Limdood Posted December 15, 2018 Author Share Posted December 15, 2018 Look I'm fine with having the gate or not, making it affect forged steel or not. The point of this thread is that TFP need to resolve the disconnect between the hard gate of 60 for steel, and the several recipes using significant steel amounts BEFORE 60. That is all. How they do that is up to them, but right now their content conflicts with each other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoppaTot Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 I'll tell you what I've been told on about 20 different topics for the last month. Mod it like you like Git gud You're playing it wrong Go play something else It's alpha It's experimental and unbalanced TFP aren't looking for feedback at this point, maybe when stable releases they will look at it again Don't forget the: you're just part of the obnoxiously loud minority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenpaiThatIngnoresYou Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Do the traders sell crucibles? If so then that is a good work around. I know i have seen tap and die sets there. The questing system has not only made level gating bearable, but given me access to things FASTER then i normally get them. Every time i do a quest, i buy concrete and rebar, not mods. so come horde night i don't set traps but kill the zombies when they attack my place. I will keep an eye out for crucibles at the trader now. I will also be looking into the working stiff boxes, because those also can have the crucibles too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zackss Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Even with traders, you're unlikely to get the 36 forged steel you need to make it unless you've been religiously hitting up several traders thru several different restocks. I had 80-something steel before day 30 from wrenching and buying in 208 (didn't even know it wasn't still gated like A16). I don't know why you think finding 36 steel by level 60 is a hard task. I wasn't even making it a priority when buying, just whenever there was some extra money and nothing else I wanted. It's a common gating technique to have materials start out rare or hard to get, then become sufficient, then become infinite. You're "good game design" drops you all the resources you could ever want as soon as you unlock anything that needs them, negating any meaningful choice on where to spend a limited supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotitdone Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 And they are found at the top of poles? Also... they are called: in the XML..... ... but if you're sure. Hmm. I thought they were axles too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCrook1028 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Do the traders sell crucibles? If so then that is a good work around. I know i have seen tap and die sets there. The questing system has not only made level gating bearable, but given me access to things FASTER then i normally get them. Every time i do a quest, i buy concrete and rebar, not mods. so come horde night i don't set traps but kill the zombies when they attack my place. I will keep an eye out for crucibles at the trader now. I will also be looking into the working stiff boxes, because those also can have the crucibles too. Even if the trader sold you a crucible you could not use it to make steel without the perk for steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyStar Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 I'll tell you what I've been told on about 20 different topics for the last month. Mod it like you like Git gud You're playing it wrong Go play something else It's alpha It's experimental and unbalanced TFP aren't looking for feedback at this point, maybe when stable releases they will look at it again I feel your pain brother! If you disagree with something, you are just a hater (or one of the other points you mentioned) if you ON THE OTHER HAND say "oh yeah thats great!", you will be taken as an example for the next 100 posts claiming it is bad. "see? you are just stupid most ppl like him like the changes" You can't win with these people. So just ignore them. Give your feedback anyways and laugh at those who think those things are actual arguments rather than cheaply waving off a legitamate issue. "I'm so surprised you two feel this way!" Said no one ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morloc Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I'll tell you what I've been told on about 20 different topics for the last month... ...TFP aren't looking for feedback at this point, maybe when stable releases they will look at it again I'm pretty curious; someone actually said that? -Morloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corbit Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 There is really no need for steel to be gated. Add coal to the forge contents and have it require coal to make, increase the time/resources it takes to craft where required. Int perks can then affect your time/resources required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krougal Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I b208, you could make a crucible with NO perk. If you found a trader with a forge and workbench, and you farmed up the stone, dirt, mechanical parts, and forged the iron, you could make a crucible day....well, probably no earlier than day 2, considering the time required to get 1200 dirt, 800 stone, and then wait ~15 minutes for the crucible itself. I made a crucible several times in at least 3 different B208 games well before the steel perk (and before workbench in some of them). It allowed me to repair weapons and tools i bought, found, or earned. In B221, crucible (i tested carefully in new games) and forged steel itself (I heard from a few different sources, though it irrelevant, since you need the crucible anyways) are BOTH gated behind rank 3 of hammer and forge. I tested and made absolutely sure of what I was talking about before i posted. If you're going to call someone out, you could at least do that much yourself. Being how many recipes were plain broken in earlier builds I highly doubt it was ever intended that we could make the crucible without steel perk. I've got mixed feelings about the motorcycle perk, it is a bummer to get a perk and then realize you still can't use it, but then you can't craft other parts it needs at that level either. It's a given for most of us that we have to scavenge mechanical parts to build anything that needs them (since that was always gated well past everything, it was a convenience) I feel your pain brother! If you disagree with something, you are just a hater (or one of the other points you mentioned) if you ON THE OTHER HAND say "oh yeah thats great!", you will be taken as an example for the next 100 posts claiming it is bad. "see? you are just stupid most ppl like him like the changes" You can't win with these people. So just ignore them. Give your feedback anyways and laugh at those who think those things are actual arguments rather than cheaply waving off a legitamate issue. Probably because the 2 of you were making non-stop threads of massive negativity and acting like the sky was falling. Then you get into pedantic arguments with Roland and Gazz where you hang on every word. Presentation has a lot to do with it. The "not looking for feedback at this point" was on a specific thing (cause I'm pretty sure I remember the thread where Gazz said it), which made sense at this time, but you guys are making it into a blanket statement, which it isn't. This is just my observations, not "white-knighting" by any means, y'all can take it as a tip to how to get better responses or tell me to piss off, I really don't give a ♥♥♥♥. I feel like when I give feedback it actually gets considered. Do I expect them to implement everything I ask for? No. Certain things are core to their vision of the game and no matter how much we bitch about it, they aren't going away. I think they still go pretty far out of their way to allow us to play the game the way we want too. All the option sliders. Super easy modding for what isn't. Name me 1 other game that does all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricp Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Got no issue with gated steel, after all A16 was equally gated around the crucible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolJ Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Got no issue with gated steel, after all A16 was equally gated around the crucible. No, they are not equal at all. In A16 there were not several recipes that required bulk steel in A16 that unlocked before you could craft bulk steel. Now, there are. For instance, all of the gun mods and guns that you unlock recipes for that require steel before you can make steel. It's knee jerk because someone decided we needed to be able to craft steel arrows from the beginning and they didn't want everyone running around with steel arrows at level 20. They should have thought about that before they planned for you to be able to make steel naturally and made a crap ton of early recipes require it. It was better before when you just had to wait on the steel arrows. From the shear amount of recipes that require bulk steel long before you can unlock steel tool making, it's clear that they intended for you to be able to make steel naturally. The recent change was hasty and clearly at the behest of someone that just wanted to craft steel arrows from the heads they found. They either had no idea about the current crafting requirements or forgot about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limdood Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 CoolJ... I'm fairly sure (I could be wrong, but I'd bet on this...) that the steel change was hard-gated so that people didn't get steel-block bases by day 7... The old gates allowed you to still get steel bars, and a found workbench (crucible), forge easily accessible (cement), and cement mixer (to get concrete set up) could give you a small selection of 12,000 hp blocks for your base VERY early. That being said, you hit the nail on the head - the issue isn't the gate itself. If they want to gate it, then gate it, but the disconnect between the high-steel use recipes (mods, motorcycle, guns, advanced bolts/arrows) and the level steel is actually able to be produced is a problem that needs a resolution...one way or the other (let us make those items freely when they're available, OR keep them from being available before the materials they need) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 This is all just academic since the b221 level gating system has been thrown out. Best to see what the new version brings and complain about that one because this one will be overwritten as soon as the experimental branch updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyris Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 This is all just academic since the b221 level gating system has been thrown out. Best to see what the new version brings and complain about that one because this one will be overwritten as soon as the experimental branch updates. Oh intersting, they are tossing out the lv gates in the next build? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCrook1028 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Oh intersting, they are tossing out the lv gates in the next build? Yea and we've known that since MM said so himself last Thursday (?) in the dev diary thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyStar Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Best to see what the new version brings and complain about that one ... Hehe...... Can't wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlebizzle Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 LOL - well I liked the level gating much better than adding a whole bunch of required skill points to everything tbh. Now you need 25+ skill points to max an attribute instead of 10. Going to make for some really boring leveling up going 11 levels without any new perks just so you can buy the last couple attribute points on a single attribute. It also really punishes specialization. I guess I'll be leveling up all the attributes more or less evenly from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 LOL - well I liked the level gating much better than adding a whole bunch of required skill points to everything tbh. Now you need 25+ skill points to max an attribute instead of 10. Going to make for some really boring leveling up going 11 levels without any new perks just so you can buy the last couple attribute points on a single attribute. It also really punishes specialization. I guess I'll be leveling up all the attributes more or less evenly from now on. lol...the other side of the coin... This change was made precisely because level gating was seen by many to punish specialization. They had to wait for the level in order to spend their points so they spent laterally instead. This is the same thing but with cost. However, now at least you can choose to save those points and specialize up one attribute faster than what was previously allowed. You can max out one attribute before level 20 instead of level 100 like it was before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willcheat Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 You need 26 skill points to max out 1 attribute. You get 4 from the start quest line, so that means you have to hit lvl 23 (22 earned SP) before you can max out an attribute. To top all attributes, without getting any perks, you'll need to get lvl 127. Yikes Edit : Right, forgot, if anyone does want to unlock the crucible and steel before said perk, I made a lil modlet here : https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IhxzCZWhwuhLLSTA8spSwAnm76USuYrc Doesn't unlock tools though, so you'll need to find those the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 To top all attributes, without getting any perks, you'll need to get lvl 127. That's an interesting self-imposed challenge but a) no b) why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamienDarkside Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Wasn't steel always level gated to a high level? You shouldn't be making steel items before day 14, let alone 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willcheat Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 That's an interesting self-imposed challenge but a) no b) why? no as in "No, it doesn't take that long"? With B231, attributes cost more as you level them up. The level cost is 1 1 2 2 2 3 4 5 6. Add that together, that's 26 skill points. 5 attributes * 26 skill points is 130 skill points. You get 4 free skill points from the start quest (down from 5), so you need to earn 126 skill points. 1 skill point per level, you start at lvl 1 with 0 skill point, that means you need to hit lvl 127 (126 + 1) to unlock lvl 10 in each attribute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krougal Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 So now it's still for all intents and purposes level-gated to about the same point, because what good is it to rush steel when you don't have any other skills. And now you'll have less overall skills at lvl 60. I officially change my stance from "I don't mind it so much" to "I hate this level-gating" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyStar Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 So now it's still for all intents and purposes level-gated to about the same point, because what good is it to rush steel when you don't have any other skills. And now you'll have less overall skills at lvl 60. I officially change my stance from "I don't mind it so much" to "I hate this level-gating" Admittedly this is going to take some getting used to. I'm going to play a few games and see how it goes........ with an open mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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