7d2d horde "problem"

[Viktoriusiii]

First: I play on insane so damage to blocks might be increased by a little.

Second: Before A17, I died around 20 times, ~15 of those deaths were either through bugs or other things not my fault (back in the day you were spawned in the wasteland and there were zombiedogs... so yeah )

 

So imagine how I, now with 35 deaths, feel. BUT this is not a "buhuhu game so mean" post. It is a simple fact:

 

I have dug myself a bunker (so non exploit looping). And have prepared everything for hordenight for the whole 7 days.

This was my 3rd attempt of building a secure base day 7, always trying to improve.

 

This time, zombies shredded:

10 metal bars

15 iron spikes

2 metal doors

 

and survived (or at least instantly new ones filling back up) 6 molotov cocktails and 4 pipebombs, as well as my whole 32 shots of the shotgun.

I died shooting like a madman with my ak (dmg boosted) and got torn to shreds after I reloaded.

 

 

Wanna guess the time I died?

 

23:13

 

THIS is absolutely retarded.

Yes I like that zombies are now a threat at night.

But I was well prepared. Maybe overly prepared for the first horde.

I couldnt even repair the doors as fast as the zombies destroyed them, so I switched to molotovs&pipebombs.

Like... I leveled 3 whole levels... which means ~35+ zombies killed. And there was no end in sight.

 

I was only level 17. So I wasn't even able (I edited the xml but I'm talking base game) to get the first Tier 3 stuff.

 

I know this has been a much talked about issue. And I really like their pathing (when not abusing them). But the damage they deal on blocks is... like... what?

And since there are no logspikes and my trader didnt have a generator/any traps, there was NOTHING!!! I could do.

 

Yes you can simply try and run away from them or use one of the other exploits... but I want to play this game like it was reallife. And letting them loop or swimming on top of a lake or stuff is not how I would try and survive! I would try and bunker in myself and try and kill them before they destroy my defenses!.

 

 

 

Bottom line:

there is no need to even try and prepare myself for hordenight right now.

Yes there are some exploity builds that aren't clear exploits (where you lure them around and stuff) but it should at least be POSSIBLE to build a bunker that holds out most of the night.

And its not.

[Slingblade2040]

First: I play on insane so damage to blocks might be increased by a little.

Second: Before A17, I died around 20 times, ~15 of those deaths were either through bugs or other things not my fault (back in the day you were spawned in the wasteland and there were zombiedogs... so yeah )

 

So imagine how I, now with 35 deaths, feel. BUT this is not a "buhuhu game so mean" post. It is a simple fact:

 

I have dug myself a bunker (so non exploit looping). And have prepared everything for hordenight for the whole 7 days.

This was my 3rd attempt of building a secure base day 7, always trying to improve.

 

This time, zombies shredded:

10 metal bars

15 iron spikes

2 metal doors

 

and survived (or at least instantly new ones filling back up) 6 molotov cocktails and 4 pipebombs, as well as my whole 32 shots of the shotgun.

I died shooting like a madman with my ak (dmg boosted) and got torn to shreds after I reloaded.

 

 

Wanna guess the time I died?

 

23:13

 

THIS is absolutely retarded.

Yes I like that zombies are now a threat at night.

But I was well prepared. Maybe overly prepared for the first horde.

I couldnt even repair the doors as fast as the zombies destroyed them, so I switched to molotovs&pipebombs.

Like... I leveled 3 whole levels... which means ~35+ zombies killed. And there was no end in sight.

 

I was only level 17. So I wasn't even able (I edited the xml but I'm talking base game) to get the first Tier 3 stuff.

 

I know this has been a much talked about issue. And I really like their pathing (when not abusing them). But the damage they deal on blocks is... like... what?

And since there are no logspikes and my trader didnt have a generator/any traps, there was NOTHING!!! I could do.

 

Yes you can simply try and run away from them or use one of the other exploits... but I want to play this game like it was reallife. And letting them loop or swimming on top of a lake or stuff is not how I would try and survive! I would try and bunker in myself and try and kill them before they destroy my defenses!.

 

 

 

Bottom line:

there is no need to even try and prepare myself for hordenight right now.

Yes there are some exploity builds that aren't clear exploits (where you lure them around and stuff) but it should at least be POSSIBLE to build a bunker that holds out most of the night.

And its not.

 

You played on insane so idk what you expected. I've played on insane on alpha 16 also and day 7 and beyond was a freaken joke let's be honest. Insane no represents how insanely difficult the game should be on that setting. Now here is what you can do.

 

Increase block durability to 200% this can be done on the advanced settings tab before loading your world.

 

2 hour days along with air drops every day for better loot and longer prep time.

 

Place barbwire fence to slow them down then wood spikes and metal spikes.

 

If the trader had any get concrete mix or make some if trader has working cement mixer or you find a working one in the world.

 

Now if you ignore these options or say it would make the game easier on insane well then idk what to say besides plan better and keep trying till you figure it out.

[Viktoriusiii]

Now if you ignore these options or say it would make the game easier on insane well then idk what to say besides plan better and keep trying till you figure it out.

 

1. Insane only increases blockdamge by 100%. So even on the easiest difficulty, they would have breached at ~0:00

2. I'm talking about the base game that most people play. And most ppl don't change the settings much, especially not block durability (and it changes how often you need to hit)

3. the problem is, that they simply destroy the barbed wire. At least the metal spikes killed the first few

4. I had concrete. but they broke through the doors. So if you want me to completely barricade with concrete sure... that might give me about 1 hour (maybe), but also it takes away the possibility to fight back/throw molotovs and pipebombs.

 

I don't ignore those things (except settings because I want to play a normal game). And even with zombies on insane and always jog, what I'm talking about is the zombie damage to blocks.

I mean how can you honestly defend that? Have you tried it? Because I doubt that. The tunnel/bunker was 13 blocks down with a 20 block long tunnel so as to hold them off for longer. My base is near endgame level (without electronics). I was insanely lucky to have an awesome poi and a trader with working forge/mixer/workbench. All of that didn't matter.

So if you tell me I just think the game is too hard and there is absolutely nothing wrong with zombiedamage to blocks, then I am sorry, but I might start laughing any second.

 

*edit*

TL;DR:

I shouldn't need a degree in advanced engeniering to create a bunker that withstands THE FIRST STUPID HORDE!!! (as I said, I even got incredibly lucky with trader and weapons and even a pick that 5shots stone)

 

There were no glowing zombies, no cops, no military... nothing! Just normal (and fat) zombies, chewing threw my insane defenses like they are bubblegum.

[Slingblade2040]

Upgrade concrete blocks to steel, put down more spikes, make layered walls with spikes and barbwire fence in between with rails above so you can shoot down. Don't know if you have air drops at everyday or not and days set at 2 hours or not. Same with loot abundance. But let's say you are playing with a shorter time frame take over a prefab build that into a steel horde base. Now if you are saying no you want to build your own horde base on the most difficult setting, where zombies get a buff to damage because of the setting with normal 60 day mins or even 90 day minutes, with normal loot and normal block durability.. then that's an issue you have to solve or are just being unrealistic thinking it can be done alone by day 7 with those settings.

[Viktoriusiii]

Steel... day 7... you do know that it is gated behind like... level 60 i think?

And I do not want to farm zombies all day long to get there. And no I play on standart 60min.

I only got two lootdrops, both containing canned food (scrapmetal).

And I was insanely lucky to get a good shotgun/ak in the first 7 days.

 

 

PLEASE stop trying to find loopholes and accept that THIS AMOUNT OF DAMAGE ON DAY 7 IS NOT OKAY. I consider myself a really good player... I had 2 runs (in 208) to try and fix flaws in my base. I had insane luck with cement mixer and the trader having basically everything I could ask for (except a generator/bladetraps) and I couldn't even make it to midnight.

 

Honestly. I'm done arguing with you, since nothing you said made any sense for a day 7 horde.

[Kaiote]

Howdy!

I am having a difficult time understanding some of these threads. I am a new player with maybe 1/200th of the time in of alot of folks here, bought 7d2d at a16.4, wasn't fond, but returned because I liked the looks of what I saw in the a17 teasers. I also don't find myself having any of the aforementioned "problems" with the "retarded" system.

My first 7d horde night in b221, playing default settings across the board was hectic, but relatively manageable. My base was a wood box, with bottom level upgraded with scrap iron, spikes around and a clear path to the front deck that I built out front. I installed two iron doors, loaded my pink lvl2 shotgun and grabbed my lvl1 fireaxe. I sprinkled 10 barbed wire fences out front and placed down a chair as 22:00 hit. By midnight I was running low on shells, and the first dogs and fat guys started getting up the front steps. I retreated behind the doors, took painkillers, loaded up, swung the doors open before they bashed through and let loose with my shotgun, which gave me time to switch to the fireaxe. Again, hectic, but standard swings, only stopping for bandage or painkillers and the horde stopped coming at 02:00. I was level 12, no deaths and had killed 37 z's.

I understand "Insane" would be quite a bit more challenging, but I also believe that maybe alot of these frustrations are caused by people carrying their strategies and expectations from previous builds into the current experimental. Just a noobs 10cents.

[Slingblade2040]

Steel... day 7... you do know that it is gated behind like... level 60 i think?

And I do not want to farm zombies all day long to get there. And no I play on standart 60min.

I only got two lootdrops, both containing canned food (scrapmetal).

And I was insanely lucky to get a good shotgun/ak in the first 7 days.

 

 

PLEASE stop trying to find loopholes and accept that THIS AMOUNT OF DAMAGE ON DAY 7 IS NOT OKAY. I consider myself a really good player... I had 2 runs (in 208) to try and fix flaws in my base. I had insane luck with cement mixer and the trader having basically everything I could ask for (except a generator/bladetraps) and I couldn't even make it to midnight.

 

Honestly. I'm done arguing with you, since nothing you said made any sense for a day 7 horde.

 

Steel isn't gated...the steel tools are but not steel. It can be made along with the crucible without getting the tools perk so yes you can upgrade to steel if possible. Again you are playing on Insane difficulty idk. They aren't loopholes they are viable strats nothing in what I said has you cheating the AI. You are being stubborn or refuse to try different strats to defeat day 7 horde on insane. Options were given and you seem to ignore them and want to stubbornly blame the devs. You chose to play on the most difficult setting, you want to play on 60 min days which gives you less time to prepare and then you complain about the day 7 horde beine to difficult for you on those settings? If option A doesn't work then try option B then try option A again later on when you have the appropriate resources. No idea why you think a day 7 horde base should be fine on Insane difficulty with 60 mins days just because it worked fine on alpha 16. Insane was a joke on alpha 16 and they finally put that setting to how it should be and because you can't have a base by day 7 with those settings you want the difficulty nerfed? That makes no sense.

[Viktoriusiii]

Well... its not really a "A16" build... its a "realistic" build, which was, before A17 unviable, because it was inpenetrable (I never built underground, because you were 100% safe, now I started it and this is what greeted me)

 

Wait... okay... you just made me see it... I made an oupsie.

 

I have 64 bloodmoon zombies at a time...

Oupsie Doopsie!

 

Well.. that still doesnt fix that zombies clip inside each other to hit the door...

but it DOES explain, why there were so many of them.

 

Then my next point of contention is:

stop zombies from clipping inside each other. There are like 5-8 zombies whacking at a door(surrounded by concrete, so they didnt hit it from the side) at once... that makes no god damn sense

 

 

 

So... while it was my fault for leaving 64 zombies on blood moon on,I still think the amount of enemies that are spawned in should not be influenced how MANY zombies are beeing spawned in...

Like... I thought that setting only influences how many zombies CAN spawn at once (like, its not a difficulty setting, but a performance setting)

but it seems I was wrong about that... because after I killed the first "wave" another one as big as the one before spawned... so... yea I doubt that I am supposed to get 50 zombies on day 7.

 

 

 

QUESTION:

Is "blood moon count" intended to raise the (total) amount of zombies spawned? So if I have 8 bloodmoon count, I get like 30 zombies overall and if I have 64 bloodmooncount I get 80+ zombies overall?

OR is it supposed to work like in Mount and Blade, where the amount of zombies is fixed (so I get 30 zombies, but since only 8 of them can be spawned in at a time, I get ~8 waves of zombies)

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Steel isn't gated...the steel tools are but not steel. It can be made along with the crucible without getting the tools perk so yes you can upgrade to steel if possible. Again you are playing on Insane difficulty idk. They aren't loopholes they are viable strats nothing in what I said has you cheating the AI. You are being stubborn or refuse to try different strats to defeat day 7 horde on insane. Options were given and you seem to ignore them and want to stubbornly blame the devs. You chose to play on the most difficult setting, you want to play on 60 min days which gives you less time to prepare and then you complain about the day 7 horde beine to difficult for you on those settings? If option A doesn't work then try option B then try option A again later on when you have the appropriate resources. No idea why you think a day 7 horde base should be fine on Insane difficulty with 60 mins days just because it worked fine on alpha 16. Insane was a joke on alpha 16 and they finally put that setting to how it should be and because you can't have a base by day 7 with those settings you want the difficulty nerfed? That makes no sense.

 

figured it out. 64 bloodmoon count in singleplayer seems to be breaking the balance... so if I had simply done it with 8, my base would have EASILY held up

[Slingblade2040]

Glad you were able to figure it out. Supposedly the blood moon count is just how many spawn can spawn in at once so I'd guess if it's at 64 you would get Bum rushed by all 64 or less. Think for how many you get throughout the night is dependent on gamestage but not sure on that.

[Limdood]

Steel isn't gated...the steel tools are but not steel. It can be made along with the crucible without getting the tools perk so yes you can upgrade to steel if possible. Again you are playing on Insane difficulty idk. They aren't loopholes they are viable strats nothing in what I said has you cheating the AI. You are being stubborn or refuse to try different strats to defeat day 7 horde on insane. Options were given and you seem to ignore them and want to stubbornly blame the devs. You chose to play on the most difficult setting, you want to play on 60 min days which gives you less time to prepare and then you complain about the day 7 horde beine to difficult for you on those settings? If option A doesn't work then try option B then try option A again later on when you have the appropriate resources. No idea why you think a day 7 horde base should be fine on Insane difficulty with 60 mins days just because it worked fine on alpha 16. Insane was a joke on alpha 16 and they finally put that setting to how it should be and because you can't have a base by day 7 with those settings you want the difficulty nerfed? That makes no sense.

 

Steel is gated now in B221.

 

The crucible, which doesn't drop in the world, is now a gated recipe. Trying to craft it now tells me I don't have the recipe. The recipe itself says you need the "hammer and Forge" perk, which is really annoying, because that implies you need to be level 20. It is incorrect. I am level 30 in my current game, with 2 points in hammer and forge, and the recipe is still not available. I really disapprove of the change, because steel tools are available thru quests or loot, but I can't even make forged steel to repair them...i have to rely on traders stocking them.

[PoppaTot]

Steel is gated now in B221.

 

The crucible, which doesn't drop in the world, is now a gated recipe. Trying to craft it now tells me I don't have the recipe. The recipe itself says you need the "hammer and Forge" perk, which is really annoying, because that implies you need to be level 20. It is incorrect. I am level 30 in my current game, with 2 points in hammer and forge, and the recipe is still not available. I really disapprove of the change, because steel tools are available thru quests or loot, but I can't even make forged steel to repair them...i have to rely on traders stocking them.

 

dang, I really enjoyed that steel was available to craft for repair purposes, hope that get reverted back.

[Kosmic Kerman]

Steel is gated now in B221.

 

The crucible, which doesn't drop in the world, is now a gated recipe. Trying to craft it now tells me I don't have the recipe. The recipe itself says you need the "hammer and Forge" perk, which is really annoying, because that implies you need to be level 20. It is incorrect. I am level 30 in my current game, with 2 points in hammer and forge, and the recipe is still not available. I really disapprove of the change, because steel tools are available thru quests or loot, but I can't even make forged steel to repair them...i have to rely on traders stocking them.

 

Did you start a new game or continue an old one?

[LuckyStar]

figured it out. 64 bloodmoon count in singleplayer seems to be breaking the balance... so if I had simply done it with 8, my base would have EASILY held up

 

 

Sooo... basically starting a thread about playing on the hardest difficulty is too hard... was completely pointless?

[JCrook1028]

Did you start a new game or continue an old one?

 

I continues an old save. ALready had my crucible crafted but not the steel tool perk yet. I cannot craft steel in the forge, says recipe unknown... so it's consistent with old save brought forward as well. Steel IS gated.

[Kalarro]

Damage to blocks is too high in a17. Gonna say this before the usual argument: Not because of the difficulty. Theres many ways to survive, like just running, building a maze, or the easiest, a small easy structure that makes them loop indefinately. The damage to blocks is too high bc it discourages building a sturdy base, and encourages exploiting the AI.

[Doctor3D]

Block damage is definitely pretty high. I've played most of A17 now on Survivalist which is one lower than insane. I put up three layers of cobblestone around a little fort and spent first horde night there just to test and they tore through it. I had to really grind to even build all of it on 60 min days.

 

5x5 (Iron Plated Interior)- with 3 extra layers of cobblestone around the whole thing - 4 Walls Thick

4 layers of wood spikes with a few extras spread about - ~ 90 Wood Spikes

Barbed wire on the walls and all around the spike perimeter at double height in most places - ~75 Barbed Wire

Wood Frames around the Edges

 

That stupid thing should be overkill for a first horde night even on a higher difficulty - but they just chew threw it.

 

 

Of course, you could just spend not even 10% of those resources and survive by just sitting on the roof of almost any moderate size POI. I'm also fully aware that there are far more efficient base designs that exploit the pathing of the AI. But, just for the sake of playing and building just a 'normal' base and trying to defend it - it's a bit too much even for me. You have to make some decisions in building that are overkill. The overall architectural choices are limited and general aesthetic of what you build takes a pretty big hit. Building an actual classic base is just meh in A17. It's best to just make funnels and long zig-zags that make them just take an eternity to path through. Which I hope is not what the devs really want from their game.

 

 

I really think the block damage of the zombies should scale with gamestage. I think the game would be a lot more fun and the content would be more useful and spread out if that were the case. Right now - if you don't intend on cheesing the AI pathing and truly just want to make some sort of actual base to defend - concrete is the bare minimum. It shouldn't be that way. The first or second week of blood moon zombies should have lower hand damage to blocks than a day 300 blood moon zombie. On day 7 maybe the zombies you get should have a harder time breaking wood than a day 300 where they can just look at wood and it blows away.

 

Some sort of a more spread out age system where wood is viable for maybe the first week or two. Then as your gamestage increases tougher zombies start appearing and you have to upgrade to a stone-based material like cobble or brick. In the middle of the game - zombies can destroy wood very quick, and cobble isn't nearly as viable - so you upgrade to concrete. Then by end-game - concrete starts to struggle to hold up and you better have your weakest points reinforced with steel. It sorta-kinda used to be this way and I thought at least that was maybe the direction they were heading. But now - way way opposite. You need multiple layers of the weaker stuff - since defense options and (just the time you have to get it all done) are quite limited at first.

[Viktoriusiii]

 

Sooo... basically starting a thread about playing on the hardest difficulty is too hard... was completely pointless?

 

no it wasn't.

As my previous 2 posters have stated, even with 8 zombies, they just chew threw layers of cobblestone like they are bubblegum.

And have you even read my question?

BEcause that is important! I thought 64 bloodmoon just means that I get all the zombies at once instead of in waves of 8. But if that increases the amount of zombies, that is completely bs (I thought its a performance thing with 64 zombies needing too much ram... which in my case isn't an issue so I put it up to 64, not knowing that there would be MORE overall zombies spawning!

[Royal Deluxe]

Steel isn't gated...the steel tools are but not steel.

Yes it is

[Browar]

I played on lower difficulty and even then zombies chew blocks like they were made of paper. My first bunkers failed. I decided to use pathing against zombies. My base was not one of those that put zombies into endless loop. I decided to build platform and "stairs" that leads to the top. (10 high, each step 2xblocks forward, 1 block down, each step filled with 1 spike and 1 barbed wire fence). I stood on top and shoot zombies with bow, when defences were gone - then guns. I upgraded stairs to metal, later to concrete - 1st layer needs to be tough, any gap may cause zombies to loose ability to climb up and then they will enter area attack mode. Which means - you're dead...

 

I'm not sure if this base counts to you as exploit.

 

When constructing next bunker - note that zombies will almost completely stop when they need to climb on single block. And they prefer climbing over attacking when they have path leading to you. Combine it with barbed wire and spike traps and you will get extra time to shoot them. And traps... well, they got dmg so fast from normal usage that I need to build extra maintenance tunnels to fix them... my 2 blade traps lost during last horde 6000hp... I had to repair them 4 times from 500hp to 2000hp. Same for electrical fence. Traps durability is a joke now.

 

My base:

[Royal Deluxe]

Stair Designs are the new "normal"

 

[Kalarro]

I'm not sure if this base counts to you as exploit.

 

It's not an exploit, it's sad.

 

What did you use to paint that btw?

[Gazz]

Howdy!

I am having a difficult time understanding some of these threads. I am a new player with maybe 1/200th of the time in of alot of folks here, bought 7d2d at a16.4, wasn't fond, but returned because I liked the looks of what I saw in the a17 teasers. I also don't find myself having any of the aforementioned "problems" with the "retarded" system.

Well, the problem is that a lot of players did super awesome with the broken AI of A16 and came to the conclusion that it was because of their super awesome skills.

A17 is now pointing out this misconception so clearly the game must be broken.

 

I have watched a live stream of insane / always run / permadeath... on day 38. And the 2 players - who had not died at the time - were defending a base instead of "simply running away".

Possible? Absolutely.

Can everyone do it? Absolutely not.

 

Playing at the highest difficulty is... difficult. I don't know how else I can explain that.

[Guppycur]

Yes. Because the ai can't be gamed by placing quarter poles flat on the ground, confusing the crap out of them... So that must be the only answer.

 

Oh wait...

 

[Viktoriusiii]

Stair Designs are the new "normal"

 

 

This is the new "base on stiltz" yaaay... from one exploit to another -_-

I will NEVER use stupid exploits.

 

But while on A16 you could still build "normal" bases with moderate to high success... now, they just chew through you... which makes it soooo sad

[Kalarro]

Well, the problem is that a lot of players did super awesome with the broken AI of A16 and came to the conclusion that it was because of their super awesome skills.

A17 is now pointing out this misconception so clearly the game must be broken.

 

Wow, just wow. So this is what happens with our feedback? You transform it into what you want to hear?

 

I tell you before a17 we did a 360؛ defense perimeter, with effort, and got surrounded by zombies beating it, and that was fun.

I tell you now I just have to do a minimaze or even just a miniramp and the dumb AI just stays there, while if I try to do a cool base that requires more effort, its worse bc of the damage the zombies do now to blocks.

I tell you this is much more BORING (not hard).

 

And instead of understanding that, you condescendly tell us we thought we were too good but we are not able to survive the new AI?

 

I am really amazed about your understanding. The forum is full of posts saying how easy it is to defend now. Just not the cool way. But no, the new AI is so intelligent that we are not able to adapt and thus our complains are wines.

Incredible understanding skills.