybe I worded my post wrong. It's a survival game. To be a survival game there must be "obstacles". The obstacles may come in many forms. If an obstacle exists and the game provides you with a path to deal with the obstacle, where is the problem?

 

In other words if TFP want's stamina and hunger to be a survival element/obstacle, but running non stop or exerting yourself constantly (ie chopping wood etc) has no effect on it then there is no obstacle.

 

In this instance one path to deal with the stamina food usage obstacle is to conserve when possible until you level up. It just seems people are used to playing a certain way and are unable to adapt. I used to run all the way to the trader also, but now I've realized that is a bad idea if I want to have some food at the end of the day. "shrugs"

[Krougal]

OH FFS! This build sounds more and more worth sitting out.

I thought we were done ♥♥♥♥ing stamina about in 228, it felt about right to me (although food drain still too fast)

 

As far as struggling early game, it wouldn't bother me in the least bit, I'd actually enjoy a more leisurely slower paced game...except for one thing: Getting ready for the next 7 day horde is the driving factor in this game. I've really enjoyed some games where I couldn't find a spot I liked enough to settle down early on and kinda wandered and lived hand to mouth, but then come horde night it was screw this, delete, restart.

[PoppaTot]

Maybe I worded my post wrong. It's a survival game. To be a survival game there must be "obstacles". The obstacles may come in many forms. If an obstacle exists and the game provides you with a path to deal with the obstacle, where is the problem?

 

In other words if TFP want's stamina and hunger to be a survival element/obstacle, but running non stop or exerting yourself constantly (ie chopping wood etc) has no effect on it then there is no obstacle.

 

In this instance one path to deal with the stamina food usage obstacle is to conserve when possible until you level up. It just seems people are used to playing a certain way and are unable to adapt. I used to run all the way to the trader also, but now I've realized that is a bad idea if I want to have some food at the end of the day. "shrugs"

 

I totally get what you're saying, I'm not even disagreeing with you. I will say that in my experience when I decide to walk to the trader I still end up totally encumbered from searching cars, garbage, trash, ans POIs if stumble upon it. Then I have to decided, make a drop chest and have to make the next part of the walk 2 more times, or just keep going, or get rid of stuff I may need (I don't take stuff I don't need on day 1). Then I still have to hope there is a place to clear out and stay the night, or just hide in the dark with no protection after I visit the trader. Either way I still have to worry about the food and stamina because I either have to make the walk back and forth again, or I lose a ton of stamina walking encumbered.

 

For the record, I'll usually do none of those options. Just giving examples. Generally I just walk until I'm close enough to the trader and look for a place to stay. Last night I had to eat raw eggs because I was out of food (I know they balanced for today's build) by noon. The second egg got me sick... I ate 13 more immediately to fill up my bar lol.

 

Plenty of options, some just aren't fun for everyone is my point. Good RNG with food helps tremendously day 1.