Death Penalty Poll

[Exxodous]

One could also say that the people that were willing to quit, didn't know to come to the forums to vote.

 

One could ALSO say that people who think 60 min death penalty was a great idea, didn't know to come to the forums to vote.

 

We forum vultures are a small percentage of the game ownership. We are also more likely to be passionate and outspoken personalities as those types of people generally migrate towards places they can express said passion. Who knows what the casual gamer thinks.

 

My wife definitely falls into the casual gamer category and she hasn't said boo about the new death penalty. I couldn't tell you if she likes it or hates it. Maybe I should have her come and vote, of course she'd have to create an account first lol.

 

Point is this poll really means squat. TFP is making a game they like, we either like it too or we do something about it. Quitting is technically doing something. I like the 60 min, can live with 30 min, will mod higher it if they put it at 15 min.

[Poojam]

My POINT was that people are still reacting to a big change.

 

The AMOOOOOOOOUNT of single days in unimportant.

 

Do you see why Roland is often frustrated by your posts?

 

It's like you focus on

- a single letter

- in a word

- in a sentence

- in a paragraph

- on a page

- in a chapter

- in a novel

 

and you forget what you're reading.

 

Come on. Stay focused.

 

You were making some points... we were debating... then you [possibly] got high and lost track?

What?

 

What happened here?

 

You had better believe that if the poll had overwhelming showed people liked the 60 minute debuff, Roland would be snipping and /TLDRing that straight to the TFP staff.

 

He probably already did with the 30 minute figure, which I call shenanigans on for the aforementioned reasons. I welcome the critiquing from Exx, but I believe Roland is playing fast and loose with this vote. It wouldn't surprise me if it was solicited by TFP for exactly the reason he stated, which was to see how many folks hate it enough to quit.

[Roland]

I've re-read your earlier statement. Pasted it above in green.

 

I stand by my accusation.

 

Thanks for the proof you were misquoting me.

 

What you were interested in was determining who hates it enough to quit.

 

Yes. I agree that was what I was looking at. There are only two categories that mention quitting and then there is other. None of the Other explanations that I read said they would quit the game. If I stated plainly that that was specifically what I was looking at and then said that it is the smallest group then what's your problem?

 

Not simply what the playerbase thinks the value should be.

 

Well....yes. I didn't purport to be making a statement about this. I don't think the poll is exactly clear on what the playerbase thinks the value should be. That number seems to vary wildly from 0 - 60 minutes.

 

When you say that the 30 minute compromise is acceptable to MOST people, you are putting your own spin on this poll.

 

Yes I am. I'm making an analysis but it probably isn't what you think. My thought process was that if TFP still had the penalty at the 60min mark with no stated willingness to lower it we probably would have had many many more voting in the two quitting categories. THAT is what I was commenting on--that because they softened it they turned away a lot of the anger that we saw during the first week. And once again, I was not just looking at what percentage of the player base like or dislike it period. I'm interested in how many dislike it enough to quit. That is the context I stated and that is the context that I posted within.

 

The next poll option down states no longer than 15 minutes. Not 15 minutes is best. So that response category should be counted as is inclusive of the categories below 15 minutes, which are setup in such a way to guage the level of dissatisfaction. You kinda beefed the way you setup these options to support your statement.

 

I think if the poll was unfairly beefing things one way you would have stated it far sooner than now. In fact nobody has accused the poll itself of being slanted a particular way. I certainly wasn't trying to do that. I really do want to know the actual results and I don't feel threatened in the least by the results. TFP will either keep the penalty as is because that's what they want or they will change it because they decide something else is better. My own interest has always been to see how many feel strongly enough about this to quit. Answer: not very many.

 

How many will moan about it but continue to play and adapt or mod it to their liking? That is probably the "most" category. I don't like the level gates but I'm not going to quit because of them. I'll adapt and will possibly try a modlet that removes them so I can make a bike during the first week if I want.

 

It is accurate to say 46% of players think it should be 15 minutes or less. (~ half of all voters)

 

It is accurate to say 67% of players think it should be something other 30 minutes. (~2/3rds of all voters)

 

It is fair to say only 12% of players think it should be more than 30 minutes, which is the what was originally released. (one in 8 players)

 

It is fair to say 9% of players want a different set of rules. (~ one in 10 players)

 

That's fine. I'm good with those numbers. But the players they represent are not likely to quit the game over it. They'll mod or adapt just like people do with the food bars and water bars.

 

It is not accurate to say that 30 minutes is acceptable to most players. Only 1 in 3 players advocates for 30 minute death timer.

 

I thought you were a math whiz?

 

30 minutes is acceptable enough to most players that they won't outright quit. Instead they'll adapt or mod. This just my interpretation and doesn't reflect TFP.

[Krougal]

One could ALSO say that people who think 60 min death penalty was a great idea, didn't know to come to the forums to vote.

 

We forum vultures are a small percentage of the game ownership. We are also more likely to be passionate and outspoken personalities as those types of people generally migrate towards places they can express said passion. Who knows what the casual gamer thinks.

 

My wife definitely falls into the casual gamer category and she hasn't said boo about the new death penalty. I couldn't tell you if she likes it or hates it. Maybe I should have her come and vote, of course she'd have to create an account first lol.

 

Point is this poll really means squat. TFP is making a game they like, we either like it too or we do something about it. Quitting is technically doing something. I like the 60 min, can live with 30 min, will mod higher it if they put it at 15 min.

 

Yeah, face it, casuals don't come to forums. They barely have enough time to play. Hell I don't like to come to forums unless I've got nothing to do or I really need to get/give info, otherwise I'd be playing.

 

Bottom line is always they are going to make the game they want, and at least 1 thing about TFP they at least play their own damn game (nothing like watching devs who their game is just a job to them try to play their own game and fail miserably). I mean hell I've gotten a lot of good playtips from Joel and Gazz over the years.

 

That being said doesn't mean they are completely close-minded or think they are infallible or inflexible, so yes, our opinions still matter, just not as much as most of us like to think, but then isn't that always the case....

 

Also sometimes we do need to be forced to try things, I wasn't a fan of the level gates, wasn't going to waste time crying about it, was going to mod them out...once stable...but y'know what, after playing a bit this way, I don't think they are so bad. You adjust, and what good is it to rush right to gyrocopter when you can't build or fuel it and you should probably be out looking for food anyway.

[Poojam]

Yeah, face it, casuals don't come to forums. They barely have enough time to play. Hell I don't like to come to forums unless I've got nothing to do or I really need to get/give info, otherwise I'd be playing.

 

Bottom line is always they are going to make the game they want, and at least 1 thing about TFP they at least play their own damn game (nothing like watching devs who their game is just a job to them try to play their own game and fail miserably). I mean hell I've gotten a lot of good playtips from Joel and Gazz over the years.

 

That being said doesn't mean they are completely close-minded or think they are infallible or inflexible, so yes, our opinions still matter, just not as much as most of us like to think, but then isn't that always the case....

 

If you think Joel plays the game a lot, you are sorely mistaken. Gazz probably, but I think he was an addict like most of us before he started working for TFP.

[Reth]

It's not something subjective, it is as objective as math. Besides the inventory loss which was very circumstantial, there wasn't really a penalty.

 

-The purpose of wellness was making you harder to die (stamina was never a problem), but death itself was actually beneficial resetting your status from negative debuffs.

 

-If you wanted to stay alive (with which wellness did help) and cared about wellness to get stronger hordes for better loot, you have to ask yourself what is the point of better loot? Is it not to make your survival easier AKA avoid death?

 

-Losing wellness made it a little harder to avoid death, a beneficial thing.

 

I hope you can see that the system did not compute.

 

That's just the thing. Any penalty is *highly* subjective. Extreme example: if you are about to die from an incurable illness you may not even care about RL death penalty. Incarceration may be a tough punishment for normal people, but there are those who could care less.

 

Due to my play style I didn't *need* any additional penalties to avoid the exploits Gazz was talking about. I avoided it because of the reasons I mentioned. Period. They were more than enough for me. You may or may not have the same reasons, which is fine. TFP decided to punish my playstyle for something somebody else allegedly did. And worst of all - with extra boredom, like there isn't enough of that already.

 

How widespread were those exploits? I've seen numerous videos by Z-Nation FFS - one of my favorite streamers - and I don't believe he did anything of sorts either. I've seen many other streams and I don't recall people saying 'damn, I broke my leg, let's die real quick'.

 

This whole "let's punish the majority for something the minority did" approach is getting old.

[LuckyStar]

You had better believe that if the poll had overwhelming showed people liked the 60 minute debuff, Roland would be snipping and /TLDRing that straight to the TFP staff.

 

He probably already did with the 30 minute figure, which I call shenanigans on for the aforementioned reasons. I welcome the critiquing from Exx, but I believe Roland is playing fast and loose with this vote. It wouldn't surprise me if it was solicited by TFP for exactly the reason he stated, which was to see how many folks hate it enough to quit.

 

Isn't that called market research.

 

[Poojam]

This whole "let's punish the majority for something the minority did" approach is getting old.

 

Agreed. I'd rather they spent that time rewriting the death penalty towards putting in bandits.

[Reth]

You had better believe that if the poll had overwhelming showed people liked the 60 minute debuff, Roland would be snipping and /TLDRing that straight to the TFP staff.

 

He probably already did with the 30 minute figure, which I call shenanigans on for the aforementioned reasons. I welcome the critiquing from Exx, but I believe Roland is playing fast and loose with this vote. It wouldn't surprise me if it was solicited by TFP for exactly the reason he stated, which was to see how many folks hate it enough to quit.

 

I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. He knows real well that the vast majority of the people taking this poll will either a) accept it if they like it or b) mod it if they don't.

 

I'm only voicing my opinion to potentially reduce the number of things I have to mod to start enjoying this game again.

[OzHawkeye]

Agreed. I'd rather they spent that time rewriting the death penalty towards putting in bandits.

 

And I'd rather bandits than an even more watered down death penalty.

 

Hence the forum poll, and which ever side gets the most votes wins. Democracy in action, I say. :-)

[zombie4hire]

I play dead is dead, so probably no matter to me. If I try to play after death then I want to be able to choose no penalty. Dying is enough already.

[RestInPieces]

Due to my play style I didn't *need* any additional penalties to avoid the exploits Gazz was talking about. I avoided it because of the reasons I mentioned. Period. They were more than enough for me. You may or may not have the same reasons, which is fine. TFP decided to punish my playstyle for something somebody else allegedly did. And worst of all - with extra boredom, like there isn't enough of that already.

 

How widespread were those exploits? I've seen numerous videos by Z-Nation FFS - one of my favorite streamers - and I don't believe he did anything of sorts either. I've seen many other streams and I don't recall people saying 'damn, I broke my leg, let's die real quick'.

 

This whole "let's punish the majority for something the minority did" approach is getting old.

 

Damn it, now you make me quote myself again and Lucky will post another gif to make fun of me

 

The faster everyone understands that the game-imposed rules create gameplay and that "playing the way you enjoy" shouldn't be done using self-imposed rules that contradict those imposed by the game or the intended gameflow, the more substance will the conversations in this forum have.

 

But ignoring an exploit in a core mechanic is not a "playstyle", it is just a choice and not even a playstyle choice, but a meta choice. And you made the choice to do so - but that doesn't change the fact that it is still there. If any each of us had a unique "playstyle", as you call it, and the devs designed the game so that we chose what mechanic/rule to not exploit/use/ignore etc, we wouldn't really have a survival/TD/building/crafting game.

 

Do not confuse playstyle freedom with bad design/abstract rules and mechanics. Playstyle freedom is having ways to play differently under the mechanics/rules etc that the game offers, nothing more, nothing less.

 

These exploits were used by everyone I know or met in MP. No surprise there. It's just that some used them more than others. Only in PvP servers most players would care more about wellness because dying and dropping your items for other people to steal was a consequence. I'd agree if you are talking about PvP. A streamer is unlikely to do it for obvious reasons - streamers offer a show and a show with trivialized gameplay isn't much of a show.

 

And for your last sentence it's more like:

"Let's create more interesting gameplay for both the majority and the minority, even if the minority disagrees". A statement backed up by real numbers.

[Jamey]

Question: How exactly is the death penalty supposed to improve gameplay?

 

My experience goes like this: I died. My character was effectively reset to level 1 as every attribute was reduced to 1 with a duration of 1 hour (aka a full day/night cycle, though that is now cut in half). That eliminated my extra inventory space, my newly gained crafting skills, and my extra stamina (among other things).

 

I stopped playing and have not played again since the new experimental came out because I didn’t want to deal with starting over again.

 

 

From my point of view, the death penalty appears to designed to tell to me that I should just stop playing the game for half an hour after death. I cannot go get my backpack without being massively encumbered. I cannot stay at home and craft because my crafting skills have been taken away.

 

This is an incredibly frustrating way to penalize death.

 

This is why I want the option to easily remove this annoying penalty from the game.

[RestInPieces]

From my point of view, the death penalty appears to designed to tell to me that I should just stop playing the game for half an hour after death. I cannot go get my backpack without being massively encumbered. I cannot stay at home and craft because my crafting skills have been taken away.

 

I agree encumbrance with death is problematic. Even if I was always asking for an encumbrance system, they should make one that doesn't make the player open his inventory to see how many slots he has left etc and doesn't make you re-arrange the inventory when dying, turning the lost slots into "take only" slots.

[OzHawkeye]

This is why I want the option to easily remove this annoying penalty from the game.

 

Ok, well, I'm going to labour the point here, but YOU DO have an option to EASILY remove the death penalty from the game.

 

Now, maybe the Pimps will put an In-game Options menu option for it, but even without that, you could edit one text file and reduce the penalty to 1 second in about 5 keystrokes.

 

I don't believe that can escape the adjective "easy" in any way. I'm happy to show you how to do it too, if you like.

[Rockspider]

Death penalty is a pointless exercise in my mind. To me your dead and start a new or you re-spawn and carry on and go and try collect your stuff.

[Rockspider]

Question: How exactly is the death penalty supposed to improve gameplay?

 

My experience goes like this: I died. My character was effectively reset to level 1 as every attribute was reduced to 1 with a duration of 1 hour (aka a full day/night cycle, though that is now cut in half). That eliminated my extra inventory space, my newly gained crafting skills, and my extra stamina (among other things).

 

I stopped playing and have not played again since the new experimental came out because I didn’t want to deal with starting over again.

 

 

From my point of view, the death penalty appears to designed to tell to me that I should just stop playing the game for half an hour after death. I cannot go get my backpack without being massively encumbered. I cannot stay at home and craft because my crafting skills have been taken away.

 

This is an incredibly frustrating way to penalize death.

 

This is why I want the option to easily remove this annoying penalty from the game.

 

I agree with you.

 

Easiest way to by pass it In game while playing single player. Enable cheats in main start menu, Then in game press F1 type "dm" enter then any time you wish to reset press "q" for god mode then "q" again to disable sorted

[Roland]

You had better believe that if the poll had overwhelming showed people liked the 60 minute debuff, Roland would be snipping and /TLDRing that straight to the TFP staff.

 

He probably already did with the 30 minute figure, which I call shenanigans on for the aforementioned reasons. I welcome the critiquing from Exx, but I believe Roland is playing fast and loose with this vote. It wouldn't surprise me if it was solicited by TFP for exactly the reason he stated, which was to see how many folks hate it enough to quit.

 

lol...nah.. These polls are just to spur conversation and let this community see how this community feels about different issues. This poll was never going to drive development. I've never sent one of our polls over to the devs. As you say, they are flawed and nonrepresentative of the whole player base. TFP wouldn't make decisions off of it either way. It was forum members asking me for this poll-- not TFP. You've said it yourself many times, if Joel likes it then it's in and if Joel doesn't like it it's out. Your best bet is that as he continues to play he decides that the buff is horrible and the most he can take of it is 10 minutes or he removes it completely. So far-- he still likes it.

 

Tell you what PooJam...how about you design a poll about the new perk system and level gates. See if you can come up with as fair a poll as possible despite your own bias and post the questions in this thread. I'll take them and create the next poll on the next issue. Then there will be no question in your mind that it is some shell game by TFP or me or anyone remotely friendly to said parties.

[rykon1459918]

I would just love a simple slider put into the pre-game menu like other features such as day length, air drops etc.

 

You want the 60 minute debuff, have it, 30 minutes no issue, 10 minutes sure, don't want it at all turn the slider to 0 minutes.

 

That way everyone can play the game they want, the hardcore players still get the massive drawback of dying and the casuals like myself can either turn it off or leave it low.

 

My issue is I have with the current death system is I play with friends once a week for 3 hours (we are all over 30 have families and commitments), making one of the players feel useless for 1/3 of our total weekly game-time, just because they accidentally feel onto a spike trap or got swarmed by wolves feels really horrible.

It encourages us as a group to either mod it out or as some players have suggested just move on to another game we can play as a group that more casual friendly.

[Poojam]

lol...nah.. These polls are just to spur conversation and let this community see how this community feels about different issues. This poll was never going to drive development. I've never sent one of our polls over to the devs. As you say, they are flawed and nonrepresentative of the whole player base. TFP wouldn't make decisions off of it either way. It was forum members asking me for this poll-- not TFP. You've said it yourself many times, if Joel likes it then it's in and if Joel doesn't like it it's out. Your best bet is that as he continues to play he decides that the buff is horrible and the most he can take of it is 10 minutes or he removes it completely. So far-- he still likes it.

 

Tell you what PooJam...how about you design a poll about the new perk system and level gates. See if you can come up with as fair a poll as possible despite your own bias and post the questions in this thread. I'll take them and create the next poll on the next issue. Then there will be no question in your mind that it is some shell game by TFP or me or anyone remotely friendly to said parties.

 

If the people that matter don't care, then neither do I.

[joeevaristo]

Disincentivize death as a means to instantly clear any annoying debuffs like broken legs or infection or to use death as a quick teleport.

 

Given the obnoxious comments that come later, I hope this doesn't sound too snarky, but... wouldn't the obvious solution be to retain debuffs after death and add the risk of acquiring disease after dying to discourage teleportation?

 

 

Honestly there are alot of settings that should be in the options when you start/continue a new game that aren't for some odd reason, death penalty being one in a17, Drop nothing on death being another option in the drop on death setting thats missing. I'd also like a option to mute my player chars voices, those grunts when using power attacks and when hitting below half stam running really grate on my nerves. I don't wanna remove them entirely as the power attack sounds are there to make it so the zombies have a chance to hear you, I just wish there was a player sound effect slider that lets me turn it down.

 

Yeah, I think the list of options in the UI is a bit sparse. I probably wouldn't add a lot to that list--it wouldn't take too many to be overwhelming--but I generally agree with your list.

[Jamey]

Ok, well, I'm going to labour the point here, but YOU DO have an option to EASILY remove the death penalty from the game.

 

Now, maybe the Pimps will put an In-game Options menu option for it, but even without that, you could edit one text file and reduce the penalty to 1 second in about 5 keystrokes.

 

I don't believe that can escape the adjective "easy" in any way. I'm happy to show you how to do it too, if you like.

Once again, modding has been a pain in the ass when we have tried to do it with our group game. I want an option to remove this lousy penalty when setting up the game, much like I set day length.

 

Alternately, TFP could try implementing a death penalty that doesn’t totally ruin the gameplay experience. Most games have a death penalty like XP debt or a resource cost for a reason - because punishing your players by making their character unable to do most fun or useful activities for 30 minutes is just about the worst possible gameplay that you can have as a death penalty.

[Guppycur]

People running dedicated servers are already editing an xml to set it up... what's one more? Also, there are two or three modlets already made, what's hard about dropping one into a mods folder and never looking back?

[dishmal]

I'm worried about PvP, if someone kills you in PvP, the penalty means you likely can't even try to strike back to get your stuff back. I would remove the penalty if you are killed by another player and only have it for being killed by zombies or falls, etc.

[Royal Deluxe]

I'm worried about PvP, if someone kills you in PvP, the penalty means you likely can't even try to strike back to get your stuff back. ...

 

Perfect !

 

If i shoot a player, i shoot him.

I completly dislike it when people respawn in PVP.

(This ability is the reason for so much senseless kill on sight)